TTMRA a joke?!

[aviatorX]

Hi all,

I have recently started the process of transferring my NZ CPL(H) to an CASA CPL(H)-after scoring a job there.


I was surprised to find a massive increase in fees and charges at CASA for NZ pilots.

$55 License

$60 per a/c Rating

$85 per instructor rating

$85 Night rating



With 5 a/c ratings, C-cat and NVFR to transfer I’m looking at a cost of $495.00 AUD

Considering the work the local office will have to do this is a RIPOFF.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

[Howard Hughes]

aviatorx,

Is this comparable with conversion the other way?

Cheers, HH.

:ok:

[Metro man]

What a bargain and how incredibly cheap when compared to the UK CAA ! For what you are spending for licence conversion I doubt you could even do a class 1 medical in England. CAA = cash, again, again.

[PropDuster]

Just be grateful you have a job in the industry.

As an expat working in Aus myself I know how little work there is for GA drivers in NZ.

You've done well to score a helo job here in the first place. :O

[wtfia]

Beware also that you fully understand the agreement, as it could cost more down the line.

If you fly in aus for more than five years (and in that time dont operate a nz reg'd a/c) then go back to nz to work, be prepared to have to re-sit the cpl law and initial issue flight test. Dont think you can get around it by re-applying for your nz licence based on your aus, you only get one bite at this cherry!

[slice]

wtfia - that sounds silly. I have NZ ATPL issued through TTMRA ($110 NZ) and have never seen an NZ Law exam or done flight test. But AFAIK the Licence is issued in perpetuity (?)

[Lasiorhinus]

I thought the whole point of the TTMRA was that the licenses of each country were mutually recognised in the other country.
Why do you need to convert them?

[wtfia]

That was my reaction- this sounds silly.
This is how NZCAA explained it to me, regarding my cpl.

Once you have converted your licence either way, you then have two licences and are required to excercise the priveleges of them in that 5 yr period in order to keep them... (lifetime licence?) All I needed to do was fly a NZ reg'd a/c- anywhere!!
Not sure how this applies to ATPL but that is their current interpretation of the law.

[Henry The Octopus]

Aviator X, it never ceases to amaze me how many people lob into Australia and immediately start complaining.

From your original post, it would appear that you haven't had to sit any examinations - theory or flying to convert your NZ qualifications to Australian ones? If that is the case then you have saved yourself a lot of money and should be grateful you've got off so lightly but that is only my opinion.

HTO

[Jawz]

Stop wingeing kiwi or go home

[aviatorX]

Howard Hughes, Aust to NZ is about half the price.

Metro Man, did I mention anything going to the UK, I know you guys do it hard there.

Propduster, I know that bro...........but .

Wtfia and slice, that does sound crazy but I can believe it, anyway I intent staying in Aussie.

Lasiorhinus, thats my point, i dont mind an admin fee of some sort but $500 is silly

Henry The Octopus, your a dick...........................do you know what TTMRA is or not?? Finish your flight training boy.
re read my post, MY ISSUE IS THE INCREASE IN COST, approx doubled in the last couple of months.


Jawz, you sound like a poor fool who finished his CPL months ago and now can’t find a job flying, angry and embarrassed you resort to posting silly little comments with no real meaning. I also suspect, due to your profile........ your a yank. In which case you dont realise its anzac weekend and your coments are stupid.

[turbinejunkie]

TTMRA is a laugh.

I have just converted my Oz ATPL to NZ and while cost is ok, I lose plenty of endorsements along the way as NZ do not recognise Class Ratings, only type ratings.

For example, under CAO 40.1.0 a C402 class endorsement allows a pilot to fly C401 / 402 / 404 / 411 / 414 and 421 (provided the pilot has pressurisation design feature also).

If said pilot has only flown say C402, the priviledges to fly the C404 Titan etc. in NZ do not exist unless that pilot does a specific end. in NZ or flies that aircraft first in Oz.

