Gold Airways

[ROCKSTEADY]

19 April 2005

Gold Airways plans may upset Ozjet dream.

There is no gap in the airline passenger business market in Australia, if there was there would be more demand for business class seats out there. Business Australia is not complaining; it's happy to fly with well behaved tourists at row 20, even with lap top in tow. And the current airlines, VirginBlue, JetStar and Qantas in the main are doing a reasonable job. If they weren't they wouldn't have had such healthy growth rates. These airlines are not stupid, there is good reason for them not going where Ozjet seems to think it has a niche.

The fact is Ozjet may have been better sticking to its original plan as an LCC rather that make assumptions that it will attract 30 x $598 fares between Melbourne and Sydney. And that is because it will ultimately be forced into the LCC market anyway - if it can stomach the pressure. An all-business niche with a market share of 10% would signal an extraordinary shift in historical business class travel statistics in Australia.

Gold Airways plans to make Ozjet's life miserable. Not only will it compete where its hurts but it can compete on price, product, frequency and speed. And the timing. Well let's just say that's Gold Airways' best kept secret.



hahahahaaahaahaahaahhahahahahah

<<<< Dont yah just love good competition >>>>

[Barbossa]

..that would have to go down as one of the most ill-informed, ignorant comments I have yet seen on PPRUNE. You have obviously no awareness of the domestic market drivers and one of the most significant issues in the market place since Ansett's collapse. Virgin is experiencing it now and trying to do something about it. Both QF and VB have targetted the lower end of the market spectrum since the collapse and the inevitable outcome has been to the corporate market.

I don't believe OZJet will work, but that isn't because there isn't a market - its because that market wants a whole lot more than a comfy seat; and even then a comfy seat on a 35 year old 737-200 or a much-loathed 146 regional-jet made up to look like a mainline jet won't cut the mustard either.

The reason you keep prattling on about Gold Airways (what's it been - 3 years now?), causing a lot of heartache for some very niave ex-Ansett people, and never getting anywhere is explained by your post - you just don't understand the market-place.

I suggest you focus on fixing aircraft rather than trying to fly them; and even then I understand you're pretty stretched.

[Eimar Moron]

Please tell us more, Barbossa.

[Woomera]

Go here (http://www.flygold.com.au/)

and here (http://www.pacificsouthwestengineering.com.au/)

Am I having another deja vu moment??

[gaunty]

CONSULTING OPPORTUNITIES

Only limited opportunities currently still exist in the Gold Airways venture for highly skilled and committed aviation individuals with a flare for innovation and change. Conditions apply.

Consultants are engaged on a Venture Consulting Agreement without remuneration and must bear their own minor expenses.

In return, whilst it is not without risk, Consultants can participate in the equity of the venture, be offered employment in their area of expertise and obtain attractive travel benefits.

Opportunities are currently available in our business, engineering and flight operations areas and you should have current financial support and adequate free time if you wish to participate.

Applicants may be required to submit to security background checks and sign a non-disclosure agreement before interview.



And they want you to sign an NDA on the basis of that? Should be the other way around as it is likely that you would be bringing more to the table than they and you get to pay for giving it away as well. Neato:confused: :mad:

[Apophis]

what equipment do they have letS see that would be NOTHING !

[DirectAnywhere]

Anyone know what happened to "VentureExecutive"?

He and his logo have gone very quiet of late but the logo reappears in that second link (http://www.pacificsouthwestengineering.com.au/) provided by Woomera.

Wonder if he's reivented himself?

[rmm]

Rumour has it that he was dismissed from his LAME position at the QF/Forstaff Avalon maintenance facility due to a conflict of interest.

[Legal_Counsel]

I found this thread quite intruiging as a newcomer. From my legal understanding this is a common practice in firms who develop from a founding member group though I must confess I have not seen it as explicitly advertised as that site has.

My guess is that this is a typical arrangement where the contributors receive founding shares in the airline once it is launched. This would ensure that sufficient momentum is maintained up to launch.

