Cape Town Runway closed again - the debacle continues [Archive]

Gunship

14th Apr 2005, 07:01

Maybe Cape Town Mayor must worry more about this incident than immigration officers doing their job :EBy Sipokhazi Maposa

Aircraft heading into Cape Town International Airport were forced to circle the city for about 90 minutes after the runway lights went out on Tuesday night.

The power failure occurred between 6.30pm and 8pm. Anxious friends and relatives milled around in the lounges waiting for their loved ones to land.

Some aircraft were diverted to George or Port Elizabeth, and some even flew back to Johannesburg. All the flights due eventually landed some hours later.

Airports Company of South Africa spokesperson Deidre Hendricks could not confirm how many flights were delayed by the power failure, but one caller to the Cape Argus said he counted seven planes circling the airport at one stage.

Hendricks said only the incoming flights were affected by what she described as "an electrical fault".

"At 8pm we were fully operational. No departing flights were affected. Only incoming flights were delayed.

"We still don't know what caused the power failure... we are currently investigating to confirm the cause."

Hendricks said as far as she knew this was the first time the airport had experienced a problem of this kind.

But another Acsa employee said in the past large dune moles had chewed through underground cables. It was also unclear why back-up generators had not kicked in when the electricity failed.
From the Argus

Solid Rust Twotter

14th Apr 2005, 08:54

You mean the back up gennies supplying power at the Zagga Nagga Shebeen?:E

Not the first time either. A hospital in Gauteng had no backup gennies as they'd all been sold...:ooh: Hope that's not the case here....

tired

14th Apr 2005, 22:59

Well, if them dang moles done chewed through the cables, then it don't matter how many back-up gennies you have, do it?!! :)

And if it was dem moles, they musta looked like well-done boerewoers afterwards. ;)

Gunship

15th Apr 2005, 07:42

So is it the offiical version ?

Moles ? (It will not surprise me at all - they are damagaing little brats)

TMAguide

15th Apr 2005, 08:15

It was a planned cut of power with "no effect to operations"......sound familiar? ;)
I am sure it made the parking lot a sight to see.....

Gunship

15th Apr 2005, 08:32

Sad to hear the "Planned power cut " did not work according to plan.

But you guys know what. I have travelled a bit and I tell you for it's size the CT International (incl the NEW parking area) must rate as the best in the business.

I am a proud Saffer when I walk in / out of there - notwithstanding my serious concerns re security etc ...

Yes ... Bert I am serious - it is a nice piece of airport.

Shoot me down I will stand by that.

Cheers

TMAguide

15th Apr 2005, 21:13

What ya know?:zzz: The rwy was clsd again...wasn 't the moles this time...twas the ass end of a MD82.... after the "car sized" ass end (that fell off on landing)was removed from the rwy, oil,nuts and bolts contaminated the rwy, luckly only one diversion....couple of holds though..touch wood it happened on landing...who knows.."NEXT TIME"?

Gunship

15th Apr 2005, 21:20

Huh ? A MD 82 broken up his tail on landing ?

Which airline mate ?

126,7

15th Apr 2005, 21:20

What happened and who's MD80 was it? Did they have a tail strike on landing? More info please!!!

Gunship

15th Apr 2005, 21:23

Eisch 126,7 .. small minds think alike or what do they say again .. ;)

TMAguide

15th Apr 2005, 21:24

One time....next time

Gunship

15th Apr 2005, 21:26

Eischh .. everybody ok at least ?

What a bummer ..

TMAguide

15th Apr 2005, 21:29

don't think the passengers even knew what happened...the rest inbound did though... saw a lot of Wolsley and Robin Isl....

126,7

15th Apr 2005, 21:31

But TMA dude isn't too forthcomming with info either. What happened? Were they flying like cowboys or what? Tailstrike? Or just a very hard landing? Have seen videos of a DC9 doing a hard landing and the tail breaking off on account of it.

Gunship

15th Apr 2005, 21:34

surely you guys could have put them in the hold over a more scenic area like Vredenburg or Woester ekse ;)

TMAguide

15th Apr 2005, 21:35

126.7.... .. as far as I know it wasn't hard landing (????) I really don't know what happened.....time s'pose will tell....
:confused:

G Ship.... hot day like today... clifton woulda been a better hold....

Gunship

15th Apr 2005, 21:42

On Clifton there would be something else I would like to hold mate (except a cold beer) ;)

TMAguide

15th Apr 2005, 21:43

and what would his name be ? :D

joking g ship.......

maybe u okes are wiser....but how the hell did that part of the MD82 stay attached til touch down....?:confused:

maybe u okes are wiser....but how the hell did that part of the MD82 stay attached til touch down....?:confused:

Gunship

15th Apr 2005, 21:49

We hoped you have all the answers mate ;)

TMAguide

15th Apr 2005, 21:57

Hopefully our learned friends will fill in the missing spaces tomorrow ( after they have completed all their paperwork!!)

:D

lekker slaap
:ok:

Gunship

15th Apr 2005, 21:58

I checked all the online newspapers ... niks not even Die Burger has a thing on it ... as you say till tommorrow mate.

Goeie nag en lekker slaap :ok:

Gunship

16th Apr 2005, 07:41

TMAGuide from witch pub did you see dese fireworks mate ?

Nothing on any news ? :p

APR

16th Apr 2005, 09:18

Read in the paper that it was 1Time.

I also heard that 1Time went off the runway at ELS recently! Anybody in the know about that?

Another rumour I heard was that a Nationwide flight nearly ended in disaster after landing on a wet runway with a 20 knot tailwind, also in ELS. Apparently it happened around the time when there was only 1 ILS working. So it must have been about 2-3 months ago.

Gunship

16th Apr 2005, 09:20

Sorry TMA - I was sober last night and this morning ...

Did the tail moer af on landing or just a small part of it ?

Call me dof :E

josh sitanga

16th Apr 2005, 09:29

Just chatted to a 1Time Engineer at JHB International.

What Hoggwash! The aircraft (MD 82) belongs to 1Time and is currently parked outside the hangar at JHB International with its tail off. It was NOT involved in any form of accident/incident. The aircraft is undergoing a normal, periodic C Check inspection and upon the inspection, the engineers discovered some corrosion, and removed several parts, including the tail section in order to remedy the problem.

The whole world would have known if the tail of any airpplane fell off on landing, no matter where in the world. Firstly its an immediate reportable incident as it would have been classified as a major structural failure. The CAA, the FAA and the manufacturers would get involved, and surely the newspaper spies would have been all over it like a rash.

So if the alledged incident happened at CPT, why is the aircraft not at CPT, but parked outside the hangar at JHB Int?

My guess is that some dude saw it with its tail off at JHB International and posted it on the pprune. Come on guys, get serious! Or maybe the "poster" is in the employ of the opposition?;) :ok: Don't scare those loyal 1Timeist now! By the way, does the green cow carrier also not fly MD's?

TMAguide

16th Apr 2005, 09:45

:) Perhaps it was an illuision...but the "tail cone" (the back piece) came off....oil and bolts contaminated the rwy....which was clsd...caused 2 diversions....many holds...ATC incidents where filed....but hey....maybe my whiskey was stonger than expected....:p

josh....not employed by opposition...I am a BIG fan of low cost airlines....have a mate who is a captain at 1time.....:ok:

Gun....the whishkey was good for me last nite.....wasn\'t whole tail that came off....I understand twas the "cone?" at the rear....

