Security delays meant 200 missed flights at DUB

[Irish Steve]

More information about the shambles at DUB can be found on the RTE site here (http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0422/airport.html)

In other news the government says that it will be bringing forward plans for the future of Dublin airport "soon".

[Telstar]

I was in the Que for security for 2 hours on Sunday. It was an epic Shambles. There were two Ques with at least a thousand people in each one. It was snaked all around the terminal, back and forth, in front of doorways and passageways so everyone was pushing and shoving to get anywhere.

The Police started stopping people from entering the terminal at one stage for "Health and Safety Reasons". Only people with tickets were allowed in. I was joined by a relative who dropped me out, and we had planned to have something to eat before my flight. So we went down stairs to the arrivals lounge and there were no coppers on the door so we "snuck" in that way.

Heads should roll, but instead we get shrugs and told that there will be no improvement for the forseeable future. Meanwhile the government are seriosuly trying to tell us that they will allow the DAA to run the proposed new terminal aswell! I wouldn't let them run the bloody sweet shop.

Ireland is a small country and a good primary airport is crucial. Dublin can't wait until 2008 for a new Airport, we need it now.

[Flame]

Telstar

A small correction if I may, Firstly the "Police" & "Coppers" as you describe them, are not real "Police" or real "Coppers", they are the "Airport Police"...a security group owned, operated and paid by the Dublin Airport Authority. The national Police in Ireland are called the "Garda" and the airport Police are similar to a private security company

Having said all that, I totally agree with you on the state of Dublin Airport. It amazes me, that the CEO of the Dublin Airport Authority has the brass neck to say that all is not too bad. He should resign or at the very least be fired...who in gods name does he think he is !!!!!

I know, that if most people made a cock up of the size that he has made, and he IS the boss, so the buck stops with him..then they would be in serious trouble in any form of employment

What is unbelievable, is that the DAA want to run whatever terminal is built next at Dublin..!!!

Passengers who missed flights have been told by the DAA, thats its a matter between the passenger and their airlines....are these guys for real.!!

[Telstar]

Flame, Yes I know what the glorified security Gaurds are, I was trying to keep things simple for our international readers.

The Ceo of the airport was on the Radio today saying that he agreed that using the airport could be "A little taxing" . Whatever we might say about MOL he would sort them out. They should be all sacked the bloomin' lot of them.

[Faire d'income]

I think you are being a tad harsh on the DAA. They just inherited the problem from the spectacularly incompetant Aer Rianta.

The current security craze infesting the world is the cause of the weekends problems and you need to look both east and west for the reasons for that.

[Irish Steve]

I think you are being a tad harsh on the DAA.

NO

DAA is basically the Dublin bit of the old Aer Rianta, the only real change was the name, eventually, once all the arguments about job feather bedding and the debts of Cork & Shannon have been resolved, Cork & Shannon will be managed by their own operating companies.

DAA can't hide behind that one, the vast majority of the people that are making the (bad) decisions at DAA are the ones that were making the same (bad) decisions when it was Aer Rianta.

It's basically a smoke and mirrors exercise at the moment, eventually, Cork & Shannon might be able to make decisions on a local basis, at the moment, DAA still carries way too much clout over what happens at ORK & SNN, hence the recent arguments over airbridges for ORK, DAA still had more than enough control over that decision, and nearly made the wrong one yet again.

[Toulouse]

The DAA are effectively more or less the old Aer Rianta, and whether that's the case or not they are all a damn disgrace to Ireland and should be bloody well fired. Sorry for the anger, but I'm FED UP with the INCOMPETENCY of the DAA, Irish Government, and just about anything relating to public infrastructures in Ireland.

[Flame]

Here is a story, that I am assured is totally true. Apparently yesterday AM, an Aer Lingus flight to Parid CDG, had a change of stand at Dublin, the flight was originally scheduled to depart from the "A" pier, then it was changed at short notice to the "B" pier.

