BCUC BA (Hons) Air Transport with Commercial Pilot Training

[hobbit1983]

Morning,

I'm (strongly) considering applying to the above course (can be found here http://www.bcuc.ac.uk/main.asp?page=129 ) and would like to know, has anyone else completed/applied for it?

(have searched previous posts on Buckinghamshire Chilterns)

My main questions are:
How relevant/well taught is the course content?
How difficult was it to get onto the course?
Any key points not mentioned/fully expounded upon in the prospectus?

I am attending the open day on the 25th of May, but would very much appreciate any advice from current/ex students.

Many thanks in advance

[hobbit1983]

Is this the wrong place to post the question?

(or merely that no-one here has attended the course...)

[JamesTigris]

Have you been in touch with them to find these things out? They're all reasonable questions and their contact details are right at the bottom of the page.

I would be curious to know what the fees and hidden costs are. I doubt its the standard University Tuition Fee....

[Send Clowns]

[This may sound harsh, but I am trying to get you to question your decision to go more than I did my decision to take a degree, so don't take it to heart. It might be that you are already, but you have more to lose than I did, since they invented top-up fees!]

My question would be "why?"

I cannot see any real relevance in the "Air Transport" section, except perhaps a small relevance if you would like airline management to be your fall back in the case of a lost medical. However I would suggeast the most likely reason for not having a flying job but having a licence is a downturn in the industry, when this degree will be as useful as a handbrake on a canoe.

I would also suggest that most management positions that require a degree require just that: a degree. Even positions in the business. The only reason for asking for a relevant degree is for a manager of a very technical industry, which airlines are not in the areas this would cover.

Is this degree a well-respected course in its own right, a course at a good university (Buckinghamshire Chilterns?) with high entry standards and a high academic quality, a proper degree course rather than an extended, thorough diploma? If not it's probably a waste of time; more and more students are concerned about jobs, recent studies have shown, and rightly so; there are fewer graduate jobs than graduates due to government policy.

If you want a degree and can get into a respected university, a traditional one, a red brick or a top-end former poly on a respected course then go for that instead. If you can't, or don't want to do any of the courses offered in them then do the ATPLs independently and do something useful, productive and preferably lucrative with the time saved. You can learn more relevant skills and make more good contacts with the right job in the industry, even at entry level, than in a degree.

[JamesTigris]

Thanks for the advice Clowns, always welcome.

I think the issue here is that there are alot of people out there who know that they want to be a pilot from an early age and when it comes to choosing a University degree they want something to maximise their chances of getting that dream job.

I personally think (as with 99.9% of jobs) the specific content of a University degree has little to do with the job you gradate into, although the experience of going through university is benificial for indipendence and maturity. And this is very true of the craft of professional flying.

I am just completing a Physics degree at a well established and industry respected University and I chose to do that not because it would help me with my flying career but because the state of the avitation industry requires a new entrant to have a second option.

The truth is that flying training is incredibly expensive and its not all that feasable to add £60,000 worth of debt to the £15,000 I'll have by the time I leave. Any and all avenues are worth exploring!

[Tallbloke]

Hobbit,
I cannot see any advantage to a regular integrated course. Have I missed something or is there no academic content beyond the ATPL theory? What are the fees?

City University used to run an MSc Air Transport Studies, which included all of the ATPL study and was linked to Cabair. (They may still do, but I am no longer there so I do not know. Try this (http://www.city.ac.uk/ugrad/engineering/operations.html)) . I was told that the reason they moved to Jerez was that the British weather does not coincide nicely with the academic calender, and they had problems getting people into class as they had not finished flying elements. This course was also 3 years, but 2 years of this were academic study, a lot of which was in relevent areas, (AT economics, AT operations, aerodynamics etc.) The other problem was the ATPL was done in year 2, with a third year to follow. Apparently quite a few students left after 2nd year because they had their ATPL and could not see the value of another year at college with skills diminishing.
If you have the money for training, why not do the training now and try and get employed. After a couple of years, you could then do an MSc course in something such as Air Transport Management, you might even be able to get the company to pay for it!

[james brown]

Send clowns makes an excellent point.
If you want to be a pilot, train at a flying school. Do it as quickly as possible to maintain continuity. Fair enough if you want a degree do it first, but trying to combine both looks to me like a mess.
Anyone know what the fees are?
There is another scheme which tries to combine both - at Leeds, although that is just to PPL level. I've seen those guys around and I think the same thing - why? They are getting a PPL for about a grand less, but in return are taking ages over it. The degree itself really isn't going to put them in a better position to get a job. And it really is a course cut to the bone, the instrument stuff being done in a sim. If they spent those 3 years working they could afford a CPL/IR straight off.

[Groundloop]

Just got to clear up some of Tallbloke's comments on the course at City University. The course title is BSc (Hons) in Air Transport Operations. We still use Cabair as a training provider at Part 2 as well as OAT and FTE. It is left to the individual student to chose which one they go to.

Although the ATPL is in Part 2, Part 3 (back at the University) is part-time therefore students can work AND complete the degree.

Only one student did not return for Part 3, all other students have completed the course and 82% are now working as pilots.

Regarding the Bucks course I believe this is its first year of running.

[JamesTigris]

I must say I would tend to agree with Clowns and Tallbloke. It seems to me if you want to go to University then make the most of it and get a high quality degree like Engineering as a second career choice from a top University.

The courses mentioned here seem to offer no significant advantage over simply doing the training independently. From the City website "Part 2 [flying training] fees are arranged between the student and their selected flight training organisation", so it seems they're not providing any real support when it comes to finding money for training.

At the end of the day its better to have the licence with another degree or professional qualification, both from the point of view of the airline recruiter and the potential pilot. If the fATPL is all you're after this seems like a time consuming and expensive way to get it.

My words do come with a waiver however! Mine is an uninformed opinion so take it with a pinch of salt :=