Gunship

16th Apr 2005, 09:51

Josk mate I happen to know TMA and he is a guide dog in disguise - so no worries mate - although he loves the well known brands and that made me worried last night.

I see REAL ORCA is online ... let's hear it from my old friends mouth (and the opposition)

hey it is a rumour network after all :E

Cheers out to the pool for a swim .. 34 Degrees and climbing :cool:

josh sitanga

16th Apr 2005, 09:54

TMAguide, nothing so serious will allow an aircraft to depart again for JHB from CPT, should your observation have been the case or correct. The engineer assured me that nothing, and I mean nothing, was wrong with the aircraft and what they're doing to it now, is purely routine.

I'll ask my mates down in CPT to check with ATC what caused the runway closure (if any) but alledgedly it was not the MD82.

Goldfish Jack, where are you my man? Got any news?

TMAguide

16th Apr 2005, 09:56

Please do Josh.....I love appologies!!:D

I would also like to know exactly what came off.....

Gunship

16th Apr 2005, 09:57

Me think TMAguide is old Fat GoldFish's boss ;)

TMAguide

16th Apr 2005, 09:59

Saturday CAPE ARGUS.........

Part falls off jet
April 16, 2005

By Staff Reporter

An aircraft coming in to land at Cape Town International Airport yesterday lost a part which fell off and hit the runway. The Onetime Airlines aeroplane landed safely but several other flights were delayed while staff cleaned debris from the runway.

Attempts to find out exactly what part of the aircraft had fallen off were unsuccessful. The airlines was investigating the incident.

http://capeargus.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=1367&fArticleId=2484461

TMA 1.....Josh 0
:D :D :D

josh sitanga

16th Apr 2005, 10:07

TMAguide no worries and well done with your search in the Argus. At least now ol Gunzzzz can't blame you for having tooo much of the good stuff!

How is the wx and the "head" this morning in good 'ol CPT? During my odd visits to CPT, I have noticed that the ATC there are trying hard to be efficient, though sometimes they are not. They stress a lot I've noticed. 5 airplanes on the approach, and the guys take strain!

I see in the SA Newspapers that the Police and the public prosecutors are now drinking more due to work stress and that has resulted in a lot of problems like amnesia, insomnia, irritability and in some cases even loss of libido and infertility. Man, I hope that you CPT ATC guys will not suffer that way as well due to work stress. Infertility is a big problem my man! How will my brothers be able to pro-create if they're put under such stress? Come on Thabo, don't let my brothers suffer so much. we NEED to keep Azania populated! Viva!:ok:;)

TMAguide

16th Apr 2005, 10:14

you gotta understand...its a stressful job Josh.....we gotta keep worring about where we gonna get the next bottle from coz we ain't gonna get 'any' anyway....:D

I've worked a few places...and like with everything...you get all types....some ATC's can be extremely busy with 2 planes....others seem cool and collected but have a turtle head protruding....its one proffession with many characters.... (some that can't spell too....)
:)

head hurts a little today...CT lekker wx...off to rugby later....GO STORMERS....

Goldfish Jack

16th Apr 2005, 11:04

Hey Josh what u drink??

SPoke to my colleagues and it was a red MD82 at Cape Town - they saw it actually come off. It is designed to come off quite easily as it is part of the emergency exit system at the back of the aircraft. Dont ask me how it works but luckily no-one was injured and after a few delays things got back to normal.

So we take strain with 5 aircraft. mmm like some pilots who take strain when met observce 1/8 cloud at FL400 and they want to divert around it. Just remember we are all human beings and it takes time to build up experience - maybe a new controller on the job when you last arrived in the Cape. now about student pilots, if you want to think that you are all experts and expect the same service level from each and all ATCs. No-one is perfect and we are all trying our best.

Hey TMAguide - hope the stormsers win - hell enough pilot bulls have sent me SMSs. I dont need reminding........

Guns - saw the friendly whale during the week - he is well fat and fat and full of fun. Had a drink or two with him and Sker and he is also well and sends regards

GFJ

Goldfish Jack

16th Apr 2005, 11:09

Planned power cut as TMAguide says...........

Why do they wait until the busiest part of the day to do this work and not at 0400am like they should. Did n't want to spend money on overtime, so now they got a bill of note from the airlines to claim back the fuel wasted, etc etc

RESULT: The airlines now getting together to tell ACSA when they can do their maint work.

Gunship

16th Apr 2005, 11:15

Hey GFJ - good to hear from you matey :ok: I knew I will get you out of bed calling you a fatty :p :p :p

Pse send me sker's contact details mate - we have a reunion coming up :ok:

Wel done TMA ... 1-0 to you :ok:

Gunship

16th Apr 2005, 11:17

Has it got to do with the company doing construction there ?

I know the MD very well.

ANVAK

16th Apr 2005, 11:22

Yes it was the 1-Time MD-82 and it was a rather strange sight to see it pull into the bay next to us minus the tail cone. Even funnier were all the technical types standing around scratching their heads, watching the cone arrive from the runway on the back of a bakkie. Rather reminded me of that old poster with the train off the bridge and the subscript reading "Oh s..."
Runways were both closed for a while, one SAA -800 came close to diverting but 19 was reopened just in time.
They must have taped the tail cone back, later last night when we got back to CT the a/c was gone.

Goldfish Jack

17th Apr 2005, 04:36

We have been informed by ACSA that THEIR ILS (yes ACSA owns it - we do not) on runway 01 is UNSERV UFN!!!!

Dont ask us what the problem is, but the weather is achanging and we are entering the FOG season. Isn't it amazing that these things break when we need it most!

They have also told us that it will be u/s UFN. We expect it to be returned to service about 30secs after the first intercontinental longhaul diverts one morning to FAJS due to no ILS at FACT!

Please do not direct your anger at my colleagues but rather at ACSA and they can be contacted via VHF 122,65 (aka APRON office). We really have no idea what is wrong and how long it will be off. In the meantime you can get the VOR/DME plate out and expect radar vectors to that approach ( even better ask for a visual approach - much easier)

Seriously though, the time has come for someone at ACSA to be accountable for all the ':mad:'-ups recently at Cape Town International. How they can win awards and they have no reliabe ILS and no reliable runway lighting system...............

Oh well I suppose it is Africa....................... Time for IFALPA to get involved and start blacklisting the airfield. It is sorely needed.

ATNS goes to great expense to upgrade their equipment to handle the anticipated increase in traffic and all ACSA does is ensure that nothing is reliabe and works properly (or even better at all!!)

We are trying but we need your help out there to put pressure on ACSA to come to the party........

Solid Rust Twotter

17th Apr 2005, 06:27

There's a post on the Avcom forum regarding ACSA but I don't think it specifically mentions this problem at FACT..... yet.

Agree with you about that. They spend piles of our money making sure the duty free shops are in a position to make money from the passengers, without giving any thought to the fact that passengers won't be frequenting those businesses if they can't get to FACT.:rolleyes:

Bet you the fees haven't changed to reflect lack of service....

Gunship

17th Apr 2005, 08:17

Well hopefully the newspapers get into their act and report on something worthwhile again ...

Forget about the killings in the cape flats - it 's been there for many decades and will not easily go away .. focus on stuff like this and let the wordl know how ACSA are :mad: up !

An accident waiting to happen ... (sadly)

:ugh:

Herc130

17th Apr 2005, 09:01

Goldfish,

Did ACSA give a snag sheet on the ILS defects or is it not maybe that the intrepid CAA has not calibrated it in the last 6 months?