What usually happens is that founders shares are issued. Not worthless but for nearly nil consideration. If the company floats on the stock exchange at say $5 per share, and a member has 5,000,000 founders shares, this would result in a networth of $25M. Technically, the shares could be converted to ordinary shares and traded for that amount. Founders shares are the most valuable shares you can have in a company at the outset.

I am a bit confused about the relevance of the last two posts but presume it is from some earlier thread?

Pardon my ignorance but I am presuming LAME is some sort of engineering position at Avalon.

In law, if an employer dismisses a person for a conflict of interest, it would have to be established on the balance of probability that a genuine conflict of interest existed between the current position and the position that person took which appeared to be in conflict. There are no hard and fast rules on conflict of interest and what may be perceived as a conflict may in fact not be. In fact there needs to almost be a one to one relationship between the interests. In the case of LAME, he would have to have compromised the position of his employer for a personal gain. It is not sufficient for the employer to assume a conflict of interest if LAME runs his own engineering business, even if that business is developing an airline (from Woomera's links). Apologies if I am associating LAME with this site - I am using it to illustrate my point.

A major problem in this area is whether an employer can demand a duty of disclosure from an employee if the lines of demarcation are unclear and not defined. In such cases, common-sense is often relied upon by the employer. My experience in NSW is that these cases make excellent fodder for the legal profession!

Anyway, whether dismissed or resigned, it appears the guy is doing something productive to create jobs and I can only encourage that.

[DirectAnywhere]

Unfortunately Legal_Counsel, and it's not restricted to this industry but appears to be particularly rampant, there are plenty of people who appear to be doing "something productive to create jobs" who are merely interested in screwing as much money out of as many people as possible and suddenly disappearing in to the night.

That said, it's refreshing to see some positive, intelligent and reasoned contributions. Welcome aboard!!

[gaunty]

Legal_Counsel quite so:

The rub is;
My guess is that this is a typical arrangement where the contributors receive founding shares in the airline once it is launched. This would ensure that sufficient momentum is maintained up to launch. who gets to decide what value each member will contribute at the get go or has contributed. And who subsequently "owns" the intelectual property generated by the combination of their individual efforts and can they recover their individual rights should it all turn to tears. Someone or many will wind up with a mouthfull of feathers.

I am sure you would agree that a good part of a lawyers work is spent deconstructing failed dreams or expectations and the equitable distribution of the remains.

It's trite I know but the road to hell in these particular situations is always paved with good intentions, it's when it fails or suceeds that the real trouble starts.

Personally, in this industry given the personalities that seem to populate it, I can't think of any way there could be an equitable distribution perceived or otherwise of founding shares v input:uhoh:

Of course you could always start a regular company with a proper prospectus defined share capital issued at whatever $'s and employ people on a cash basis or issue shares at par in exchange. Then the fight starts about who gets to run it who's on the board and who gets employed.:rolleyes:

[Legal_Counsel]

The issue of a public company seeking an investment to start has long been one of credibility. Just as today we seek to explore who is behind a mining company, what expertise they have and what they are dealing with and how they are dealing with it, before we buy the mining shares, investors must be savvy about the airline's business plan and who is lending credibility to it.

Thus to simply make a prospectus and put it into the market may not be enough to realistically attract interest. You need to have a person of some respect and notoriety behind it. However, without a thoroughly researched business plan, having a person of notoriety is not enough.

In the case of Ozjet, for example, both aspects are not particularly strong in my view and it will be an uphill battle for that proposed airline to succeed with that legacy even if it does initially fly. Based on what I can see from press reports, the company's owners have no firm business plans and their credibility must be in doubt when you see the company has employed 60 people and yet their website provides no access. I find this quite strange sort of behaviour.

In respect of the contribution founders make, I think generally the intellectual property is exchanged for founders interest in shares which will usually realise with an initial public offering (IPO). I still believe that founders shares are the best share to have. These can be distributed on the basis of responsibility, period of contribution and intellectual value. However, it is rare for founders to complain about "equitable distribution" as that is usually negotiable.

