Merlin in Iraq

[ORAC]

BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4407109.stm) Nothing against the Merlin or the lass, but who pushes publicity like this?

Amazing surprise, a girl can fly a combat helicopter, lets put her piccy in the press. Obviously the most important fact concerning the deployment as far as the MOD and BBC are concerned. :hmm:

[swampy_lynx_puke]

:confused:
One has to ask why?
To demonstrate the Expeditionary Capabilities of the RAF or because there isn't Strat Lift available to do the job properly?
One Merlin to Basra to replace the Chinooks - sounds like a fair trade.
Rarely has so much b%^^%x been printed in aid of furthering the careers of so few
:*

[Pontius Navigator]

<<to the Saudi border to help Iraqi security forces combat smuggling>>

So she is going to a friendly border not one of our enemies.

[spinstallaeropfl]

Is it SOP to wear CS clothing out in Iraq...? Wouldn't a desert pattern flying suit be more appropriate or is this not suitable...?

SSAP

[Spurlash2]

There's more than one Merlin (and girl :D) in theatre, and if JHC actually bought and issued desert flying suits, yes, that would be more appropriate.

[Pilgrim101]

""""aircraft's infra-red heat ...""""

Obviously the BBC can't spell "thermal" either ?:8

Let's hope the Beeb are part of our psyops disinformation campaign, if we have one ? Would explain all the other guff emanating from the Bulls:mad: t, Baghdad Broadcasting Corp (I know, the BBBC ! ) :8

[Amateur Aviator]

Desert Flying Suits for helo crews. What a great big can of worms that is! Congratulations for opening that one. I could bore y'all for ages, but it would appear that JHC are happy to take the risk (on our behalf!?) to fly in desert dpm. Why not just give us petrol soaked rags to fly in instead. Just about as fire retardent.We're all hoping as well that all the stewards within eating command are happy with theirs.

Frustrating is not the way to describe this........

:mad:

[dmanton300]

Amazing surprise, a girl can fly a combat helicopter, lets put her piccy in the press.

And where exactly in the article does it say "Flt Lt Penny Grayson, who is a girl and surprisingly enough can fly helicopters so we decided to photograph her 'cos it's like, really cool and stuff!"? It doesn't, does it? The quote in the article is from her, and the picture happens to show her posing in front of the helicopter. I'm sure the jokes would have been flying if she'd been pictured and the quote was from Gregory Thompson or something like that! If there's one thing as bad as PC, it's misdirected anti-PC, it helps no one. Everyone would be ragging on the Merlin if she hadn't been pictured (hmmmm . . . perhaps the MOD are cleverer than we think?). Because she's pictured people are on their high horse about the token girlie. Wonder if similar comments would have been forthcoming if the pilot pictured had been black?

And as for expecting the Beeb to focus on the important bit - the Merlin, well, you really shoudl know better!

[spinstallaeropfl]

AA

Thanks for the info... did wonder why the Air Stewards and Air Stewardesses were waddling down the aisles in desert flying suits yet the lads and lasses in the BH world are either not wearing them out of choice or just can't get the right kit.... if it is a flight safety hazard wearing CS in the cockpit, why is it not reported as such..?

D300

Will Penny be taking part in that all girl flypast over London (May or June I think)... what's all that about then?

SSAP

[jimgriff]

At a recent presentation by the RAF Crash investigation team (medical) it was shown that the CS kit is not very good when it comes to flame resistance and more than one crew mwmber has suffered serious burns from not wearing regulation flying kit. But I understand that something is being looked into regarding this.

[markerboy]

The very same happened over the desert flying saga, at the opening of GW2. All the shinnies had theirs and the boys doing the real stuff had to wear either CS95 or hometown green. As long as the AC on the HS125 kept them warm enough in the desert flying suites!!!

[Amateur Aviator]

Jimgriff,

This has been done. But how long did things take after GW1? You think things have gotten any better?! Work is in progress, but even before the trial starts, I can say that there are some fairly serious flaws in what has been presented to us, and the changes suggested are (at the moment) being frankly ignored/blocked (IMHO) by certain strains of aircrew and/or desk- sucking pen-pushing blotter-jotters who try to prove that flexibility is not the key to air power. At least what they have given is fire retardent.

