Helen Clark fears for life in an Aztec

[Sqwark2004]

13.04.05 UPDATED at 11.00am

The Prime Minister's plane made an emergency landing this morning after a mid-air scare.

Helen Clark said she wondered whether she would "live or die" when a door on her chartered aircraft came open during turbulence above the Kapiti coast.

The Piper Aztec reportedly lost altitude rapidly after the door flung open and diverted to Paraparaumu Airport, near Wellington, where it landed at 9am.

Helen Clark told National Radio she was sitting in the rear of the plane reading her papers on the journey from Rotorua to Wellington when they struck turbulence without any warning.

The sudden movement of the plane dislodged the door and as it began to open, two police officers travelling with Helen Clark grabbed hold of it.

They could not manage to shut the door, so they held on to it through the emergency landing at Paraparumu airport.

"When the plane plunges like that, it's obviously quite shocking," the Prime Minister said.

"When you see the door can't close you know that it is a serious incident.

"But I had full confidence in the way the pilot handled the matter and in the strength of the New Zealand police who did their utmost to hold it".

The Piper Aztec is a small 6-seater passenger plane capable of a cruising speed of 150 knots.

On board the six-seater plane was Helen Clark, two accompanying police officers and her press secretary Kathryn Street.

Helen Clark said the pilot was unable to communicate with the passengers as there was no intercom.

She said everyone involved in the incident was "shaken" but the police officers "performed superbly".

She would not comment on whether the door had been closed properly before take-off, saying that the investigation would look at that question.

A spokesman from the PM's office said she was flung about in the bad turbulence that caused the door to open. Her seat belt restrained her but she was still lifted out of her seat and slammed back with her left elbow taking most of the impact.

A precautionary x-ray was done at Kapiti Medical Centre and the arm was sore but not broken.

Helen Clark was shaken and shocked by the incident, the spokesman said.

A rescue control centre spokeswoman said the aircraft made a distress call shortly before landing at Paraparaumu. Police and fire services were alerted.

Keith McKenzie, managing director of Mountain Air planes, confirmed that the Prime Minister was on one of the company's Piper Aztec planes on a flight from Rotorua to Wellington this morning.

"All we are aware of is that our company was conducting a charter flight around 8.30am and just prior to descending to Wellington there was some turbulence and the front passenger door popped open," he said.

He said that as a precaution the pilot declared an emergency and diverted to the nearest airport.

Helen Clark was in Rotorua last night, speaking to the Grey Power annual conference.

The Civil Aviation Authority was also aware of the emergency and the Transport Accident Investigation Commission (TAIC) will investigate.

- NZPA, NEWSTALK ZB, HERALD ONLINE STAFF

[Kaptin M]

He said that as a precaution the pilot declared an emergency The pilot should have had more sense than to do that.
As usual though, what is a frequent and not uncommon event has been turned into a "drama in the high skies"..."the door flung open....Helen Clark was shaken and shocked by the incident"

Someone really ought to take the fabricators of stories such as these to task, and challenge them for their UNTRUTHFUL, INACCURATE, sensationalist cr@p.

And Helen has only proven, by his stupid statements (When you see the door can't close you know that it is a serious incident....the strength of the New Zealand police who did their utmost to hold it..the police officers "performed superbly".....Helen Clark said she wondered whether she would "live or die") that the further away from microphones and media he's kept the better off EVERYONE, including himself, would be.

[faheel]

So when did Helen turn into a man???
I know she has balls but i thought that was only figuratively speaking:O

[Chief galah]

Head of State in a flying pudding!!!!???
Good grief!

[reynoldsno1]

So when did Helen turn into a man
waddaya mean... "turn???"

[prospector]

Who in their right mind would put a Prime Minister, even the one we are blessed with, in an Aztec in this day and age. Do the bean counters not look past the lowest quote? Surely they must be aware of the FAR part 23 with regard to performance requirements.

Maybe just a spin doctors way of getting John Tamahere off the front page. Very elaborate damage control perhaps.

Prospector

[TIMMEEEE]

Its called cutbacks.

Dont be surprised when she gets rid of the B757 and replaces it with a DC3 or Convair 440.

[tinpis]

Aztruk door pops open?
You go from not being able to hear yourself speak to not hearing yourself think
Put up with it and land.

[NAMPS]

What a joke...a door opening in a lightie is hardly a "serious incident" :yuk:

Surely the "declaration of an emergency" was rather the pilot informing ATC of the intended diversion to close a door.

She would not comment on whether the door had been closed properly before take-off, saying that the investigation would look at that question.

Investigation? Bloody hell - the door opened midflight, so what?

I have had a couple of these "serious incidents" in a Duchess on takeoff...tell the tower, do a circuit, land, close the door, try again :zzz:

[DVDA]

NZ has Jetstreams, Metros, Cheyennes, citations,etc sitting round not doing much. Yet here she is in a farken Aztruk? Perks of the job eh! Good Grief!

[Rich-Fine-Green]

A door popping open on an Aztruk is not rare but a charter aircraft should have headsets and an intercom for all occupants.

[tinpis]

a charter aircraft should have headsets and an intercom for all occupants.

This is New Zealand right?
They probably all sittin on haybales.

[Buster Hyman]

C'mon people. Lets wait for the investigation before making any harsh judgements. Remember, there were four others on board with her, any one of them could've wanted to jump!:ouch:

[LewC]

What was she doing in an Aztec?Was her broom in for a 100 hourly?

[tinpis]

Gawd ...could ya see "Little Johny " in an Aztruck?

[tipsy]

I read somewhere, dear Helen is regarded as the NZ version of "mad cows disease"

tipsy
:yuk: :yuk: fur ball:yuk: :yuk:

[tinpis]

Some other members of her cabinet (http://www.ntnews.news.com.au/printpage/0,5942,12841266,00.html) had of been on board they would have probably battered the pilot with their handbags.

[Kaptin M]

As much as I love New Zealand, I think MP Tamihere's remarks are pretty spot onTHE New Zealand Government is made up of a bunch of "queers" and "tossers", dominated by politically correct and butch "front-bums", otherwise known as women....and not only the Government. Why do so many Kiwi women have short back and sides, and get around in Bermuda shorts??

[Duff Man]

That is the view of the Government's own star Maori MP, John Tamihere - and Prime Minister Helen Clark is unable to sack him because of his popularity with Maori and middle-ground voters.
Mmmmm methinks "national party wannabe"
but the first quote is priceless :}

[prospector]

Kaptin M,
Because it would appear to be the only way to attract the attention of the peoplewho count to score a cabinet post in this Government. A couple of Drunk in Charge of vehicles on the CV also goes a long way, Tamihere has so many it must be a required qualification to be able to tell Uncle Helen where to get off, and at this point in time appear to get away with it.
,

Prospector

[ZK-NSJ]

radio said an inquiry had been launched, maybe they should find out why the 2 coppers didnt use this opportune moment to rid us of that thing, surely a rnzaf kingair was available, they have 5 of the flamin things

[TOPC]

I thought this story had to be a joke

The story has the wrong title. It should read.

"Party bean counters show their true feelings for PM :-"

"The Prime minister of NZ was today allowed by party and advisors to travel in a very noisy old General Aviation unpressurised piston twin."

Hate to see how they treat you if you are on the bottom of the heap.

[gn4p7]

The amazing thing was, not that she was forced to fly in an aztec, but that someone with such an overenflated ego would get into the thing. This is someone who scrapped the combat wing so she could buy 757's and look important when she travels overseas. I prefer to think that the door was stuck closed and the brave policeman were trying to get it open:D better luck next time. :)

[Sir Shiraz]

Pity she didn't fall out !

:yuk:

[TLAW]

What was she doing in an Aztec?Was her broom in for a 100 hourly?

Now THAT made milk squirt out of my nose.

[The Monst.]

I just saw a news update on Ch 9. Vision of an light twin taxiing in and parking nose first in front of a hangar while the reporter comments that the ".....small jet...." had to ".......emergency land."

SMALL JET!!! OMG!!! HAHAHAHA!!! THE PIPER AZJET???

Any wonder the average GA pilot struggles to even put fuel in his/her car!!! The public are constantly fed innacurate and sensationalised crap from the press! If I did MY job the way they did theirs, I wouldn't even get a job in the first place, let alone KEEP my job, let alone stay ALIVE!!! :mad: :{

[Gateway Customer]

Apparently the pilot had a camel's outfit on

[Howard Hughes]

Apparently the pilot had a camel's outfit on

Umm, errr, no, that was Helen Clarke!!