Just going back a step to the Ozjet situation, the problem this entrant will create for Australian aviation investment will be predicated on its failure. If the airline fails before start up then investors generally may not judge the industry by it. If it fails after start up, investors may think twice about further investment in the industry as the Compass I & II and Impulse had failed before and the stigma of a 2/3 airline Australia remains.

Ozjet does have the option of going public (requires change of company type), requiring it to be reasonably successful within the first couple of years. Having now pitted itself against the golden triangle market leaders (Virgin Blue and Qantas) I would think investors would be rather coy.

I was wondering when this Gold Airways was starting up. Their website is still not allowing access but judging by its presence, it looks like it is still going ahead. I think it will be the grand new challenger when it finally gets up. Not sure if they need a lawyer though Gaunty. :sad:

[BAE146]

May be a good time to re-read what was posted HERE (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=171767) back in April !:cool:

[wessex19]

who wants to buy a lovelly used car, driven to church on Sundays only by an old lady!!! Don't let appearances fool you guys!!!!

[Legal_Counsel]

Your replies are a bit confusing but if I were investing in Australian aviation I would regard that as an emerging market. If 5% of my time could achieve a share portfolio of say 1M founders shares I might seriously invest another 5% of my own money in a airline competitor or within a aviation portolio managed by a hedge fund manager and then work my butt off to get the newstart underway (I hope my boss doesn't read these threads). The disturbance this would cause would surely be a great two way bet.

I think pilots tend to lend great support to start ups but mainly because of the chief pilot status, I guess, and the quick rewards these things can bring. However, you can do it all in vain too but that is often just a diversion. Unfortunately I do see a lot of start up cases coming through in all areas of business and aviation is not unique to the same probelems (but I cannot comment on these as my boss would kill me) and I am sadenned that they serve to undo good friendships and in fact good plans! :(

[rescue 1]

I had heard rumours that this mob were looking for people - and thanks to pprune I found the website straight away.

With the number of people they're looking for their goal of 0.06/ASK - tell 'em their dreamin son!

[Apophis]

no hangars no aircraft no tooling no staff no site to operate from get real its not going to happen.

[Boney]

LC

There are no quick rewards in this industry for drivers, I can assure you!

[Legal_Counsel]

Noticed SMH carried an article about Gold Air in the paper this morning. Looks like they are looking for backers or are not telling.

Wonder who this European interest is?

At least they are upfront about the competition and are not afraid to say so.

[rmm]

Still a good investment Legal_Counsel?

From the SMH

Gold Air has vision but not the planes
By Scott Rochfort
September 21, 2005


The planned launch of Australia's fourth domestic airline, OzJet, and the surge in fuel prices have not dampened the enthusiasm of one former Ansett employee to establish his own carrier.

So enthusiastic is Jens Buche that his airline, RMA Gold Airways, already has a booking engine on its website with a list of 50 destinations ranging from Sydney and Geelong's Avalon Airport to more exotic locations such as the West Australian mining town of Paraburdoo. He also has dreams of flying internationally.

Only a few problems stand in the way. Gold Air has no aircraft, no air operator's certificate, no launch date and no major financial backers. But Mr Buche has claimed this is all about to change as he attempts to lease a fleet of Airbus A320s.

From his home in the Melbourne suburb of Doncaster, the 54-year-old Mr Buche declined to go into detail. "I guess we're being very coy," he said, noting the media blackout on Gold Air's plans to attack Qantas, Jetstar, Virgin Blue and possibly OzJet.
AdvertisementAdvertisement

Gold Air has started advertising for staff - from flight attendants, pilots, tug drivers, public relations advisers to Workcover claims assessors - on its website and Mr Buche said he was not far from letting the public know about his venture.

"We've got 65 consultants working on this and it's very much a full-time job for most of them," he said.

"It's a challenge. We have got international consultants. We've got a huge player involved with us on the European front."

Mr Buche declined to say who the major player was. But according to documents filed with the Australian Securities and Investments Commission, the former Ansett engineer is Gold Air's only key shareholder.

But it is clear Mr Buche wants investors and people to offer their expertise in return for a slice of his dream. On his website he invites people to "share in the equity of an exciting new Australasian domestic and international airline venture by contributing your talent under a venture consulting agreement".

