Roadmap to a succesfull career as a pilot

[krobar]

I want to be a pilot.
Like that guy on the flight center brochures. I want a jacket with plenty of strepies on it, a hat with wings on it, and an aeroplane that people say has a raised roof cause I'm sitting on my wallet.
Whereto now?
Step 1. PPL
Step 2. CPL
Step 3. ATPL
Perfect, now i'm a airline pilot.
Wait a minute!!! Looks like there's something missing in between...

With all the experience floating around on this website, maybe someone can fill in the blanks.
Whats best after the CPL? Bushpilot, Instructor, Operations(sticking nose into cockpit as often as possible), Charters or is there something better?

[B Sousa]

After Cpl and you have lots of money, become a Stud Muffin. Get yourself a Corvette (Chevrolet) a Big Watch and lots of the hot hosties to ride around. It will make life more interesting while your building time to get that real Airline Job......AND you will then be prepared to live the proper Airline Pilots life.

[Rhodie]

WHY I WANT TO BE A PILOT

When I grow up I want to be a pilot because it's a fun job and easy to do. That's why there are so many pilots flying around these days.

Pilots don't need much school. They just have to learn to read numbers so they can read their instruments.

I guess they should be able to read a road map, too.

Pilots should be brave to they won't get scared it it's foggy and they can't see, or if a wing or motor falls off.

Pilots have to have good eyes to see through the clouds, and they can't be afraid of thunder or lightning because they are much closer to them than we are.

The salary pilots make is another thing I like. They make more money than they know what to do with. This is because most people think that flying a plane is dangerous, except pilots don't because they know how easy it is.

I hope I don't get airsick because I get carsick and if I get airsick, I couldn't be a pilot and then I would have to go to work.

:E

R

[I.R.PIRATE]

Krobar, I mentioned before in some of my previous posts, how I believe, you can build up experience. Now this is obviously MY point of view, others will differ, but its my opinion.

I firmly believe that jumping straight into the right hand seat of an airliner, is probably the worst thing you can do, in terms of building your OWN experience. Yes its probably the coolest, and most macho thing, to be a 800hr airline pilot at the age of 19 or whatever, but consider this.... You have to decide what you want out of aviation, before making these decisions. If its all about the money, the glory, and the lifestyle, then break your balls to get that right hand seat in a regional or something like that. BUT...if youre after experience, skills, interesting places, and to become the best pilot that you can be, I would suggest starting right at the bottom, like flying 206's in the swamps or something similar. There you are going to learn what this game is all about, in terms of challenging flying, and the politics involved. Its a great first job, and after a year or so you will walk out of there, feeling that you have achieved something for your first year of being a pilot. What I find rather sad these days, is that people are forgetting, that at every little level in the flying game, there is a lot to be learnt, whether you move up from a 210 to a Baron, and stay there for a while, its a great learning curve. Next go from a Baron to a Chieftain, or 402. This current trend to wanna run and jump onto the fastest, biggest, coolest machine, is really causing most guys these days, to miss out on so much experience that is available, but as I said, only you know what your reasons are.

Next I would suggest getting yourself a turbine rating, whether its a Van or King Air, and getting yourself into the contract market. Here you will find the most challenging flying that is available to the average Comm pilot (who doesnt own an Extra 300 or the like). Yes...the lifestyle and places you will sometimes have to live might be very harsh, but in the end, you are gaining invaluable FLYING experience, not autopilot jockey time. And the money is good, compared to most jobs in SA. The one pitfall of contract flying, is that people can become dependant on that $$$ salary and lifestyle, and when that airline interview comes around, you realise that you cannot in fact AFFORD to move to the airlines. I would suggest keeping some $$$ stashed away for that time when you've gotta go from $ 6000 p/m to R6000.

I absolutely believe that any pilot who enters the airlines with ..lets say 4000 hours built up outside of that protected environment, is way ahead, in terms of actual FLYING experience, than the co-jo who landed his first job with the airline at 800-1000 hours, and now also has 4000 hours. Obviously, as I stated before, only you will know what YOUR reasons are for wanting to become a pilot, and those reasons should dictate which path you follow.

Do remember though, where you started. Most hotshots are rather keen to forget the days of pistons and hotstarts in the bush with a dying battery etc. Dont ever refuse to fly, purely because you feel the machine is below your requirements of coolness. It sickens me when I hear hotshots, saying " No ways, Im not flying that Baron, or 210, Im a 1900 driver, who do they think they are expecting me to fly that piston rubbish." Come on guys....pistons have feelings too..!! Cherish that whole learning curve, that made you who you are, beacause in the end, it might just be some of the lessons you learned there, that will save your life.

Hope you find something usefull here, good thread, Im keen to see other responses.

I.R.P......:ok:

[ANVAK]

Good analysis IRP - first question is always: Why do you want to fly?
If its a thing in your bones, a drive, an urge, if there is simply no other choice for you - then you will find a way to get there come hell or high water...
If you have to choose between flying and some other career - don't fly.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Mr Pirate, sir...

It's unfortunate that airlines don't hold your view of contract flying. I've been told that I have too much bush experience on more than one occasion while the charter Jimmy was offered the job as he had the relevant experience operating out of Lanseria, PE, et al.:(

As you say, the contract stuff is the most enjoyable (and terrifying) flying you'll do, but it's not held in high regard by the big shiny jet folks.

Ah well, back to the phones/faxes/emails/knocking on doors......

[krobar]

Thanx for reply Pirate. Thats exactly what i was asking for.
I've found that a lot of careers in aviation are shaped by who you know. Apart from going to certain bars in kempton park and drinking with da boys, i suppose during many years of differing jobs I would get to know the right people.
Who knows, maybe you guys run into me pretty soon...

[Fliterisk]

Dudes, I have seen some very qualified guys unemployed and vice versa. Its becoming more and more about who you know and not what you know.

Meet people, meet people meet people. Do lots of leg work... it takes perseverance and tenacity to work in aviation in SA/Africa. Also as someone said above, dont get caught up about flying in an airliner at age 19. Aviation is about flying. If you want a job sitting on an aircraft become a hostie - its easier to get there:D Having said that there are many of these guys who fly privately and then go to work on the "jumbo". Also not knocking these guys but as previously said - what do you want out of your career?

Good luck... get out there and make it happen!!!!

[Shrike200]

Dont. Thats the best advice I can give. Honestly, take the money you would have spent on training (lots!), invest it in a 'proper' education, and later fly for fun. Don't get me wrong, the flying side of the flying career is fantastic - I couldn't do anything else. BUT, and its a big but, the career is atrocious. Somebody above said something about 'don't jump too quickly into an airline seat'. I can only assume they were joking - thats not even remotely possible. 800 hour airline pilot - puh-lease! Maybe it does, or used to, happen, but not if you're a self sponsored white male, forget it, unless you REALLY know somebody who can pull strings for you, or you're prepared to get milked for a conversion a la Nationwide's 'Pay-as-you-go' plan.

Don't kid yourself - you will be taking a serious financial knock for a very, very long time. Sure, the top positions *can* be well payed, but the return on investment (if you consider the financial side only) is truly terrible. And don't forget, one day you will have a family who must also pay the price, with you spending time away from home (especially if you do contract work, something that is quite likely), and also possible job insecurity.

I enjoy my job - I really do. But to do it all over again? Well, I might reconsider. I have seen what I, and others like me have to put their wives/families through, and it's really tough. Are you sure you want to do that? There are plenty of pilots out there. You won't be particularly special.

I know this is quite negative. If you met me in the street, you wouldn't be able to tell I feel this way - I do my job to the utmost of my abilities, and I truly enjoy the flying side of it. But I would like to warn those who choose to start in this career: Think twice, then twice more.

Good luck, whatever you choose.

[AfricanSkies]

Change your Number 1 on your list to :


1. Buy a F*&(^ing great big alarm clock :E

[I.R.PIRATE]

Shrike, I cannot agree with you more. I too cannot even think of doing anything else, than to fly. It is the greatest job in the world....in the worst industry in the world. I dont regret any minute of it, but doubt if I would do it the same way again. Fly for fun....

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Shrike's got it!:ok:

Listen to your mother, become a lawyer or doctor, make big bucks and buy a V-tailed Doctor Killer or a Baron. You can then fly when YOU want to, and where YOU want to, instead of jumping through hoops while putting your neck on the line to keep the directors in 4X4s and sports cars.:E

[AfricanQueen]

You guys are a bunch of pafs. It's the best job in the world, whether you're flying charter or for an airline. And when you are flying domestic routes for an airline, it is the closest to a nine-five-job doing what you love as you can get.

Think about all those poor suckers looking up at airshows, wishing it was them flying. Bite the bullet, do your CPL and then work your way up any way you can. The rewards are priceless.

[I.R.PIRATE]

You're also right AfricanQueen. We are PAFs ......

POOR...ANTAGONISED...FLYERS

But yes I hear you, and fully agree, however, in the coming days, there will be a LOT of frustration for someone starting out in this game right now. What I'm saying is that if I had to consider starting a flying career right now, it certainly wouldnt be in SA.

BTW...ask the 1-time guys about 9-5 flying, you might get a surprise QUEEN.

[contraxdog]

I have to concur, with my friend IRP there. Brilliant contribution old man!
Richard Bach wrote ( for you who hasnt read Gift of Wings, Jonathan Livingston Seagul , and all his wonderful books) that life/carreer is like flying over a river delta with branches splitting everywhere. Choose a branch and go with it. Let it lead you to the next split in the river. Let the destination be yours and not someone elses's wake you are trying to follow.
* Learn to fly
* Learn to fly better
* Enjoy the learning( it was your choice remember).
I have 14 types on my Licence, I enjoyed working in each and every one of them. If I look back on a 20 year flying career, each and everyone of them , taught me something else about flying that I sometimes see lacking in the youngsters that I fly with.

A C177 taught me, that sometimes we ask/expect too much.
A C210 taught me, to always be careful because you can get bitten.
A310 taught me it doesnt have to be pretty to do the job
A C402/1 taught me about conserving fuel.
A C404 taught me to believe in angels, and aerodynamics, and why I dont want to be an Airline pilot
A B200 taught me, that sometimes the makers got it just right.

So I can carry on an on.

Remember a journey is not about getting there, its about the the way you got there.

If you reason to be a flyer is pure you would not want to miss any part of it. I surely dont.

My advise would be to read IRP's post again.

PS. SRT regarding the misconception about contract flying experience. Quote SAA Training Captain:"..airlines have altered the way in wich they viewed this invalueable experience. It is now viewed as such depending the company you kept..."


...the time has come, the walrus said, to speak of many things. Of Pirate ships and sealing wax and cabbages and kings.. :ok:

[I.R.PIRATE]

The one thing that I have to add to this thread, is wait let me start over....

There is a serious gap being created in the " education " and experience levels of the newer members to our community. This is however NOT their fault. The industry dictates the way that most pilots grow. About 10-15 years ago, there was a thriving charter market in South Africa, and most if not all pilots got to cut their teeth in that very challenging, treasure trove of experience. With the advent of the regional airlines, and the smaller destinations that they started to serve, the low cost airlines, and our mighty CAA who has effectively destroyed General Aviation, that schooling opportunity does not exist anymore. Now the guys have to hoes up a few thousand bucks, and instantly get themselves onto a turboprop somewhere. BUT, those very important building blocks, of building P1 time, and the whole decision making process, are being skipped. This is blatantly obvious in many of the newer generation flyers, as many of them would not be able to plan, and execute, a single pilot charter in horrendous weather, into some little shytehole strip, who knows where. BUT these same characters are commanding 1900's and 200's, or sitting in the right hand seat of airliners. That decision making process has not been learnt, and that, unfortunately, is the keystone of being a professional operator.

BTW. Contraxdog....

The B-200 has taught me......OH DAMN, just shot my load again...:hmm:

[sa172pilot]

Remember a journey is not about getting there, its about the the way you got there.

.. and the best way to get there is to FLY!...

I like what IRP is saying here too. I'm still PPL, getting too old and still dreaming. Quickest way (if I had the cash) would be those 9month ATPL's and a Type Rating.. but that would definitely be the least satisfying. I'd rather be a happy bush pilot than unhappy airline pilot. Now just to convince the missus :-)

[I.R.PIRATE]

And there you have it....the choice these days....suffer and learn, or pay for " experience ". The biggest misconception these days, is that if you have an ATP and some sort of type rating, then you are a PILOT. haha....takes a little more than that boys and girls. Was wondering if anyone knows of another profession where you can buy your " experience ", and the job you want??

[Shrike200]

Pafs! Queen, you sound like a person who has never done contract work. So, when you got your charter job, then your RJ job, did you really struggle? Was it tough? Sorry, I'm being antagonistic :D But quite frankly, if you've never sweated out there in Africa, and only flown in SA then you don't know what many have been through. You just DON'T know.

But really, please tell me you've sweated a bit out there in the field! Another thing I would like to know is: Did you start in the aviation industry direct from school? I have a genuine desire to know. I didn't, and I know from experience that many (most?)other fields are FAR more evenly balanced than flying, ie the is not quite the massive oversupply of workers (depending on the qualification of course).

As I said - I love flying. But to someone starting out, I would advise caution.

[captaincrunchie]

Hi Guys,

Reading a few of the previous posts, I see there are a few Contract Pilots out there. I was wondering what the conditions of your contract are......pay/leave/working conditions/weeks off etc.

Perhaps some of you would care to share your experiences with us. As I see it, most young pale males are going this route, so I feel they should prepare themselves for what is to come.

CC

[wheels up]

Great posts by IR pirate and Shrike 200. Flying is a crazy business. I fully agree that the pilots who skip out the grass routes flying ie. instruction, charter, bush, contract flying are missing out on a whole bunch of fun. No doubt about it - when you eventually get to fly the big shiny jet you will miss the days flying simpler craft.

Whatever you do, don't get into this industry with blinkers on your eyes. Speak to pilots that have been there and done that. You will probably be suprised at how many would not choose the same career route again. That said, for some of us flying was not a choice but a compulsion that had to be satisfied.

[MAINROTOR]

Well, now...

Reading the above posts, it looks like flying is just a career for most of you guys and one that you would not choose again.

Yes, like with every thing and every other career and job there are things that aren't nice, but deal with it and go on.

I ask you, why did you start flying? Flying isn't just my career, it's a feeling that you can't describe, it's a life style and above all it's my life and passion!

[Shrike200]

No, thats not it. 'Life and passion' will only get you so far. It depends on your attitude to things. Myself, I prefer balance, and flying is not balanced. In other words, I can't balance the needs of other areas of life with flying, like being with my family etc. If you can do without those things, or you have been fairly lucky in your career, then thats what no doubt prompts you to feel that 'its your life and passion', despite what obstacles you may have faced. And who's to say that others have not faced worse? Surely you must admit that you would not continue to fly if it wrecked all your other goals and desires in your life?

My point is that newcomers should think of the ultimate goals they want to achieve in life - something that is difficult to do when young. Flying as a 'career' may not allow you to achieve them.

[wheels up]

Well put.

Flying affords you some fantastic experiences - however it comes at a substantial cost, financial and otherwise.

Make sure that you understand these sacrifices are going to be and then decide if it is worth it, especially after the honeymoon period is over.

[MAINROTOR]

Shrike200.

What you say is true, but I still maintain my point of view. Balance in life is important and the trick is to balance those other things in life (of which family are the most important) with the flying, but my scale is always just a tad heavier on the flying side.

We all have had our share of obstacles and most of us still do .You need to way all the odds and ends. One needs to know what you let yourself in for, when becoming a professional pilot.

Like you said; it's about attitude, but without a positive attitude towards flying and the job, the warning signs are there. If someone is not enjoying flying or moan about the work and type of life that, that particular flying work allows him/her to live; why do you fly?

I know; everything is not always a “honeymoon” and times can be tough, that I most definitively know…! But, I'm a firm believer in a positive attitude and outlook towards life.

That’s why I belief that the foundation for a successful career as a pilot is a love and passion for flying!

[Beeech19]

I agree its a tough time to start this career as a youngster but at the same time im also a firm believer of a positive attitude towards anything in life. if you want to make it work and you work hard at it then you will!

SA is a tough industry to get into, airline's for that matter but hey, its not the only country in the world man, i have mates at Cathay(South Africans) and they loving it, wifes are happy too. The airline industry in the far east is on the uprise, they need crew man, and your SA ATP is still excepted in many places, the middle east speaks for itself and you can still have a ''normal'' life for what its worth and earn a descent salary doing what you love most. Maybe its good we have these pessimists posting here because that negative attitude might be the reason you dont have the job you feel you deserve.

just go out there and give it your best shot, cut your teeth or buy a rating, whatever floats your boat!

good luck:ok:

[south coast]

while i think flying is a great job, i would not say i live to fly.

i think some people become too involved with it and allow it too much space in their life.

these kind of people are easily identified because they are shallow, 1-dimensional and struggle to talk about anything other than flying or aeroplanes.

it is a great job, but thats all it is, a great job which we have been luckily enough to have chosen, unlike millions of others who end up in a job... and one day ask, 'how did i get here?'

[contraxdog]

Southcoast,
Well said man! So much to know, so little time......

(Next time press the Shift key before the I, or is it the sand in the keybord again?)

[south coast]

thanks dog...

finally a bonehead who agrees with a pohm....