Cheers, HH.

:ok:

[Menen]

On a less flippant note, one has to ask why people seem to think that doors that inadvertently open in flight is SOP for some types of GA aircraft.

You can bet that it has happened on so many occasions that pilots do not enter the defect in the maintenance release or whatever equivalent document is used by NZ operators.

If pilots reported in the maintenance release each time the door popped and under what flight conditions, then you may find that lack of proper maintenance is the cause of the problem. Engineers are perfectly capable at fixing a defective door fitting but first they need to be advised that it happened. And not just a casual remark that the damned door flew open again. But something on the official document so that a trend can be noted and rectified.

Slamming of ill fitting doors inevitably causes a door to pop in flight eventually. If therefore the door is subject to slamming on the ground to get it to lock shut, then write up the defect and get the engineers to fix it before one day some poor bastard gets hurt in flight if loss of control takes place.

Any investigation on the Aztec door incident which started this thread should look at the history of that particular aircraft and see if it has happened before. You can bet your bottom dollar it had and that either the pilots concerned failed to record the defect or simply were frightened of losing their jobs if they wrote up the defect.

[Pinky the pilot]

Ah well, sorry fellers but it looks like you're stuck with Comrade Helen for a little longer yet!:{
But one thing puzzles me. Did she make it clear in her election campaign speeches that she intended to virtually abolish the RNZAF and if so then WTF did (apparently) the majority of Kiwis vote her party in??:confused:
Would someone care to enlighten this poor soul?

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[Cypher]

I voted for the other guy....

but still it begs to be asked..

Head of State....

Twin engine piston

Unpressurised

No anti-ice

Single pilot IFR...

One of these things doesn't go with the other...

[Destabilized]

The Aztec would have been luxury for the Hen: remember the "industrial action" when she tried to fly out of Tulla a couple of years back?

Friend Bracks had VicPol tasked to transfer her discretely to East Sale, to depart via (IIRC) an RNZAF flight. What better "discrete" than the back of a Divvie van, for the 4 hour flog via the Princes Highway. Oh, make that 5 hours, while the crew had a Macca's stop at Traralgon :ok:

I think they took pity about then and let her out for a pit stop, but soon locked her back in before the LTV Bogans took her for one of their own :yuk:

[VH-Cheer Up]

I thought it was pretty standard for the door to pop open on a Piper. It's happened to me multiple times in PA28 and PA 38's... I used to think it was something I was doing wrong. DAmn thing always seems closed and locked until you get to about 500 feet and then "thunk" and the roar of the slipstream (even at a mere 70 knots in the "climb") is enough to drive you nuts.

The two coppers should have just pushed HC into the void, that would have stoppered the gap and shut up the noise for a while. Oh, so long as her head was facing outwards, that is.

Suprised an Aztec carrying that much weight can get in to Paraparaumu. Bet it scared the tourists in the little tea rooms.

VHCU

[Jenna Talia]

I heard and perhaps read on this forum some time ago that Aztecs have been known to experience serious controlability problems associated with a door suddenly opening in flight.

Any experienced Aztec pilots/owners care to comment?

[Kaptin M]

"serious controlability problems" :rolleyes:
Sounds like another newshound looking to make something out of nothing! :mad:

[Spotlight]

Well said Menen.
Ha Ha what a joke for everyone else!
Doors opening on any aircraft are no joke. Does any pilot out there think this operator will receive more work from the department involved in booking this flight? Forget It!
Is the general publics percecption of the safety of general aviation damaged. You bet!
Can doors be complicated things with fragile mechanisms that require close attention.? Yes.

All the door opened legends on this thread, did you each ground the aircraft with an entry on the appropriate log?

[Eimar Moron]

"Almost certainly, it was simply not closed and locked properly.".......or someone was playing around with it inflight!

"did you each ground the aircraft with an entry on the appropriate log? ROTFL, Spotlight.
Sure, IF it was happening on every flight, but it was usually MY (the pilot's) fault for not making sure the upper latch had properly secured.

Like Scrubbed says, "The door opens slightly into the slipstream and it gets a little louder in the cabin. Wow. Major event."