An elderly French couple, who had very little english, had difficulty finding out what was going on. When they discovered that they should be at the B area and not the A, they started to make their way across, but when they got to the end of the link building at Dublin, they met an airport security official (ASU) who would not allow them go direct to Pier B (a walk of 5 minutes) and instead made them go past the immigration boxes, into the baggage hall, exit the baggage hall and go upstairs and start queing again for the security check to go to the B area.....guess what, they missed their flight to CDG

The Dublin Airport Authority (DAA) have made no provision for passengers whose gates are changed from A to B to allow them go direct to the B gates. In order to do this passengers must go into the baggage hall, exit into the public area and re-enter the security que and go through the security checks allover again.

On a similar note, the same applies to passengers who need to transfer at Dublin from one flight to another..they must exit and re-enter the security lines..not a problem normally, but a serious issue now with the delays

[Irish Steve]

The Dublin Airport Authority (DAA) have made no provision for passengers whose gates are changed from A to B to allow them go direct to the B gates. In order to do this passengers must go into the baggage hall, exit into the public area and re-enter the security que and go through the security checks allover again.

Correct, because Aer Rianta, and now DAA have chosen not to upgrade the A pier to meet the required standard of separating inbound and outbound passengers.

Pre 9-11 and the subsequent shambolic security upgrades, there were routes to the B & C pier via the airline transfer desks, and it would not be the most difficult job in the world to reinstate that facility by having a scanner on the link from arrivals to departures, but that would require DAA to employ staff to do a job related to aviation rather than fleecing passengers in the "duty sort of" and pub areas that they want everyone to spend their money in.

It would of course be possible to solve the segregation issue very quickly, by taking all inbound passengers to the baggage reclaim by bus, but that would then incur extra charges, and we all know who has the most flights operating from the A pier, don't we! :(

It's another of the frequent shambles that we're all too used to at DUB, and it's not going to change for a long time, DAA are not likely to do anything to Pier A until after the new terminal is open, and even then, changing things to do it right will cause masssive disruption to that area.

[akerosid]

Thanks for this info, Irish Steve. It gets worse!

A few months ago, when I travelled through that Changi of Europe, better known as Dublin Airport, I was connecting with another flight, but nevertheless, I had to go out through arrivals and then upstairs to join the security queue. My bag was checked through. I was connecting from a SNN-DUB Aer Lingus flight, onto a BA Gatwick flight (leaving from Pier C).

Is it still the case the pax must go out and come back up through security; with the security queues as they are now, surely this is madness? Dublin Airport must be unique among major European airports in this respect.

Also, isn't it fair to say that by refusing to interline pax, airlines are adding to the security delays - or is their refusal based solely on the fact that DUB doesn't provide the facility? Aer Arann doesn't interline and Aer Lingus discourages it. I wonder if the government (a) required the introduction of a dedicated interline channel, airside, and (b) required airlines - particularly those benefiting from PSO contracts - to interline, it might help the overall security situation, at least by alleviating pressure on the main security checkpoints. It would be interesting to guess how many pax stuck at security were actually connecting?

Thanks in advance for the info.

[Flame]

AeroSkid

All passengers transferring at Dublin MUST go outside into the public area and present themselves at security agian to get their connecting flight

When asked recently during a TV interview, Mr Bob Hilliard of the Dublin Airport Authority, said that if passengers missed their flights due to the lines at security, then it was a matter between them and their airlines to resolve.

So here is a situation that the DAA controls, and then has the cheek to tell everyone else it has nothing all all to do with them

Perhaps he should be called Bob "Pontius pilot" Hilliard

[Flame]

I see that the DAA have announced that they have an additional 60 staff working at the screening friskem machines at Dublin Airport to reduce que's.

Now, what I want to know is...how are the extra staff going to reduce the lines when there has not been an increased in the amount of machines that are in place. Neither has there been an increase in the security area, and when you consider that the 60 extra have to be divided down into shifts, and I assume there are 4 shifts..that means only 15 extra people working at a time

If that is not window dressing I do not know what is

Why has the top man in the DAA STILL not offered his resignation..his arrogrance is unbelievable

[akerosid]

Thanks for that info, Flame. I thought it was still the case, although I had experienced that 5 mos ago.

I just got the May edition of the OAG flightguide (the pocket sized one) through the post and it contains the minimum connecting times for European airports.

Want to know what DUB is, regardless of whether it's from domestic to international or between two intl' flights?

90 minutes? An hour perhaps.

No ... 45minutes.