I understand that the Citation used for calibration is slightly bent and can't do the job.:rolleyes:

ASD

17th Apr 2005, 15:05

Nope, ILS calibrations for both RWY 19 and Rwy 01 were done about 1 week ago!

Gunship

17th Apr 2005, 15:13

Now that relevation put's another spoke out of place on the wheel ... :E

ASD

17th Apr 2005, 22:40

Tail cone debris on runway delays flights
April 17, 2005

By Igsaan Salie

Cape Town International Airport flights were delayed for about 90 minutes on Friday night when a tail cone covering on a 1Time Airlines plane fell off and hit the runway on landing.

The 157-seater MB82 aircraft from Johannesburg landed safely but airport staff had to clear the runway of debris. Rodney James, director of marketing and operations at 1Time, said the fibreglass tailcone covering the back of the aircraft had fallen off as the jet aircraft came in to land.

He said the cone covered the rear emergency exit of the aircraft and was not a structural feature.

"It is an aerodynamic thing and neither the crew nor the passengers were even aware that it had come off," he said.

The cone is fitted with a clamping mechanism which attaches it to the plane and can be manually released to expose the emergency exit door if it is needed.
James said the airline was investigating whether the cone was accidentally released by the crew or had come loose. A new tail cone has since been fitted.

mutt

18th Apr 2005, 04:57

The MD series of aircraft has a detachable tailcone aft of the cabin rear exit door. This is to be used in the event of an emergency landing where the tail steps cannot be lowered. This isnt the first time that one of these tailcones has fallen off and i guess that it wont be the last!

Mutt.

jb1007

18th Apr 2005, 06:07

How can I get pictures of 1 Time's fallen arse on to the forum?

I got a few "not so good quality" pics from a cell of a friend.

He said that It looked like a emgcy release handle on the l/h side of the tail cone were pulled...as it was hanging out when the a/craft was parked.

Regards,

jb1007

Goldfish Jack

18th Apr 2005, 07:02

Hey Guns - nothing wrong with ZSCAR

They were calibrating last week when the ILS went womky and they (CAA) turned it off - safety factors involved.

We have asked ACSA to order the parts since last August and they did not want to spend the money - now they are goint to spend money as some of the parts they ordered are wrong. They still have not managed to find the fault - now they are going further into it and it is going to cost megabcks to fix - then it has to be re-commissioned and that is going to take ages.

So when winter comes to Cape Town brings lots of fuel and get ready for flow management - and dont blame us - blame ACSA

Regards

ps ACSA stands for ASSOCIATION OF COMPLETELY STUPID ":MAD:"HOLES

TMAguide

18th Apr 2005, 07:09

Right click and paste!:)

AfricanQueen

18th Apr 2005, 07:29

It is once again time for us pilots to fill in IFALPA deficiency reports - as Goldfish mentioned, it is time for IFALPA to get involved in the deficiencies in this country. Please fill in these forms, for all deficiencies in South Africa (a lot of folks only believe these reports are only for our neighbouring countries) and I assure you IFALPA will get involved!

jb1007

18th Apr 2005, 07:59

It doesn't allow me to "paste"....what settings do I have to change?

EX-ATC

18th Apr 2005, 11:36

GFJ

Q: Who is responsible for the maintenance on the ACSA owned ILSs?
A: ATNS, I believe

Why is it that ATNS has a service contract with a third party company to do D-level maintenance and to supply spares if the 3rd party has no agreement with the OEM for that specific equipment ito turn around times, technical support and spares?

I also believe that the 3rd party company has nobody trained on your specific equipment? What is the safety factor. Maybe the CAA is looking after safty issues after all. Will you allow your wife to take you to the Vet for heart surgery? After all they are both called dr?

Fishy indeed!

TMAguide

18th Apr 2005, 13:30

sorry...my mistake...ya can't...its a forum rule:confused: :eek:

flutter by

21st Apr 2005, 12:50

http://mysite.mweb.co.za/residents/hendrickdt/avatar5149_4.gif

Oi off course u can post a pic:E :ok:

EX-ATC

23rd Apr 2005, 04:52

GFJ

I believe your ILS is back on the air? Kindly confirm. Rumour has it that the controllers in CT are stopping the technical guys from performing the daily ILS checks that needs to be performed on a Cat III ILS i.e taking an ILS test set and to check the centerline signal in space. IF true then I believe ATNS is to blame for the quality of signal in space and not the ACSA as they only paid for the system.

ATNS stands for: All Talk NO Service

Goldfish Jack

28th Apr 2005, 06:55

Hey EX ATC glad you left us - firstly the present ILS's allow for daily checks to be done on-line, not like the ILS's you used in the 1970s. so they do them and it has no impace on any operations whatsoever.

ATNS might be responsible for the servicing - you got that right, at least, but if you don't buy the parts how can you fix a broken system??

Maybe your wife should take you to the vet for an attitude and correct information operation

You will be pleased to know that my ILS is not back in service - I dont and never have and never intend to own an ILS - I dont even have an airfield to put it on, however the ILS at Cape Town is back in service.

Gunship

28th Apr 2005, 08:40

he he he fishbowl... getting a tad stroppy there with your old colluege in arms mate :E

give him hell.

PS: Sorry to ask but what happend to "George Tower" - think that was his addy - been a long time hey ?

Does he also take cebatiicals like me ? spelling ? :p

EX-ATC

28th Apr 2005, 12:53

GFJ

Chill out !! At least we did things by the book. I'm glad to see that the attitude of the controller is always right is still alive and well. I surely hope your knowledge on contolling procedures and the SSIs are better than your knowledge on Navaids and ICAO rules.

Yes, the Thales series of equipment can do the checks via the RMMS as installed in CT by using the farfield monitor that's installed on the aerodrome, but the requirement from ICAO cleary stipulates that you need to do daily runway CL checks in order to confirm that your monitors are correct. If you don't do that, how will you confirm if your monitor is still accurate. Get ATNS HQ to send you the ICAO requirements as incorporated into the ATNS document asap. Maybe to include it as part of the CT SSIs (Not to be personal but maybe some of the junior ATCs can learn something that can enhance their already superior knowledge of the bigger aviation picture)

Rumour has it that the monitor parameters were adjusted (wider)after the first flight calibration in order to try and stop the system from switching off as a result of the technical problem.

If you don't understand the phrase of going to the vet for heart surgery in the right context, please don't show your stupidity on the net.

The question still is WHY ATNS HAVE A MAINTENANCE CONTRACT WITH A THIRD PARTY CPY THAT'S NOT EVEN QUALIFIED TO WORK ON THE SYSTEM (none of their personnel are trained on the system) AND HAS NO AGREEMENT IN PLACE WITH THE EQUIPMENT MANUFACTURER IN ORDER TO GET SPARES AND TECHNICAL SUPPORT WHEN NEEDED???? - MAYBE ITS JUST A RUMOUR.

I don't expect you to have the answers since you are just a shift worker for ATNS.

TMAguide

28th Apr 2005, 19:18

I don't expect you to have the answers since you are just a shift worker for ATNS.

GFJ.....at least ur not an "EX"....you can still do the job....bit more challenging than a tiger moth or two...back in the day when ATC's were wannabe or washout pilots...

Hey Guns....:ok:

Gunship

28th Apr 2005, 23:46

Oh my ... GF Big Bowl is gonna wake up with a .. ... guys give him a break .. he had a hard day today and maybe (again) not had it all.

