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Ontariotech
22nd Apr 2005, 18:21
If anybody has not already seen the video of the chopper crash in Iraq and the execution of the crewmember....don't. I feel ashamed that curiosity got the best of me, but I wish it had not. I am quite shook up and upset. I have seen my fair share of death as a police officer, but usually, I deal with the aftermath, and I am trained to deal with car accidents, murders and accidental deaths. As far as I am concerned, certain parts of that country contain animals. I would put the crap that comes out of my dogs arse on a higher plateau than some of these people currently in Iraq.....and around the world for that matter.

I just really don't know what else to say. Aside from the above, I am completely :mad: speechless.

Jerricho
22nd Apr 2005, 18:41
I know how you feel there Ontario. My morbid fascination got the better of me last year when that Nick Berg video was doing the rounds. Real or not, the image was someting I couldn't get out of my head for ages.

The world now is a very small place, with very few dark corners.

airship
22nd Apr 2005, 21:05
Like you both, morbid curiosity got the better of me and I watched the video of the Nepalese executions last year (I'm part Nepalese). I have sometimes asked myself the question of whether I myself could ever commit what are very horrific acts. The honest answer is probably yes. In revenge, for I know not what. There are obviously people out there for whom committing such atrocities are a pleasure. But I would be surprised if they were anymore than a small minority. The question I would ask of the others is, "What have you endured that was so horrible that allows you to commit these acts, to forget all concept of humanity?" But I'm not so sure that I want to hear the replies...

dmanton300
22nd Apr 2005, 22:14
I really think we should steer away from giving this kind of act some kind of legitimacy by using the term "execution". Let's stick to calling it murder eh?

Allahu Akbar indeed. . . .

Buster Hyman
22nd Apr 2005, 23:25
Considering the simulated violence, murders & executions that you see on the idiot box these days, its a wonder that you could ever be affected by such acts anymore.

I saw it on the news before I realised what it was but they thankfully stopped the footage as he raised his hand. They didn't stop the sound though.

Perhaps, one day, reason will prevail & footage like this will justifiably put an end to such cowardly atrocities.:(

tony draper
22nd Apr 2005, 23:39
I watched it on ABC as Mr Hyman they showed it up to the point of the man raising his hands, the BBC news later on just showed the burning helicopter and did not mention any surviver or what happened to him,they said the helicopter had been shot down by insurgents,being the BBC I am supprised they didn't call them freedom fighters.

XXTSGR
23rd Apr 2005, 06:02
I really think we should steer away from giving this kind of act some kind of legitimacy by using the term "execution". Let's stick to calling it murder eh?

Allahu Akbar indeed. . . .Now, the first paragraph I could agree with completely. But with your final comment you cut yourself off at the knees and discredit everything that had gone before by implying that the religion and all their co-religionists are at fault.

Want to retract?

Pilgrim101
23rd Apr 2005, 09:17
XX

Why should he retract ? Do these primitives not invoke the name of Allah before every ritual murder of yet another hapless innocent ?

Noteworthy that their adversaries are invariably unarmed non combatants, or in this case a wounded unarmed victim of "God's chosen work", a heinous phrase to utter before murdering an unarmed and defenceless prisoner.

I also note with dismay the earlier post which wondered what the murderers "had endured" to make them behave in such a bestial manner. Well, I hate to tell you, they enjoy it ! F:mad: k

If they "endured" anything, it was years of religious zealotry and brainwashing to regard even their own lives as worthless. Just watch Al Jazeera if you can and "endure" the mindless pap and almost pornograhic presentation of a man's murder. They won't show tits but religious ritual throat slitting is normal to them apparently.

dmanton300
23rd Apr 2005, 15:08
Now, the first paragraph I could agree with completely. But with your final comment you cut yourself off at the knees and discredit everything that had gone before by implying that the religion and all their co-religionists are at fault.

In actual fact I was merely quoting what the gunman could be heard saying again and again in the seconds leading up to his murdering this individual. So no, I don't want to retract. I was using the term in reference to this one cowardly individual, not as a slight on Islam in the wider sense, which I know to be, in it's true form, a religion of peace and mercy. I'm sure the prophet (PBUH) would shudder at every usage of this phrase in relation to heinous acts like this.

maxalt
23rd Apr 2005, 15:13
Like you both, morbid curiosity got the better of me and I watched the video of the Nepalese executions last year (I'm part Nepalese). I have sometimes asked myself the question of whether I myself could ever commit what are very horrific acts. The honest answer is probably yes. In revenge, for I know not what. There are obviously people out there for whom committing such atrocities are a pleasure. But I would be surprised if they were anymore than a small minority. The question I would ask of the others is, "What have you endured that was so horrible that allows you to commit these acts, to forget all concept of humanity?" But I'm not so sure that I want to hear the replies...

