L1011-200f

[mig21bis]

I am looking info from pilots that fly or flew the L1011-200F cargo. Payload, range, fuel burn, manteinance, personal data, etc. Tks

[411A]

Max payload, 56.6 tons

Max range w/full payload, 6 hours approx.

Fuel burn, 8.2 tons/hr

Maintenance, expensive, but manageable, if you have good folks.

Personal data, nice flying aeroplane, but getting old.

[mig21bis]

looks like a plane between de DC8 and the DC10 in payload.

Yes, all that era jets are getting old but new planes are expensives.

[411A]

Quite true.
If you approach the folks in Belgium/Manaco, keep both your hands on your wallet.
Better yet, keep it locked in the safe.

We know 'em well.:yuk:

[fergineer]

Dunno what you mean 411A!!!!!! One thing to watch on these jets is if you are taking the full 56 tons fr8 you will have very little fuel to play with at your destination!!!!!! Hope the aircraft have been fixed up now, hear that there were some problems with one of them in Thailand something about out of date servicing etc........ If you do get to fly them have fun.

[411A]

I operated 'em when they were new (converted freighters), fergineer, altho I'm told that now they are in somewhat of a sad shape.

And yes, the six hours I mentioned would leave you mighty thin on destination fuel...five hours would be a better range figure.

[Willit Run]

Spent 4 years flying the -200F, 2400 hours, I personally never shut down an engine on the TriStar. 125,000 LBs cargo, 23 upper deck, I think 13 lower deck? Lots of volume; weight ain't everything! We would go to Hawaii from LA every day. max gross weight , max cargo, and thats a five hour flight time. Straight up to FL350. If you maintain them, (like every other plane) they will be fine! Had the biggest cargo door of any western plane. there is no reason you should not make money if you run it right, and pilot salaries won't sink an airline!

[mig21bis]

tks for all the info, the idea is 5 hs and land, no more than that, I personally like the dc8 but use a lot of hs of mant and it has no volume, but a good L1011 looks nice for start up, lots of volume, 56 tons, good engines, cheap to buy, normal to mantain, it is as expensive as a DC10 to mantain, and the aircraft available have good hs remaining, the dc10 looks good also, the DC10-10, but they are more expensive than the L1011, and the aircraft available, have a lots of hours on their back, in general more than 80000 hs of a 120000 hs life. And the DC10-30 is to big for start up. Really the ideal is the 767 300F but is to expensive and no aircraft available, you need to convert them. Tks to all, any other info, specialy in mant and experience on the aircraft will be welcome.

[CargoOne]

One good hint: take a look around.
Do you think that you are more smart than anyone else who missed this "perfect" aircraft? Why do you think almost no one operating 1011F and Belgian/Monaco guys have no success in promoting it (apart from his personal character)?

Marc's birds are 56t max gross payload I believe (52t nett). With this payload it can fly for ~5:30 and still have a legal reserves.

Maintenance is rather expensive if you want to maintain a reasonable dispatch reliability.

If you are approaching this outfit, be sure to count your fingers after every handshake.

Personally I know only one way to make a money from Tristar: buy a passenger aicraft cheap but with reasonable amount of hours remaining, strip it out, register in Africa and fly the bulk cargo as long as engines are running. When it stops, buy the next one. It works.

[411A]

All is certainly not well with the remaining ones in storage either.
The four in VCV controlled by Belgian/Monaco are in rather sad shape, with many parts/engines missing (many simply having grown legs and walked away) and only one is suitable for ops, but it will need a lot of work.
Engine parts are becoming a problem now, especially serviceable turbine discs.
All in all, a fine aircraft which sadly its time has come and gone.
However, had the Belgian/Monaco folks been just a little bit smarter from the start, all could have been flying now.
As in many cases, simple greed got in the way.
Some never learn.

[mig21bis]

Opinion of the A300B2 or B4??? range vs payload??? the thing is that I need something between the Dc10-30 and the DC8, DC8 has good payload but small volume. Tks

5 to 6 hs with max payload and to the ground.

cargoone, I am not smarter, just asking.

[mig21bis]

The DC10-10F is the real rival of the L1011-200F, similar payload and range, 56 to 62 tons and 5 to 6 hs range

The DC10-30F is really not a rival of the L1011, it has almost 80 tons of payload at the same range of the L1011, more fuel burn, more range, etc. Thats why the DC10-30F is a popular cargo aircraft, good payload vs DOC, but you need to put 80 tons of something in it. And it was produced in greater numbers. For what I read from guys who flew the dc10 and L1011, the Lockheed Aircraft is better really, as a plane, but the DC10 was at the right time and at the right moment.

Anyone can help me on the A300B4-200F, I didnt consider that aircraft before but looks good, I need 4 to 5 hs and good volume

[Willit Run]

The A-300 B4 is a mediem range plane. It can do 90,000 LBs and go for about 5 hours, its a great freighter! Lots of volume, 22 pallets top side and nine or so down below! Wonderful plane to fly. Fuel burns almost identical to the DC-8. The B2 was a short range plane with no center tank fuel. The B4 is certified to take off and land at 14,000 feet MSL.
365,000 max take off weight. The airframes only have about 60,000 hours time limit and off to the beer can factory.

[mig21bis]

Tks, mantainance is cheaper than a dc8 or L1011 y guess

[OldCessna]

I believe Tradewinds at GSO used their L1011F for some 13 years operating year round. Dont think they encountered any major maintenance problems!
Their old plane is beating around in Asia now & have not heard of anything not performing.
Gamco, Joramco, BWIA, ATA still offer maintenance on the type.
I think Gamco & Joramco are not expensive either! Like $14 per hour labor!
Parts are plentiful & cheap! Plenty of pilots rated on type around also!
Whereas the DC10 is big upfront acquisition & a maintenance hog!
The L1011 is solid to say the least!
Look after it and it will stay the course!
Crunch the numbers

[ALLDAYDELI]

no DC10F has an available freight payload of 80Tons!
More like 65T on a short sector...

[Hunter58]

The L1011 and the DC10-30 have about similar maintanance cost. The reason for the DC10-30 being much more popular is the plus 12 to 15 tons it carries for almost nothing more of cost. Also it is much more reliable unless you have a very experienced L1011 maintenance crew (which, if you don't have it already you should not count on).

The Airbus is a nice aircraft for some 5 hrs of flying, but you need to be careful of MZFW and MTOW. Some of the early conversions are really bad. Newr ones usually quite good. Maintenance is cheaper than the DC-10 or the TriStar, but not as much cheaper as one would like to have it.

The DC10-30F will fly some 60T plus net over 8 hours (the plus very much depending on the alternate since you only have 20'000 lbs of fuel to spare (MLW-MZFW).

The Airbus will fly some 5 hours with some 40T plus.

Quite some caution has to be exercised in Hot and High environments. The DC10-40F e.g. wich usually is some 10'000 lbs shorter on payload than the -30F beats it after 6'000 ft of altitude, in certain cases (the higher it get the better the advantage) by as much as 15'000 lbs of payload.

[mig21bis]

If you have the cargo, the DC10 is the ideal aircraft. The A300 looks good for medium range, 40 tons. Not burn to much fuel, easier to mantain than a dc8, and more volume. the requiremetn is 4 to 5 hs and stop and lots of volume, more than payload. Most of the cargo is not as heavy but need volume. Tks to all.

[CargoOne]

If you will decide that A300B4 is the right aircraft for you, my advise it to opt for a wetlease from one of Turkish operators rather than your own full operation with own airframe. It will be cheaper in most cases, if you will be able to get the wetlease approval from your Authorities. Turkish operators are bloody cheap.

As it was corretly mentioned by ALLDAYDELI DC10-30F is nowhere close to 80t. Good -30F can take ~73.5t at max structural, but more often you are full volume wise rather than weight wise. -30F is normally considered as 60-65t payload aircraft. Also DC10s have nothing to do with ETOPS and unlike A300 is it really a kind of longhaul freighter along with MD11 and B747.

[mig21bis]

we are cheaper in here in the south of the world :ok:

[Hunter58]

You're about even with the Turkish...

[foxy2600]

Should be 4 of these around somewhere - ex JAL they're like new.
Ten-Forty Corp?

[CargoOne]

Aeroflot is going to replace their DC10-40Fs with MD11Fs...

mig21bis: what kind of sectors you are looking to operate? A300F (excl -600) is a niche aircraft. These days there are only two sorts of operators left on the market with this type: integrators and Turkish. Even if you can achieve Turkish marks then it is still reasonable to go for wetlease from them - it gives you much more flexibility. In real world no one will operate aircraft on their own just for the sake of being "the operator".

[mig21bis]

2 to 5 hrs sectors, 35 to 40 tons, we need lots of volume, south america. It would be imposible to use a TC aircraft here in south america. A300F mant can be done by TACA, Aeroman, so costs inicially are low. And initially the A300F looks like a versatile aircraft.

DC10 is ideal, I love it and study the aircraft a lot, but is to big for start up. The idea is to have dc10 in the future, but not for start up, to much cost. All the mant is on the north i think and It will be very dificult to have 65 tons of cargo from the start up. I was looking also the DC10-10F wich has less cargo, lots of volume, and it will be easy to operate DC10-10F and DC10-30F in a future, but all the DC10-10F have a lots of hs on their back, 80000 or more, and I dont have the fuel burn, payload, mant cost for that aircraft, and is a little to big for start up, but is not a bad idea, same crew for 10F and 30F, same mant plan, etc.

[MaxBlow]

A300B4 facts:

165t max t/o wt
134t max ZFW
142t max ldg wt
max cargo 45t

max fuel 47.9t (if my memory serves me correctly)

burn (full acft) 8,7,6,6,6t

gives you 4 hrs legal at max payload.


Most acft available would be over 45k hrs now. But there're still some parked here and there. Cheap and reliable if you keep them in shape. Most important: Fun to fly!

[Hangin' on]

Having just signed a Gamco chit for US$60 for a roll of speedtape....wow! thats 4 hours work!:ouch:

[mig21bis]

The A300B4 has a airframe life of 63000 hours?

that could be bad but also good, cheap aircraft for start up and be profitable for the first 5 to 7 years, use them, burn them and make them coke cans, after that you need other cheap airframe with some hours remaining or a more modern aircraft, a used A300-600F for example. Just thinking

[Taikonaut]

Here are some of the differences between different 1011s that I haven't noticed on the thread.

The one in BKK is a -1, with 22B engines and no center tank, they are the cheapest to buy (ex-Tradewinds).

-100 has 22Bs and center tank, -200 has 524s and center tank.

-250 is actually a -1 with 524 engines.

If you are really looking make sure that they have already done the spar mod, very expensive.

Also different take-off weight for different 1011s, the most I've seen on a non -500 is 474,000 lbs. with beefier gear mod.

It has been a while for me since I've flown one so please excuse any mistake. All this is from off the top of my head.

Have fun shopping.

[mig21bis]

Tks about the spar mod, I will have it in mind

[GotTheTshirt]

Taik.
The -250 has an MTOW of 512K.
:D

Also there are two L1011-F in BKK.
One as you say is the -1 the other is a -200.
The -1 was the only one converted with a "private " STC.
The other 10 were done by Marshalls and all ended up as -200 with 474K mtow. 6 ex BA, 3 ex GF, and 1 ex LTU
;)

[Denzil]

The EX GF aircraft had the spar mod done at F conversion also a check to ensure all previous SB's had been embodied. The ex LTU didn't have the lower deck galley completely removed at F conversion, just removal of bulkhead/galley equipment and remained as flat floor.

[411A]

Ah, well actually, T Shirt, the -250's are 510K MTOW.
512K is for taxi.
I should know, I fly one from time to time.

[411A]

I have reliably informed that Tradewinds has had their maintenance (and possibly handling) withdrawn at Inchon, due to non-payment of outstanding charges.

Surely not a good sign.
Could the end be near, I wonder?

The B747F guys could be in a pickle.
Still, there are jobs available elsewhere, now.
Fortunately.

[411A]

Seems there's life in the 'ole L10F yet, as I notice that SkyEyes in BKK is presently advertising for L10 crews, based Thailand.
I met BE during the Hadj, and I believe he is the ops manager now.
If so, a very nice guy....have known him for many years.

www.skyeyes.com should do the trick, for those interested.