The RMA in front of Gold Air's name is in honour of Ansett founder Reg Miles Ansett.

Mr Buche declined to say how he came up with the name Gold Air. He said he would get his "fingers cut off by his marketing department" if he divulged such information.

[tinpis]

Wonder who this European interest is?

The Swedish chef??
Princess Mary?

[Apophis]

what a load of crap

[rmm]

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Only a few problems stand in the way. Gold Air has no aircraft, no air operator's certificate, no launch date and no major financial backers

[Richard Kranium]

Most great airlines flying to-day started with a vision, wouldn't it be a marketing coup to have Princess Mary, I could just imagine the clambering and rolling heads.

Gold Airways one could assume is not there to just upset others plans, no more than when Virgin and Jet* strated or OzJet for that matter.

In the end the punters will vote with their feet, Ansett never collapsed, it was murdered and gotten rid of, and I think there are many out there, that know and remember that fact.

I assume that many ex Ansett staff will be employed by Gold, as so many of them have been so totally discriminated against by the current incumbents.

[Apophis]

lets get real Ansett is over finished done gone for ever will never be back and this gold airways thing is just plain crap.

[Pimp Daddy]

Hope no-ones been dumb enough to give this loon any of their money.

[EPIRB]

I'd be rather sceptical about load factors in an A320 flying to Forrest!

[Apophis]

i would bet some fool has.

[Zigzag]

Noticed SMH carried an article about Gold Air in the paper this morning. Looks like they are looking for backers or are not telling.

Wonder who this European interest is?

At least they are upfront about the competition and are not afraid to say so.

Where's your "Analysing Gold Airways - The unofficial Business Plan", or "Gold Airways Launch Setback" thread?? :confused:

If you didn't want to be seen to have a vested interest in Gold Airways (which would explain your anti-Ozjet ramblings), you would do so.

C'mon, let's be honest - where oh where will Gold Airways get it's patronage from, considering (as far as I can tell) they intend on being Ansetts "successor". There is no opening for a full service, two class carrier in Australia.

I await the threads :rolleyes:

[iceblock]

Zigzag,

You will not get a response from the person you are directing your post at, just like we are still awaiting a response on the Rex thread and the OZjet thread.

As I have stated the ploy is to stirr up trouble and then lie dormant or lurk in the Cabin Crew forum until we all forget who started it all in the first place.

Since we are all gold fish the ploy is working....

I'm with you - the person we speak of has sunk their money in Gold Airways. This is the only reason I can think of for the campaign against Ozjet.

[Legal_Counsel]

Not sure Zig Zag but the airline's name suggests a class of its own don't you think. Flexible classes are not irrelevant in today's market.

[Wizofoz]

Legal,

I suggest you now declare any and all interest you have in Gold Airways.

Whilst this is an anonomous forum, that does not absolve individuals from the laws of liable, securities and insider trading laws and fraud.

If, as a person with interests in Gold airways, you are talking up their intended operation whilst talking down a potential competitor, all the while posing as a neutral observer, and , by the implications of your handle, suggest you have legal qualifications to bolster you credibility, it could easily be interpreted as an attempt to gain financial gain by desception.

I also suggest the Mods have a "word in private" with you...

[Woomera]

Legal Counsel.

Your profile email address is invalid and your profile prohibits private messages.

Please change your profile to either include a valid email address, or permit PMs at least from Moderators and Administrators.

When you have amended your profile, contact me via PM or email to [email protected] and I will re-establish your access to Dunnunda forums.

Woomera

[Chris Higgins]

I say....busted!!!

[Woomera]

Not at all. Possibly changed email addresses and failed to modify the PPRuNe profile and PM's not accepted.

If I can't contact a PPRuNe user then they can stay out of the sand pit until they re establish communications.

Woomera

[stillontheground]

Woomera,

THANKYOU THANKYOU THANKYOU!!!

I am so glad that you made that decision! I have stopped posting on Pprune because of her, and have made other arrangements to get to chat to people. I am not alone in thinking this way! Thanks once again!

