Alcohol tests in AMS

[Falconpilot]

Pass on that NOTAM.

A full crew had to pass an alcohol test while going through security check in AMS (at the crew center).
That happened on a monday morning, early shift, after a full W-E in Amsterdam. The results were negative.
Beware...

[Phoenix_X]

Actually this has been happening regularly for the past three years or so..... And it's caught a few crews out already I must say.

[Capt.KAOS]

Beware... for what??

[Max Angle]

They were tested at the security check point, in public, in front of anyone who happened to be around?. Welcome to the police state of Holland, at least they could have the courtesy to take people aside and do the test in private, what a bunch of w*****s.

Mind you better a breath test than having your bits felt by the over zealous security people they seem to have there now, perhaps if you are really lucky you can have both.

[HotDog]

A full crew had to pass an alcohol test while going through security check in AMS (at the crew center).

.....at the crew centre.....

[Max Angle]

Yeah, at the crew centre where there is often a huge queue of crews and airport staff waiting to go airside and where the security screening area is made of glass and is visible from both sides. Crew centre or not, a test conducted there is in public, not in front of the fare paying public perhaps but public none the less. There could easily have been 20-30 people watching and whilst the test wouldn't involve anything that would be embarrassing I would expect it to be conducted away from the gaze of the rest of the crews and staff using the facility. Not unreasonable I would have thought.

[Sunfish]

Given the incidence of "air rage" One would have thought maybe they should be testing passengers for alcohol?

[Piltdown Man]

According to the chappies (and chapesses) in the Marechausse who do the "trapping", there is a big purge in progress in AMS at the moment. Don't bother arguing with these people, they are very typically Dutch (brusque, inflexible and inconsiderate) and have the law (and guns) on their side. Those who imbibe, beware!

[vunzke]

Funny that when I read thru the posts most responses are worried about "beiing exposed" to colleagues and public rather than about the fact that these checks are aimed at discouraging crews to use alcohol in such a way that it endangers safety of passengers and fellow crewmembers.... If you dont have anything to fear..... who cares that people watch you and as far as I am concerned, anyone that DID use alcohol at a time that it endangers safety (jobwise i mean... ) may be seen by anyone beiing arrested , showing that these things are NOT acceptable....

proost.....
:hmm:

[exvicar]

Unfortunately give someone a little bit of authority & they want to be the 'big I am'. I do not drink & fly, that is thoroughly unproffesional. However prior to a 12 hour trip, I do not think it is condusive to flight safety to be subjected to almost ritual humiliation by being forced to undergo breath testing infront of the passengers. By all means test, but not infront of passengers who may already be extremely nervous about their forthcoming flight. For the most part we are professionals and should still be treated as such. When we get airborne our minds should be on the job at hand, not on how we have been treated as criminals on the way to the gate. The press would have the public believe that we are all alcoholics, that is not the case.

[Pointer]

Max Angle and Exvicar

Read before you put your foot in your mouth..... It was not in public but at the crew center.

It is a clean and honest way off dealing with proffesionals. unbiassed i would think. eventhough i don't like it.

And max angle .... talking about police state.... wasn't it in the UK that a captain got pulled from his aircraft after bogus "alleged" claims from an over zealuos security guard?
I think it has been pondered enough that we dislike the way security measures are applied at the crew level. No need to discuss this any further but i think you should get out a bit more and you might discover it to be far less than perfect at your own doorstep

Pointer :E

[Turn It Off]

The press would have the public believe that we are all alcoholics, that is not the case.

Stage 1 - denial!!

:} :}

[Techman]

Perhaps the true test of who is a professional is who can actually spell is correctly.

[exvicar]

Sorry, after I have had too much to drink spelling is the first thing to go out of the window! Could I sell my story as an exclusive to the papers? Something along the lines of 'Pilot has drink 4 days prior to flight'.

[fmgc]

Now I am not condoning drinking and flying:

discouraging crews to use alcohol in such a way that it endangers safety of passengers and fellow crewmembers

Are we not making a bit of a strom in a teacup here? Why have the authorities got into this big acohol and drug testing thing over the last few years?

How many accidents/near accidents have actually been attributable to the pilot/s being under the influence of alcohol?

[PITA]

I was part of a crew that was tested about 10 min before pushback. The guy's showed up at the jetway and said take this test and then be on your way.
This was about 3 years ago.
It has been going on for a while and ALPA knew and warned us to expect it.