Airship if you watched those executions and feel that way about it I can only assume its your buddhist nature that allows you to forgive it. That or perhaps....???

Anyhow, whatever your truth, don't try to rationalise or understand cold blooded murder, its sick enough already, and trying to 'feel the hurt' of the perpetrators is next to condoning it...and there are too many muslims who make that stretch.

Paterbrat
23rd Apr 2005, 18:06
Although Islam may well be a religion of peace and mercy it has been my experience over a number of years that many adherants are inflexible and remarkably intolerant of other religions sometimes to quite a violent extreme.

XXTSGR
23rd Apr 2005, 18:23
dmanton, thanks for clearing that up. I appreciate it. A stunning difference between your attitude and the blinkered, pig-ignorant prejudice of Pilgrim's post. But then, we don't expect much better from him.

Paterbrat, try removing the mote from your own eye first. Everything you say about Islam is equally true of Christianity. The fault is not the religion, the fault is not Muslims. The fault lies with some twisted individuals who misuse the religion to mislead the not so intelligent. A muslim is not automatically suspect because he is a muslim. The religion is one of peace, mercy, tolerance and total submission to the will of Allah. I know you'd like to have it otherwise, but you can only do so by lying.

Onan the Clumsy
23rd Apr 2005, 19:45
They won't show tits but religious ritual throat slitting is normal to them apparently. So it's just like American TV then?

Janet Jackson = no

pick any cop show and watch the bodies fall = yes

Astrodome
23rd Apr 2005, 21:42
Human rights activists have expressed their anger over the killing of a man in the North West Frontier Province by villagers on alleged charges of blasphemy after extremist clerics issued a decree declaring him an "infidel".


Around 400-500 villagers pelted stones at the victim, who hid himself in a cave only to be shot dead later, in the remote town of Spin Khak in Nowshehra, near the city of Peshawar on Wednesday.

Ashiq Nabi, in his 30's, was a labourer and accused of desecrating Holy Quran after a row with his wife who had brought the Holy Quran to make her husband swear on.

However, the local clerics issued a decree against Nabi for blasphemy that triggered anger amongst the illiterate Pushtoon villagers who then killed the man.

The wife and another relative of the victim lodged a complaint with the police, who reached the spot to arrest him. They found Nabi lying in a pool of blood, sources said.

The clerics refused to offer prayers and attend the funeral. Even his family members did not take the body back for burial as he had been declared an "infidel".

The police are looking for the clerics who issued decree and declared that the man is punishable to death for alleged blasphemy.

The NWFP is ruled by the alliance of the extremist religious parties, the Muttahida Majlis-i-Amal (MMA), which during its rule for over two years has implemented strict Islamic laws in the province seen as increasing extremism in the province.

"It's beyond anybody's imagination that such an incident can happen in the 21st century," says Tariq Khan, a Peshawar-based rights activist. "We fear extremists' rule has further fanned and strengthened such extremist and inhumane behaviour in the name of religion."

Pakistan's controversial blasphemy law has long angered human rights activists, who say it is a tool for persecution of religious minorities, especially Christians, and in settling personal scores. President Musharraf had this law scrapped, but pressure from Islamist parties had forced him to revert his decision.

tony draper
23rd Apr 2005, 22:09
The idea that Islam or any other religion for that matter, is tolerant and mercifull is a vast cosmic joke, Islam is the most belligerant and strident at the moment because its one of the youngest, it was spread by sword and fire in the same way Christianity was, like all other religions it breeds in poverty and ignorance and like all other religions and is about control,not tollerance,mercy or any other fluffy words Trust religion specifically Islam at the moment, about as far as you can throw a lead pig and you will not be far wrong.

Dead_Heading
23rd Apr 2005, 22:17
Don't have much truck with religion, meself. They're fine if they're actually followed correctly, but always nutters use them as an excuse to kill people to get revenge for their oh so small penis. Well, oversimplication of the reasons there, but basically..yeah..

