Delays at Dublin due security

[Irish Steve]

RTE News are carrying a report that a security audit at DUB has been failed comprehensively!

It would appear that a number of "unacceptable" items were passed through the system without being detected in the checks that were carried out.


Inspectors managed to conceal knives in their shoes, a knife was hidden inside an item of women's underwear and, most significantly, a replica bomb was concealed inside a bag for check-in.

None of these breaches was discovered by airport security staff. However, Dublin Airport Authority says that all of the breaches were addressed as soon as they were discovered.


For full details, see report :-

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0412/dublinairport.html

[Boeing737]

Good god!Perhaps it's just the "Luck Of The Irish" that nothing serious has happened as a result of this...yet. :eek:

[Irish Steve]

Perhaps it's just the "Luck Of The Irish" that nothing serious has happened as a result of this...yet.

I worked there for 3 years, have been involved one way or another for close on 20 years, and luck probably best sums it up, but there's some other factors that also are relevant, right the way to the top.

For a good while, it was no hassle at all for certain people to be able to get substantial quantities of cigarettes off the ramp illegally. There's other issues as well, but they're not so media rich, so tend not to get reported in the same way.

I'm tempted to say that if they had 15 people there doing the audit, they knew exactly where the weaknesses were, and decided that it was time to prove the point.

DUB is Ireland's largest and most profitable pub, and has been operated on that basis for too long. What it needs now is to be brought screaming into the 21st century, and made into what's needed, which is an international airport that can properly and adequately handle all aspects of one of the most vibrant economies in Europe. As it is now, it's a joke that's being discussed at length in other threads on these fora.

Some of the issues with security are plain and simple that the scanners are under too much pressure, there's just not enough of them to be able to do the job. If you're under pressure because the queues are getting longer and longer, to the point where passengers or their bags are at risk of missing their flights, it's hard to make instant decisions that could slow things down even more.

Between delays getting in to the airport, and then the delays in the airport, it's risky now to arrive an hour before the flight with only hand luggage, as at certain times of the day, it can take close on 50 minutes to simply get through check in and get to the gate. In that scenario, the security scanners are under huge psychological pressure, and with the way things are expanding, it isn't about to improve, the opposite is more likely to be the case.

Hopefully, this check will provide the motivation to all concerned to get it right. There's no quick fix, some of the issues are deep seated in long term mistakes that were made in the design and layout of the whole infrastructure.

With luck, and some serious media pressure over a period of time, this audit will provide the impetus and pressure to get it right for a change.

[airbourne]

I am shocked that it has taken almost 5 years for something to happen at DUB. Most people in the business know that security there is a complete joke. Without going into the details, all you have to do is hop the fence, wear a hi-vis and act like you dont give a toss and you wont be challenged at all! There are higher fences and walls at my local tennis club than there is at DUB. I hope someone gets the sack over this!

[Getafix]

That dosn't surpise me one bit Dublin airport from a passanger piont of view and an operational has to be with one of the worst airports and way behind the rest of all european Captial airports.

If you look at the ramp to see groung equiptment left all over the place passangers having to cross ramp road ways, no aircraft guidence onto stands, no center taxi way lighting the list goes on and on.
Dublin airport authority are more intrested in car parking fee's and clamping cars that actually trying to get there act together.

God know's I loath Oleary but when it come to Dublin airport I can understand why hes nearly driven nuts but maybe thats a good thing.

[Irish Steve]

all you have to do is hop the fence, wear a hi-vis and act like you dont give a toss and you wont be challenged at all!

Not long ago, that was very true and very easy, a number of people from Servisair who were involved in an industrial dispute did exactly that, and got as far as the baggage hall with no problems at all, and despite the blatant breach of just about all the airport byelaws, most of them are still working at the airport.

In passing, at that time, when there was a serious risk of Servisair not being able to provide service to their clients, it was suddenly possible for all manner of "visitors", who were there to be called on at short notice in the event of a withdrawal of ramp labour, to be able to get unrestricted airside access passes within a very short period of time, and without anything like the normal security and background enquiries being made. At one stage, there were a considerable number of "visitors" resident in one of the airport hotels on standby. It made a complete and total mockery of airside security.

It would be harder now, they have at last, only very recently, upgraded the perimeter fence in a number of areas that were very exposed and vulnerable, and it is now a lot harder to get over that fence than it used to be.

Having said that, if you know anything about the way that DUB airside security operates, and I do, there are a number of areas where it is altogether too easy to breach that security without having to work very hard at it.

The other comments about ramp layout, access to stands, poor separation of passengers and ramp equipment, equipment lying "abandoned" all over the place, passenger safety around the A pier, and similar comments are all very true, and indicative of a complete loss of control of the management of the ramp, and of casual and institutionalised indifference throughout the management of both DAA and the handling agencies. It's made worse by the problems of not being able to tackle certain issues because they are "sacred cows" that will have SIPTU in orbit before the managers concerned have even finished the conversation! Yes, it really is that bad.

As I've said so many times, DAA's main interest is running Ireland's largest and most profitable pub. The fact that there's an airport built around it which is the main reason that most of the people are actually there seems to have somehow escaped notice for altogether too long. Add to that the incompetence of some of the managers of other organisations, and it's a miracle that there hasn't been another fatality on the ramp.

Apparently, as a result of the ongoing audit, which has not yet finished, the minister and PM are both asking for detailed reports from DAA. Maybe at last their attention will be focussed on some of the issues that need attention. It's not before time!!

[Toulouse]

Just a question for anyone who may know. When going through security at DUB, passengers always have to take their laptops out of their bags and screen them separtely. This slows down the entire process. I have never been required to do this at any other airport that I pass through (not saying though that DUB is the only one)... Why is this necessary at Dublin and not at other airports?

[Irish Steve]

I have never been required to do this at any other airport that I pass through (not saying though that DUB is the only one)... Why is this necessary at Dublin and not at other airports?

I can't speak for the rest of Europe, but this is also common practice in the State, so I can only assume that the "RULES" were based on American model rather than European model.

It might have something to do with the American Immigration system being here as well.

Bottom line is I'm not sure why they do it, and if nothing else, it opens up a real theft risk (Yes, it has happened), if the laptop goes through, and the owner is for some reason delayed, there is a wide open window of opportunity for a sneak thief to walk off with the laptop.

My solution to this is to ensure that the gate is clear before the laptop goes through, or to make sure that another member of my family is in place on the other side before I release it into the scan. Yes, it slows things down, but slowing things down is a f:mad: g sight better than having an expensive laptop nicked because the system is wrong!!!

[Toulouse]

Thanks Irish Steve.

[Flame]

I see the Dublin Airport Auth., have surpassed themselves again this morning. Having been slated by ECAC for allowing 2 knives, a handgun (imitation..?) and a make believe bomb get throught the screeners a couple of days ago, this morning the lines at security were, to say the least, a disgrace.

3 PAX with WX missed their flights to LCY and 2 with AF missed their flights to CDG. In all cases, they checked in on time and headed for the boarding gates with time to spare.

What they did not allow for, was the lengthy lines at the security checks. The lines stretched and wound like a large snake all across the departures floor, at one stage during the early morning rush (6AM) passengers checked in and then took a few steps back, to join the lines.

Bearing in mind that the DAA, always have their own people checking that the airlines and handling agents have check in desks open and manned on time, and that they issue warnings if they are not and sometimes fines...you would think that they would get their own house in order first.

Perhaps its a case from the DAA, to hell with everyone else, its our airport like it or lump it!!!!!

I feel so sorry for PAX who just want to take a plane without hassle

For anyone not used to Dublin, yes the 6AM rush is always bad, but this AM it was a total disgrace..how can anyone justify passengers missing flights, when they check in on time and adhere to airline requirements about the time to be at the airport

[Irish Steve]

Nothing new. It's been bad, or worse for a long time now, but they've manged to avoid most of the publicity.

Now, as a result of the hassles you've mentioned, it's even worse than normal, which comes as no surprise to me.

There's another thread running on the security issue, and it's attracting some valid comments, and there's also a thread running on the future upgrade of DUB terminals, and this is one of the many subjects that's already been aired at some length.

Another issue is the contentious one of laptop computers at the security scan. For some reason, and no one has yet been able to provide a good one, they have to be removed from their case and scanned seperately. If for some reason the owner then is delayed coming through the body scanner, and that's not unusual, there is a wide open window of opportunity for a sneak thief to lift the laptop and walk quickly away, and it has happened.

That's an issue that should be addresssed as a matter of extreme urgency. My policy on that is very simple. To hell with the delay, the laptop does not go through the scanner until either the body scanner is clear so I can see exactly where my laptop is, and what's happening to it, or another member of my family has already gone through the scanner and can watch the arrrival of the laptop.

There's no quick and simple answer, DUB has been going down the tubes for years, because the priorities have been wrong, DAA are more interested in keeping Ireland's largest pub profitable than they are in operating a state of the art modern international airport. Too many chickens are now coming home to roost, and resolving the issues is not going to happen overnight.

What it boils down to is that at certain times of the day, don't rely on DUB to be able to process you in an hour, because they can't do it any more. It's no wonder that air rage is becoming more common.:(

[Irish Steve]

It gets better/worse, depending on your perspective.

A number of passengers missed their flights today despite arriving on time at the airport, due to even longer delays than normal at the security scans.

For more see this (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=171016)

[WHBM]

Knowing FR's policy of No Refunds if you don't get to the gate in time, can anyone tell me how they actually handle pax who check in on time but are then grossly delayed by inadequate security staffing levels on their way through the airport.

From the FR site :

"You should be at the boarding gate at least 30 minutes prior to departure. Boarding closes 10 minutes prior to departure. Passengers arriving late at the boarding gate will not be accepted for travel. For travel on a later flight, you will be required to purchase a new ticket at the applicable fare. "

As FR open up check-in 2 hours before departure, by which time there is often a long queue, it seems there could be many cases where pax cannot get through everything in the 1 hour 50 mins available.

[Irish Steve]

As FR open up check-in 2 hours before departure, by which time there is often a long queue, it seems there could be many cases where pax cannot get through everything in the 1 hour 50 mins available.

Looking at some of the other issues that are hopping here at the moment, now might not be a good time to ask them:D

Seems that MO'L might be making an unwanted visit to the High court or worse, depending on the view taken by the judge.

To answer your point, I suspect that FR would take great delight in enforcing their rules, given the already tense state of hostilities that exists between MO'L and DAA over many other issues. I am sure that he's be only too happy with the publicity that would come from this sort of situation, as DAA would be the ones on the negative end of it all.

What could be interesting would be to get someone to investigate the implications of a legal action against DAA to recover all the costs incurred should such an action be taken by FR. I would expect the fallout from such a case to be more than interesting! They already close check in at -40, so that's a pretty good indication of the sort of problems they expect passengers to encounter after they've checked in.

As an idea. DUB is expected to handle about 15 mill pax this year. That's about 42 K per day. the airport operates for about 18 Hours a day, but in reality, there's departures for about 14 Hrs. On that basis, that's about 3000 Pax per hour.

I seem to recall that there's 6 scanners, so if all 6 are are operating and manned, and quite often they are not, to cope with the average flow, each scanner has to push a passenger through every 7.2 seconds. Take elderly passengers who've not removed their outer garments for scanning, passengers that fail the scan so have to be checked in more detail, issues like this, and it's no wonder that they can't cope.