Look fwd to the replies when I wake up tomorrow ... Eischhh good Saffer wine in West Africa is topzzzzzz :hmm: :hmm: :hmm:

Dr Know

29th Apr 2005, 17:06

Hay.. I learned a few new buzzwords today. Impressive stuff, now won't you two kiss and make out so that whoever is responsible/accountable and whatever..able can get on with his job of fixing the ruddy ILS thing that’s not working.

I just like a peaceful ending......
:ok:

contraxdog

30th Apr 2005, 09:56

Hey you guys, this is turning into a acid p#$$#ng contest.
Could the two of you please tell me and other stupid readers why the two of you have this contest without us?
If I understand this correctly.
0. ILS was checked and found not within limits, thus turned off so now....
1.ILS is u/s
2.Nobody is fixing it
3.Sombody is getting paid to fix it but cannot.
4 The fixer is still getting paid?
5. Even if they could fix it, they wouldnt be able to fix it because there arent any spares?
6.The needed spares still need to get ordered.
7.The owner doesnt want to fix it, because he has a contract with someone that is suppose to fix it.
8.The operater doesnt want to fix it because its not his, disregarding the fact that he is still charging his clients for using it, all though they cannot because its u/s?

Did I get it right?
If so, my advice would be to charge the client more, because its their fault, because they used it up. Give every one Xmas bonuses because there is extra money coming in. Then fire all the comptant staff because they make the incompetant staff look bad. Hire more incomptant staff to make the remaining staff look good. etc etc etc.

FIX THE BLOODY THING.

You need our help ask for it! You want us to put pressure on someone, e-mail fire and brimstone to some one. Tell the Beeld, the Citizen and other independent news sources like BBC,or IOL, ask us. We might be willing to help, because of all the parties involved its us the users that need it most.

Tell me how I can help.

Your willing and paying,
e-terrorist extrodinaire,
contraxdog

"the time has come the walrus said to speak of many things, of pirate ships and sealing wax, and cabbages and kings..."

TMAguide

30th Apr 2005, 10:17

Contrax:D :D :D :ok:

Exhaust Manifold

30th Apr 2005, 11:30

Well ATNS does have the money to fix the ILS, seen that they are charging us an arm and a leg! :hmm:

Gunship

30th Apr 2005, 17:18

Mhhhh the two ATC's having an acid pi$$ing contest.

Contraxdog - You have not told the forum that we are sharing a room tomorrow night on a beach house ... so what contest will we provide :E

PS: Loaded with cold SA wine, headache tab's and of course Essentiale :ok: awaiting your arrival in constipation ;)

captain cumulonimbus

27th Nov 2005, 10:40

Heard this on 702 news at 1PM...

3 hour delays out of FAJS for CT bound flights due damage to the runway(19 i presume) at FACT caused by a Malaysia Airlines 744 on departure this morning.

Any info on what precisely happened? If its a tailstike,its certainly not MH's first one!

Cheers.Cb

Christo

27th Nov 2005, 11:27

Also heard in it on 702. I see on another forum the damage is a 5x6m hole in the runway :ooh: :ooh:

que

27th Nov 2005, 12:29

Yip absoultely chaos at FACT the pothole is at the intersection of 01/19 and 36/14 so only accepting departures from intersection.
Not sure what caused it but went to ACSA flight information website and all you see is indefinate delays all over the place!Most flights that were enroute diverted to FAGG till that was full!
Intersting to see what happens
.
que

newcrew

27th Nov 2005, 14:11

Malaysia Airlines 744

no tailscrape

big piece of runway removed by jet blast from departing Malaysia Airlines 744

que

27th Nov 2005, 14:33

Well FACT is starting to go back to normal, fixed the pothole, bit of a backlog of traffic!

que

BAKELA

27th Nov 2005, 14:44

And as usual ACSA blames everybody except ACSA...(according to 702)...Malaysian in this case and I qoute from a previous posting "big piece of runway removed by jet blast from departing Malaysia Airlines". Was the runway surface not up to scratch or what? Surely FACT can handle the 744!..or can it with maintenance standards now being at the rest of ACSA's standards it seems.

Anyway, heard just now (on 702 again) it was a cargo plane that caused the damage on landing. Spindoctoring or what now ACSA? Suppose it had Zuma to do with Malaysian after all. Well I hope they take ACSA (and maybe Talk Radio 702) to the cleaners if this is the case and they are innocent all along. :}

BTW, I flew into FAJS from Windhoek on Friday night, and boy did the foreign pax complained when we went by bus from "C" where we parked via "B" and then backtracked along "A" to be dropped of in the wrong place (not international arrivals!)!:mad:

B Sousa

27th Nov 2005, 14:50

Can we just look at this and say, a 744 will damage a runway if it Crashes or if the Runway does not meet standards for an aircraft that size.........
So the pothole was repaired or filled in.......??

African Tech Rep

27th Nov 2005, 16:36

Just on e-tv news
Some blame a Russian freighter that delivered a yacht – but the airport seems to leaning to “we’re not sure” “it might have been the weather”.
Yes – weather – she (the spokesperson) said about hot / cold, contraction / expansion.

(me thinks they should blame the Russians :E )

Gauteng Pilot

27th Nov 2005, 16:55

On SABC they said "it was probably Natural Causes"

Must be that ACSA "natrually" doesnt maintain things

They did show a An-124 of Antonov Airlines and a unknown IL-76 sitting on the apron with a BA 744 inbetween them

Maurice Chavez

27th Nov 2005, 17:04

African Tech Rep

Agree with you on them Russians... Heard a rumour that on last weeks AFRA meeting in Cocknexttomountain, AFRA wants to get all Russian airplanes out of of Africa. Now the best is, Russian IL-76's are flying for the SAAF as LMG603 from LAD to JNB...Heard them last week on the radio, blabbing English....

They got my vote, out!

captainsomeday

27th Nov 2005, 20:46

The big Russian freighter that landed recently was an Antonov 124 but there was a continuos rush this morning of A340's and 747's bombarding that section of runway.I also believe that the maintenance work on the main runway at night time for the last few months has been concentrating on that intersection lately.Typical ACSA though.Not our fault!!!Are they not resposible also for ils 01 downgraded to cat 1 because they wont pay to replace the damaged parts or so the story goes??A number of international arrivals diverted about 2 or 3 weeks ago because the wx was below minima.:ok: nice 1:ok:

African Tech Rep

27th Nov 2005, 20:59

I know it’s not going to be ACSA’s fault – but what “got me” was the attempt to blame it on “the weather” or “natural causes”.

“Joe public” will accept “a big plane landed and broke the runway” but not “we didn’t expect it rain”.

It’s almost too silly for words – if your going to “spin” something you DO NOT spin it so you sound stupid – and this is exactly what ACSA seem to be doing. :rolleyes:

Actually :{ is probably more appropriate.

captain cumulonimbus

27th Nov 2005, 21:04

Hey all.

Interesting that ACSA blames "natural causes"...i always thought that the term referred only to a comment on a death certificate!But i heard the woman spokesman on SABC News too.A lot of 'corporate speak' amounting to zero info and well,one has to think in the absence of any evidence to the contrary that perhaps ACSA maintenance IS to blame.

By the way,the IL-76 is ER-IBE of Avcom Airlines i believe.The AN-124 came into FACT around 7am local so surely if it did the damage,as has been suggested,someone other than the MAS flight would have noticed? That is only supposed to leave around 10am...

Interesting piece of mystery here!