Its a shame that one individual like LC can put off other people from prospective jobs. From what I understand, LC put one particular Ppruner off so much that they turned down a job offer. LC should be ashamed of herself. :yuk:

Good luck to all involved in new careers at Ozjet.
Training in 9 days.

Still on the ground

[Woomera]

Legal_Counsel. Your access to these forums has been reinstated now you have amended your profile however you will be unable to post to this thread for two days to give you time to read and digest the email I sent you.

Woomera

[Barbossa]

Hmm..just did a little digging of my own, and perhaps RMM could confirm as I believe he was, or still is, an Ansett LAME. (or even AN LAME),

Mr Busche is still remembered without fondness around the place.

Perhaps, therefore, given Legal Counsels overt enthusiasm over Gold Airways, this therefore may be the conflict of interest.

Anyone from Ansett engineering able to confirm or deny?




Lets keep it to the people directly involved and who are in the public domain shall we. W

[Richard Kranium]

Why are we censoring Legal Council, what happened to free speach, he/she can say what he/she likes it supposed to be a free country, its either the truth, rumor or total fiction, who cares, it will never worry the intelligent.

Out here someone knows the real story, and if need be, will shoot down Legal Council or any one else with logic in relation to these threads.

Mind you an odd red herring doen't go astray to reel in the idiots of which there are many, and only for entertainment.

So I for one will give Gold my business, so the sooner they start the better, and there will be many others that will follow, many have had a gut full of the treatment by the incumbents since the demise of Ansett.

[Zigzag]

...but you still didn't answer my post.

Where are the threads? You've even got two days to work out how to construct them!

Not sure Zig Zag but the airline's name suggests a class of its own don't you think. Flexible classes are not irrelevant in today's market.

Class of it's own? No, I don't think. An offering any other airline in Aus offers, just renamed? I think so.

Flexible? Who cares. Contort it any way you want - the patronage wont be there. Business plan can look as bulletproof as anything, but lack of prospective passengers is why there's no backing.

I'd love to see Gold prosper. Unfortunately, I can't see it happening.

[Trashed Aviator]

Zig Zag,
your comments are baseless you are scared because a new player threatens your job.
If QF can fly full on mainline routes then there is people who can be poached , were not talking starting with 100 A/c and going head to head...

You have no idea boy..............:mad:

[AN LAME]

Hmm..just did a little digging of my own, and perhaps RMM could confirm as I believe he was, or still is, an Ansett LAME. (or even AN LAME)

HANG ON :mad:

I'm just sitting out here minding my own business while the rest of the world finds out what a snake in the grass this pr!ck is, and next thing I know I'm being accused of being him:* ... what IS the world coming to ? :confused:

PS You CAN teach a monkey to ride a bike... but Jens certainly can't fix one ;)

[Barbossa]

AN LAME - no, no, no - I didn't mean to infer you were him. I was seeking your input as to who he was and that a certain party related to him was known to engineers in the Tulla base of Ansett - that this person therefore may be Legal Counsel. Unfortunately, Woomera had to edit my post and therefore the whole message lost context.

Sorry - it was a bad choice of grammar.

[Woomera]

Let's not get personal please. Another Woomera posted:

Lets keep it to the people directly involved and who are in the public domain shall we. W

Woomera

[Zigzag]

Zig Zag, your comments are baseless you are scared because a new player threatens your job.

T A, that dart didn't even go near the board. So, so wrong. If Gold got up and thrived, I guarantee I would be no worse off one little bit. In fact, it would be quite the opposite. :rolleyes:

If QF can fly full on mainline routes then there is people who can be poached , were not talking starting with 100 A/c and going head to head...

If Qantas/Jetstar and Virgin have total control of the economy market, and Qantas (and possibly Ozjet) control the Business side of things, forgive me for being naive, but where is this influx of passsengers going to come from?

Of course things would start off small - I realise that. For even that to happen, however, PLENTY of people need to be convinced of it's viability. Obviously, not enough people are, as potential investors don't exactly appear to be falling over themselves to back the venture, do they?