[zed3]

fmgc..... I think it's the old corporate umbrella thing , if anything happens then they as 'managers' are not responsible , Hatfield , etc. etc . At the Maastricht UAC since a few weeks , we now have regular alcohol and drugs tests , seemingly the Dutch Aviation Police told management " If you don't do it then we will come down from Schiphol and test " (seemingly -but I can believe it) , confirming the 'Police State' comment earlier in this thread . Last week a number of people failed the drugs test so it has now been withdrawn , temporarily !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The world is getting evermore petty .

[Flying Torquewrench]

Why has anybody a problem with being tested for alcohol prior to a flight? If it is done in the CREW CENTRE than they give a signal to all the rest of the crew as well. Everybody now knows that there is a chance that you have to go through a alcohol test before they let you go airside.

It is very simple you can have it in two ways.

They can test you in the CREW CENTRE. And if you haven't had a drink than you are allright. (the Dutch way)

Or they come over drag you off the airplane in front of fare paying passengers and than do a alcohol test. (the UK way)

I think the first option is the better one. At least it is not done in front of fare paying passengers and you don't have to do "the walk of shame"through the passenger cabin when the police escorts you of the plane.

It's up to you which way you prefer. And regarding the nervous passengers, it is maybe better for them if they know that crews are being tested for alcohol as well. At this moment they read a lot in the news regarding drunk flight crew so it should calm them down if they know that their crew passed the alcohol test.

Regards, FT

[RoyHudd]

Does Holland perform cannabis testing on flight crew also? The state is one of the world's most permiisive countries towrds purchase, use, and, I guess, abuse of this addictive substance.

And cannabis is proven to be detrimental to performance of precision tasks.

My question has no edge or subtle agenda, I am simply curious.

PS Apologies for typos, end of a long series of flying duties.

[v1r8]

No they don't.

Infact, they encourage you to smoke it before each flight.

V1

[JackOffallTrades]

Pointer and Flying Torquewrench,


The AMS crew center security is in between 2 glass walls/doors. So the public COULD see the crew being tested (and frisked) if they wanted.

Bit like being in a goldfish bowl.

I have been through there several times and the experience is not humane.

Been told to go back and remove items of uniform in front of every one till I no longer set the machine of, by some jobsworth. Being prodded and frisked in public is bad enough without making a breath test public too.

Some code of conduct needs to be enforced.

[Sjakie]

Concerning cannabis-testing: no, there's no on-the-spot cannabis testing.

Off topic now...:

First of all, according the W.H.O., alcohol is considered an addictive drug, whilst cannabis is not.

Mind you, Holland is Europe's number one country with the most relaxed drugs policy, at the same time having the least amount of hard drug addicts, drugs users and related drugs problems.

The harder, stricter and unforgivable the policy concerning (soft) drugs, the easier a government will lose grip on the situation.

Safe, sober flying!








:cool: :cool:

[Falconpilot]

Geee!!!
Came back on my post after a few flights and little rest...And I'm amazed by all the replies.

First and above all, it has to be clear cut that drinking and flying are not going together, and this post had no other purpose than give a warning to what might happen when you go through the security check in AMS.

Secondly, zeeeeee "check" itself was done on first floor security door way, at the crew centre... And when you know the place, you are in view of all the pax behind those glasses.

Thirdly, the crew passed the test succesfully... And that is the most important think. Even after a W-E in AMS, you can still be and act as a real aviation professionnal. What is seen in your replies is that it is still a sensible subject, probably because our journalist friends are very keen on jumping on such an "easy subject". Our pax also are very keen on that matter.

Incredibly enough, in some newspapers, you can read " a Cpt from.@#^% company has been caught drunk while going to his aircraft..."
Manchester, London, Hamburg, Berlin, all airports where alcohol testing are regularly made.

Where is the limit?
When I have a drink with my friends, they sensibly most of the time ask when is my next flight..."12 hours minimum recommended between the bottle and the throttles, 24 hours is what I do" is invariably my answer. And I'm not a heavy drinker.

As a cpt, it is my responsability to have my crew fit to fly, if I see/smell that there is some alcohol involved in one's behaviour, I will gently but fermly advise that person to report in sick for that day. And I will speak to him/her in private. So that nobody else knows. Have a reserve called...First I save my licence, but the person's licence as well, plus a lot of problems avoided. We are all humans, we all do mistakes, as long as we learn from them and correct them.