Incidentally, Islam teaches (I beilieve) that the holiest thing you can do is to save another human life, whether it is a muslim or not, and "Jihad" actaully translates as following the Islamic faith...

What you see in Iraq, or with Al-Quaeda has nout to do with religion, they just use it as a convenient excuse to kill people. Religion is just a convenient excuse that organised gangs of killers the world over use as an excuse to kill people."

XXTSGR
23rd Apr 2005, 22:32
Tony, it is clear that you have never read either the Quran, a biography of Muhammed or a history of Islam. Try it, then criticise.

Scrubbed
23rd Apr 2005, 22:36
Yes beef-drapes.... that's about the size of it.

You're much more agreeable when you're doing your lolly on religion or society or other things I agree with.

I think I could get drunk with you.

Astrodome
23rd Apr 2005, 23:07
In which case the deafening silence of condemnation from Muslim countries and 'clerics' ?

Happy to be proved wrong

XXTGSR/Mr Draper The Islamic religion is based upon the evolution of interpretations of the Koran by various sects over the years, many of which were used to gain power but all taking as their basic tenet those religious laws contained in the Koran for use as civil laws.
This has not allowed for the separation of religious law from government law and, by its nature, freedom to follow or not follow the religion is impossible for people living under Islamic governments.
There are also tenets in the Koran that can be easily interpreted to convey to followers that those not willing to convert to the Islamic religion are Infidels and can be eliminated.
Samples of references in the Quran that could possibly be interpreted as advocating the conversion or elimination of Infidels. They follow:

8.12 through 8.17 in "The Accessions" especially 8.17 "So you did not slay them, but it was Allah Who slew them, and you did not smite when you smote (the enemy), but it was Allah Who smote, and that He might confer upon the believers a good gift from Himself; surely Allah is Hearing, Knowing."
9. "The Immunity" virtually the complete Chapter, especially 9.5 "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful"
84.20 through 84.25 in "The Rending Assunder"
69. "The Inevitable" virtually the complete Chapter

WhatsaLizad?
23rd Apr 2005, 23:28
Tony, it is clear that you have never read either the Quran, a biography of Muhammed or a history of Islam. Try it, then criticise.

XXTSGR,

I did a little reading on the subject after thousands of the followers of the faith danced and celebrated after a few slit the throats of my coworkers and burned a few thousand more with the airplanes I flew in the past. I was a little underwhelmed.

Is my information wrong or did Muhammed personally use his sword to wack off the heads of a few POW's after one of the Peaceful Prophets battles. I'll respectfully stand corrected if wrong, but I thought the instance was written in the Koran or was it in one of the Hadiths?

Given the events of the time and the what was claimed as an inaccurate media portrayal, I had intended to get a book on the prophet by the well known Brit female whose name escapes me. I lost interest after seeing her interviewed where she discounted the violent acts of the Prophet as "something that must be taken in context of living in the 7th century".

Well okay, but non-violence seemed to be a key for certain other someone 2000 years ago.


Back to the thread. Horrible for those involved, and for the short lived survivor. Maybe if most in that part of the world cared more for the future of the Iraqis than public and religous desire to see the USA get their nose smacked, we'd start seeing more positive events.

Peace

XXTSGR
24th Apr 2005, 06:19
Astrodome, Whatsalizad:-

Misinformation, misunderstanding, lies, distortion, prejudice, xenophobia...

You can quote a translation of the Quran all you like. I can quote the Bible to similar effect if you like. I can also quote the Quran to opposite effect.

None of that changes the essential nature of Islam. It merely demonstrates that some Muslims have given the faith bad press recently.

Regards, XXTSGR aka Abu Saffiyah.

Pilgrim101
24th Apr 2005, 08:08
XX

""Misinformation, misunderstanding, lies, distortion, prejudice""

Exactly the pap you are peddling. Your warm fuzzy thinking would last about a nanosecond where I spend 80% of my time. The very people you are defending would slit your throat in a heartbeat and think little of it.

You are typical of the chattering classes who shout down any dissent with your Utopian ideals with the usual accusations of racism. I am no racist and I stated nothing but the truth. These murderers would find themselves in Broadmoor in any other realm but the one which permits and even encourages these acts of horrific murder. Sorry to upset your cosy little world there but get used to it.
:mad:

XX

""some Muslims have given the faith bad press recently""

You don\'t say.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Ontariotech
24th Apr 2005, 12:30
Tony, it is clear that you have never read either the Quran, a biography of Muhammed or a history of Islam. Try it, then criticise.