If you hadn't guessed, I feel rather strongly about this, but I am not in a position to be able to do anything about it.

It s~cks!

[Doors Off]

GW2,
mmmm A certain AAC Regt decided to issue desert cams in the following order - HQ Staff, REME Tradies (must keep them happy), Ground Crew and then they ran out. Aircrew going across FLOT flying around in CS95.
Inspiring stuff, but it must have been the right way to do it, the CO at the time just got his Other Buggers Efforts (OBE) in this years New Years Honours List.;)

[CNI MSG]

I think the desert DPM doesn't burn quite as merrily as standard CS95 although I may be wrong.

To be honest, we've been wearing desert DPM to fly in for the last 2 years and I personally wouldn't have it any other way. It's far more comfortable and adaptable than desert flying suits and nobody mistakes me for a Tristar steward...

[snafu]

Personally, I've worn desert DPM whilst flying in theatre and it was more comfortable and significantly cooler than desert flying ovies would have been. The additional factor that would make me choose the DPM every time is the ability to look like one of the boys and girls on the ground, whether that is walking around one of the bases or in the event of going downbird somewhere. This may not be an issue for the AT or FJ communities, but for an SH crew, the ability to look like a normal member of the ground troops and blend into the background might be useful. Not all of us need to broadcast that we're aircrew to the world at every opportunity.:}

Admittedly, if we've gone downbird, the existence of the helicopter nearby might be a bit of a giveaway, but it all helps!

[Brain Potter]

We only wear "desert flying suites" on the "shinny" fleet because they won't let us wear KD and pith helmets.

[heights good]

There is a trial just about to start for DPM flying CS95, apparently it identical almost to normal CS95 but has the fire retardent properties of flying suits. When they get delivered im sure they will be exactly what we need ;) Last time i was at St Mawgan and seen a set that they were trying out. It was ridiculous, it felt like an NBC suit and rustled, shockingly bad, no self respecting member of the aircrew fraternity would be seen dead in it. Hope its not the same stuff!!

Only thing that worries me, flying suits are so much better for drinking and pulling in!! :O

[StopStart]

It's already being trialled here. Users not terribly happy with it. Seems to be a lot thicker/rougher than normal CS95. Also excessively hot apparently.

Expect to see it on your kitting list soon! :ok:

:rolleyes:

Potter, I thought you had a dispensation for pith helmets?

PS. Agree wholeheartedly with heights good's last comment :)

[scientia in alto]

There are many issues within this 'hot potato' topic. I think that it must be said I have worked in both flying suit and deserts in theatre. It has to be said that I prefer to work in a flying suit as it offers a MUCH higher degree of protection from flash fires. This may not be a big issue for the boys working in the cabin who are not strapped in, but for a stick monkey the likelihood is that you'd be exposed to any fire for a much longer period[straps, shooters and guns peventing a swift exit]. The other plus is they were designed for aircrew and again when strapped into a seat, they have pockets in places that can be easily got to.

The other issue of 'blending in' also holds less water when you stand next to a heap of potentially burning wreckage. i.e. no I am not really aircrew... but I agree there is not normally UK forces around here... oh, and yes that is an RAF rank slide. So it wouldn't take the brains of an archbishop to work that said person is aircrew.

Deserts may have worked slightly better against a conventional enemy, but all of the current threat groups will slot you anyway; most likely with a blunt spoon whilst on TV! All said if aircrew can get the kit, they should wear it as it could save them a great deal of pain and potential death. I do know if people could get it through the proper channels they would wear it, however politics dictate that it is not funded:mad: :mad: :mad:

SIA

[airborne_artist]

oh, and yes that is an RAF rank slide. So it wouldn't take the brains of an archbishop to work that said person is aircrew

Why not take the slides off - who really needs to know that you are Squabbling Bleeder Bloggs once you are strapped in?

[H Peacock]

Saw a few CS95 outfits at Henlow following some burning/flash fire trials. I believe the trials were as a result of a Puma crash in the Gulf a year or so ago. It was quite clear that the CS95 was almost worthless compared to a proper flying suit, but also the lack of suitable underware (longjohns and rollneck, not just a teeshirt) also contributed to the severity of the burns.

Its hard to resist the temptation to dress for comfort, and I know accidents are few and far between, but I guess it comes down to dressing to survive (if the bloody kit is available in the first place!)

H Peacock

[Pub User]

In my experience the vast majority of RAF SH crews wear some kind of ground pattern equipment when in an operational theatre. The reasons are many and various, my own reasoning was normally based on practicality, in that it is easier to live in an operational environment (normally tented or very basic) in ground pattern clothing.

One or two people I know used to put a flying suit on on top of this clothing when flying - for the fire retardent properties - but I don't think they'd be doing that in Iraq temperatures.

CS95 is known to have poor fire resistance, and was (is?) banned aboard RN ships for that reason. Funny that is was good enough for the hardy souls manning the Green Goddesses a couple of years ago though!

[MG]

As someone else who is involved in the trial of the non-FJ, flame-retardent AEA, yes it is a bit thicker in its temperate DPM guise. It does feel a little scratchier but that wears off after a couple of washes. Once the trial has been successful, it will be issued in a lighter weight desert version with the same flame-retardent qualities as the desert flying suit. There has been no DPM suit in a flame-retardent material so far because the technology simply hasn't been there, believe it or not.
The trial suits are, in style, exactly the same as CS95 and, therefore, there are the same problems with belt loops and snagging etc, that the SH force has always encountered on ops, only this time, you're not going to go up like a Roman Candle. Surely, a good thing?
Overall, apart from a few small niggles, we think that it's a positive step and think that it can't be issued soon enough. One drawback:- It's expensive and once your tankie on the ground sees it, they're all going to be putting in a bid for some! Why not? Your average tankie and Warrior rider is as at much risk from fire as us in the air!

[vicky10]

For your info not that you are interested the stewards on on 10s & Trimotors have no choice but to wear dessert flying suits by order. Ask them what they think next time they pour you a gopping cupper and you will find that they would gladly give them up.

[ORAC]

To summarise, if I understand. Those that have have, don't want them. Those that need them don't have them. SOP.

[vicky10]

After May 5 The Airforce will be broken up. All Fast jet assets will be transfered to the navy and will thus be known as The Fleet Land Arm, All rotery [nearly there] And AT assetts are to be
handed over to yes the Army. Flying suits and blues are to be returned to clothing stores if they are open? Or is that wombat supply wing????????
It will solve the clothing issue you can all dress the same.

[Gainesy]

dessert flying suits

What else would a steward wear?:)

[Arkroyal]

Were these the Merlins I saw landing at Nice (NCE) a few weeks back?

[WokkaCrewman]

Re: H Peacocks statement about wearing long johns and roll neck.

I agree that in the normal temperate environment there is really no excuse for not wearing the correct AEA but it is completely impractical for aircrew to wear that amount of clothing when working at +55deg C. The risk of becoming a heat stress casualty is far higher than suffering burns. Also given the fact that the risk of getting rounds into the cabin is higher than the aircraft catching fire and the fact that an extra layer of clothing provides zero additional ballistic protection I think I'll opt for the comfier option of DP's. And I'll say an extra prayer to the god of procurements asking for some better body armour!

[Triple Matched TQ]

Nice to see SOME of you RAF boys can even get the correct kit for the area you are about to operate in.

Our thick Civie friend who issues (??) our AEA thinks we only fly in Cornwall and if you are not scaled for the clothing .......well. Basically no chance of the desert AEA's for us, apparently "they don't make them anymore"

How do our Army pals find getting the correct AEA?

[Compressorstall]

But - does anyone know how the Merlins are doing in Iraq??

[Pontius Navigator]

The Merlins are doing brilliantly in Iraq.




If you read the RAF News.





and, as Mandy Rice Davis, they would say that wouldn't they.

[Compressorstall]

So, does anyone actually know how the Merlins are doing in Iraq, despite creating a clothing debate?

[Weezer]

They're doing very well. There's a pretty accurate report in the latest edition of JDW.

[Pontius Navigator]

Or to re-phrase the last answer, do you really expect closed stories from an operational theatre to appear here in real time?