View Full Version : Axis C47s?

Onan the Clumsy
5th Apr 2005, 16:04
I've got this desk calendar that says:The Douglas C47 served in many airforces, both Allied and Axis, and was beloved in all of them. Now ignoring for a second the use of the comma before the word "and", I want to know...exactly which Axis airforce was using C47s?

I'm assuming they're not talking about Milo Minderbinder renting some to the Luftwaffe to cover shortages due to "maintainance backlogs" either.

5th Apr 2005, 16:14
Ah ha!

Luftwaffe C-47 (http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/Aircraft/Dakota.htm) scroll down a bit.

I am amazed...

And post war...

Link... (http://www.transall.de/html/flugzeuge_dc3.htm)

Treadders (doin' some Googling till it's time to go home...!)

5th Apr 2005, 17:14
The pic in the Luftwaffe C47 link looks suspiciously like a DC-2 - which seems to be confirmed by this Dutch site


Apparently one of a number of KLM aircraft grabbed by the Germans in 1940. A C47 it ain't, but there's a lot more info here (http://p069.ezboard.com/fluftwaffeexperten71774frm60) on both DC2's and DC3's used by the Luftwaffe.

6th Apr 2005, 06:15
Recall reading that the Japanese made the DC3 under licence and in some quantity - 500?.

6th Apr 2005, 12:58
The Russians built a flock of 'em under license as the Lisunov (sp)? Li2.

6th Apr 2005, 13:06
You're quite right Gruntie, I just thought it was a badly drawn C-47! :p

7th Apr 2005, 20:19

I think the Li2 had the door on the starboard side. If so, anyone know why?

8th Apr 2005, 02:29
Loki, I'm guessing here because I can't find either one of the couple of books I have on the DC-3.
American Airlines were the first to order an improved version of the DC-2 which they outfitted with 14 sleeping berths, calling it the DST - Douglas Sleeper Transport. This larger version of the aircraft had the door on the starboard side, for reasons I've forgotten. Somebody noticed that instead of 14 sleeper berths, the aircraft could be fitted with 21 day seats. This was the aircraft became the DC-3. That may have been the version that became the Li2. :hmm:

Boss Raptor
14th Apr 2005, 11:29
Courtesy of Russian Air Force contact;

During World War II, the Sovjet Union needed immediate airlift capacity which it found in the form of an already proven transport aircraft of the time, the US American Douglas DC-3 / C-47 Dakota. From 1943 onwards, no less than 700 US-built C-47 were delivered to the USSR under the lend-lease scheme.
Parallely, the Sovjet Union had acquired the patent to built a derivative of the C-47 under license. Boris Lisunov, who had stayed with the Douglas Aircraft Company for over a year, modified the DC-3 into its Sovjet counterpart. It was initially named PS-84 (PS simply standing for pasashirskii samolet i.e. passenger aircraft) and only renamed the Li-2 in 1942. It resembles the DC-3 / C-47 externally to a high degree. The use of different engines and other details such as additional windows behind the cockpit and a right hand side passenger door (also used on pre-war DC-3A in the US!) distinguish the "Russian DC-3" from its Californian parent.

Apparently as original US design had the RH side pax door and these were the plans passed to the Russians...

Onan the Clumsy
14th Apr 2005, 14:33
The Australian National Aviation Museum (http://www.aarg.com.au/DC3.htm) Our aircraft was originally built by Douglas in July 1941 as a right hand door DC-3 277D with Wright Cyclones, for delivery to American Airlines as NC33657, but was instead impressed direct from the production line by the U.S. Military as a C50 "41-7698".

DC3 Aviation Museum (http://www.centercomp.com/cgi-bin/dc3/stories?1915) distinguishable, like all AA DC-3's to follow, by the passenger door located in the right side of their fuselages.

Pic from Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=544833&WxsIERv=Qbhtynf%20QP-3%20%28P-47%2F53%2F117%2FE4Q%2FFxlgenva%2FQnxbgn%29&WdsYXMg=Nve%20Pnevoorna&QtODMg=Fna%20Whna%20-%20Yhvf%20Zhabm%20Zneva%20Vagreangvbany%20%28FWH%20%2F%20GWF W%29&ERDLTkt=Chregb%20Evpb&ktODMp=Whar%2025%2C%201978&BP=1&WNEb25u=Zvpx%20Onwpne&xsIERvdWdsY=A285FR&MgTUQtODMgKE=Abg%20pneelvat%20vgf%20ertvfgengvba%2C%20guvf%2 0nvepensg%20vf%20vqragvsvnoyr%20ol%20univat%20gur%20cnffratr e%20qbbe%20ba%20gur%20bccbfvgr%20fvqr%20gb%20abezny.%20Gunax f%20gb%20Nyrk%20Jvffr%2C%20n%20cvybg%20bs%20guvf%20nvepensg% 20sbe%20gur%20vasbezngvba.&YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=304&NEb25uZWxs=2004-03-30%2000%3A00%3A00&ODJ9dvCE=&O89Dcjdg=&static=yes&width=1200&height=729&sok=JURER%20%20%28nveyvar%20%3D%20%27Nve%20Pnevoorna%27%29%2 0%20BEQRE%20OL%20cubgb_vq%20QRFP&photo_nr=9&prev_id=551410&next_id=540048)

Another pic (http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=539400&WxsIERv=Qbhtynf%20QP-3T-202N&WdsYXMg=Nve%20Pnevoorna&QtODMg=Fna%20Whna%20-%20Yhvf%20Zhabm%20Zneva%20Vagreangvbany%20%28FWH%20%2F%20GWF W%29&ERDLTkt=Chregb%20Evpb&ktODMp=Whar%2025%2C%201978&BP=1&WNEb25u=Zvpx%20Onwpne&xsIERvdWdsY=A16096&MgTUQtODMgKE=Byq%20znexvatf%20ner%20ivfvoyr%20haqre%20gur%20 cnvag%20ba%20gur%20sva&YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=340&NEb25uZWxs=2004-03-23%2000%3A00%3A00&ODJ9dvCE=&O89Dcjdg=2136&static=yes&width=1200&height=686&sok=JURER%20%20%28nveyvar%20%3D%20%27Nve%20Pnevoorna%27%29%2 0%20BEQRE%20OL%20cubgb_vq%20QRFP&photo_nr=11&prev_id=540048&next_id=538594)

15th Apr 2005, 09:48
There you go, list of all captured DC-2 by the luftwaffe and a few pictures as well, it's from the "Luftwaffe Experten Message Board".


15th Apr 2005, 17:18
In addition to the Germans, the Japanese military also used the DC-3 during WW2. They built it under licence as the L2D ("Tabby" to the allies).

See for example here (http://users.belgacom.net/aircraft1/avion1/207.html) and here (http://www.douglasdc3.com/japl2d/japl2d.htm)

Stephen D. Stafford
19th Apr 2005, 21:21
The Nakajima L2D2 [Allied code name "Tabby"] was licence built at $90,000 cost from the Douglas Co., along with two unassembled DC-3's. Quite a bargain. Mitsui was buying them on instruction from the Japanese Navy. A total of some 487 in various versions were built, some using partial wooden construction. A cargo loading door was installed on the port side. "Remodelling" precisely coincided with what Douglas was doing with the C-47. Some were captured by US Forces at war's end, ending a recognition nightmare.

Onan the Clumsy
20th Apr 2005, 02:47
The Nakajima L2D2 [Allied code name "Tabby"] was licence built at $90,000 cost So a DC3 for less than the price of a new 172...and probably cheaper to run as well :confused:

Ignoring inflation of course :ugh:

20th Apr 2005, 07:55
The DC3 crashed at Bamaga, Australia (VH-CXD??) has a right hand door. I suspect it came from KLM or KNILM who for some reason specified right hand doors on their DC3's and DC5's.