Try that at 10am on a Saturday morning!

[Telstar]

Now, what I want to know is...how are the extra staff going to reduce the lines when there has not been an increased in the amount of machines that are in place

Its comforting to know that I am not the only one who notices these things,

Neither has there been an increase in the security area, and when you consider that the 60 extra have to be divided down into shifts, and I assume there are 4 shifts..that means only 15 extra people working at a time

Exactly and Exactly Off with their Heads, the whole lot of the Greasy, Back Scratchin, Status Quo Nest Feathering Gits.

(Can you tell I'm still a bit pent up from last Weekends time in the line!:rolleyes: :p )

[Flame]

Telstar

Yes I can tell you are a slight bit miffed..!!!

Having said all that, I see the Union representing the Airport Search Unit (ASU) who man the security area, have said that the problems are only going to get worse

Still the DAA are burying their heads in the sand...I guess they are thinking, if they can bear it out till October, it will go away on its own:\

[asianfly]

:mad: Bertie at his best explaining Irish Aviation Policy. This beats Rumsfeld's "Known Unknowns" comment from last year! Enjoy.

"The Tánaiste (Deputy PM) said what I said last week, which is that when the Government comes to a decision, the Government will announce a decision. Until the Government come to that decision, there is no decision. So nobody should be saying what the decision is. Until we finish it there's no decision."

Surely a classic!

[Irish Steve]

when the Government comes to a decision

Anyone prepared to give decent odds on :-

"We've thought about it, and the final decision is....MAYBE":mad: :mad: :mad:

[Flame]

Do not be at all surprised if the Irish government give the contract to the DAA (Dublin Airport Auth.) to build and operate the new termnal at DUB....even, now that it is out in the open that they do not have the money to build it.!!!!

Sounds to me like a nice way to force the travelling public and the airlines to cough up more money to use the airport via an increase in charges..!!!!

And yet again, I ask...why the CEO of the DAA has still not resigned over the security issues at DUB. He is putting in lots of extra staff, but so far, not one inch more of search space, Surely he is not that naive

[840]

I have to book a flight with a connection from Aer Lingus to Aer Arann at Dublin next week. I have a choice between a 55 minute connection and a 2 1/2 hour wait. I haven't been through Dublin since this new security system was put in place. 55 minutes at Dublin is optimistic at the best of times; is it at all practical at the moment?

[Irish Steve]

I have a choice between a 55 minute connection and a 2 1/2 hour wait.

You didn't say what time of day the connect is at.

The problem is that at the moment, due to a MONUMENTAL screw up by Aer Rianta, which DAA have not yet seen fit to solve, there is no way for an interline passenger to get from the inbound gate to the next gate, and you won't be checked in for the Aer Arran flight, which means (possibly) collecting bags, which can take a while, then going landside, checking in for the Aer Arran, and then getting through security, and that's the problem.

If the bags are through tagged, that can help, but I don't think EI are doing that any more, they used to at one time, but it caused so much hassle with bags missing flights, I think that's been stopped, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

In theory, an hour should be more than enough, but the last couple of weekends have shown that nearer 2 was the norm at certain times of the day.

Supposedly, DAA have an extra 60 staff on security now, but exactly what difference that's made is not clear yet.

While it's a pain, my gut feel tells me to go for the long connect and be relaxed about it, rather than go for the short one, and possibly become stressed and still miss it.

[irishair2001]

Went thru Dublin Airport last Wednesday morning en route to FRA 20 minutes is all it took from getting on the Q which started at the transatlantic check in and zig zagged all the way to the scanning machines,even had to take off my shoes,the security check is nearly the exact same procedure as carried out by the "T S A " stateside,except a little friendlier.

[Irish Steve]

20 minutes is all it took from getting on the Q

Yesterday, there were at least 30 flights delayed by up to 30 minutes, and still passengers were missing flights, as it was again taking up to 90, that's ninety minutes to get through security after check in.

DAA are warning that there will still be problems at "peak" periods, like 0500 to 0700.

Add that to the problems still being experienced at Cork because they still don't have CAT 3 capability, and it's only too clear that Aer Rianta lost the plot. DAA and it's other associated companies need come out of hiding, and admit that the entire operation is at the moment a shambles.