Military Experience for Airlines???

[plane of motion]

Just wanted to throw it out there to anyone who wants to give me some gouge:

I have: a couple of years of ROSO, 1000 hours F/A-18 time, Instructor Qualification.

I dont have: experience in aircraft with crew of more than two, multiengine time (apart from Hornet which is not really assymetric when one fails)

How competitive am I for an Airline job??
(I have heard greatly varying opinions on this)

How much more competitive would I be if I was flying a C-130?? (for example)

What are the big ticket obstacles that I have to overcome before I start talking to QANTAS??
I have heard the goal posts have shifted for the ATPL now, how will this make it harder for me?

[HSWL]

What wonderful flying experience. There are hundreds of pilots out in GA and the Regionals who would give anything to be in your shoes. The scan rate for your instrument flying in a Hornet is first class practice for any big jet that you will eventually get your hands on.

First things first - knock over the ATPL subjects as quick as you can and get the licence. You will have to accept that some operators will be envious of your experience and will knock you back on principle with the feeble excuse that you lack civil light twin time. Been there done that when I tried to get an MU2 job after being retrenched from flying 737's. The CP told me that ex RAAF and ex airline pilots would not fit into his culture. He meant dodgy maintenance and cutting corners, of course.

You will have to rely on being perceived as a nice guy in any interview. There will always be a traditional, although very much misguided, bias against civilian employment of ex RAAF fighter pilots. It is a sick form of professional envy and is prevalent both in UK as well as Australia. The steriotype Spifire pilot image from the war films was responsible for that - again quite erroneously of course.

A good airline will welcome you. For example, Dragonair in Hong Kong. Scatter your CV around and something will eventually come your way. Best of luck and half your luck for that Hornet experience but get that ATPL

[Capn Bloggs]

If you want to fly a desk for the rest of your life, stay where you are!:eek:

I have seen good civilian knuckleheads, bad civilian knuckleheads, good trash-haulers and bad trash-haulers. I have seen an equal number of bad two-crew civiies: let's face it, most civies are single pilots until they get the job you're trying to get, so they don't have any advantage over you. In fact, depending on their proffesionalism/slackness, you will be streets ahead of them!

It's all about attitude, not whether you have got multi-crew experience. You will be able to fly (I use that term loosely these days: more like button-pushing) AT LEAST as well as any civvie, so don't let that stop you.

Most companies employ someone to be a captain (after suitable time in RHS) ie one that will do the job properly from a rule-complying POV, but most importantly, has the brains and skill to not get behind the eight-ball and prang the aeroplane/allow it to be pranged by FO when the pressure comes on.

So, the message is, go for it. There's probably a course or two around about airline familiarisation/interview technique etc that will help you understand what's invovled so you can impress them at the interview.

[F/O Bloggs]

POM,

As a former RAAFie and QFI I fully concur with Capn Bloggs sentiments. Whether you flew a hornet or Bou in the RAAF makes no real difference in your suitablilty for airline selection. What does count is your motivation, persistence and personality. Different airlines will have different views wrt military guys but they are just generalisations. Like Cap said, there are bad candidates from both sides of the fence.
Start applying now and best of luck.

(At least you have twin time not like those useless single engine Mirage pilots ;) ;) )

[Capn Bloggs]

:( :mad: :eek: :} :* :zzz: :{ :ugh:

[OhForSure]

First and foremost: are you willing to work overseas? What type of airline would you like to work for?

At this point Virgin Blue are not hiring in great numbers and it seems to me (open to corrections) that they seem to like hiring bush pilots over others.

Jetstar are hiring and will be for the foreseeable future. It most certainly seems as if Aussie carriers are moving more and more towards BYO type rating which is discuraging many good pilots from joining, and allowing many other pilots the chance to move in above them.

If you are willing to work overseas, you will find that Cathay Pacific, Dragon Air, Air New Zealand and other majors will look quite favorably on a pilot who has proven that he/she can handle high demand, rapidly changing environments with a sense of regularity. Obviously a fast jet pilot can (or at least SHOULD be able to) do this easily. These aforementioned carriers are full of expat pilots and are known to have very pleasent working environments.

Since you mentioned Qantas, I'm assuming that they are an obvious target for you. I personally believe you have an excellent chance depending on your personality. Qantas are looking for a certain type of person: one who stands out, but doesn't draw to much attention... a natural leader, yet a good team player. More than anything they want to see that you're a good guy. They need to put another three people in the cockpit with you for a 15 plus hour flight accross the Pacific. Obviously they don't wanna hire dickheads that aren't gonna get along with anyone. Qantas have hired people with hardly any twin time in the past and will continue to in the future... they don't do this in large numbers but they still do. So that puts you well ahead of them. The bottom line is: you stand as good if not a better chance than anyone else out there. It just depends on where you are willing to work.

Do a search here on Qantas and the other airlines mentioned and their hiring techniques and you'll get an idea of what to expect... also just spend a bit of time on this site, and you'll get some good advise (and get to know some real assholes too!!!) HaHa.

Best of luck. Doubt you'll need it though.

ForSure

[Keg]

PoM, a lot of the skippers that I fly with (and a few of the S/Os from time to time) are ex-knucks. Some of them only had Mirage and/or Hornet time. It didn't hold them back from jobs in the late '80s or anytime since!

I assume that you're a RAAFie so contact with Hosko (who I think only finished his reserve work about the middle of last year) would answer some of your questions. Hornet driver, SQNLDR FCI with 2OCU (I think) when he finished and a nice bloke to boot! ;) I reckon they'd still have his contact details at WLM.

[Gnadenburg]

p of m

Thought about an instructing contract in Saudi or Kuwait?;)

[Feather Boa]

Plane of motion

Stick with trying to enter QANTAS, Dragonair on paper is very appealing, however it is a small airline full of managers trying to reinvent the wheel.

Dont leave home (be it Aust, NZ, Canada, Uk or Europe) unless you really have to.

Fx

[DutchRoll]

P.O.M.- FO Bloggs is quite right. As an ex-trashie, I can assure you there is no particular advantage during the recruitment process. It does give you some advantage doing the ATPL, as that is geared towards that type of aircraft operation, performance, systems, etc, etc. Trashies may also get a small advantage on the conversion due to having always flown a similar style of operations with performance consids etc, but it's all academic in the end.

Perceived bias for/against knucks, military and what-have-you is exactly that these days - perceived. The current pilot recruitment management are very even-handed, and recruitment of different 'flavours' of pilots pretty much matches the respective percentages of applicants. If you fail the interview its probably because you stuffed it up, not because you're a knuck!

Do the Len Sales ATPL course for miltary pilots if you can. Oh, and I second those remarks about bloody mirage pilots! ;)

Edit: These comments apply only to QF at the moment. Can't speak for the rest I'm afraid.

[Capn Bloggs]

:( :mad: :eek: :} :* :zzz: :{ :ugh: X 2!!!

[frangatang]

Just hope you are not a whinging winco,very much prevalent in BA
and if its a seniority based airline you dont start the ,Ldeserve to be much higher up the list than thee cos lve been upside down etc. The truckers (c130) are much more down to earth and dont have the vicelike handshake at checkin like the fighter jocks,for some reason! Virgin atlantic is just about controlled by the harrier mafia these days,particularly at recruitment.

[Selac66]

Two bits of advice;

1. Despite having two years of ROSO to burn, get an application in to start a file. This is handy when you are selling your long standing desire to fly for Q.

2. Never arm-wrestle Meat.

[plane of motion]

To all

Thanks for your replies, I am suprised at how much good info I have recieved.

Selac66: Thanks for the gouge about Meat, I will take that onboard.

[4Greens]

Remember you start in QF as a Second Officer, ie non landee etc. Some ex Military have difficulty adjusting to this. It may determine your choice of airline.