Goldfish Jack

27th Nov 2005, 23:58

As someone who has worked at Cape Town for many years, I have watched a sure but steady decline in the stadard and appearance of CTI.

I believe that IFALPA needs to get involved and investigate whether or not the airfield is worthy of being put on the black list.

At the outset one needs to compliment ATNS – they have certainly spent a lot of money upgrading systems and staying ahead of the traffic situation. Extra staff have been employed and much training, research and development has been undertaken. The same cannot be said for ACSA. ATNS is in a very fabourable situation to be able to handle any situation that is thrown at them and the 2010 world cup is well up on the agenda and being managed. Constant management of traffic figures is watched and plans are accordingly made. The same cannot be said of dear old ACSA

One has to look at the state of the ILSs. They are down so many times one has given up on counting them – they are extremely unreliable and no-one can say when they are going to be repaired. How long does the present unsafe situation have to go on for, before they are fixed – do we need an accident before something gets done??

The incident today involving the runway closure was also a good point in case. It was complete and utter shambles. No-one at ACSA wants to take accountability for the messup and they are running around blaming natural causes and aircraft. Heavens above a runway is designed to take a/c landing and taking off – it should not be blown away. ACSA wants to employ these cheap companies to repair their airfield – they must now live with the consequences and take accountability for the outcome. The runway hole was a direct result of shoddy work.

The airport could not cope with the resultant outcome. The roads around the airport were a complete and utter shambles – where we the traffic cops?. The traffic around the ringroad was chaotic and hardly moved at all. The car park is woefully inadequate and the new car park is so far behind, one wonders where they will park all the cars over the coming festive season, never mind 2010.

The terminal buidlings were hopelessly over-exposed to their inadequacies and were not able to handle the amount of passengers. Does ACSA realise that 2010 is just over 1200 days away and they need to do some serious planning if they do not want a completely shambolic situation?

Nevermind the airside – when the runway did reopen all hell broke lose. The airport ran short of gates and aircraft were left to hold on a taxiway because of no gates. We had 5 a/c waiting for gates at one stage and ACSA really had no idea what to do. Whatever happened to their gate allocation vs slot management vs pre-planning. It was eventually left to the ground controllers to run the whole show. What are they going to do if another airport goes down in this country and what are they planning to do with 2010 soccer world cup. Luckily there were some pretty experienced controllers on duty today and they could sort it out – ACSA could not.

ATNS has the capacity – ACSA does not – high speed turn offs are needed and they are needed fast – runway 01 can handle far more a/c than 19. Holding bays are needed at holding points to allow a/c to pass each other. Todays situation highlighted the need for another runway and it is needed quickly.

The state of the airfield also leaves a lot to be desired – overgrown in certain areas and lack of vegetaion next to the runways invariably leads to heavy jets blasting dirt and FOD all over the place. I cant remember when I worked a ground shift and did not have ACSA staff running around sweeping taxiways and runways to remove stone, dirt and other FOD.

Come on ACSA take accountability for the present state of this airport and sort it out, so the rot will stop and we can have an airfield we can be proud of, and not become a truly thirld world airport with things that are run down, do not work and a safety hazard. Stick on the road you are now and you will be there quicker than you think.

farmpilot

28th Nov 2005, 07:07

Time for a second runway boys?????

Deanw

28th Nov 2005, 07:08

I flew into FACt yesterday evening at 19h05. Our flight was placed in the hold for 10 minutes, then we waited about five minutes on the taxiway waiting for a parking spot to open up. Then we waited a few more minutes waiting for the stairs to arrive.

Got inside the Arrivals Terminal and absolute chaos! No one knowing which conveyor belt was delivering luggage from which fight.

I understand that flights are still being delayed this morning.

MysticFlyer

28th Nov 2005, 07:58

Stay POSITIVE folks!

Carefull not to get the whole place blacklisted because of flaws in management and awarding of BEE contracts.

Anyone for cognac or a cigar in Houghton as we are given an explanation by a top avaition official currently on a "self impossed" sabbatical. (Hopefully he will retire from his sabbatical more rested and a new-found "greed" for changing aviation in SA more positively.)

A loss of lives will really keep those sensitive travellers, well worldwide away!:sad:

Jetblast causes flaking.....apply anti-dandruff perhaps?

beechbum

28th Nov 2005, 08:14

Who heads up ACSA?.........eish I rest my case!!!!
Mr Goldfish Jack, unfortunately like everything else in this sacred land of ours its all going down the proverbial toilet. Look at the rest of the continent mate and we'll get an idea of how our airports are going to be neglected in the near future. I hope I'm wrong but methinks not.
ILS's ummm they can't even spell the word. As long as the coffers are being nicely lined they're not going to give a damn about it. It makes our blood boil but this is it.
Unfortunately it's our butts on the line everytime we fly in and out of these places and maybe all of us should take a stand and do something about it - something has to be done before it's too late. But then again apathy rules!!!:yuk:
Anyway hope the mess in FACT is somehow sorted out and we can continue to safely navigate in and out of there.
Keep up the good work Mr Jack........:ok:

Solid Rust Twotter

28th Nov 2005, 08:23

Strange, strange world we live in, Mr Jack...:E

farmpilot

28th Nov 2005, 08:24

NotHomeMuch

28th Nov 2005, 09:40

As ex ATC FACT, now drifter of the world, I remember an incident in 1993 when 01/19 fell apart during a Black South Easter with serious rain and wind. Work had been done on the Rwy centre line lights and the contractors had stuffed it and huge pieces of tar were lifting about 100m from the 34 intersection. Rwy was closed from, if memory serves, about 1600 on the Sunday till early the next morning and needless to say, as it was the good od DCA then, all manner of excuses/blaming done similar to what I read now and the airlines and paying public were left carrying the can. Sooooooo glad to see all has changed - not!

radioexcel

28th Nov 2005, 10:09

:O Won't help to say "I told you so"...but it surpises me that the runway has lasted this long. Also been on the runway a lot of times in the past..pre 2000, and been working in the TWR many a time when "holes" suddenly appreared somewhere along the runway. There was lost of recommendation way back in the 90's of a 2nd runway. Shot down every time as the "time" was not yet right by DCA and later ACSA???

Maybe ACSA will wake up now!!:eek: A second runway is long.long time overdue..not only for the purpose of traffic, but a) the existing runway need lost of repars and b) the unexpected blockage such as the one which just occured, causes millions R's loss to the carriers and the flying public.

A few years ago Cape Town already passed the traffic count being handled by JNB in 1992. JNB then already had a 2nd runway. ACSA makes million R's.

To blame the poor Malaysia or the Russians??? ACSA must be blamed!! The runway is certified to handle these "heavy's". If not, there is a serious problem for ACSA.

Like to hear what the "H" type rated pilots have to say!!:ok:

jollybuccaneer

28th Nov 2005, 16:23

Agree Capt Cu, the facts are this: after the MAS 744 took off the next schedule to depart a few minutes later called the tower to say that it looked like "black plastic" lying on the runway. Tower put a light aircraft and a formation of two (maybe three) Hunters into holding patterns whilst an inspection was made.

The "black plastic" could not have been missed by all the aircraft that took off before MAS, so it is most probable that the MAS 744 either exposed previous damage or opened a runway fault line. In any event accountability rests squarly with the management of the runway - ACSA.

Gunship

28th Nov 2005, 20:02

The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) is to investigate the problem that caused the main runway at Cape Town International Airport to be closed for over five hours on Sunday.