The NZ CAA argument boils down to one of perceived safety issues. If it is so unsafe for a pilot to have multiple endorsements here in Oz (without a pilot having flown the other types in the class), why then does CASA allow it? Or for that matter, (I stand to be corrected on this), the FAA provide a general multi-engine category for light twins similar to how we have the "single engine aircraft below 5700 kg MTOW" category?:confused:

Just on that point, I had to list every damn single I had ever flown just to get them put on the NZ licence same as I had to do for the twins!!! C150 / 152 / 172 / 172RG / PA28 etc. etc. etc. :yuk:

Oz co-pilot instrument and type ratings do not count for anything either. Bad luck if they're over 5700 kg and damnably expensive to upgrade to Command endorsements before licence conversion to add to the list on a shiny, newly converted licence.

On the flip side, a whinging Kiwi like the topic starter above, can come across to Oz with just a 402 type endorsement and for the bargain price listed in his / her own post, get a bonus 5 endorsements added to his / her licence.

Much cheaper than going out and flying them from scratch like he / she would have to do otherwise in NZ ........

Nothing like standardisation throughout the world:

Liberal ----------------- Over the top ------- Absolutely Protectionist

USA --> Australia ----> New Zealand -----> United Kingdom / EU

Oh well, at least I don't have to face those wretched 14 exams just yet .... End of soapbox.

TJ :{ :{

[aviatorX]

thanks for putting me right dad, I must be on the pigs back then.

[Henry The Octopus]

Hi turbinejunkie,

I can see your point reference the differing methods of issuing aircraft endorsements. The issue of Class endorsements under the Australian system is not well understood (due mainly to obscure wording in CAO 40.1.0), in particular the S/E <5700kg bit. I used to be under the mistaken belief that if I had experience on, for example, the Cessna 210, then I could legally fly aircraft such as the Bonanza or Piper Lance without any additional check (subject to any insurance or company requirements), as it was covered under the S/E < 5700kg class. However, this is not the case.

Hi aviatorX,

Sorry for getting off side with you earlier, however once you, your partner and 6 kids get over here and start collecting family assistance payments, the $495 will seem like a drop in the ocean and you'll never want to go home just like many of your predecessors.

Cheers.

HTO

[Jawz]

oi x

how wrong u r on all accounts

i just dont like kiwi chopper pilot's

say no more

[Thump & Go]

turbanjunkie pity you were poorly informed, someone could have mentioned that you don't require type ratings printed on your licence just listed in your logbook - would've saved some coin.
What is a co-pilot instrument rating anyway? You either have an IR or you don't surely??

Thump

[aviatorX]

T&G, incorrect bro, Aussie have several different IFR ratings unlike NZ. The Idea is to make IFR training and ratings accessible to everyone which is why they have a PPL IFR rating for example.
Quite a good idea really.

HTO, tell me more man, sounds interesting.

Ax

[cjam]

HTO, your country is made up of, immigrants ....
what do you reckon the chances are that someone motivated enough to get a HCPL and score a job, is going to sit around on the dole? Even if they don't stick at flying they will no doubt re-train and pay taxes for their whole working career.

JAWZ...."I just hate kiwi chopper pilots" is a silly thing to say really. You may as well have written " I am too scared/shallow/ thick to realise that a prejudice against an entire group of people is never accurate. What other pejudices role easily off your tounge???
I feel sorry for all you well balanced and forward thinking Ausi's (the vast majority),because I've noticed you have a larger percentage of closed minded and generally ignorant people than most countries.

I think Aus is a fantastic country and am in favour of tough immigration laws. (just so you don't think I'm a lefty).
cjam

[Thump & Go]

Perhaps I was a little obscure with my tongue-in-cheek comment re co-pilot instrument rating Mr X. Yes I know you have different IFR ratings in good 'ole Oz and I'm familiar with PPL IR as you put it - you can get an MEIR as a lowly PPL over here too - what I want to know is what does a co-pilot IR give you? Does it mean you can operate as a co for a fully IR rated pilot (in which case what use is it to you?!) or does it mean you require a co-pilot/second pilot/safety pilot to fly IFR? Us hairy-footed ones over here in backward hobbit land call that a Single-pilot or Two-pilot instrument rating.

With respect to turbinejunkie's post I was of course refering to type-ratings printed on his (converted) NZ licence.

[Centaurus]

As an Australian with an OZ ATPL, I have held a NZ ATPL since 1988 and kept it current each six months via a medical and paperwork showing hours flown. About 7 years ago when it was obvious I was never going to use the NZ ATPL I decided not to renew the NZ medicals although I kept my Australian ATPL current via normal procedures, medicals etc.

Then the possibility of a job in NZ was on the horizon so I applied via the TTRMA for a NZ ATPL as I was fully current including CIR on the Australian ATPL.

The NZ CAA knocked me back saying as I already held a NZ ATPL I couldn't have a second ATPL via TTRMA - but as my NZ ATPL was invalid after 5 years of no renewals I couldn't use that either. Catch 22. However, the NZ CAA said, if I want my NZ ATPL back all I had to do was ATPL Air Law, undergo a NZ instrument rating test, do a medical and I think a ATPL flight proficiency check. Very expensive plus air fares to and from NZ.

I said thanks for all that, but how about I send my NZ ATPL back in the post to you and you can delete it from your licence register and then give me another new NZ ATPL via the TTRMA? Sounded a reasonable idea to me. No can do said the NZ CAA as that would be against the spirit of the TTRMA.

The job disappeared over the horizon of course. Bureaucracy won hands down.

[slice]

The Licence (NZ ATPL) I received does not have any expiry date on it. How will an operator ever know if it is expired or not ?

Is there some actual info from the NZ CAA on their website regarding this. Nothing I remember reading mentioned a five year expiry!

[Thump & Go]

Slice it's something along the lines of your law exam being valid only for 5 years if you are not exercising the privileges of said licence. I believe this is the case for an inactive CPL holder also, the fulla will have to resit the law exam current at the time if he has not used his CPL privileges in previous 5 years.
Not gospel. I stand to be corrected.

[currawong]

Get this.

I applied when TTMRA was pretty new. The fed handling it did not like the idea of TTMRA and refused to issue the license on that basis.

Fortunately, the folks that dreamed up the scheme foresaw this kind of idiot in their own system and engineered a way around them. Find a solid reason as to why not to issue within 30 days or license is deemed as issued....

[compressor stall]

The usual childish immature remarks above. Grow up.

The cost of the TTMRA NZ-Oz is unfair if the figures above are right. I, like one of the posters above, have a NZ ATPL issued by sending them my Oz one. Cost me NZD$110.

Should be much the same each way.

[turbinejunkie]

Hi Centaurus,

seeing that my experience with the Flight Crew Licensing people at CAA NZ has got off to a blinder, can you (or anyone else) advise me how you can keep the NZ licence valid?

Do you actually have to fly commercially in NZ or is it as I had the impression before reading your post that simply conducting a NZ commercial medical with a CAA NZ approved DAME would suffice and if so, can that be done in Oz or elsewhere?

Also, do you have to do your subsequent IFR renewals in NZ or can you continue doing Australian renewals and keep the NZ IFR alive that way?

Doing two separate sets of renewals in Oz and NZ each year wasn't something I bargained on cost-wise and hope that's not the case! :uhoh:

I was aware that TTMRA conversion is a one-off so now I have it, I don't want it to lapse.

The other scary thought is, if I started working in NZ, what would happen to my Oz quals in the meantime if I didn't do my subsequent renewals in Oz (IFR and medical)?

Can anyone shed some light here?

TJ :ok:

p.s. By the way, I am in complete agreement with the concept that reciprocal licensing should be just that. The same from one country to the next (including fees). Isn't that what ICAO is meant to be about - you know, standardisation of aviation regulation throughout the world?

Unfortunately, it's pixie-land stuff 'cos the world is just very bloody different and full of inconsistencies.

Sigh. I think I'll go have that drink now ...... :)