I don't feel I need to read any of that as I am not criticizing Islam. Nor any other religon. What I am upset about is that these pigs, "Claim" to be carrying out gods work when taking a human life.

Whether it be our god, their god, or whosever god it may be, It's not a god I am familier with, nor is it a god, any of you should be aware of. It only leaves a god of evil, a god of destruction and hate.

I believe it is those pigs that need to read the Quran, or a bible, or read a biography on Muhammed or a history of Islam. Because as far as I can tell, they only speak of evil before carrying out those crimes, not of any god or prophet.

Farrell
24th Apr 2005, 12:50
I can see this topic getting the "Closed" tab shortly! ;)

Dave Martin
24th Apr 2005, 13:03
"Noteworthy that their adversaries are invariably unarmed non combatants, or in this case a wounded unarmed victim of "God's chosen work", a heinous phrase to utter before murdering an unarmed and defenceless prisoner."

Not that far different from the Iraqi chap in Fallujah who was pumped full of 5.56 ball by a Marine on TV not so long ago....

"If they "endured" anything, it was years of religious zealotry and brainwashing to regard even their own lives as worthless. Just watch Al Jazeera if you can and "endure" the mindless pap and almost pornograhic presentation of a man's murder. They won't show tits but religious ritual throat slitting is normal to them apparently."

Again, you could swap Al Jazeera for FOX News there mate, all much the same.

Astrodome,
One reason it\'s not condemned is we are seen as invaders there - despite how much our leaders would like us to think otherwise.

I\'m sure not too many Poles, Dutch or Free French shed tears when German soldiers were killed in WWII.

Likewise, indiscriminate killing by US soldiers of civilians at checkpoints is pretty standard. We only hear about it when someone noteable gets killed - be they Italian secret service staff or almost Iyad Allawi. But that, along with iraqi casualty figures seems barely worth a mention in our press.

Hoping
24th Apr 2005, 13:54
Do you mind if I ask about your age and education background? I'm trying to reassure myself that your opinions belong to someone well below the age of 20 from a deprived background.

If not, consider what you said before. You were moaning about a few lebanese guys "sorting out" a russian. You were saying how horrible it was and I agree it probably was terrible. I'm glad we agree on that. However, you then went on to talk about "the bomb", presumably meaning the nuclear bomb. Do you think that nuking a country is less or more barbaric than beating one man to death? Please consider your answer fully and think about the suffering that the immediate, but not permanent, survivors of a nuclear attack go through.

airship
24th Apr 2005, 13:58
maxalt wrote: Airship if you watched those executions and feel that way about it I can only assume its your buddhist nature that allows you to forgive it. That or perhaps....??? Anyhow, whatever your truth, don't try to rationalise or understand cold blooded murder, its sick enough already, and trying to 'feel the hurt' of the perpetrators is next to condoning it...and there are too many muslims who make that stretch. I fail to see where I stated that I forgive or condone these acts. I believe that the correct term to describe to 'feel the hurt' is empathise anyway. Which is something you shouldn't confuse with sympathy. Regardless, I'm not in a position to forgive...

As for the choice of using the term execution instead of murder. The thread title uses execution. I don't think that using execution is incorrect to describe an act that is organised and premeditated. In fact using murder tends to derogate the circumstances. After all, murders are reported in the local news almost every day...

When the Nazis lined up innocent French folk against a wall in reprisal for attacks by the resistance, these were also executions. There was also a very clear message behind these acts. In the context of the executions in Iraq that we're considering in this thread, we aren't dealing with a well-organised military machine in the sense of the Nazis though...

Many years ago, I watched a documentary about the Vietnam war. Apparently, the Vietcong would go into a village they considered had been collaborating with the enemy. They would then cut off the arms of the children, not necessarily killing them. In this documentary, an old Vietcong admitted to have taken part in such operations. He came across as being sincere but his recounting of those events was chilling. It went along the lines of "These were our children. It was a very hard thing to do. But we had to give a very clear message to the enemy. That there was no limit to the efforts we would make to rid ourselves of that enemy. Even at the cost of these barbaric acts against our own kind. We were stronger."