You have no idea boy..............

Yes, yes, and you're the oracle. :*

Let's get one thing straight - I'm no G A basher. I would be happy for them to make a fist of it, and the first one to congratulate them. I'm quite happy to sit back and watch things transpire.

It's been almost 3 years now.........

[Trashed Aviator]

Well after flying for a screwed up outfit like EK im ready to fly a 402 from pana wonica....just to get home..........
There is room for all ......:(

[Richard Kranium]

Ahhh, T.A., you can't be serious, a 402 out of panawonica is better than EK!?, with the amount of expansion that is about to happen there with the type of equipment, EK will be a exciting place to be.

Anyway, you will probably get some "freshly fallen out of a tree snotty-nose" telling you that you had your go and this is their turf and stay out, 'cause in the next weeties packet they will get their licence and be destined for VB or Jet*.

[Mobi LAME]

I can think of one ex AN Avionics LAME currently at the SIT with big Q who will definitely not be getting onboard with RMA Gold due to the person involved. I remember meetings in CBR with CASA moderating about tech log entries, threats of legal action, libel. It was a great sideline show at the time. All Syd Ex AN LAMEs will fondly remember the rubbish entries that were deferred in a/c from ONS Mel. Opinion was divided as to whether it was a scam for overtime, the work ethic of a very fastidious LAME or it came from the pen of a very strange number.

[AN LAME]

...the work ethic of a very fastidious LAME or it came from the pen of a very strange number.

mobi...that would be the latter

[Richard Kranium]

Whats wrong with a LAME starting an airline, Reg Ansett was a taxi driver, Branson was a record retailer, Frank Lorenzo was a loser, East-West and Qantas was started by farmers, so tell me who is supposed to start airlines.

[Trashed Aviator]

The fact is it takes at least $20 million to get started , i dont think any ex an employees have this sort of cash if they did they would retire.
Its obvious a large investor is needed , so if they get the cash its a has a very reasonable chance of going.

It will cost the same to run as VB if not less and produce a better product and the business class will kill OZjets ...........

:ok:

[rmm]

Looks like he's placed his A350/A380 order

http://www.flygold.com/careers.html

[BAE146]

BWWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA .......hahahahaha!

[Statorblade]

Please Sir..............pick me, pick me!!

Either this guy is rolling in it or lost his marbles. I think I know which one it is.

Unbelievable. :E

[Richard Kranium]

What's unbelievable...what is wrong with placing an order for some A350's or 80's...they are just another aeroplane and maybe more efficient than the 330's or 777's...and how does anyone know its an order anyway...I think the ad says its for a Project Manager, maybe for number crunching or something...I certainly hope its an order, as that will cause a few earth quakes and unsettle a few protected species.:E

[Apophis]

IT,S NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN EVERYONE GET REAL HERE.

[BHMvictim]

Seems this ex Ansett LAME who is dreaming of re-incarnating Ansett, is one of those sad old bastards, (no dis-respect meant to happy old bastards;-), who needs a hobby. Stamp collecting?

I remember during my short stint in Avalon, ovehearing some of the comments made by a few ex Ansett engineers who seemed to believe Ansett would be flying again. Very amusing. (This Busche guy was probably one of the ones I overheard. His name is vaguely familiar).

Having a website with an online booking form and listing destinations before you even have one single aircraft is sure sign of a nutter who is living out some wierd fantasy!

....seems he has a fettish for new gen Airbus aircraft too!

[Richard Kranium]

What is it that they say...he who laughs first....So this ex Ansett LAME is a sad old bustard...like me then I suppose...so unlike you he and I are not young enough to know everything...then we shall just see...what's there to lose...it might work out that he will have the last laugh after all....unless you have to much to lose........:cool:

[BHMvictim]

http://www.flygold.com.au/

Don't you think it's a little fanciful to put up the above website when you have no planes, no equipment, no base, and virtually no staff?

It's kind of like that PC game where you build a virtual city!

Fantasy.

(P.S. I work with ex Ansett guys who are old, but certainly not sad bastards! Even they have a chuckle at the likes of this Buche gentleman)

[HI'er]

Is this person actually doing anyone any harm?