"This falls within the ambit of things we normally inspect," CAA spokesperson Phindiwe Gwebu said on Monday.

The authority - tasked with promoting, regulating and enforcing civil aviation safety and security - was awaiting a report from the Airports Company South Africa (Acsa), she said.

Acsa spokesperson Deidre Hendricks said a "pavement surface defect" led to the runway being closed shortly after damage was spotted by an aircraft crew while taking off on Sunday morning.

"It was reported between 11.20am and 11.30am. By 11.35am, the runway had been closed because we were not prepared to take any safety risks."

She declined on Monday to say which airline had reported the problem, saying only it "did not cause an immediate threat to the aircraft upon its take-off".

Photographs of the affected runway in Cape Town newspapers on Monday morning showed an area of about 30 square metres undergoing repair by airport workers.

The runway was re-opened at 5pm on Sunday. Hendricks said lifting and crumbling of the asphalt on the runway was caused by stress and environmental factors, including high temperatures.

Civil aviation regulations in South Africa require runway inspections to be carried out "at reasonable intervals".

Hendricks said the runway at Cape Town International Airport was inspected six times a day.

"This inspection is done by various departments operating in Acsa, to ensure the credibility of the checks," she said. - Sapa

link (http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=qw1133194321309B261)

4HolerPoler

28th Nov 2005, 22:09

Passengers, airlines
Gatvol at huge chaos

Johannesburg - The Civil Aviation Authority wants to know why, in spite of six daily inspections, damage to a main runway at Cape Town International Airport was not noticed in good time to prevent the weekend's massive air chaos. Whatever the cause is of the "hole" in a Cape Town main runway, it will do little to appease the thousands of "tired, hungry and gatvol" passengers waiting at airports across South Africa since Sunday afternoon for flights to or from Cape Town. The airlines, too, are baying for blood as they struggle to eliminate their huge backlogs of passengers. It was revealed on Monday that scheduled maintenance was done on the runway as recently as Saturday night, and again early on Monday morning, hours after the runway was reopened to air traffic. Experts said that the "hole" in the runway surface could have led to an aviation disaster and massive loss of life if a fully loaded 747 passenger jet had landed on it.

While airlines struggled to clear the backlogs after thousands of passengers countrywide were stranded because of airport problems, fingers were increasingly being pointed at the Airports Company of SA (Acsa) and the quality of maintenance in Cape Town. Malaysian Airlines also reacted angrily to rumours that its 747-400 caused a 5mx6m piece of asphalt to "lift up" on the runway. The airline's district manager in Cape Town, Chan Cheong Eu, said that when Air Malaysia's flight landed at Buenos Aires, Argentina, after its flight from Cape Town there was "no damage to the plane". He said if it were true that the tail of their jet caused the hole in the ground, "today's news would not have been so simple". "In serious cases (where the tail hits the ground when taking off), the aircraft can break in two and cause total disaster," said Chan. Asphalt that lifts up, as apparently happened on Sunday, is "dangerous". An informed aviation source, specialising in cargo aircraft, commented: "The logical deduction is that the incident happened because of a lack of proper, sustained maintenance. "If the runway failed when a heavy (Boeing) 747 full of passengers landed on it, the consequences could have been fatal. "It probably would have yanked off the plane's undercarriage, making it impossible to steer," he said.

Rodney James, marketing manager of budget airline 1time, said on Monday that such a hole "does not suddenly appear" and should have been "spotted during routine maintenance". Comair's Gidon Novick said it was astonishing that Acsa's managing director Monhla Hlahla had made no comment about Sunday's events. "We demand a clear explanation. At present, there are only vague stories. We want to know what happened."

CAA incident inspector Gilbert Thwala said the CAA wanted to determine why the asphalt lifted. 'Not due to a lack of maintenance' "The fact that it was not spotted earlier raises questions about maintenance at the airport," he said. Acsa spokesperson Deidre Hendricks confirmed, meanwhile, that work was "recently" been done on the runway, but that it was "routine maintenance". Hendricks said the runway was checked six times a day and the "defect was definitely not due to a lack of maintenance". Acsa apparently are investigating the possibility that, besides environmental factors, the damage might have been the result of a "take-off, landing or jet-engine ignition" and the "stress this caused on the surface".

Passenger Jac Jacobs said his group had to sleep at Johannesburg International on Sunday night. "We have been stuck here since Sunday afternoon. Our flight was delayed several times without any reason or apology being offered," he said. "We were promised time and again that we would take off soon, simply to be informed a little later that it was still not possible." Jacobs, who was waiting for a Nationwide flight to Cape Town along with 82 other people, said no one from Acsa, which runs South Africa's airports, or Nationwide tried to help the stranded passengers. Nationwide was one of the airlines affected by the delays. Jacobs said: "They just told us that we were unable to fly and that we should go home. "That despite there being three small babies in the group. What alternatives were there at that time of the morning?" Nationwide spokesperson Rodger Whittle said his airline couldn't be held responsible for the delayed flights. "The situation was out of our control and that is why we didn't organise accommodation or food. "We can't afford to compensate people for something that we didn't cause. "Some of our staff worked non-stop for more than 24 hours to keep passengers informed. Often the passengers' expectations are unrealistic."

Goldfish Jack

29th Nov 2005, 03:08

I just wish ACSA would stop blaming everyone else. They were working at the intersection on the runways on Sat night, as per NOTAM whatevernumber, and the area where the hole was was exactly where they worked.

You do not have to be a rocket scientist to work it out, that when you get an el cheapo company to do the work, with no previous experience on repairing runways, that you are going to have problems.

Either they did not pre-mix, or they used the incorrect tar mixture. Come on ACSA own and tell everyone the real reason.

When you you to deal with them on a daily basis like we do, you soon realise that their senior management at FACT have NO IDEA what they are doing...............see my other posting about the airfield being black listed.

IFALPA if you are worth what you say you are, get working...

Goldfish Jack

29th Nov 2005, 03:12

Stay positive - we do try but when you work with ACSA it is quite an exerience.

THey still have not sorted out their ILSs despite saying they would. Will it take an accident to get it sorted out..........

Yep FACT is really in the third world.

I think my colleagues deserve a mention for handling and sorting the mess out - ACSA did not know what to do - without them the airport would still be in a chaotic situation. Wonder if those idiots at ACSA will say anything........

Must say well done to the SAA crew that landed yesterday morning (mon) on 01 with a A340-600 with a 10knot tailwind to avoid having to land in the freshly re-tarred area. Looked quite impressive.

yogibear

29th Nov 2005, 06:41

And what about compensation? I had a client that was flying out of JNB but was rebooked because he couldn't make the connection from down here...... BA washed their hands, come back tomorrow and we'll try again - but you gotta pay your own way. No hotel, no help nothing. ........:hmm:

Farmpilot, the airlines are clients of ACSA , so they also have to go through the whole claim process for compensation etc. which as you know takes forever and a day, so for the airline to just hand out hotel and food vouchers, free tickets or whatever will have most of them in all sorts of trouble in no time.That is why they have all the guidlines and policies regarding these types of things, you may get a coffee voucher for a weather delay but no hotel or free ticket cause it is not the airlines fault that the weather is crappy and so on, so as much as the staff would like to help out all the pax for ALL the delays they cannot....:ok:

farmpilot

29th Nov 2005, 08:45

Yogi

I agree that airlines should not be held responsible for EVERYTHING but I bet if an airline spanked a new jet way ACSA would be all over them like a rash - and rightly so (as long as it wasn't a ACSA marshal that caused it:})

I'm sure the airlines will be after compensation and so why not look after their pax but putting them up, giving them food and then claim it back from ACSA. The pax stay happy and fly again with the airline, ACSA get egg all over their face and Cape Town gets a new runway - job done:ok:

Or have I been in the sun too long......