Pilgrim101, I think I know you well enough by now to feel confident that your recent posts are the response of someone who has been in the firing line. You're not like the poster who comes out with The day is coming and when it does...... we have the bomb. :}

You would be first to agree that it's soldiers who fight the wars but they don't decide which wars to fight...?! BTW, apparently that's a good thing. Here's something to console you...

Nothing is over! Nothing! You just don't turn it off! It wasn't my war! You asked me, I didn't ask you! And I did what I had to do to win! But somebody wouldn't let us win! And I come back to the world and I see all those maggots at the airport, protesting me, spitting. Calling me baby killer and all kinds of vile crap! Who are they to protest me? Who are they? Unless they've been me and been there and know what the hell they're yelling about!

In the morass of conflicting reports, propaganda and plain ole good ole patriotism that surrounds all modern wars, I'm merely trying to understand whether there are any basic human truths behind it all. Remembering the old adage which alludes to pointing out that history has a tendency to repeat itself...

Some of you don't like it that I pose certain questions? Well, sticks and stones will break me bones but words don't do me any harm... :p You still want to push it...?!

...I'm coming to get YOU! :(

Pilgrim101
24th Apr 2005, 14:53
Airship

The Bomb never worried me - I had a charcoal suit, overboots, rubber gloves and bomb proof respirator (ever sneezed in one of those things ?) to protect me :} :}

The points you made about poor old grunts and which wars to fight is absolutely true and I figure there's nothing wrong with toppling the Hitlers, Mussolinis, Stalins, Saddams ...... etc etc of this world. Of course I'm not German, Italian, Russian or Iraqi as just a few examples and the sins of current leaders and states are very blurred in todays world ??

Had it not been for those soldiers of all nationalities continually doing their duty (I know some on here think it a dirty word), the world would be an even worse toilet than it is today. :suspect:

As for the exhibition killings, well I guess each observer has to decide if the ritualistic slaughter has a religious motive or not - certainly the psychological warfare aspect of such acts is effective on the streets in the Islamic world but the backlash against Islam is a direct consequence and not a positive one at all !

airship
24th Apr 2005, 15:27
As for the exhibition killings, well I guess each observer has to decide if the ritualistic slaughter has a religious motive or not - certainly the psychological warfare aspect of such acts is effective on the streets in the Islamic world but the backlash against Islam is a direct consequence and not a positive one at all ! I think you've hit the nail on the head Pilgrim101. Describing these acts as exhibition killings starts to make some sense. But what do they demonstrate, if anything, more than mere barbarity and inhumanity? :sad:

Pilgrim101
24th Apr 2005, 15:31
Lack of compassion, and worse, imagination !:(

WhatsaLizad?
24th Apr 2005, 15:44
Astrodome, Whatsalizad:-

Misinformation, misunderstanding, lies, distortion, prejudice, xenophobia...

You can quote a translation of the Quran all you like. I can quote the Bible to similar effect if you like. I can also quote the Quran to opposite effect.

None of that changes the essential nature of Islam. It merely demonstrates that some Muslims have given the faith bad press recently.

Regards, XXTSGR aka Abu Saffiyah. aka Abu Saffiyah.





XXTSGR

I did not quote or distort the Koran out of context. I am merely asking about act by Muhammed that may or may not be in the Koran or the Hadiths. If what I read was taken out of context or may have been inaccurate, please correct me, otherwise, here is my question again;

Is my information wrong or did Muhammed personally use his sword to wack off the heads of a few POW's after one of the Peaceful Prophets battles. I'll respectfully stand corrected if wrong, but I thought the instance was written in the Koran or was it in one of the Hadiths?

Is there a verse or a reference in the Hadiths?

thank you and Peace

XXTSGR
24th Apr 2005, 17:26
It does not appear in the Quran. Whether one of the Hadiths I don't know. If so, I have never heard of it. But to use emotive terms such as "POW's" is to apply the morals and norms of today to a very different age.

However, social justice, equality and a sense of community (ummah) is central to the Quran. Non-violence except when directly threatened is also a central tenet of Islam. All violence was forbidden in Mecca. During the hajj pilgrims were forbidden to carry any arms at all. The concept of the tribe or ummah is very strong indeed in that area - and has been for thousands of years as a survival technique - which resulted in the Prophet being ostracised for decamping with his followers to Medina. The ummah also resulted in the very strong reactions Arabs (and Muslims in general) to interference from the West.

