Instruments and ops today

[escobar]

Is it just me or were the ops and instruments exams today quite hard? I reckon i'm going to be running it quite close to pass them, plus isn't the amount of fire extinguishers needed on board an aircraft a systems question???????/

[escobar]

In fact can anybody remember any of the questions from today? I can remember a few like in instruments why is the pitot tube away from the wing or something like that?

[IWANTWINGS]

Took the instruments exam myself today...thought it was a fair exam really..only a few that got me thinking! Compared to the nasty perf. exam on monday it was a pleasure i'd say!

first question was about the why the pitot tube is positioned away from the fuselage...others included

Constant TAS and temp goes up, wot happens to Mn?
45N, wots the earth rate error of DGI and direction it turns
Altimeter blockage, wot happens
Wot feeds the altimeter
All the usual stuff really!

Quite surprised there were no CRP-5 questions...spent a while last night making sure i could still remember how to use it!

[escobar]

pitot tube hopefully was to get it out of the boundary layer?
mn remains constant
10.6 right
stays at the same level of blockage
static

[High Wing Drifter]

I'll stick my neck out a little :uhoh:

>>mn remains constant
Hmm, I think it would reduce; as temp rises so does LSS (MN=TAS/LSS)

The Earth rate error is -10.6deg/hr.

[escobar]

mmmmm was sure mach number would remain constant as mn is inndependant of outside temperature? Also the earth rate was 10.6 but didn't it say right or left, i think i put right

[Send Clowns]

Get your CRP-5 out and test it, escobar. Put in a temperatore of -40°C as an example, check the Mach no. corresponding to 500 kts for example. Then change the temperture to 0°C, and check again. What happens to the Mach number?

In the northern hemisphere Earth-rate drift is always negative.

[escobar]

if you are climbing witth a constant cas mn and tas increase? and hence descending mn and tas decrease?

Never took my crp into the exam but it may have helped with mach number, eas to cas and what equals what after position and instrument errors are discounted :-(

In fact just thinking back to yesterdays exams i had a total idiot day. What does the pfd do? engines and alarms, aircraft systems, weather, or aircraft flight path. I knew it was flight path but something in my brain kept on saying to me the pilots check the pfd for the auto throttles position so i ended up going for systems, got 71% last time i sat instruments and made three silly errors and this time i reckon i\'ve done the same BLOODY STUPID :*

[Send Clowns]

Always take your CRP into an exam for which any of the calculations can be made or the relationships checked. Even if you think you know as in this case, or you know the formula; if uncertain you can use the CRP to make sure you are right!

[escobar]

stupidly i generally do take in the crp to exams, even had it for my comms but was so confident about instruments and ops yesterday, thought i knew enough for a pass in both, clearly not. The ops paper revolved around stuff i had studied for systems, and couldn't really remember yesterday, but when i got home and got out my SYSTEMS notes i found 9 bullet points, almost one after another on one of my personal hand written SYSTEMS study notes of questions which were asked in ops, and it looks like i got all 9 wrong :-(

In case anybody is looking at this thread who hasn\'t sat any atpl exams yet. As previously stated i reckon i\'m very close to passing or failing both the ops and instruments papers from april and have just sat random ops and instruments papers on the bristol online website, which seems to be quite good, and got 100% for both. You have to either be very lucky or know your subject inside out, not just 90% of it, like i think i know for ops and instruments.

Sorry i\'m just bitter

[High Wing Drifter]

Oh! I didn't want to invoke worry. If it is any consolation escobar, I got the ones wrong that I thought I got right and the ones right that I got wrong. Like you I would do the post mortem with the notes and find all the questions that I got wrong. In reality my worst subjects came up best and visa versa. I thought I failed Gen Nav, I was conviced and I mean really really really convinced. When I got my results I felt like a fool for worrying so much.

The worry does tend to play tricks. You just can't tell.

Good luck :ok:

[escobar]

I'm a natural worrier when i want something and have to wait for it. Bottom line is I can generally come out of exams and know if i've failed passed or am close. Called all my exams so far,12, apart from met which i managed to pass. I know for a fact that i've got 9 marks wrong with ops, possibly 11, however i'm damn sure i've got 36 right, out of 51, which puts me in with a chance.

Also with instruments i'm confident that i've got 35 right out of 56, with definatly 3 wrong, still in with a chance

I want wings, don\'t suppose you can remember any more questions from the exam to kind of ease my stress?
cheers

[escobar]

Problem for me was that i knew the facts that they asked for the systems exam.
How many fire extinuishers, halon extinguishers and crash axes on board were covered in systems not ops.
Also the question with you have 60 passengers on board at 80nm from shore how many life jackets should be on board was a bad question as what about the crew. If it was 60 including the crew then you need 60 life jackets and 3 life rafts but the answers were 60, 0, none if there is life rafts or 66? Thats a nasty question i went for 66 due to the fact that it wasn't 0 if there is 60 passengers then you need crew life jackets and i'm sure that you still need life jackets on a raft. Also what happens when landong with heavy rain, a choice of 5 and the answers didn't contain increase speed, make a firm landing and systematically use dumping devices, however those 3 choices were part of the 5.
Another question had 2 right answers so i thought it was a trick and went for a totally different answer which is probably wrong

[Mosspigs]

According to my books it is 60 life jackets.

The question stated it was 80 miles - so no rafts are needed and the 10% extra is for O2 masks.

It makes sense really, you depart the aircraft with your LJ on and don't inflate until outside the aircraft. If it is dodgy, when you are splashing around in the oggin, are you really going to swim back inside and get one of the 10% extra?

If it was 60 including the crew then you need 60 life jackets and 3 life rafts but the answers were 60, 0, none if there is life rafts or 66

What is the thought process behind that? Single engine is 30 mins or 100nm, multi is 120 mins or 400 miles. The question made no reference ot speed as far as I can recall.

[IWANTWINGS]

There was a fair few on flight directors i think... the usual ones about it being centered if you're on heading to intercept the correct track...that kind of thing.

rate 2 turn, nothern hem, 90 degree turn from 270 to 360...wen shud you level out. i put 330 for that one.

landing northern heading, wot does the DR Compass indicate... = no apparent turn.

Wot has a gravity errector = AH

once glideslope has disconnected it uses radio alt for vertical speed, something like that (or at least that was my answer!)

Mode 3 warning on GPWS = DONT SINK DONT SINK

Basic stall warning inputs (cant remember all options)

Wot will GPWS give warnings for (again, cant remember the options!)

Inputs to the ADC, or mite have been what are the outputs.

one about thermocouples..2 dissimilar metals etc.

Disadvantages to the float type fuel gauge

ahh, im bored of thinking now, that'll do!! lol
im sure you'll pass, you can get 14 wrong (as long as they were all one markers which im sure they were)

[moo]

I contested one of the questions in the instruments paper that went some thing like "When the FLIGHT DIRECTOR is engaged in the LOC mode........" as Flight directors are on/off, and it is the autopilot which is engaged in the loc mode (or app mode) and although the crosshairs will follow ILS signals, the flight director does not have a LOC mode itself. Think I got the answer right as to what they were looking for, but you never know!

[escobar]

haha believe it or not i reckon i could have easily got 14 wrong, i've tried to remember the paper but have had a total blank, thanx for the help on intruments.

With regards to the 60 life jacket question, i can't quite remember the question, but i seem to remember it asking how many life jackets are needed on board when you have 60 passengers. Now i think that the crew need life jackets as well, or have companies now decided that its too expensive and have done away with crew safety equipment :O

I wonder when pilots will get sued by their employers for go arounds etc?

[Mosspigs]

How many crew need life jackets? How many crew on board? How many cabin crew? Are they carrying a Cabin service Director? Are there two crews as it is the last 80 nms on a ultra long haul flight?

There's no point second guessing. They asked for passengers, and said there were 60 passengers. That and the distance is the only factual info they gave.

Either way, it is too late to worry about it. This is a great lesson to learn about making a mistake in the air. Once it is done, you can't undo it so put it out of your mind, or as sure are eggs is eggs, thinking about it will lead to another mistake.

God I sound old. Anyway off to put my slippers on and listen to the wireless!!!!

[escobar]

If they want actual procedures and they said there was 60 passengers then the answer is 60 if they said 60 seats then its not as clear, and whilst not sure i think they said 60 seats. Anyway i'm over it, had hpl today and have decided that whilst i'm not totally happy about it as some questions weren't not related to pilots or flying, i'm not going to moan about the exam this time :O

[Patty O'Doors]

Moo

It sounds like your knowledge of Flight Directors and/or Autopilot's is confused.

The FD directs you and you can select just about any mode you want including ILS LOC and GS. The difference when the AP is engaged is that it now flies the plane and the FD just agrees (hopefully)

I hope you've passed and you won't need this bit of information. If you've got any questions PM me.

[IRRenewal]

The difference when the AP is engaged is that it now flies the plane and the FD just agreesYou're sure? I'd say the FD still tells what it thinks is required, and the AP follows the FD (hopefully).

In other words, the FD is the bit that works out what is required, the AP (or you) is the bit that executes.

Therefore, the FD is the bit that is engaged in LOC mode, and supplies the appropriate roll commands to intercept and then follow the localiser. Whether you do this yourself or let the AP do this for you is not relevant to the FD.

Gerard

[Alex Whittingham]

I'd agree with Gerard.

[Patty O'Doors]

Now look guys. The FD and AP are independent systems which take information from the relevant sources and then compute what needs to be done, if this is not the case then losing the FD will cause the AP to fail.

Now that's not sensible is it??

So neither follows the other but they should agree.

..and before anyone says, "There's only one AFDS computer" have you actually looked inside and seen that the FD and AP circuits are seperate and independently redundant.

[escobar]

Does anybody know if any of the questions in ops or instruments were appealed?