Advice for Integrated Ab-Initio to ATPL

[tonyic7]

I have just turned 27 and desperately want to become a pilot. I will be selling my home to pay for the integrated Ab-Initio to 'frozen ATPL'course. Thankfully, I have a very supportive partner!

Can anyone recommend any flight schools from previous experience or know of any good schools? I have heard that OAT is one of the best schools around but one of the most expensive.

Will my chances of future employment increase if I choose a well known school?

If you think there is anything else I should be aware of then please let me know

Regards,

Tony.

[arpansingla]

Hi Tony

The 3 most commonly known integrated schools that i know of are as follows:

1. Oxford Aviation http://www.oxfordaviation.net/courses/pilota-app-costs.htm. I can reccomend oxford because my friend graduated from there with a job at the end, he was very happy with everything. Dont think oxford will guarantee you a job though!

2. Flight Training Europe (Jerez)http://www.flighttrainingeurope.com/

3. Cabair http://www.ccat.org.uk/costs_fwintegrated.htm

There are other courses known as 'structured modular' courses which also take you from 0-fatpl, they are basically like integrated, except they dont have the bloody expensive price tag. And also there is the 'modular' courses where you get all the licences at your own pace.

i think 'choosing a well known school' (although some people will strongly disagree with me) certainly helps you in terms of employent. I feel that if airlines require low hours pilots then they will go for the major schools first. After speaking with the recruitment personnel at Flybe and BMI this is the impression i got. Therefore if i want to get a job quickly i think i will go for a 'well known' school, be it oxford, cabair or fte.

However to put it simply if there are no jobs available then oxford cannot magic one up for you. It ultimately depends on the current job market situation. I feel aviation is really picking up and in the next few years it will really begin to thrive. Hence the demand for pilots should increase.

This is all my IMHO.

Seek advise from others who have experienced some of the schools as well.

Regards
Arpan

[silverknapper]

A dangerous question to ask here!!! The best bet is to do a search - there are many varied and informed opinions on pprune.

[tonyic7]

Thanks , I have already made some enquiries with certain flight schools but want to make sure that i have exhausted all available options. And, peoples opinions.

[Simon_Sez]

To disagree slightly with arpansingla, in my opinion it does not matter who you do your training with as long as it's JAR approved. (a fact backed up by 99% of airline recruitment teams)

No matter where you train, you will build up a network of friends (and thus future contacts) as well as meeting current pilots who will allow you to make an impression by simply talking to them. If you make an impression you will be remembered.
If you are an Oxford student, but a complete ****, it won't help you get a job. If you do the ATPL modular over 5+ years, work hard at networking (the most underated part of flight training, in my view) and are the kind of person others could survive with in a multi-crew environment- congratulations, you're a future airline pilot.

Don't spend unnecessary cash if you don't need to. £60,000 is a lot of cash and while Oxford is without doubt an absolutely fantastic school, there are others out there that you can go to and NOT have to sell your house...

Anyway, have fun researching...

Simon.

[arpansingla]

Simonsez,

You mention that 'networking' i.e getting to know pilots in companies, and recruitment personnel helps you to gain employment.
However it is fair to say many of the major airlines i.e BA, BMI, Flybe do have interests with the major FTO's such as Oxford, FTE, Cabair. Isn't this a form of networking? If the recruitment personnel have good links with the likes of Oxford, Cabair then can they not mention/supply pilots to them?

I'm not saying that you cannot get a job if you go down the modular route, i'm saying there is a better chance if you go integrated, simply because the airlines have more confidence in the major FTO's, and have been supplied many pilots from them before.

[The African Dude]

A bright spark actually wrote to a large number of airlines and asked them that very question - from the responses it was clear that in general there is no preference. The only preference towards integrated expressed was on boundary conditions of

- low hours AND
- company who already have a training 'agreement' with a school - e.g. CTC for example easyJet

So, that applies only to those on the specific scheme.