This is part of the violent reaction among many Iraqis to the recent war. I agree entirely that this latest murder, like others before it, is a disgusting act, totally in opposition to all the decrees of Sharia and the Quran. But it was carried out by people twisting the faith to their own political ends.

Either to blame the religion or lump all Muslims in with these animals is therefore the act of ignorant religious prejudice and xenophobia.

Scrubbed
24th Apr 2005, 17:45
The crusades were a long time ago.

Comparing eastern and western religions and their histories is not accurate.

What it comes down to is western religions have progressed with the times and what progress it was: Women ministers, gay priests, divorce, etc.

Then there's the other option, still rooted in the drak ages.ignorant religious prejudice and xenophobia....makes the world go 'round.

Caslance
24th Apr 2005, 18:05
Women ministers, gay priests, divorce, etc.The largest "Western" religion - Roman Catholicism - is against the three of them, Scrubbed. The position of the new Pope on "etc" is, as yet, unknown.

You were saying?

Scrubbed
24th Apr 2005, 18:48
Yeah no kidding.........

I guess I could've included abortion to smack you harder in the face with the irony but it would be a little unsavoury, even for you.......!! :ok:

;)

But the point is, women ministers aren't catholic, right... And divorce is accepted by most(?) of the others? Not being a religious fanatic, I couldn't say for sure.

And gay catholic priests still mince around more and more openly, despite the official standpoint. That and Jerricho's altar-boy syndrome, too.

So what's your point?

The RC church might officially be aginst these practices, as you claim, but when was the last time you saw them issue an edict saying a transgressor shall be buried in the ground to their neck then pummelled with stones until dead. Or put in a sack and thrown from a cliff to his/her death and if the fall doesn't kill him, then hanging will follow. Etc. Etc. Etc.

See....... we move with the times.

And others remain in the Dark Ages.

Dave Martin
24th Apr 2005, 19:13
Scrubbed,

Although officially banned behaviours, you are raising instances of ministers and believers flouting the rules and regulations of the church, as indications of their advancement over Islam. Doesn't this as much indicate failings in Catholicism? Like having state legal regulations but being forced to ignore them just because they are pointless?

I could introduce you to a number of Muslims who live an identical lifestyle to your average non-Muslim, with the exception of course being drinking and eating pork. They don't fall into the typical category of "Islam" that we are presented, but in my opinion probably make up the majority. Unfortunately for Islam perhaps, like Judaism, it's dress and customs are simply very visible. Those who are orthodox believers are visibly so and therefore their religion is more likely to be portreyed by their behaviour than a more secularised member. If you had turned the volume off, on the footage in question, there would have been little to make you believe the killers were Muslim.

Still more, if you actually visited the middle east you would see examples in everday life of very liberal version is Islam flourishing.

Unfortunately it is convenient to paint Islam as a monolithic faith that encompasses all "evil-doers" while turning a blind eye to our own indiscretions. Certainly, there is room for drastic improvement and modernisation in sections of Islam. Those that hold the strings of power seek to prevent this.

Given the general slant to the right which most posters on PPRune have, I'm surprised you aren't singing the praises of thieves having thier hands cut off or the harsh prison sentences applied in places like Saudi Arabia. Living in a Muslim area of London I certainly appreciate the complete lack of alcohol induced "yobbery" that exists outside of our area

Scrubbed
24th Apr 2005, 20:29
Dave......

The fact that you support their system, whilst very civilised of you and others, is simply their strength and our weakness.

One side is spreading to where it is allowed to go in the name of freedom. The other is not to where it is not welcome (in the name of oppression).

We're losing.

Caslance
24th Apr 2005, 20:39
No, Scrubbed.... you're losing. The rest of us are doing just fine. :ok:

Now go and finish your homework. It's a school day tomorrow. :rolleyes:

Mark Smith
24th Apr 2005, 20:58
Why are you telling Scrubbed to finish his homework and he has school tomorrow? Isn't he a pilot?

Scrubbed
24th Apr 2005, 21:01
No dear onan. He's a .... no he's an IT Blunt!!!!

HAHAHAHAHAAAA......!!!!


I can't believe I almost bothered to reply to an IT GEEK!!!!

Are you and Eel mates then Mr. Asslance????

Caslance
24th Apr 2005, 22:07
Alas, I am not on intimate terms with any eels, Scrubber.

I do have a goldfish but that's hardly the same thing, is it?

Scrubbed
24th Apr 2005, 22:09
True.

Oh well... at least you know your name!!!!







Gotchaaaahhh!!!!!

:ok:

Caslance
24th Apr 2005, 22:10
I just assumed that you were a very poor typist, Scrubber. :ok:

Scrubbed
24th Apr 2005, 22:14
That I am. Which is why I have my girlfriend type all my rantings and slangings for me.

I sit back with a beer and supervise and plan my next move. That kind of thing.

Caslance
24th Apr 2005, 22:16
And you would have got away with it too, if it wasn't for those meddling kids and their dog...... :ooh:

Scrubbed
24th Apr 2005, 22:22
Lassie????


Scoobie-doo??

Caslance
24th Apr 2005, 22:26
Ahhh! See - the seeds of doubt begin to take root in the fertile herbaceous border of your mind! :E

Why, Scooby-doo of course. :ok:

Scrubbed
24th Apr 2005, 22:29
Come on.... second guess. Not bad considering it's been a few years.

Pardon the spelling. I think a "scoobie" might be something you smoke. My typist has forfeited her evenings digitising for that slip-up.

Caslance
24th Apr 2005, 22:34
My typist has forfeited her evenings digitising for that slip-up.:ooh: :ooh: :ooh:

Ahem....on that note I'll wish you a fond goodnight.

Fond goodnight, Scrubbed. :zzz:

tobzalp
25th Apr 2005, 00:41
Haha. Pooftersaywhat? ahahaha. Classic.

Omaha
25th Apr 2005, 18:57
I don't know why you lot insist on looking at those freaky movies.

Do you want to give yourselves sleepless nights, troublesome dreams & psychological problems. You really need to control yourself from the voyeristic need to watch such stuff in gory anticipation & allow your more nobler instincts to surface. Allow another fellow human being to die with dignity & privacy rather than intruding on their terror as the last breath is brutally, evily & cruelly extinguished from them. Don't become a participant in this for entertainment or curiosity,....please. :yuk:

Jerricho
25th Apr 2005, 19:20
Oh get off your high horse there Omaha. :rolleyes:

If you read again the first couple of posts, you will see there is a underlying trend of curiosity. It's human nature. I personally love horror/scary movies, both graphic and impled.

Buster did bring up an interesting point. Television/movies etc bring violence into our homes on a daily basis, be it through the news or in Arnie Govenator's latest movie.

allow your more nobler instincts to surface

You would think that with the constant exposure to it, one would become de-sensitised. The fact my curiosity did get the better of me and the images made me feel the revulsion it did has stirred my nobler instincts. It reinforces that stuff like that does go on in our world, and it makes me sick.

Omaha
25th Apr 2005, 19:36
On the contrary I do empathise with the guilt the starter of the thread has over succumbing to watch this movie & admired his admittance in admitting this. I just hoped this thread would die an early death. Haven't we been here before on this forum with some beheading or other, weren't many PPRuNers thoughts on this subject very publicly aired particularly after some geezer thought it would be alright to post the link of the execution on this forum.

Looks like humanity has evolved nought from then. I am as concerned about the effects viewing such stuff may have on the people concerned as the privacy & dignity or whatever is left of it of the poor people who experience such fate. It reminds me of the sickos who peddled videos of the people being washed to their deaths by the tsunamni, believe there was quite a trade in it. Personally I wouldn't like someone getting their kicks & jollies by my suffering (& I've known it to happen) or Gawd forbid execution, would you like them to get off on yours?

Paterbrat
25th Apr 2005, 20:10
XXTSGR we have differed on points in the past however I have not normaly been told by you I am lying. I take exception to that and to the fact that you appear to have been an appologist for the action only belatedly appearing to feel the act might have been innapropriate.

To refresh your mind. I said.

'Although Islam may well be a religion of peace and mercy it has been my experience over a number of years that many adherants are inflexible and remarkably intolerant of other religions sometimes to quite a violent extreme.'

You said.

'Paterbrat, try removing the mote from your own eye first....I know you'd like to have it otherwise, but you can only do so by lying.'