Have fun and enjoy your flights.

[Pointer]

JackOffAllTrades ;

I know AMS very..very well, and to say that the security is in publicview is a bit exaggerated. eventhough there is a glass door there never seems to be anyone paying attention to it, the passage way to the Pax terminal is narrower anyway. But it is the only place they can do it because of the legal obligation. when still in the crewcenter you might have no "intention" to fly as when you are passing the security area, you have.

In The netherlands there is no drug problem with Cannabis, and yes it is part of the drugscreening to my knowledge. But as it is legal it is about the same attraction level as lets say a pack of sigarets? it just seem to attrack different people.

Pointer :E

[nginear]

Why only are flight crews being tested? Surely if flight crew then all the professions subject to the new laws should be tested. Just having a sober crew does not mean that the engineer working on the aircraft prior to flight is under the limit nor does it necessarily mean that the air traffic controllers controlling the flight is under the limit.
Also regarding this new law I do not think that air traffic engineers are included. Why? The could say screw up the ILS or DME during LVP's. Dangerous.

[Flying Torquewrench]

Jackofalltrades,

Worked four years in AMS passed throught the crew centre every time i went to work so i know how it looks like.

Still don't see the point why everybody is so upset. If you got nothing to hyde thsn you have got bothing to fear. It is as simple as that.

[Nippy]

You can breath test all day long in my book, if you have nothing to hide then no problem- however, nobody should be subjected to a test in public OR in front of colleagues, it should be a private matter conducted in a professional manner!
Now where did I put that stella?
:D

As a cpt, it is my responsability to have my crew fit to fly, if I see/smell that there is some alcohol involved in one\'s behaviour, I will gently but fermly advise that person to report in sick for that day. And I will speak to him/her in private. So that nobody else knows. Have a reserve called...First I save my licence, but the person\'s licence as well, plus a lot of problems avoided.

I,m sorry FalconPilot, but smelling alcohol on someones breath and asking them to call in sick is just burying your head in the sand. It is down right irrisponsible to act in such a way, what happens the next time they are under the influence and the next cpt does not notice? I can read the headlines now "We knew he had a problem but we wanted to save his licence"

Nuff said
;)

[ILS 119.5]

Because the limit is so low I'm all in favour of stopping the crime before it happens. I would certainly advise my f/o to go sick as I am a true believer in teamwork and looking after your own. I do not believe in compromising safety but would rather another company employee does not lose their job through stupidity. Learn by a mistake and do not let it happen again in my view.
As said earlier by "nginear" it is not just the flight crew who need targeting for breath tests.

[Max Angle]

and to say that the security is in publicview is a bit exaggerated. As I said in a previous post it depends on your definition of pubic. I would regard a test conducted in front of the 5-6 security people, all of my crew, and all of the people in the queue plus anyone else who happened to be standing by the glass on either side (and you can bet that in that situation there would be a few) to be conducted in public. I have no problem with being tested as I have, and have always had, nothing to hide but the way the Dutch are doing it is not on.

[flapsforty]

it depends on your definition of pubic

Not sure what that has to do with anything Max angle. ;)

But you're right, they are being rather overzealous at the crew centre these days. Annoying is putting it mildly.
New directives after the recent diamond heist is what's behind. :rolleyes:

Piltdown man, thank you for the compliment.

[dnx]

Just want to put in my 2 bits.
First about the alcohol testing in AMS.
Whats the big deal? They where tested "in public" and they passed the test "in public". At least they could show that they are professionals who take their jobs serious. Why kick and scream about that? You know what is really annoying? To get questioned, interviewed, prodded, hassled and treated like a criminal every time you enter the USA as a flightcrew member.
Secondly about the cannabis.
Contrary what the general public believes it is not legal in the Netherlands. The Dutch have just decided to decriminalize possesion of small quantities of the stuff for personal use. So they won't arrest you if you don't cause anyother disturbances while you smoke your pot and mind your own business.
Whether you agree or disagree (as i do in this matter) with the Dutch, they did manage to keep this aspect or narcotic (ab)use under controle. There are far less drug related diseases and crime in the Netherlands than in other countries with a more restrictive regime.