I can't find the link now but it was posted on here some time ago. Ask yourself what you are most comfortable doing, and remember that binary thinking (e.g. If I go with Oxford I will get a job, if I don't I won't) is a bad thing!

Andy

[Simon_Sez]

"I'm not saying that you cannot get a job if you dont go down the modular route, i'm saying there is a better chance if you go integrated,"

and I'm saying that's a load of sh!t... :}

[arpansingla]

We are all entitled to our own opinions! Some people envy the integrated schemes just because they cant afford them!

[flyingisgr8]

tonyic7, unfortunately as soon as you ask such a question on here you will get a barrage of "informed opinions". It completely depends what your own personal choices come down to at the end of the day. It would be silly to make sweeping statements regarding airline recruitment policies because there are big variations in what different companies will consider.

From my experience and having seen some of the industry (worked at the head office of a major UK carrier) I decided to go integrated. I was in the position where I could have gone either way, as I had been flying as a PPL for several years by then. My reason was that it´s not a case of believeing that ONLY integrated students get jobs because that´s simply not true. However, if you are going to pop out of the other end of an ATPL course as a low hour, no experience non-type rated baby pilot, it would appear that a significant number of airlines prefer the major schools and their integrated courses for this sector of their recruitment.

I know modular students that have got jobs fairly soon after qualifying too, but very very few. Have a look at where for example BA/Citiexpress/GB etc have been sourcing their recent requirements for low hour pilots - FTE, Oxford, Cabair and CTC. The usual suspects.

Going modular is fine if you´re prepared to take the chance that you have an increased chance of having to instruct or something for a few years. However, if you want to appeal as many airlines as possible as a green, low hour pilot, in all probability an integrated course is likely to be better for you.

If you don´t get swamped by all the tirades of different arguments good luck with whatever you decide!!

[endofeng]

Ultimately it's upto you!

I and many others have recently graduated from Cabair (January to be precise). I chose the Integrated route as I wanted a 'class room environment', which i feel helped me through the JAR's.

Since my graduation I have had two interviews, set up by Cabair. One with Flybe (still waiting on that one!) and the other with BACX (screwed up my sim ride!).

Read between the lines!

I'm not saying that the Integrated route is what the airlines are looking for, but I'm quite sure that 99% of us at the interviews were Integrated..........

Hmmmmmmmmm......Food for thought!

Good luck, and you really do need an understanding partner, the advertised 14month training duration turned out to be more like 18 months!!!!!!!!!Ouch................................

[Banjo]

If you go down the modular route it "may" save you money but not in the way most would expect. We have all heard about how it can save you money flying but that is not the end of it.

If you get a PPL and then sit the modular ground school once finished you will at least know that you have the Writtens out of the way, not a small task. I have met several people who did intergrated at Oxford and failed the written exams. Unfourtunately the way Oxford structure it by the time you discover that you can not pass these you will already have spent a fair wedge of your funds in Arizona on flying.

Should you fail some of the writtens you can continue with the flying once you have returned to the uk alongside re-sits. Thus enabling Oxford to continue to spend your money. In the last few years I have met two people who tried at Oxford who were doing their IR but still had exams to pass and then failed for the final time thus losing the lot. Some people will never pass the written tests and I have known more than I can count on both hands who have had to give up.

If you are one of these (and I am not suggesting you are) then I think it would be better to find out when all you have spent is the cost of a PPL and ground school than when you are nearly £50,000 poorer.

Just my thoughts on it so please don't all flame me down.

[ChocksAwayUK]

I'm not saying that the Integrated route is what the airlines are looking for, but I'm quite sure that 99% of us at the interviews were Integrated..........

I cant speak for Cityx but if that's the case for your interviews at Flybe then that must have been a specific "integrated only" day.

[vicento]

Yontik7,

I am in virtually the same position as yourself, 27, married with house on the market to pay for it all.

I would advise you to go and look around the major colleges first, if you like the look do the assessments, if you pass do your medical and then make the decision.

I am about to make my final decision in the next week or two and have told my boss what I am planning which was a bit of a shock to him!!!!