If he did manage get up and running, I imagine there might be a lot of those sad/happy old b's who would IMMEDIATELY be "great mates" with the one they're happy to pour scorn on right now.

But it's very Australian to knock the cr*pper out of anyone who might have even the remotest of chances of being successful, isn't it!

[BAE146]

If he did manage get up and running, I imagine there might be a lot of those sad/happy old b's who would IMMEDIATELY be "great mates" with the one they're happy to pour scorn on right now.

........good one Kap!


BWWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA .......hahahahaha!

[Richard Kranium]

Well I guess you can laugh if you wish and yes not everyone is popular with everybody all the time...the website does say coming soon and the only link that opens is the employment section....

We don't know what is going on behind the scenes and what has been accomplished, the best thing would be to keep an eye on the web site as things may update quite quickly......

I say good luck, it will be great to see another airline in the like of what Ansett was....I think a lot of people will apply if they haven't already, and I would assume there will be opportunity for lots of ex Ansett people in particular who still are unemployed after 4 years...;)

[BHMvictim]

Still unemployed after 4 years?

Are they waiting around for the corpse to spring back into life?

Over the last few days, I've chatted with a few that worked alongside Mr Buche.....

....my cynicism prevails.

[gaunty]

And whilst we are at it, when are the staff of Ansett going to get thier act together, sack their Creditor rep and go after their entitlements from Messrs Krda Mentha, who betwen then have been living off the fat of your land.:mad: :mad: and look like doing so until you are all too old to care.:{

[Mobi LAME]

Many many moons ago I can remember when a Sydney Ansett LAME had a win against the Tax Man about transportation of tools of trade. In the final days of the fight when the ATO had almost given up the fight a certain person in Melbourne tried to climb on the victory wagon and gain some of the glory. This person was doing some tax work on the side when he wasn't deferring cabin lighting defects and the rumour went about that those who he did work for got their fingers severely burnt by the ATO. Hope the new airline is run better, you won't see this little black duck signing onboard.

[Richard Kranium]

There will be no corpse springing back to life, unless they are the same aeroplanes and people with Ansett Australia painted on the side, that's not going to happen.

If Gold gets up then its a new airline, and it will have an access to many great loyal and talented employees that Ansett had, that would love to work for an airline that are now being denied an opportunity with the incumbents because bias, prejudice, and xenophobia.

Messiuers Korda Mentha will milk the Ansett collapse for all they can, it comes in the same way as what Kerry Packer said about Alan Bond when he bought the 9 network back from him and said that someone like Mr. Bond comes along once in a life time...I would say that Ansett is seen in the same way to the 2 Marks.

As for attacking personalities, there will be no doubt that certain personalities did not get on with others, through time have found certain people I did not like, and yet others that I thought would think like me had to my surprise did, and see these people in a different light and liked them...so go figure??...:confused:

[Mobi LAME]

In regard to the 2 Marks don't listen to what is said here, type Ansett Supreme Court into Google and 90% of the proceedings, applications, etc about the 'pooling arrangements' can be downloaded or read. Even the government is supporting it.

[Escape_Slide]

You guys see this? http://goldairways.proboards80.com

They've got their own forum site.

[Apophis]

no aircraft no equipment no staff no base
= NO FRIGGIN AIRLINE

[inthefluffystuff]

Apophis

Keep trying mate someone will listen, you are very on the mark a complete NUTTER and am amused that the attention that he has generated,have talked to and listened to this person and if anyone does this and cannot come to a conclusion look out bolt the wallet down and RUN.

[Apophis]

yes some of these people need to get real it will never happen.

[Richard Kranium]

How can you be so sure???....:hmm:

[Apophis]

what planet are you on ?

[Richard Kranium]

Well Apophis...you are obviously well employed by QF or VB and don't want to have your position eroded in any way, I guess its easy to say that it will never happen but if it does, then I suppose you will have egg all over your face....you have to learn to never say never....I suppose you have not been in this industry long enough to experience for yourself that what seemed to be never possible...happened....:ugh:

[Apophis]

the guy has no friggin money and no planes or equipment any one can set set up a web site and advertise for staff for something that does not exist christ this bloke used to work on the floor at forstaff avalon with all us other plebs on the floor he is just f*&^ing dreaming and if anyone is waiting for a reply to there resume sent to him better not hold there breath you would have more chance with this mob getting of the ground. www.lynxjet.com

[Wizofoz]

RK,

Give me a start date. There's $10 (actually about £4) says it won't happen!!

[Richard Kranium]

Ok mate....you have got your maths right...but whats it to you if it doesn't....

[Escape_Slide]

Guys, guys, guys.... don't swallow all this bull**t, the airline is about to a massive cash injection. Fu**k, VB should worry.

[Yorick Hunt]

Oh yeah!!!...a big cash injection, who is about to do that.

Geez, they still need to get an AOC, aeroplanes and terminal space, but then anything is possible.

I too have seen the nahhh... thats impossible, then to turn out...holy s**t, how could that ever happen.

So I wish them well, and lets go for Gold, as that's what the Aussies will be doing at the Commonwealth Games. :rolleyes:

[Apophis]

What a raft of crap !

[Pass-A-Frozo]

who airlines?

Although stranger things have happened :
the guy has no friggin money and no planes or equipment

Sounds like Bill Gates when he went into a meeting with IBM. Came out with a contract to provide them with an operating system for their "Microcomputers" - IBM agreed because they thought the real money was in the hardware.

Bill Gates' mates said "Bill, how could you agree to that, we don't have an operating system".

Off goes Bill - buys an operating system off some guy for $30,000US [The guy at the time thought all his Christmas' had come at once!]... Here we are today. That operating system was good old MS-DOS - and it's the underlying system below Windows.

Anyway.. what's the point. Never say never.. you never know when some little nerdy guy with glasses will sign a deal and make a billion or 50.

[gaunty]

Pass-A-Frozo interesting idea but wrong analogy, Gates and IBM were at the front of a yet to be invented greenfields industry, the dead set frontier. :ok:

The airline business is simply an extension of the old passenger shipping business, several centuries old, what you could call a very mature business.

If you follow the history of Atlantic passengers ships, you will see almost exactly the same evolutions, characters and results. Always pushing the technological boundaries and leaving the past behind.

Then as now, you either commit much dollaro for new fleet or chance your arm with the old technology. The results are now equally predictable from the lessons of the past.:eek:

[Pass-A-Frozo]

Agree - I'll accept being corrected. That's a very good point you make there. To quote a good friend of mine when he hears something he thinks is right "You know stuff!"

True - although the person with a "break through" idea is always the first. No-one saw it before :)

[Escape_Slide]

I reckon though there's a fair chance this mob might be a goer because apparently they are going to be the preferred carrier for the 2nd next comonwealth games. If that's the case, Australia has to surely be pushing it to grow pretty quickly.

You'd think though that they would be in the press by now but you never know if middle east money is involved the press will be the last to know.

[gaunty]

Pass-A-Frozo

If you see this book anywhere, it's in Dymocks or A & R, I can recommend it as a riveting :rolleyes: read

The Ocean Railway: Isambard Kingdom Brunel, Samuel Cunard and the Great Atlantic Steamships (Hardcover)
by Stephen R. Fox

You will see that the airline system ran down almost exactly the same set of tracks, with the same characters, different names to be sure but they are there, including the people we discuss here.

Don't get me wrong, I am one of the most forward thinking persons you will meet, but neither can I see the point in ignoring the lessons of the past.

There are some hard won lessons in the above book, that are as true to day as they were then.

[Wizofoz]

apparently they are going to be the preferred carrier for the 2nd next comonwealth games.

And where exactley did that gem come from? A "carrier" that does not yet exist given "Prefered" status for the games? By who?

You really are going to have to back that one up with some facts!!

[Escape_Slide]

Came from the recruitment guy. Not that you believe everything they say but 2007 was a date mentioned. Ah what the fu**k anyway. Melbourne needs a decent airline.