[vunzke]

well...at least it seems that we all agree that noone should drink and drive/fly/sail/bike/.... whatever with alcohol in its blood....but the problem seems to be the fact people can see you beiing tested.....
Really wonder what the big deal is....if busdrivers get stopped in traffic when theres an alcohol test noone bothers eventhough the pax are already on board and the driver is in the drivers seat.... Lets face it were all busdrivers on a higher level (in some cases busdrivers even seem to make more money than we do)... the times that beiing a pilot was something to brag about are long gone.... (pilots only do average 11 sessions on a sim and get going while the bustraining is somewhat like 20...)...

Alcoholtesting is simply OK since apparently thers still some morons who cant control themselves... so lets just get it over with...pass....smile at the public ....and get on with our jobs.... (air)busdriving.....:ok:

[doglegfinal]

But ehhm, does anyone know what kind of questions they asked the crew on this alcoholtest ? :}

[Buster the Bear]

As a passenger, one hopes all the crew abide by the alcohol hours limitation?

I certainly do not want to be flown, or served by a pi$$ head. I actually value my life!

What is the problem being tested in public? UNLESS YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE?

http://static.zsl.org/images/width150/bear-04-web-305.jpg

[ILS 119.5]

The problem with being tested in view of the public is humiliation. It is not that there is anything to hide but it seems that our profession is now subjected to the new legislation and we are being targeted for safety reasons (nothing wrong with that). However, all professional people deserve some dignity within their jobs. It is not fair to publicy humiliate someone if they are proved positive, and they are not proved positive until the blood test results. It is also not good news for the airline involved and promotes fear amongst the passengers. Pre flight testing is good but not in front of the passengers. Please people do not make our great profession into suspected criminals. The new legislation is good but the more it is highlighted then less people will apply, and we will not get the best people. The whole profession will end up at the bottom of the ladder. At the moment we are all suspected and I'm glad I do not fly into AMS. When I fly back to the UK tomorrow I wonder if they will check me for fatigue. Because I will have to drive more than 100 miles after flyng for more than 9 hours throughout the night & maybe another 2 hours to get to my car. That will work out at about 16/17 hrs with other things. Will I be knackered? Yes! Totally! Could I crash my car on the way home? Yes! Easily! What is the safest form of travel? Aeroplanes. Why? because we are monitered so well but not publicly. What is unsafe? Driving. Why? Because we are not monitered. I spend 9/10 hrs flying with no worries only to have the last 2 hours of my working day being the most dangerous of my life.
Finally, I have to say the limits are right but the implementation is wrong. Maybe it will change, after all, metal knives are back on board. In 10 years we may get back to landing drinks.

[Ignition Override]

1) Buster the Bear: regarding the charade of checking flightcrews in public, having some diplomacy and class (good manners) doesn't cost anything, therefore checking crews in private still allows them to hide nothing, but preserves diginity. At the very end of a Pink Floyd song (Dark Side of the Moon album), someone said "Good manners don't cost nothing".

2) As for the other, sensitive subject regarding checking womens' bodies...my wife and I like Schipol Airport and have flown round trip on KLM from the US at least nine times.

On the last visit in October, my wife was checked TWICE by female security staff, in front of everybody. Once at the main security entrance, then at the gate.

Both times, she was never told that she had the option to do this behind a privacy curtain.

She was rather upset by this the second time within a ten- minute period, and the security vrouw (woman) at the departure gate tried, in a defensive tone of voice, to explain that she was required to do blah, blah, or whatever. Finally, my wife said, ok, ok, just get it over with so we can get on the plane before the gate agents are ready to close the cabin door. This flight was not on KLM, but I wonder if the women staff simply don't want to bother to explain the choices, because it might slow down their jobs.

This was the first time that my wife had ever been very irritated by anything there, and luckily was the first time we had noticed an inconsistent policy of anything at Amsterdam's Schipol Airport. Simply the fact that the women's hands were all over her body in public could embarass any women. I don't tolerate it from a man, whether I'm in uniform at work, or not, and never will :mad: .No fruitc@%e or "regular" guy is allowed to subject me to such petty chicken$h1t in public.

The insulin pump which my wife wears (type 1 diabetic) often triggers the x-ray machine.

