Air Scotland and the Beoing 737?

[WOWBOY]

There has been rumours going round that air scotland will be giving back their 757 and will be recieving 2 737's>

Is this official?
if so when could this all take place?




WOWBOY

[jabird]

Wouldn't that make much more sense & enable CDG etc to run as a daily service?

What series though - huge difference seat wise between a -500 (132?) and an -800 (189?).

[Lite]

What I've never understood about Air-Scotland is their use of the Boeing 757-200 other than that they may have been available at the time of launch. I realise that this airline is technically a charter airline, however, by marketing themselves as a no-frills airline, they ought to have at least some no-frills qualities like at least daily flights to destinations, fast turnarounds etc.

I remember when discussing aircraft types with some people at MYT before I left, that the 757 cannot be turned any quicker than 50 minutes. Quite a long way from Ryanair's 25-min turn.

[EK-LHR-LGW-GLA-MAN-B]

I dont get why peopel moan about GRE having a 757, they full it feequently so why should then not use it? they make more money from it than they would with a 737.

[Irish Steve]

the 757 cannot be turned any quicker than 50 minutes.

All depends on how many pax, what number of bags, and the size of the crew loading it.

OK, it'll never turn as fast as a small 737, if for no other reason than it takes a bit longer to get the equipment up to the holds to get at the bags. Having said that, a fully loaded 737 800 isn't going to turn in 20 minutes either. I know, I've done them, and charter 800's are usually scheduled for about the same as the 757's, about an hour. Anything less is asking for hassles, delays, or both.

The worst combination is a charter 757 single cabin class, so about 240 seats, on a winter ski charter during the school holidays, by the time you've got all the skis, boots and the rest of the bags out, then the outbound bags in, 50 minutes is indeed tight.

A "normal" bucket and spade is not quite as bad, it can be done a bit quicker.

Summer student charters from Spain to Ireland are a nightmare, I've seen them arrive in with all holds stuffed to the gills with bags, and it then takes close on an hour to get them unloaded, let alone load them for the return leg, I think the worst count we had on one of them was 445 pieces, and anyone that thinks that little tiny students only pack little tiny bags is in for a big shock!!!

Transatlantic scheduled 757's are no fun either, Americans are very good at packing 75Lb monstrostities, and they always have more than one of them!!

Remember that people like FR who are aiming for 20 minutes are also working on a much lower bag count than charter flights.

Best I ever managed, which was with a good crew, and we worked like h:mad:l to do it was a First Choice 757 that arrived in late, and we couldn't get a slot extension for the outbound due to late night limits at the destination. It was full both ways, (so about 300, maybe 320 bags off and on) and it was on blocks for under 40 minutes, which included fuel. What also helped was that the landing roll was long, so the brakes weren't too hot when it arrived on stand, otherwise it would have been with us for longer.

Given the ferocity with which some 737's arrive and stop, I have often wondered about the implications of a late take off abort after a 20 minute turn round, and what sort of stopping performance would really be available from the brakes. If I stop and think about it for too long, the answer is that I probably wouldn't want to know!:E :E

[billyg]

I'ts official this afternoon in the Scottish press! The airline are to increase frequency on the GLA- AMSand CDG routes from August to 5x weekly. They will also start long haul using 2x ex Air Transat tri-stars in July flying from GLA to Miami , JFK , Havana and Toronto! We await with baited breath!

[GoEDI]

I'ts official this afternoon in the Scottish press!

No, nothing is official, maybe you should link to the article? They haven't got permission yet. Nice looking destinations if they get them though, can't imagine why many people will be choosing them over CO, TCX, Zoom though! Unless you're a Tristar fan. ;)
Can't quite see why the want to do this, I believe it is just to get one over on Flyglobespan for a change, although I can see it backfiring....

[CHIVILCOY]

GoEDI what makes you think it will backfire?

If making negative comments please give some reasons and your expertise in the field for making them.

[GoEDI]

GoEDI what makes you think it will backfire?

That's my opinion, they're planning on operating 20+ year old aircraft, that's not going to be cheap. They are planning on competing with CO, Zoom, TCX. I imagine they will struggle to beat other YYZ prices. If they are planning a July start that only gives them 3 months to sell tickets before they begin on routes where most people will already have booked on other carriers.
IMO, another couple of B752s would have done just fine as a starting point for long haul ops, especially as they are already operating one.

[EK-LHR-LGW-GLA-MAN-B]

US Airways operate 20 year old aircraft and so do MANY other airlines over the pond so why cant GRE do it? They will also increase frequency on GLA-ATH

[Caledonian]

Do you know what it might just work out what they are trying to do, l am not a huge fan of the whole Greece Airways tie up with the AOC but they seem to be progressing after a tough start so they get my backing.

I wonder if Boston would be a good city to fly to because Northwest seemed to do very well on that route but pulled it due to a shortage of aircraft.

We should all get behind this because the more flights to major destinations from Scotland not Glasgow or Edinburgh "Scotland" the better.

Just some food for thought Glasgow is the airport l favour as its close to home etc but do you think this kind of operation maybe favoured by GRE from Prestwick Airport.

[GoEDI]

US Airways operate 20 year old aircraft and so do MANY other airlines over the pond so why cant GRE do it?

I'm not saying they can't, they are going to aren't they? I just don't think it's a good idea to start with Tristars, however old they are, 20 years or more! B762s are somewhat more up-to-date than Tristars, regardless of the age of either type. The oldest B762s must 20 years old, the oldest Tristars must be 30-35 years old. I really don't think you can compare a large operation like US to GRE though, and who are the 'MANY' other airlines? Sorry for being the pessimist here, but I think there's a reason why there are no Tristars frequenting Transatlantic routes these days. B752s, or even some 20 year old B762s;) would have been a better bet, I'm sure.

[Speedtape]

Tristars !:rolleyes: About 10 hours worth of maintenance for every hour they fly and amongst the worst of those still out there are the Air Transat ones. Expect loads of tech delays;)

[kpiko3]

I believe it is just to get one over on Flyglobespan for a change, although I can see it backfiring....

I agree with you GoEDI.

In the end I can see globespan coming out winners here, they are playing it right at the moment and not jumping into things, and they are the ones in the better finnancial situation than Air Scotland!

If that 777 does eventually appear for Globespan, Air Scotland are skating on thin ice!

Kpiko3

[10 DME ARC]

I luv the L1011 but this sounds like the kiss of death to Air Scotland?

[Meeb]

I luv the L1011 but this sounds like the kiss of death to Air Scotland?

We live in hope.... :mad:

[Willie Wallace]

GoEdi and pickinhis nose

These are typical Scottish numbskulls.

They hate to see anything Scottish do well.

Remember I was betrayed by the easterners

Willie Wallace

[Oshkosh George]

I'ts official this afternoon in the Scottish press! The airline are to increase frequency on the GLA- AMSand CDG routes from August to 5x weekly.

Not quite! They are not now going to start UNTIL August,and operate 5x weekly from then.

[benedictus]

The CDG route has started already, not sure about AMS though.

[charterguy]

The L1011s mentioned earlier do not belong to Air Scotland (or Greece Airways dba Air Scotland). A Lebanese company has put these aircraft on the Greek register and is hoping to operate these using Greece Airway's AOC. This of course means that any flights from the UK to destinations outside the EU are subject to 5th freedom traffic rights. I think someone at Air Scotland forgot to do their homework ?

CG

[Oshkosh George]

You are correct. I wasn't aware of that.

[nef]

Charterguy,

I had exactly the same thoughts as you on this matter - surely they can't have made such an elementary mistake! I'm not sure how this will affect applications to the US/Canada, but I'm really sceptical that they'll be allowed to operate to Cuba. All seems like a terribly late rush job.

[charterguy]

Nef

These L1011s are all ex Air Transat, but guess what, Air Transat will be the first to object to any 5th freedom applications for flights between UK and Canada !!

Not sure why Air Scotland don't do the decent thing and get themselves a proper U.K. AOC like everyone else. Greece may be in the EU, but that's about it.

CG

[nivsy]

I just dont get it! If Air Scotland are trying to be serious in the market why do they use B 757's from Greece/ Are they wet leased? everyone that i have talked to have had mega delays. There relationship with Air Holland went down the chube. I think Air Holland did as well!! And while the L1011 may be nostalgic to some....come on...what serious airline nowadays wants to operate it? Are there not hundred awaiting their graves in the desert in Nevada or somewhere?? Quite agree Globespan seem to have a bit of a better idea of operating from GLA/EDI than Air Scotland...just hope there is room for both to be a success cos' by god Scottish airfields need it!!


Nivsy.

[newscaster]

They are also planning to serve two Iraqi cities http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=461872005 and possibly Pakistan and Thailand as well all via Stanstead.

[charterguy]

Newscaster

Thanks for that link, but 'genuine' UK carriers can and probably would object to direct flights. I wonder if the owner of this 'ticketing outfit' (Air Scotland) is aware that Greece Airways (who are the actual airline operating Air Scotland's flights, and who are registered in Greece) would require 5th freedom traffic rights to operate these routes. Obviously not, otherwise they wouldn't be feeding this nonsense to the press ! ??

The only way this might work is with an intermediate stop in Greece. And if you can't fly non-stop, you might as well book with a proper airline like Emirates and have all the inflight comforts etc.

There are far too many people in the UK who think that all it takes is a pinstripe suit, a corner shop and a cellphone to start offering low cost services to Pakistan ;-)

CG

[EK-LHR-LGW-GLA-MAN-B]

GLA-ATH will also go 5 weekly.

They announced today plans for flights to Baghdad aswell as all the other new long hauls announced last week.

[WOWBOY]

Are the 737's due soon?????

[nivsy]

I have not heard of any delivery dates for the piggy jets. They did (Air Scotland) get bad press last week. Had a 757 chartered to bring Liverppol fans back to John Lennon airport. Pax did not turn up on time and the scheduled flight ex GLA to Malaga i think it was was delayed by a number of hours which upset the pax naturally. Plus Air Scotland seemed to be pretty poor in informing them all of the delays. Any further news on the L1011's? Still think this is a recipe for disaster!!


Nivsy

[GW76]

Last I heard Tristar deal was off.

[GoEDI]

Pax did not turn up on time and the scheduled flight ex GLA to Malaga i think it was was delayed by a number of hours which upset the pax naturally

Furthurmore, because of that, the EDI flight after that was delayed for 8 or 9 hours, so not only did Air Scotland manage to upset one flight load of passengers, they managed to upset 2 loads, from two different airports! :* For the sake of a bit of extra dosh I presume, they sacrifice the possible repeat business of hundreds of passengers, presuming that any potential passengers haven't already ditched them by that point!
Will they ever learn?! They have one aircraft! Why must they insist on doing charters for other causes, especially during their busier summer schedule?!:rolleyes: