Latest from the FAAA

[flapsforty]

Latest from the FAAA

[flugenluft]

http://www.faaa.net/showfile.asp?id=832&type=N

The most intelligent notice to ever come from this organisation. They have finally seen the light and realise they can't stop change.

This bodes well for the job security of those QF Longhaul crew who want to move with the times, who I am sure are in the majority. It may also act as an impetus for the departure of some deadwood who remember the golden days and can't face change.

The FAAA has also written itself a future by taking this direction.

[jettlager]

Gee the QF spin doctor team are out in force today.

flugenluft AND qtee all in one morning???????

The word out on line is that the FAAA will be INSTRUCTED by the membership to stick the dispensation where the sun doesn't shine.

[flugenluft]

To the contrary, I am anything but a QF spin doctor. You clearly had difficulty expressing an opposite view so degenerated to name calling.

It has become clear to fellow unionists, the union leadership and observers in recent times that your extreme view is a minority view and the moderates will ultimately steer the direction of the union and therefore the relationship between them and the company. That outcome is very much in the best interests of all parties.

Your prediction that they will be instructed to stick it will be shown to be accurate or not in the fullness of time. However, there are extremist unionists that have posted "The sky will fall on QF" in the past and have always been steamrolled by the moderates when it came to the REAL vote eg the last EBA.

[jettlager]

If not a spin doctor then just what exactly ARE you?

US carriers wont make their crew do this inhumane MULTI SECTOR tour of duty.

Is geoff dixon and his cronies performance bonuses SO important that we have to???

NO.

Tell us why we and NOT the local carriers should be doing it please?

Jettlager

[TightSlot]

jettlager - Your postings on the various QF threads are emotional and aggressive towards anybody who in your perception holds different views to yourself.

This has the effect of stifling, rather than promoting debate within this forum, and therefore will not be further tolerated.

PPRuNe is not an internet billboard for hardliner slogans on either side of an IR dispute. It is rather, a place where issues are debated and facts discussed. Life is tough these days for Cabin Crew world-wide - nobody is immune. Most crew seem capable of dealing with the various issues rationally: QF threads seem to specialise in a level of vitriol that is both uncomfortable and tedious for others to read, and for us to moderate.

[keeperboy]

I agree. I can remember as a kid growing up in Sydney dreaming of working for QF one day. I can't believe how nasty and vicious they get in their posts. Thank god i'm at BA.

A Unions sole role in any company or industry is to represent its members. To see that things have come so far at QF, to the point where people on non-mainline contracts/foreign crews/casuals (my sister included) can keep the airline operating if the mainline crews had a strike is alarming. This process must have been years in the making, not something that was sprung on the FAAA overnight.

How the hell did the FAAA allow it to get this far? They (and its members) should have realised YEARS ago what was going on...and where it would all end up. If you took action back then maybe you'd have a paddle to row down sh*t creek.

[jettlager]

OK Moderator,

I'll tone it down.

"QF threads seem to specialise in a level of vitriol that is both uncomfortable and tedious for others to read, and for us to moderate."

You think it is bad here!!!

Rumour has it that letters are routinely sent out by QF management to crew advising them of instances of A/C vandalisation, sticker campaigns, graffiti on A/C, anonymous emails, the list goes on and on.

We all know who is responsible for the fury that drives people to these actions but with a measured 78% [and climbing???] level of STAFF [not just cabin crew] disengagement you really have to ask yourself where it will all end!!!!!!

"if you dont like it leave"
How great it would be to be in a position to call their bluff.
Gees.............they wouldnt get a single AC in the air with just the senior executives and the "fourth floor fear of flying club left!!!!!"

Jettlager

P.S. Perhaps one day someone will be able to advise us what makes QF cabin crew SO special that we will have to endure the afforementioned multi sector?

[ferris]

Tightslot

An interesting stance. I didn't think moderating was easy, but nor did I think that this site stood for only allowing 'comfortable' posts- posts not so 'tedious' to moderate?

This is a serious issue, one that will affect cabin crew in Australia (and in QF subsidiaries around the world) for a long time.

It seems QF pay people to post on this site- such is it's readership and power- as a form of damage control. The people replying to this spin are clearly the disaffected victims of QFs industrial tactics. They may not be as silver-tongued as the professionals they rail against, but surely they should be heard? Or is this forum only for threads of the quality of "Make a Monarch Girl Smile"?

Even if the information presented only helps bystanders (such as myself) think about whether I give QF my business, it serves a purpose. Personally, I'd rather read a "vitriolic" debate, than a sanitised one, any day! The level of invective used, at times, is necessary to communicate non-verbally the feelings of those affected; imagine how these people feel? The terms and conditions of a job that most of them love, are being gradually destroyed by a group of people who earn millions of dollars annually- and why? So that next year that figure might be 8 million instead of the 6 million it was this year. I'd be angry, too. This is not a fight by the management to keep the airline flying (as is happening to many, these days). It is only about making rich people richer to the detriment of cc.

[flapsforty]

jettlager good of you. Although 'toning it down' is perhaps not quite the aim here.
The aim is to provide a place for vigorous debate. A space where anybody regardless of standing and position, can air their views, debate their points of view and hopefully form an opinion based on more information than he or she had before participating here.

Danny, Robin and the Mod Crew have been at this game for a long time. We have a good deal of experience in what does and does not make for a good and useful debate.
One of the main pieces of evidence to emerge from years of moderating is the indisputable fact that a debate ceases to be a debate as soon as people move away from the facts and get into the personal sphere. Calling eachother names, trying to make eachother out to be stool pigeons, implying al sorts of nasties about eachother.
These allegations might well be true; after all, these boards are anonymous and who knows who is who?
But these allegations do not ever add anything to the debate. Never!!
yes they might be fun to read, yes they might masquerade as 'vigorous' debate, but in fact these threads then become nothing more than a punch up behind the bike shed after school. Or a type of therapeutic venting. We do not wish to provide a bike shed, nor do we wish to provide a centre for therapeutically venting your frustrations.

To have real debate, participants need to argue facts, and possibly how they feel about these facts. That, and only that, will lead to the useful and constructive debate you all proclaim to want.

We do not sanitise nor censor factual debates. We do moderate those posts where the content has descended to a level that will inevitable derail any possibility of debate.

For those of you who enjoy engaging in flame wars, name calling, tantrum throwing, taunting and jibing, there are many sites on the internet where you can find exactly that. In large amounts.
Go there, participate, call eachother names or just enjoy reading a good cat-fight. :ok:
Here on PPRuNe Cabin Crew Forum, we pride ourselves on providing an arena for reasoned, factual, sometimes heated and often vigorous debate.

A place where professional people can discuss things in a professional manner.
As long as Danny wants us here as Mods, we can and will enforce this philosophy. If you don't like it, write to Danny or leave.
We prefer all of you to stay and participate. But the reason PPRuNe is still the best Bulletin Board for Aviation on the internet is because we attract quality people by providing vigorous quality moderation.

And we fully intend to keep it that way.
To reiterate what TightSlot said above, life is tough and often downright rotten for CC these days. In Qantas, but just as much in TightSlot's company or my own. We know exactly what it feels like to have our work life made less and less enjoyable, to have to live with the fact that we by our own management are being barred from giving our pax the service we believe they deserve!! While these same managers line thier pockets with their short term thinking and saving measures, sending the long term prospects for our airlines down the drain.
All of us need to deal with it in an adult manner, stand up for our rights, fight for what we believe in.
And throw our tantrums somewhere else. ;)

[wine o babe]

I can't help but type this as I know that there are plenty of ex Ansett people out there that are still logging onto this thread and wishing to god they still had the jobs they once loved.
The only thing you can possibly do at the moment ( as bad as it may seem) is sit tight and ride out this bloody horrible storm. At least you still have a fantastic job and although things seem as bad as they can get... You are not hearing every month of another crew member or pilot you used to love running into on a transit that has committed suicide. Unfortunately the company has you all by the short and curlys and unless you want to end up with nothing , you have no other choice.
I understand that this sucks... but I would give ANYTHING to be doing those horrible back of the clocks , dealing with arseholes all day long, than doing a ****ty job getting paid F.... all for it.( and still being abused for nothing) Just realise that some of these..Strike breakers.. are people like me who have no choice if they want to continue flying, to be a god forsaken Strike Breaker.
I myself did not chose to accept the contract, because I didn't want to harm the fulltime F/A's careers as the rumors ahd already started about strikes being the only option.
I really hope that Qantas eventually see the light before they ruin a fantastic business and the lives of fantastic people.. however I just dont think they ( Management ) care.
I would hate to hear of a repeat of what happened to us 3 years ago where there was that much inter- fighting that we didn't even see the collapse coming.
Look at the bright side , if you don't do this what the hell are you going to do. Especially to earn this kind of money and travel around the world for nothing.
I know that there are plenty of people that are doing anything they can to just"get in to Qantas" purely for the benefits.
Life can certainly be a LOT worse

[flugenluft]

In the fullness of time, the extremists will be shown to be in the minority. The FAAA has an intelligent leadership who take direction from the majority moderates. The moderates will decide the future between QF and the FAAA, not the radicals. They will just go on being petty putting stickers on planes and embarrassing their colleagues.

<edited by flapsforty>

[jettlager]

Moderator,

Sorry to bother you but would you kindly ask flugenluft to desist with his personal attacks.
Thankyou.

Jettlager

[flugenluft]

<edited by flapsforty>

[The Matirx]

This move by the FAAA is very sad.

Flugenlift, next time you are working on a B767, come up to the flight deck (if you are in fact CC)

I would live to engage you in a full and frank 'chat' about your unhinged views of QF


Matirx - B767 Capt

[qfcsm]

Hope this is on topic but just heard that the FAAA have "secured" the future of it's current exec by approving a 10% pay increase for MM....!!!!

So the 3% negotiated by the FAAA for its members wasn't good enough for them....!!!

What gives?

[GalleyHag]

So flugenluft, where are you? Off having a coffee break, smoke maybe? I think qfcsm needs a serve of your militant extremist diatribe dont save it all for poor jettlager.

[flapsforty]

As flugenluft is either unwilling or unable to follow the simple guidelines that govern the use of this forum (as explained by both TightSlot and myself on this thread) he/she will not be participating any longer on this thread.