Amendment to UK Rule 5 activated

[headsethair]

See:

http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?categoryid=224&pagetype=68&groupid=362

[TheFlyingSquirrel]

So, if i'm interpreting this right, it makes landing at Battersea technically illegal? ( 60m from anything..etc )

[Flying Pencil]

Err.. the bit about landing and take-of being exempt from the 500' rule covers your approach into Battersea. :D

[TheFlyingSquirrel]

Ok, poor choice of example - So is the ammendment the 60m from the edges of aerodromes were onlookers may be standing behind fences etc?

[headsethair]

(3) Exemptions........

(a) Landing and taking off

(i) Any aircraft shall be exempt from any low flying prohibition in so far as it is flying in accordance with normal aviation practice for the purpose of taking off from, landing at or practising approaches to landing at or checking navigational aids or procedures at a Government or licensed aerodrome.

(ii) Any aircraft shall be exempt from the 500 feet rule when landing and taking-off in accordance with normal aviation practice.

[Flying Pencil]

Nothing like a nice unambiguous piece of legislation is there! Don't know for sure is the answer. If that is the case a few operators would have a hard time obeying it. Also, why is 'any helicopter' exempt the land clear rule?

[Camp Freddie]

The 2 points that jump out at me, are

1)any helicopter flying over a congested area shall be exempt from the land clear rule.

2)prohibited to manoeuvre a helicopter within an aerodrome in accordance with normal aviation practice closer than 60m to vehicles, persons, vessels or structures outside the aerodrome.

Point 1 doesnt make sense to me at all, have I really understood it right. ?

Point 2 I dont really understand either as I often take off and land at a helipad that has a car park and "spotters" just the other side of the fence, how will that work then ?

regards

CF

[jbrereton]

Helicopters are probably exempt from this due to the height they would have to be to autorotate clear. Not practical.
Maybe they realise helicopters do not require huge areas to land in the event of an engine failure.

[JimL]

Camp Freddie,

For the land clear issue:

The CAA is following the work that has been done in JAR-OPS 3 and ICAO to move away (for helicopters) from the use of Congested Area to the more practical Congested Hostile Environment; this aligns with the definition of a Non-Hostile Environment (which includes a statement which indicates that any part of a Congested Area which has adequate forced landing area may be regarded as Non-Hostile).

Thus the capability for glide clear (in accordance with ICAO Annex 2) is no longer required.

Jim

[headsethair]

Helis didn't have to comply with "land clear" under the old rule, never mind the new. Over congested areas the "land without endangering" is the rule for helis - in addition to the 1000 ft/600m rule.

See :

(2) The low flying prohibitions

(a) Failure of power unit An aircraft shall not be flown below such height as would enable it, in the event of a power unit failure, to make an emergency landing without causing danger to persons or property on the surface.

BUT (after much reading and discussion with ATPLs) 2 areas of this new rule need to be highlighted:

1 It is now illegal to land without CAA permission if you are flying SVFR at under 1000 ft unless you are using a Govt/licensed airfield. (This is an extension of the existing rule which applies to The Specified Area) So - those hotels in the Heathrow zone....? All those private sites ? Can't see Heathrow Special allowing 1100 ft everywhere. Anyone know a reason for this rule ? Seems strange to allow a 1000 ft exemption using SVFR, but not to allow unlicensed landing without CAA permission. Will there be a form to fill ? How much notice etc etc ?

2 Batting around the airfield low level training within 60m of "things" outside the boundary is now illegal unless landing or taking off.

And I don't think any of this was in the CAA consultation of 2003.

[puntosaurus]

It's not as bad as it looks on the Heli/SVFR landing issue. We've always had to ask for permission to land in the 'congested areas' referred to in the 1000ft rule.

I don't know if he's still on the case but my contact was Cap. Bob Jones at the CAA on Tel 01293573340 Fax 01293573328. He was always very accommodating but did occasionally say no.

[VeeAny]

I used to regularly land near a Morrisons car park (8M max) but airside at a licensed airfield.

Camp Freddie thats not where you mean is it ?

Clarification from the CAA would be good if the 60M rule is as some people think it reads.

V.

[callie dog]

Spoke to a chap at the CAA the other day with reference to the 60 metre rule and he basically stated the following.

This bit is not relevant to helis taking off and landing or hover taxiing - normal aviation procedures. However to perform manouvers such as quickstops, wing overs etc you must be 60 metres clear.

Sounds fair to me

[Special 25]

Surely the biggest question for us all is - What the hell does 'becalmed' mean ?? Maybe if we helicopters could all become 'becalmed', then we too can be exempt from the 1000 ft rule ?

I love legal jargon.

[old heliman]

To answer a couple of queries.

Landing in a congested area at other than a licensed or government aerodrome has always required a Permission from the CAA, this include hotels around Heathrow, Vanguard Wharf etc. The 'hostile' or non-hostile is not an issue that is relevant to the change, as ANY site needs Permission if within the congested area. If it is 'hostile' (i.e. can't land safely due to 3rd party risk for example) then a Permission would not have been given in the past and would not today. If it could land safely then it is likely a Permission would have and will continue, to be given. No change here at all.

Land clear. Under the old Rule 5 aeroplanes had to land clear but helicopters could land within the congested area if they could do so safely. Apart of course within the old designated area of London that is now elsewhere.

The 60m Rule applies to manouvres such as training, hover checks for maintenance etc where there is no intention to take off and depart into the circuit or away from the site. If hover taxi-ing to take off, then the 60 m rule is not relevant as it is in accordance with normal aviation practice to hover taxi a helicopter (for the purpose of landing or taking off), wheeled or skidded, when moving to the position from where it will take depart and vice versa after arrival to the touchdown point. Spotters are therefore not relevant.

Battersea has only been licensed for R22 helicopters for a number of years now. An exemption was placed on the Official Record to stop pilots and operators having to seek a Permission to land there.

Bob Jones deals with AOC and PAOC operators only, Keith Thomas in Gen Aviation is the contact for other requests. (01293 573528)

Hope this helps a bit

[puntosaurus]

Who do you call for permission to use Vanguard Wharf ? Do they take singles (helicopters, not pilots) ?

No worries, just found the answer on another thread.

[MightyGem]

What the hell does 'becalmed' mean
As it's referring to a balloon, fairly obvious I would have thought.

The bit I like is:
Any helicopter flying shall be exempt from the land clear rule.
So what about when it's not flying?