EX-ATC

29th Nov 2005, 13:31

"One has to look at the state of the ILSs. They are down so many times one has given up on counting them – they are extremely unreliable and no-one can say when they are going to be repaired. How long does the present unsafe situation have to go on for, before they are fixed – do we need an accident before something gets done?? "

GFJ

Please correct me if I'm wrong. ACSA bought all the ILSs installed at the ACSA airports and ATNS is maintaining them. ACSA has bought 3 different models of ILSs (ASII, Thales and Normarc) for their airports. Sometimes 2 different models on one airport. I can assure you that the ones in question are not the worst system on the market. As a matter of fact they are one of the best.

ATNS has a maintenance contract with a BEE company for the support of their navaids, not even capable of looking after the ILSs (as they are not trained on the systems) and with no contact with the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) in order to get spares from the OEM. Is it really fair to blame ACSA for that? ATNS has awarded their new project Terns (40 navaid sites) to another company representing the OEM in question.

Are those who work on them and looking after the logistics really up to scratch for the job? Or is a matter of blaming the tools if you can't use them properly?

Saw the same sort of problems in countries like Swaziland, Zim, Malawi where the guys are not trained as a result of high personnel turnover and then they are blaming the equipment.

glimmerman_alpha

29th Nov 2005, 14:11

I had a chat with one of the guys from the contract company.

Firstly, its not a el cheapo company. they are one of the biggest civil contractors in SA.

Secondly, they have repeatedly, at each runway inspection, stressed the fact to ACSA that the intersection needs to be repaired immediately. ACSA's only response was that they are not willing to close down the airport at night to do the work, So eventually, after 4 months, they did get the go-ahead to do it -but for one night only and its suppose to take 3 nights!!!!!

So, whose to blame? A-C-S-A. When will they realise that when you run an international airport, it needs to be maintained that way, even if it means closing down at night.

Dont you agree:confused:

captainsomeday

29th Nov 2005, 17:58

How much longer do ACSA need??How long has the main runway been shut at night??? And Ils 01??????????
Hello ACSA, wake up and make Cape Town International Airport, a proper International Airport!!!!!! The Atc's,airlines, pilots and passengers can only do so much.

Gauteng Pilot

29th Nov 2005, 19:00

newspaper reported again today

Said something like:
"First we thought it was a Malaysian 747 then a Russian freighter, but now we think at was weather and water "

:rolleyes:

MysticFlyer

30th Nov 2005, 05:46

See the Campfire on the issue of smoke in Richards Bay, we can treat the symptoms, but the cause...remains dangerous.

Gunship

1st Dec 2005, 05:41

The Airports Company of South Africa (Acsa) still does not know what caused the hole in the main runway of the Cape Town International Airport.

Acsa spokesperson Deirdré Hendricks told journalists on Tuesday that the matter was still being investigated.

But Acsa would spend about R36m in the new financial year on maintenance for the main runway of 3.2km.

She said there had been widespread speculation in the past few days about the causes of the hole on runway 19.

She said the speculations that moles might have damaged the runway were definitely not true. Acsa still believed that environmental and stress factors were the logical answer.

A Capetonian pest controller and expert who does not want to be named for professional reasons, said moles might have caused the damage.

"Moles often make burrows under constructions such as roads and runways. This area is hot and dry, and is an ideal home for these animals.

"The burrows might have made the reinforced concrete surface subside slightly and then the asphalt could easily have been ripped off," he said.

Hendricks said Acsa wanted to emphasise that the main and secondary runways were closed from 11:35 to 17:00 on Sunday so that an airport team could repair the hole. A piece of asphalt had been ripped off the main runway.

"The pilot of a plane that took off at 11:20 reported the damage on runway 19. Engineers discovered a hole of 6m by 3m. Asphalt 3cm thick was ripped off the runway," Hendricks said.

Airport manager George Uriesi said Acsa apologised for any inconvenience.

"But the safety of airport users is very important. Acsa cannot take chances with people's lives," he said.

He added that the runways at Cape Town International Airport complied with international safety standards and boasted some of the safest runways in Africa.

"Incidents like this are not unique. International airports everywhere in the world also regularly interrupt their normal activities to solve problems," Uriesi said.

He said the airport here complied with all the requirements that the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) expected of an airport.

FUG

25th Aug 2006, 13:49

While there seems to be some talk of ACSA - found this on the front page of today's Business Day.
1time to sue Acsa over runway pothole
Carli Lourens
Business Day 25 August 2006
ONE of at least four private airlines becoming increasingly frustrated by Airports Company SA’s (Acsa’s) alleged poor service intends to sue it for losses amounting to R900000.
Low-fare airline 1time said yesterday that it had tried unsuccessfully to recoup losses from Acsa after a hole that had developed in a Cape Town International Airport runway forced flights to be diverted in December last year.
1time marketing director Rodney James said the airline’s initial nonlegal attempts came to nothing as Acsa ignored them.
Another private airline, Nationwide, said it had kept records of the losses it had suffered as a result of the incident at the Cape Town airport.
Nationwide finance director Peter Griffiths said, however, that the group had not taken action as it did not have much hope of recovering its losses.
“Acsa tramples roughshod over its customers,” said Griffiths.
Comair, which operates British Airways and kulula.com, said it was also concerned about the Cape Town incident and had suffered damages as a result of it.
However, Comair would attempt to get a service-level agreement in place with Acsa, instead of trying to recover its losses from the company.
“It’s not only the runway incident — there are 50 to 100 areas where we require service levels to be met, such as in security and parking,” Comair joint CE Gidon Novick said yesterday.
He said a service-level agreement should include imposing punitive measures if airport service standards were not met.
James said the Cape Town incident could have been avoided. He said runways were required to be inspected several times a day.
He said the airline was also frustrated by continual upgrades to airports in SA. James said it was impossible for 1Time to get flights to depart on time during peak holiday periods.
Acsa did not respond to a request for comment yesterday.
Increasing customer unhappiness flies in the face of Acsa’s rising fortunes — its operating profit climbed 30% in the year to March and cash flow jumped 39%

JetPark

25th Aug 2006, 14:01

Oh dear, my my, poor old ACSA. Now there are two threads running. Just look at Deskjocky's thread. Maybe that lady should follow 1Time's lead? And don't worry, ACSA can afford it :rolleyes:

Deskjocky

25th Aug 2006, 14:36

What ACSA are getting up to amounts to legalised theft- they are worse than the mafia. There is not one activity on that airport that they are not getting a cut of/ the whole amount. Problem is the airlines are screwed- no alternative, good luck 1T you have ZERO chance of them even responding to your complaint, sue them will be equally useless as they are a petty bunch of pen pushers- check how many bays you get on Alpha or Delta at JNB after that!:mad:

JetPark

25th Aug 2006, 14:43

Yes, be careful 1T, when you get to CPT they'll push you onto Foxtrot Apron or maybe even to the GA Area which, like JHB, they don't give a :mad: about anyway. Oh how I wish we could see some competition for that bunch :yuk:

Solid Rust Twotter

25th Aug 2006, 15:31

It's a private company with the state as a majority shareholder to bypass the non profit laws. They also run it as a monopoly with the help of govt.

