"Stopover crippling Aer Lingus" - minister

[akerosid]

Martin Cullen said yesterday, while replying to a Dail question, that the stopover is "crippling" Aer Lingus and also raised the possibility of t/a flights from ORK. He added that, given the right circumstances, he saw no reason why SNN shouldn't be able to maintain and grow its t/a services.

This is a very interesting and welcome development; not even SB went as far in criticising the stopover. With the stopover expected to be among the issues to be decided by the cabinet next week, this seems to signal an intention to move. Of course, that all depends on the EU giving the green light. As a matter of good faith, having already held us back a year by its insistence on cabotage, it should allow a deal, but I guess we'll see. Even a small change in the Shannon/Dublin ratio would be very beneficial.

[Cyrano]

Yes, the first sentence of the Irish Times report caught my eye:

Minister for Transport Martin Cullen has said the Shannon stopover is crippling Aer Lingus and the real threat to the future of Shannon is to come from Cork airport, as it will soon be launching transatlantic services.

Unfortunately the full transcript of what he said is not available on the Dáil website yet.

Maybe a Cork transatlantic service (including a walk to/from the aircraft in the rain) could qualify as performance art and hence be eligible for City of Culture funding? ;)

[neidin]

If John Smyth was still at ORK - they would get T/A flights. He was tight with CO and they were really looking at ORK last SEP. I think that scheduled T/A from ORK to USA is highly unlikely until they get their act together in ORK.

A330 is really too big for EI ex ORK and there are few 757 operators who have now got spare capacity T/A. Charters T/A to Ireland are almost non-existent now except of course for the 100,000+ USA combat troops annually through SNN. Those troops thankfully will pay for the EURO 1.50 per passenger that Ryanair will get paid for every passenger on their new services to SNN.

I would say the Minister was off message with such words on SNN. A bad political move - but good for aviation.

[Tom the Tenor]

Sure, it would be great to see Continental at Cork - the sheer thought of it! CO should have some extra capacity in the next year or so when they take up eight Boeing 757-300s from ATA thereby releasing some 757-200s for new long haul European flights. However, dreams are one thing and the reality is another - just do not see Continental starting Cork and at the same time also pressing on with services from Shannon as there would be a great reduction in yield flying from both Cork and Shannon?

Aer Lingus would be the best bet for the job but I concede the A330-200 just has too much capacity for Cork. However, with Willy Walsh now in a different green and pleasant land(!) I guess it could always be within the realm of possibiltiy that EI could wet lease a 757 for North Atlantic services from Cork? I mean, why not if attractive lease rates are available or go even further and do a deal with Airbus for A319LR? Have little idea of the figures but I might guess a load of abut 130 pax on a long range A319 could be possible to New York?

I am more upbeat now than in more recent months about an eventual direct North Atlantic service from Cork. In some ways Shannon is becoming less of a threat to Cork in this endeavour, I would be more worried about how the Department of Transport conduct the overseeing of negotiations. The Civil Service is certainly not known for thinking outside of the windowed brown envelope

Cork will have to prove itself on this one but then again Cork Airport and her new board have a lot of proving to do on many other major issues too, eg, navaids, ramp space, runway, airbridges, the treatment of gifted, loyal and interested staff like Mr John Smyth. The decades of shabbiness that has cursed Cork Airport in many ways still haunts the place and if what it takes is to kick, scream and drag Cork Airport forward well so be it: kicking, screaming and dragging it will be!

[akerosid]

The tea leaves are lining up (it's Barry's Tea, Tom!) for the stopover being eased off ...

- The SNN Airport authority launched a new plan, in which they anticipated the stopover requirement being relaxed by next year (to 1 in three flights) and gone by 2005!

- A decision needs to be made on Aer Lingus; deciding to sell x% of the airline is only part of it; someone has to persuaded to buy it (and incidentally, to lead it); will this be possible if they don't make any more.

Still no movement on Canada, though!

[Bearcat]

ehh Tom we have been up this road before re ORK and Trans At flights. I hope for ORK it does happen but the thought of getting off Rwy 17/35 with its current rwy length is a write off to most types except I think a 757. The rwy length is a disaster. Another even 800 ft would solve a lot of probs. Even if the bilateral were shelved tomorrow morning AL couldnt do it I dont think with the 330 200. I stand be to corrected.

Rgds

Bearcat

[Tom the Tenor]

At Cork it is the same old story all the time - lack of runway. This is what it always boils down to at Cork. Pure and simple, all of this has been to protect Shannon Airport's status and this has choked Cork's prospects for years and years - this is something that people need to know.

Unfortunately, there is little room for manouever at the runway 17 threshold at Cork before you have to get into the filling in of the valley and I guess that would drive up the cost so hugely that the job would never be done? At a push and with having zero civil engineering know how my guess is that there is just about 250 feet available to work with for extra runway. Then, there would be the knock on effect of having to reconstruct taxiway Alpha onto the ramp.

There was one exceptional take off from Cork a few years ago when an Air Atlanta/Aviajet 767-300 flew directly from Cork to the Dominican Republic. She took off from runway 17 but I am told she was already spooling up the power as she taxiied on taxiway Alpha prior to thundering her way down the runway for takeoff on her long transatlantic flight! Some feat, sure enough.

In a more routine day to day environment a 757 or A319LR is about as much Cork could do using the present runway length? An American Transair 757 flew empty from Cork to Cleveland, Ohio in September, 2003.

However, Cork has got to start somewhere with the North Atlantic!

Just another brief update if I may - Continental are about to have winglets installed on their 737-700 series aircraft. Should give improved take off performance and range.

Another candidate for EWR-ORK? Sure, would need ETOPS certification but CO have good experience in that department.

Possibilities?

[CCR]

There is no problem extending at the the end of runway 17 at Cork!! (Before rwy 35 threshold). If the new Cork airport authority is serious about competing for traffic to the US...NOW is the time to lenghten this runway!!!!