[Hangin' on]

The F/O and I having been checked (shoes off etc.) by Atlanta security THREE TIMES between the check in desk and the aircraft AS DEADHEADING CREW frankly my sympathy meter is reading zero...........:mad:

[cavortingcheetah]

:( The last time I was in at AMS, inbound to the UK as a passenger; I was searched at the gate. The security guard took some pleasure in grabbing my belt at the back and pulling it sharply upwards. He knew exactly what he was doing and indeed, grinned as he did it. This caused considerable groinal and groanal discomfort. The searcher, together with the rest of the security guards at the gate, cared neither a whit nor a jot for my discomfort and subsequent complaint. Indeed, they thought my situation very amusing. I found it quite humiliating to be in such a painful state in front of my fellow passengers and, as I am sure you will understand, had to refrain from reorganizing fishing tackle in public until I could hobble to a private place. Next time I pass through AMS and am required to be searched (I have a metal hip which sometimes bleeps the bleeper) I shall ask for a supervisor or a police officer to be present. My bet says that they'll make me miss my flight.
I have absolutely no objection to being searched or breathalyzed, either as operating crew or as a passenger.
I do believe, however, that such actions should be undertaken with consideration, decorum and respect. It seems to me that the Dutch at Schipol are proving themselves incapable of such a basic human nicety of action..:(

[xetroV]

The security guards in AMS really are a mixed bag. Some of them are nice and professional, others are typical @ssholes who utterly enjoy their temporary position of "power". Still not nearly as bad as the security jerks on the other side of the atlantic, though. (I'll never forget the humiliation I went through at MEM, where I was loudly demanded to take off my shoes, belt, jacket, and watch in front of all passengers, and then reprimanded even more loudly when I made the grave mistake to say something in Dutch to my collegue sitting next to me. It seemed like a surrealistic scene from Candid Camera, but it was all too real, unfortunately.)

Last time I saw someone get breathalized at AMS, it was behind the curtain right next to the security checkpoint. (In fact, I have only witnessed someone being breathalized there once, so this is not quite a valid statistical sample. :p) Also there are some nearby corridors which are invisible to the public, so there is plenty of opportunity to demand the checking to take place outside the public view of the security fishbowl.

[cavortingcheetah]

;) I take your points.
I am off to The States next week. I haven't been back since 9/11. Perhaps I am in for a wake up call?
I always have trouble with immigration over there. My ancestors fought against the British in the War of Independence. I always have to remind the Hispanic speaking immigration officer that I have more right to be in the States than he does. Oh dear, that always causes problems. Oh yes, and I remind him in Spanish as well, just to be quite sure he understands. None of them really can in English.
The photographic scenario sounds more like Schindler's List than Candid Camera to me; but I suppose it might jolly them along a bit if they thought they were on TV.:E
Totsiens:cc

[xetroV]

Of course, security staff overseas are probably a mixed bag too. Thankfully not all my entries in the US went like that. ;)

[dnx]

Mine are.
I fly into the USA fairly often. Both as active duty crew member and as a passenger to releive my colleages. Every time I enter the US seems to trigger all sorts of terrorist warnings and I have to answer millions of questions. Also, the rules change every time and differ from place to place.
last time me and my crew were body-searched, (in public), our laptops were dismanteled and we almost missed our connecting flight becayse of this stupidness. And all that while they have all our particulars on computer including our fingerprints, pictures and credit information. Talk about Schindlers list? This does remind me of WW II scenes.

[Ignition Override]

Cavortingcheetah: If that is exactly what happened, then you should have demanded to see his supervisor, told him what happened and if that produced no apology from the offender, then state that you find such rough physical treatment to be "assault". State that the offending agent might need to replace some teeth next time, or fix a broken nose-then go right up to the little (or big) Napoleon and breath on him from about 12 inches, opposite his face, as you hold your clenched fist opposite his nose.

That might be risky, depending on local politics, and will produce some results, but it would require lots of nerve on your part-just hope that a neutral witness will make a statement on your behalf.

I'm sorry to read about so many problems for crewmembers entering the US (find this embarassing), but ask these agents just why they seem to resent or hate all foreign pilots, and hopefully you have already dumped almost every metallic obect into a plastic tray. Tell that you notice how easily US crewmembers get through.

US crewmembers also had lots of problems soon after 9/11. My home crewbase was quite an improvement over the previous personnel and seem to be one of the best. Anyway, many of the problems seemed to mostly be for pilots on one-way deadhead tickets, especially pilots with freight airlines in foreign countries. Some had arrogant personnel turn flight bags upside down and dump everything on the floor .:mad:

[cavortingcheetah]

;) Ignition O/R.

Yes indeedee, in spite of my well known reputation for gentle exaggeration that is exactly what did happen. Damned insolent assault! By Jingo!
I thank you for your advice but I would decline to take all of it on board. The guard in question was, shall I say, a first generation Hollander and very large in a muscular sort of way. The Dutch sense of humour is somewhat mysterious ranging from a sort of Dead Sea dryness to an infantility which boggles the old vacuum pack. In addition to all that, their jails are full of the most atrocious riff raff, with whom I would not really wish to spend a night. I fear that the first attack upon my magnificent person could be as nothing compared to the possibility of an incarcerated intrusion therein. Toodle Pip!
;)

[Pointer]

cavortingcheetah

Not reputing your claim, but may I ask with what your medieval dungeons are filled? a delicately balanced mixture of aristocracy and middle management maybe? Serving live sentences?

I do take your complaint as valid with the footnote that it is a general disease affecting a large portion of the people whom take that job upon them; security guard.

But I have to revolt against the "nationalist" remarks about a people whom you never really got to meet, judging by the shallowness of your insulting remarks.

I think overall the Dutch have a very international attitude towards others, it just so happened that you bumped into the odd rotten apple in the basket, mind you, I have seen many an example in your ,laced with brilliant humour, country.

If you have been so dreadfully treated you should have asked for a Military police officer called "marchaussee" and file a complaint, that's what I would do and if I missed my flight I would claim it with the security company. Never an excuse for incompetence. Nowhere!

On a last note; behind the tourist facade of "red-light" and "coffee-shop" there is a very hospitable country (where they even speak English) Maybe in your wiser years you might find the energy to see for your self.... and have a laugh... ?


Pointer :E

[cavortingcheetah]

:)Pointer: Peace be upon you.
I must say that I do find it embarrassing to find so many other Europeans who speak English when so few English are able to communicate in other tongues, even when relatively firmly in the cheeks, as it were.
It may comfort you to know that I have spent many a happy time in Holland, far away from the hash and whores of Amsterdam. May I say that, in general, I prefer the Dutch humour to the local variety, depending,of course upon where I find myself. As to prison, I fear that most dungeons are neither full enough nor sufficiently medieval to deter repeat offenders but then I suspect that I have some rather unpolitically correct views on the subject.
Thank you for your advice. I don't quite see why a Military Police Officer should be required to intervene in what I would perceive to be a civilian security matter. But that is of little consequence. I hope it never happens again and the next time I go through the search pattern I shall innocently mutter ' waar is 'n marchaussee'
as the hands sneak around the back of my waistband.

;)

[Pointer]

Ahh i see you have descended back to earth, i wish you the same.

The reason why you should get an military police involved is that they are burdoned with the task of border security. (seeing the daimond heist they are not doing a very good task) I beleive there is a police station as well but don't know the involvements exactly.

At the moment i am enjoying the fabulous Scottish weather called "spring" overhere. I do share your views on the matters at hand but i try to keep an 'observant' point of view. and never shun a good debate!

Until we might 'cross' our keyboards again, so long

Pointer :E

[jumbojetjockey]

Is it ok to have one or two drinky poos before a flight, as long as you are not completely totalled?

[cavortingcheetah]

:p Of course. Just make sure it's not bonny clabber and you'd better avoid that as well Pointer.
Happy Days:
cc

[flyburg]

I have read this post with interest and finally I do have to make a couple of comments.

First of all: why do people keep complaining about the fact that passengers would be able to see that crew are being tested. They way the crewcenter access to the terminal is constructed there is a definite S turn, PEOPLE WILL NOT SEE CREW GO THROUGH SECURITY AND SO THEY WILL NOT SEE CREW BEING TESTED, set aside the occasional business lounge passenger. Anybody that claims otherwise is dead wrong (this from a crewmember that flies daily out of AMS)

The security people checking crew are very proffesional ( and have finished at least high school and are not disabled, nor any other form of disgrunteld minority that has a beef with white man) but perhaps they take it to seriously ( I grant, but would americans have it any other way)

I believe that going to security at AMS is in no way comparable to the insulting and degrading experience that crews have to endure from the TSA staff in the states ( anybody that claims TSA is better, more proffesional or more curtious that AMS security is full of S..T)

Lets just finally leave it alone. Since 9/11 security has been upgraded everywhere. Alcohol checks are a fact of life these days.
I would rather endure these at AMS where staff is at least well trained ( and bye the way alcohol checks are being done by the military police and not security people) and profesional that some other places let alone the states, where unless you are card carying member of Al Quada you will be insulted,degraded, demaened and treated like a common criminal.

P.s. all spelling mistakes alcohol induced

[Ranger 1]

Ok now there is alcohol testing for crews at AMS, what about some of the P:mad: head pax who walk through security smelling of booze do they get stopped & checked & told they cant fly?
Abuse & violence (Air rage) is on the increase, I have seen handling agents ask the Capt if he is willing to take a passenger or passengers they suspect of drinking, why not weed some of these out at the gate & not just check the crews. :suspect:

[dnx]

I agree with Ranger on this one.
Intoxicated pax must be prohibited from boarding the aircraft. Unfortunately ground staff frequently passes the problem on to the cabin crew rather than handeling this dangerous practice.
The E.U. has come up with all sorts of totally unnecessary pax protection laws but have forgotten in their infinate wisdom to address this potentially letal problem.
Can we stop this tread now and start with something really interresting?

[BenThere]

Unfortunately, the few have brought this on for the many. There are pilots drinking and flying out there. When AMS goes through 10,000 checks and doesn't catch anyone, the testing policy might be revisited. Meanwhile, it is right to complain if you are not treated with common respect.

TSA in the states is another matter. About one in ten encounters I have with them is unpleasant and my rude treatment by TSA uncalled for. When a uniformed crewmember is publicly searched and ordered around without any basis for suspicion, it discredits both the crewmember and TSA with the viewing public.

I understand that uniforms and IDs have been stolen or lost, and there is some risk of someone posing as a pilot trying to gain access, but the handling of the person under scrutiny by the TSA needs to be treated sensibly. Pilots and TSA should be working together to increase security, but the evolution of this relationship has destroyed much opportunity to do so.

Finally, TSA needs to pay a lot more attention to searching more likely perpetrators, and drop the PC policy of searching an equal percentage of little old ladies and Middle Eastern males.

[Falconpilot]

Seems to have been an interresting subject !
It looks like as well that some point of views "derived" a bit from the normality... And as always some went waaaaay beyond the subject.

Anyhow, here's a reply to Niffy about my "head burried in the sand. "
Sorry for you, Niffy you have it all wrong. And I hope that your fellow pilots in your company do not know your callsign at Pprune!
Enjoy your landings to ya 'all.

[Pegasus77]

For the sake of flight safety I rather had the passengers tested for alcohol. There are far more problems caused by drunk pax than by crew.

I travel through AMS every week on my way to FRA, sometimes through the pax-security, sometimes the crew-security. I am always treated courteously, although sometimes I have to take my laptop out, other times I don't need to; there seems to be no logic behind that.

There is absolutely no comparison possible between AMS security staff and TSA. In RDU, when flying as a pax (in uniform) to ATL, I was forced by a big black security person, to undress unto my boxershorts in front of all passengers, after which my suitcase was flipped over and all my private stuff was thrown on the ground in full view for everyone. My question why this was necessary was answered with silence, my request for a private room was ignored, my request for the manager on duty was answered with "shut up and sit down". The entire procedure took over 25 minutes.
It made me miss my flight by the way. And almost missed my on duty flight in ATL as well...

Security in AMS is a breeze, really: polite and relatively quick.

P77

[lgtjanssen]

The reason why you should get an military police involved is that they are burdoned with the task of border security. (seeing the daimond heist they are not doing a very good task) I beleive there is a police station as well but don't know the involvements exactly.

The military police is the only police at AMS. They're not only burdoned with the task of border security but also with general policing tasks (both airside and landside).

[cavortingcheetah]

:)lgtjanssen
That police query related to my original post.
Thank you very much for the information.
regards to you.cc

[Bamse01]

In RDU, when flying as a pax (in uniform) to ATL, I was forced by a big black security person, to undress unto my boxershorts in front of all passengers, after which my suitcase was flipped over and all my private stuff was thrown on the ground in full view for everyone. My question why this

Sounds a bit far fetched to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pegasus77]

Hello Bamse01,

I had difficulty believing it myself, had it not been me standing there. It was just after xmas, maybe the TSA staff didn't get as much presents from Santa as they'd wished.
But I must admit that it did actually happen. The reason for me being undressed is that the TSA 'needed' to check my clothing for traces of explosives, and I don't fit in the sniffer.
Are you familiar in RDU? The glass-cabins just up the stairs where you're put on a chair when they check your stuff?

Regards,
P77