Can't understand the reason for the "MAYDAY"

Helen, Head Honcho of Hobbitsville! Good one, Scrubbed :ok:

Here's another article about the mid air near disaster - names and all - from The Press.
Helen of Hobbitsville's horrifying hour (http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/thepress/0,2106,3247646a6427,00.html)

She texted her mum and dad – "Just made emergency landing at Paraparaumu Airport. Severe turbulence, plane door flew open, bruised arm." What a Hobbit!!

From another article written about a photographer's flight with Mountain Air..
"Everything seemed fine, but there was one thing missing.....THE DOOR! I have pretty much always been up for anything, but "no door?" (http://www.travelersdigest.com/mountain_air_review.htm)

By the way, why does this wo/man use the name Miss Clark - not even Ms? What a put down for so say husband, Peter Davis....but maybe HE prefers it that way!!

[wb727d]

So this is the same P.M that said the RNZAF fighter jets
are nothing more than clapped out pieces of crap, then jumps into an aztec. Go figger !!!

[Sqwark2004]

Yet another news article on the incident

'Prime Minister should have a dedicated aircraft'. 'Gallipoli-not as dangerous' (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10120387)


I'd need to take the gloves and socks off at least 3 other people as well as my own, just to count the amount of times I have had an Aztec door come open in flight. According to my former boss/engineer, 'The Door will not fully open in flight unless it has not been closed properly', and 'You can fly with the door ajar, it will not affect the controllability of the aircraft'.

Saying that, I do recall reading an article in either a Vector or Wings magazine regarding a pilot having to make an emergency landing due to the shocking door system of the Aztec's.

Maybe he had the same problem...

[TinPusher]

Perhaps the pilot was having some difficulty maintaining control due to the two 'gorrillas' diving for the door to keep it closed?? Frankly I don't think the pilot should be criticised one bit as I imagine your comments would be quite different if for some reason they had crashed and the pilot had said nothing.
I do find it quite amazing that a head of state has to resort to tooling around in an Aztec anyway and surely as a minimum the RNZAF should have one of their Kingairs available for the PM's travel, (whether that be Helen or anyone else!)

[tinpis]

And it wasnt as if it was a local scenic either.
Rotorua to Wellington.
Dont they have a King Air or something in the RNZAF?

[Cloud Cutter]

I do recall reading an article in either a Vector or Wings magazine regarding a pilot having to make an emergency landing due to the shocking door system of the Aztec's.
I've read that article (don't remember exactly where) and it's the first thing I thought of when I heard about this incident. I was under the impression that if the door in an Aztec came open in flight it rested at about 45 degrees open and acted like a big speed brake. The guy in this article (I think it was american) wasn't able to maintain altitude - He was the only one on board and had to move over to the right seat and try and hold the door semi closed while he made an 'emergengy landing'.

After reading the replies here I'm rather confused, as it doesn't seem to be a big deal at all. The only light twin I've had this happen in was a duchess, and while it was almost impossible to re-close the door in flight, it certainly wasn't a big deal.

[Atlas Shrugged]

And in other news

A car in my street got a flat tyre yesterday. Passengers had a miraculous escape from the midday sun, retreating to the safety of a shady tree.

[Massey058]

I know that Mountain Air is a very reputable organisaition but I still find it crazy that the Prime Minister has to charter an Aztec to get around. Given that the Crown maintains a fleet LWB Ford LTD's that are upgraded regularly I think it would make sense for a dedicated aircraft to be made available for Government transport (turbine or small jet), crewed by RNZAF pilots and enabling the King-airs to remain free for training and Air Force requirements.

Also given the fact that there was a SIGMET out all day yesterday concerning severe turbulence east of a line NZPP to NZWK and the fact the PM was on board I find it strange that a support pilot wasn't on board. However, weight limitatiions could have meant that wasn't possible I suppose

[rottenlungs]

Hi

Yeah, what is newsworthy is that Helen is flying on, as someone pointed out, an SPIFR unpressurised piston twin.

As tinpis said, it wasn`t exactly a local scenic flight..

Cheers

Lungs

[splatgothebugs]

At risk of getting slagged off I thought I would say a few things about the truck.

Doors come open all the time, I myself have had doors come open and one of the times it was to due not having it closed properly, the other two where engineering problems. In this particular E model the top locking pin wasn't fully extending and locking in place, to top it off unaware to the pilots you wernt actually closing it properly(even though it looked and felt closed) because of there was no top handle to give it that extra inch required for locking.
Anyway as cloudclutter remarked in some cases the door can and will almost open to its full extension and stay open this causes quite a bad vibration through the controls due to the disturbed airflow over the tail plane. When this happens the trusty old AZTRUCK flys like a piece of shizza and it requires alot of work to close the door. the procedure is as follows

1. Open pilots port window
2. Reduce aircraft airspeed (recommeded to get as slow as poss)
3. Close door and relock (all good and well if you can actually unlock the thing in the first place)

Now don't get me wrong I'm not sticking up for uncle helen coz if it was me (well I beter not say) but on the odd case the aztruck can be a bit%h.

Also just a quick note, a couple nights ago TV3 did a poll of kiwis and asked if they agreed with what John said.

"65% of those polled agreed with his comments" and yet shes still in government go figure

splat :ok:

[Jenna Talia]

Splat & others.

Thanks for the information. I knew from past posts over the years that the Aztec has been sporadically mentioned in threads relating to controlability probs when open in flight, as opposed to just a noisy environment.

The Aztec was one of my first twin endorsements (20 years ago) and I only flew one shortly after for about 1 hour. I remember it a sweet handling aeroplane.

Kaptin M - Over the years most of your contributions have provided good reading and suddenly, out of the blue you come out with an idiotic comment that exposes the part time moron in you. Some things just never change.

[nick murry]

Hey Rich, Fine Green

Head sets for all pax???

We are not flying around the bungles!

[cribble]

:yuk: PLEASE stop referring to comrade Helen as "Head of State". Queen Liz is NZ's Head of State. Helen is NZ's Ideologue Socialist Hag.

[cjam]

If tax payers money isnt well spent on maintaining a small skill set , a small strike force, it certainly isnt well spent on a king air on standby to carry out a to b flights for her.....there are plenty of 1900's and jet streams doing those flights every day. Let her fly SPIFR all Bl**dy winter I say......make it an Islander from now on though.
Lucky we have all those artists (read cat-walk models, news readers, flower arrangers) on special benefits where they dont have to apply for jobs outside thier field....they can make NZ so beautiful for us that we wont care what happens away from our shores. Thanks Helen! Money well spent. What a great leader.

[SkySista]

In an article from the West Australian today:

She praised two police officers who grabbed the door and held it in place before the plane made an emergency landing...

Wot? No praise for the pilot? Having someone going so mental over such a thing, not to mention two beefy guys throwing off your balance, s/he deserves all the praise for getting the thing down safely. Don't envy that job, flying her around.

Honestly, before they said who she was I really did think it was a man on tv..... seriously!!! :E

Sky

[VH-Cheer Up]

The door incident is nothing particularly surprising.

What is surprising, however, in this venerable news piece, is the revelation that the Prime Ministrix of EnZed is flying A to B, not driving her Austin A40.

Now that's the welfare state at work.

Just a thought.

VHCU

[tinpis]

Next time get Holmes to give her a lift :rolleyes:

[cjam]

Ha Ha! Nice work Tinpis....The country would probably run well while they were lost vfr over the Tararua's or getting caught by those nasty "surprise" gusts of wind.

[blackwatergoblin]

Pity she wasn't sitting next to a faulty door in a pressurised aircraft.

If the pilot had been a bit sharper off the mark he might have cranked in a load of bank and a boot full of opposite rudder.

Nevermind!!

[Pinky the pilot]

It does'nt get any better you lot! In today's 'Australian' page 10 from a Claire Harvey whom is described as a 'New Zealand Correspondent' she relates..
A worn rubber grommet gave New Zealand Prime Minister Helen Clark the fright of her life when an airplane door flew open mid-flight, forcing the plane intoan emergency spiral.
It gets better yet!!
'Miss Clark said that she feared for her life when the Piper Aztec suddenly lurched and started losing pressure at 8000 feet......
Loved the last paragraph!
'The aircraft's charter operator Mountain Air, investigated the incident and found that the tiny rubber grommet that attaches the lock to the door had worn away.
So it's all explained then.:}

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[HSWL]

Doors don't fly open unless the aircraft has been poorly maintained. If you have to slam the door in order to lock it before engine start then once again it is poor maintenance. A worn "grommett" is proof of poor maintenance - it should have been picked up during scheduled servicing.

The smaller version of the Aztec, the Apache, was particularly nasty if a door flew open. It caused significant buffet on final approach akin to pre-stall buffet. It was impossible for the pilot in the left seat to close the door in flight.

It is possible that a diligent investigation of the Ms Clark incident would uncover shoe-string maintenance going back in time.

Having said that, could it be that the choice of the aircraft (single pilot, cheap, under-performing and dicey on one engine) was made by the PM's staff on the basis that the Parliamentary Opposition would have no grounds to criticise her for spending lavishly on VIP aircraft?

What sheer irresponsibility for any government department to put its public servants lives at risk by jamming them in a heap like an Aztec - and all to give the perception to the media public of a frugal PM anxious to minimise ministerial costs.

[amos2]

Why! oh why!...are you all so unkind? :{

Especially you, M? :ugh:

[RYAN TCAD]

Now this is one of the funniest posts i've come across. :) lol.

Door fly's open on SHE-MAN. QUEEN of the AZTEC!!!

what is he/she - friggen PM doing in a ****box like that?

BTW - how's the NZ economy doing?

Bo!

[Eastwest Loco]

Channel 9 news slant.

(Assume unnaturally low and growly voice)

Today in the skies over New Zealand, the fate of the nation hung in the balance as the country's Prime Minister feared for her life during a major failure of an aeroplane door lock.

An alleged lack of underwear caused uncommanded impact of normally private body parts on necessary controls of the aeroplane causing an uncontrolled descent.

The well trained pilot managed to regain control of the aeroplane and the Prime Minister and her minders were saved from oblivion.

Unfortunately, New Zealand wasn't.

Peter Harvey

Wykikamoocow.

:} :} :} :sad:

Best all

EWL

[gatfield]

Helen flying in an Aztec to me, just reinforces how down to earth she is. She doesn't expect red carpet treatment all the time. I don't care what the rest of you think, I like her.

Oh and and I am just so relieved she didn't fall out from the back of the plane and die. Its good those police were there to stop her being sucked out :ok:

[Eastwest Loco]

Yep Gat

I have to give her that.

It is indeed a responsible thing to do to use a bugsmasher to get from A to B rather than use a RNZAF Boeing, or charter a Lear.

Maybe a genetic transfer into some on this side of the Tasman would be a good thing.

EWL

[Speeds high]

Scrubbed; you been watchen too much CSI

[reynoldsno1]

how's the NZ economy doing?
Very well, due to cuts in public expenditure....:p

[Kaptin M]

Had a bit of a blow out in the PM's travel though!!

[Samuel]

Well, thread digression as per usual:D

It could have been worse; she could have been flying Qaintarse and had her knickers interfered with!

I don't want to spoil all this good humour with a few facts but :

1] I understand her own staff hired the kite at short notice because it was available and they had used Mountain Air previously. She was never in any danger of being 'sucked out', [not in the air, and most certainly not on the ground, not even by those that vote for her!]

2] The Pilot is not a 'hack' and has considerably more than 200 hours. He is, in fact, and contrary to the totally uninformed, a professional.

3] The RNZAF is not tasked with VIP transport, though no doubt had they been asked a Kingair may have been available, though I doubt it. You can't just pluck one off the line at no notice.

[cjam]

I agree that helen should be travelling in either chartered lighties or on scheduled RPT. Anything else will be too hypocritical.
I do remember something about a dodgy missed approach into Hoki with her on board in a King air tho....maybe she does use them every now and then...maybe that scared her off them? Anyone got any info on that?

[Samuel]

While the RNZAF is not currently tasked to provide VIP flights internally,[hence no VIP aircraft as such and I think you'll find most of the requests come through Internal Affairs!] they obviously will do so if asked! The fact of the matter is that such a tasking would have little to do most of the time, and would be considerably more expensive that scheduled airline flights.

Helen is not stupid,[perverse, and intractable, yes] and is unlikely to raise the issue of personal air transport five months out from an election. I doubt it could be justified in NZ. We are much more rational !

There is no comparison with what happens in Australia and, though I won't even hint at the source, there is considerable abuse of the VIP fleet across the ditch!:D There must be more efficient ways for a single PAX to get from Canberra to Melborne!

[John Eacott]

There must be more efficient ways for a single PAX to get from Canberra to Melbourne!

Ask Victoria Police, they're bound to have a spare Divvy van :p

[gaunty]

Unbelievable.

Most of you around here know my feelings about the use of FAR23 equipment in these circumstances given the availability of FAR 25 alternatives.

And before you all mount your high horses its got nothing to do with the competence or otherwise of the operator or pilot or the maintenance condition of the aircraft.

Were I the Chairman of a similarly sized corporation my shreholders and I would be asking for a please explain from the CEO as to why he/she was using the "safe" instead of "safest" form of transport available and putting the corporation in more jeopardy than was necessary.

Of course Helen or her advisors will be most likely be operating from a position of ignorance in these issues. Someone needs to frame up the options and their responsibilities to them and formulate a non partisan policy on it.
It's not hard and removes the potential for ALL of the party politicking, the NZ taxpayer should insist on it.

[Buster Hyman]

-In a bizarre development, NZ Police have issued an appeal for public assistance in what is now considered an attempted murder case.

Police believe the aircraft was tampered with on the ground.

Following lengthy interviews, Police have released an image of the alleged perpetrators. "If any member of the public has information about this person on the left (http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2005/04/08/costume_ent-lead__200x285,0.jpg) we would seek their immediate assistance" a spokesperson said. The person on the right was not necessarily involved, but may have vital information.

[bushy]

And sell them some new aeroplanes??????????????

[the mustang ranch]

oh buster that's a beauty:ok:

your the man

[Sqwark2000]

Owner of Mountain Air, Keith McKenzie, said that the event ws a "one in a million event" If that is the case then old ZK-PIW must of done several million flights in it's time as I personally have been in PIW at 6000' , Night IMC as a front seat pax and had the door open in the cruise. PIW poled forward hard due to A/P on , and with the door open a sudden change in the cabin pressure caused the A/P to think the a/c was in a climb and pitched down to maintain altitude. Others have also said that PIW's door has opened in flight whilst they have been flying it.

Not only is the PM flying in a GA piston twin but it was the companies oldest freight dog machine they provided for her.

I thought that the main reason they chartered Mountain Air was to get them to NZPP as their primary destination due weather (below minima's) in Wellington, and no airline flies to NZPP. Which begs the question as to why it was still at 8000' so close to NZPP. Maybe the weather was on the improve at WN and were going to try there first?

S2K

[jimshutt]

The Truck pitches down alarmingly whether the AP is engaged or not when a door flies open.
Good on you Helen leading by example. Hext time you will get my vote.

[Bill Smith]

Certainly a talking point when he/she has there Air NZ interview :-)

[V1OOPS]

Had a door pop only once in 1000 Aztec hours - I'd let an experienced Aztec pax and PPL close it for me for the first, and from then on, only time. Sounded OK, looked OK, but wasn't OK. Never let a pax close the door again without thanking them nicely, then opening, closing and locking it all over again.

Re-closing it in flight with the window open, slight side-slip only sort of works - usually stretches up the cable to the pins, then they don't work later next time you close it.

As for control difficulties - like a Baron, you might get some slight buffeting at certain speeds, but nothing more. The control difficulties are probably caused by total door/noise preoccupation and little with aircraft aerodynamics. The possibility of a door slightly ajar causing loss of control in a light twin is rather unlikely when you consider pictures of parachutists climbing out all over their old jump planes - with doors wide open and all - before leaping off in unison.

http://www.skydivemonroe.com/picture_gallery/albums/userpics/10037/normal_hangdive.JPG
http://www.skydivemonroe.com/picture_gallery/albums/userpics/10037/beech18.JPG

If there was anything aerodynamically risky in it, then it would also make a water arrival doubly exciting when you follow the sage advice to 'crack the door open' before ditching.

[beatup]

Could someone who has actually experienced a door popping open in flight on an aztec please give a factual account of the effects.
I am absolutely mystified as to what the big deal is all about.
I've had 3 or 4 cases of the main door popping open in a seneca during flight and its not even an issue. The door only cracks open with a gap of no more than 15mm. Lots more noise inside but thats all. Whats all this talk about the coppers having to hang on to the door to keep it shut? Relative air flow will take care of that.
Maybe someone with firsthand experience of this in an aztec will be able to shine some light on this.

[Sqwark2004]

May I suggest you have a look at the posts over the last 5 1/2 pages. There are several posts from people that have experienced the doors opening on the mighty Truck (including the post before yours).

S2K4eva