I have paraphrased your submission to try and keep this short rather than to simply paint you as the bad guy or to mis-quote you. Please do me the courtesy of pointing out to me where I have lied. In 27 years of living in Saudi Arabia I have not only family but many many Muslim friends. I seek to do them no insult or disservice by my statement. I can say that I was required to and did supress my religion my views on religion. I was unable to go to church, no church was allowed. To show any adherance to Chritianity was forbidden.
I see no such reciprocal suppression on the Muslim faith in this country. Muslims are allowed to practice freely. Please could you explain then the freedom and tolerance demonstrated in the two examples. And please could you point out to me where I have lied.
Our differences have to date to my mind remained reaonably polite, however I have felt that to be called a liar by you and your smart arse comments indicates a telegraph pole in your own eye if you don't mind my bringing it to your attention. I am sure it can't be comfortabel

airship
25th Apr 2005, 20:47
Omaha, you're entitled to your opinion. And don't let anyone tell you any different :suspect:

I don't feel guilty. Nor do I consider myself a sicko. And no, I don't believe that watching something like that automatically makes me a candidate to commit similar atrocities in the future. Nor do I think that my viewing of the video is going to make those responsible commit any more, or any fewer atrocities.

Or would you prefer that there were no images to remind us of the horrors that men will inflict on other men? Like at Dashau or Buchenwald? That would suit quite a few people. What about the thousands, no, millions of times similar atrocities have been commited on a smaller scale throughout modern times? Privacy and dignity of those who've hopefully moved onto a better place?! Oh please! I think I'd prefer it if everyone out of diapers was made to view difficult images. That way we might grow up with a more realistic attitude to what life is really like in the next valley.

You know how these things start don't you? Probably someone who can't control herself spouts off about being in a room with sickos who should get a life. Then maybe one of the sickos suggests that if she's a little more civil, he won't have to explain the correct way to wipe one's botty. Of course, it could end there. Well...am I right, or am I right?! :rolleyes:

PS. Thanks to all those unwatchable tsunami videos, millions of sickos around the planet now know what to do if they see the tide go out rapidly and perhaps where not to seek shelter. Far more so than any number of equivalent "What to do in the case of a nuclear attack..." videos. We've also been reminded that nature reserves a few surprises even for us modern beings, accustomed to commenting from the comfort of our armchairs... :(

Pilgrim101
25th Apr 2005, 22:31
Airship

Too true ! The West in particular has become innured to sanitised, well presented violence and the shock of the true horror of disasters/beheadings etc can be noteworthy - for a while. Then we move on to the sports pages.

One after effect of my return to civilisation was a heartfelt but deeply suppressed desire to slap certain people around the head and explain what really happens out "there". It soon waned when I realised the reality didn't fit their pre conceived profile and I'd be wasting my breath.

There's a bit of the Roman Coliseum crowd in all of us though I suppose, living vicariously in an otherwise plastic wrapped world.

:suspect:

XXTSGR
26th Apr 2005, 02:16
Paterbrat, if you seek to lump together all Muslims in a single homegeneous entity and imply that thereby that they are all intolerant and inflexible, then you are lying. Simple as that.

If you would also clarify whether your experience of Muslims is limited to, say, Muslims in Saudi alone or the entire Middle East or, perhaps further afield to include Indonesia, Pakistan and the USA, I would be grateful. Please also confirm whether or not you consider Christian Arabs to be more or less intolerant that Muslim Arabs.

If, however, you wish to state that some people are inflexible and intolerant, then I will gladly agree with you.

I hope this clarifies things in your mind.

Best regards, Abu Saffiyah

Paterbrat
26th Apr 2005, 12:49
XXX etc "that many adherants " does not mean "all" or perhaps that telegraph pole in your eye is impeding your vision somewhat, do hope you passed your last flight physical? If your flight crew that is?

My experiences of Muslims does include those in Kuwait, Bahrain, UAE, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Morrocco, Algeria, Nigeria, Sudan, Uganda. Indonesia, Pakistan, Tanzania, Kenya, who do indeed vary enormously in their tolerance along with that of ever other religion, sort of a human thing I believe.
Ahlen ya sidique.

XXTSGR
26th Apr 2005, 21:02
Yes, I'm flight crew (not that in your 1st para, 2nd sentence it should be "you're" rather than "your" - see me after school).

Could you also please make an effort to get my name right?

Yes, I passed my last medical quite comfortably. BP 120/70, Hb I can't remember. Lost 3 kg since my previous medical. As I get older I find I now need to wear glasses for reading, particularly in low light. Thank you for your concern.

And thank you for clarifying that you do not consider intolerance to be a muslim trait.

Shukhran.