Which part of low down bottom dwelling thieving rubbish is unclear?:*

Foo-Fighter

26th Aug 2006, 16:02

Isn't the state the SOLE shareholder...as with ATNS?

JetPark

28th Aug 2006, 07:01

No, Aeroporti Di Roma is the other shareholder is it not? Unless that has changed without me noticing it? Anyway, look what else ACSA is faced with - not that this one is their fault:

28 August 2006
BREAKING NEWS: 'Crippling' immigration strike imminent

SOUTH African immigration officials are to embark on a “crippling strike” from September 1, which will affect all points of entry into the country, including airports.
Negotiations to resolve an outstanding salary dispute between the officials’ union, the Public Servants Association (PSA) and Department of Home Affairs have failed.
According to the PSA’s Manie De Clercq, no communication has been received from government and this “lack of urgency in resolving the dispute” has forced the union to move ahead with strike action.
“The Department should accept sole responsibility for the situation as well as the impact of the strike, which will cripple all points of entry into the country,” says Manie.

Oh dear?:ugh:

Solid Rust Twotter

28th Aug 2006, 07:08

These are the hard working immigration officers who are normally asleep on their desks when you roll in there at lunch time on a Sunday, not so? Trying to get a coherent response and a friendly greeting out of them instead of a surly grunt is like pulling teeth.:yuk: :yuk:

Bunch of wasters, just like their political masters...:*

2010 is going to be a real dream come true....:rolleyes:

Rani

28th Aug 2006, 07:13

Any news/rumors about ACSA's Abuja airport (ABV) concession bid?

ACSA come to the rescue! ABV is in dire need of expansion and reform.

putt for dough

28th Aug 2006, 07:38

ACSA cant run our airports efficiently enough and
now you talk of them taking over Abuja?
What a joke:yuk:

Is this strike for sure on the 1st? My boet is arriving from EGLL
and has been out of the country for more then a year, what a great
welcome it would be for him and the other tourists!
You know what they say about first impressions:(

JetPark

28th Aug 2006, 07:47

Rani: You want ACSA to take over Abuja? I think you need to go and lay down until the feeling goes away :rolleyes:

It's expensive enough passing through Abuja, why would you want to pay more for less?

FUG

28th Aug 2006, 07:51

[QUOTE=JetPark;2803785]No, Aeroporti Di Roma is the other shareholder is it not? Unless that has changed without me noticing it?

Jet Park - No, ADR sold their shares back to the government and these are now held by the PIC (still the state though)

FUG

28th Aug 2006, 08:03

ACSA cant run our airports efficiently enough and
now you talk of them taking over Abuja?
What a joke:yuk:

I also believe that ACSA are involved with the joint concession with BIDVEST in Mumbai. In fact their plans are to take over a number of airports in Africa, they have even set up a department that takes care of the expansions plans.

Rani

28th Aug 2006, 08:08

Abuja Airport is even a bigger joke (epileptic power supply, reliance on a single runway despite VIP traffic interruptions, among other "shows") FAAN is beyond a joke, it's a national disgrace. The reputation of Nigerian airports around the world speaks for itself... It's about time the Nigerian government concessioned / privatized the airports beginning with Abuja and the Lagos domestic terminal.

ACSA might be inefficient but it definietely has the expertise and minimum professionalism needed to turn around / expand ABV.

Besides, ACSA along with Vienna Airport consortium and another company "Abuja Airport Consortium" are the three short-listed companies. ACSA appears to be the most experienced in both airport management as well as African environment. They also managed to land a management contract in Mumbai india?

Do you care to shed some light on ACSA's problems within SA?

JetPark

28th Aug 2006, 08:09

Thanks FUG, I do now actually recall that. Would love to have heard the Boardroom chat prior to ADI's decision to sell.

Solid Rust Twotter

28th Aug 2006, 08:16

Do you care to shed some light on ACSA's problems within SA?

Astronomical charges, poor/zero service.

FUG

28th Aug 2006, 12:15

There was a very interesting article in the Sunday Times about 2 weeks ago in which the CEO Monhla Hlahla was their featured personality. One part of the article was particularly entertaining to me :
“There are many, many monopolies in the world and even in our country, but they remain inefficient and do not get such results.”
When I look unsuitably convinced, she adds: “Our economy is so small that many of our big companies behave like monopolies. It would be nice to see monopolies being able to generate value that they put back in the development of infrastructure.”
Small, likeable and at 42 relatively young, Hlahla, who seemed so innocent and vulnerable when I last spoke to her three years ago, has mastered the executive art of sounding injured while defending her record. “That is why they designed us to be a monopoly — so that we focus solely on investing back in the infrastructure. We are a monopoly, but a monopoly that is able to give value back to the public,” she says.
I struggle to see how they are giving value to the public.
Read the whole article here
http://www.sundaytimes.co.za/Articles/TarkArticle.aspx?ID=2190479

PAXboy

28th Aug 2006, 12:16

FUG... and these are now held by the PIC (still the state though) Aahh, if only ACSA did have a PIC (Pilot in Command) :rolleyes:

JetPark

28th Aug 2006, 12:43

I think the value they give to the public is indeed constant and consistent(albeit very slow) reinvestment into the infrastructure. Problem is they constantly run just behind the power curve. They tend to operate in a form of crises management and in overload mode all the time. My biggest problem is the focus on this aspect (reinvestment for the public) of their robust balance sheet and no (or rather very little) attention is paid to the stakeholder on their airports. I know of numerous examples where various forums continually :ugh: with ACSA. Strange bunch.

4HolerPoler

21st Dec 2006, 19:09

Another hole in the runway at Cape Town:

A surface defect on a runway at Cape Town International Airport caused an in-bound flight from London to be diverted to Bloemfontein, SABC radio news reported on Thursday. Airports Company of South Africa spokesperson Deidre Hendricks said domestic operations had not been affected. The runway was in partial use, and the defect was located about 200m from the threshold of the runway, Hendricks said. Acsa was working hard to get the runway fully operational, SABC reported.

propdriver

22nd Dec 2006, 19:31

Departing off FACT, rwy 19 ,just past intersection "C" these days feels no different than departing off Kinshasa 06/24, feels like the undercarrige is about to be ripped off, what is ACSA thinking???

Shrike200

23rd Dec 2006, 03:21

Yeah, it's pretty bad.

"V1", BANG, CRASH, ^%&$%*!!!!, "ROTATE!" (shouted to be heard over the crashing noise from the undercarraige).

unstable load

25th Dec 2006, 15:31

Should there be a catastrophy at FACT due to the state of the runway it will be the airline involved that gets to be burnt at the stake no matter how long the runway has been bad. The legal costs alone would be horrendous, and as it looks like a fat chance that ACSA will pay up then the airline will need to.

After all, if it was that bad then why did they land???

Surely then it is time for the AIRLINES to stand together and boycott FACT instead of just talking around the issue.

I am not trying to be flippant here, I will be flying into Cape Town in a few weeks and I don't want to be on board the plane that does crash, if as this thread is pointing out,it is inevitable.

This is a symbiotic industry..... I trust you pilots to get me home and in return you guys trust people like me to keep your planes serviceable. We all put our asses in the ATC's hands, and then with any luck our luggage will have been correctly loaded and will arrive unmolested.....

I know I will need to put on my teflon coat now, but we do need to have faith in each other that we are indeed looking out for the common good. If ACSA won't pull their finger out then someone needs to do it for them.

Rant over, feeling better now.:{ :{ Sort of:ugh: