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Willit Run
24th Mar 2005, 20:29
Any BA guys care to deny or corroberate this? I find it hard to believe!


*** British Airways Flight Operations Department Notice ***

There appears to be some confusion over the new pilot role titles. This notice
will hopefully clear up any misunderstandings. The titles P1, P2 and Co-Pilot
will now cease to have any meaning, within the BA operations manuals. They
are to be replaced by Handling Pilot, Non-handling Pilot, Handling Landing
Pilot, Non-Handling Landing Pilot, Handling Non-Landing Pilot, and Non
Handling Non-Landing Pilot. The Landing Pilot, is initially the Handling Pilot
and will handle the take-off and landing except in role reversal when he is the
Non-Handling Pilot for taxi until the Handling Non-Landing Pilot, hands the
handling to the Landing Pilot at eighty knots. The Non-Landing (Non-
Handling, since the Landing Pilot is handling) Pilot reads the checklist to the
Handling Pilot until after Before Descent Checklist completion, when the
Handling Landing Pilot hands the handling to the Non-Handling Non-Landing
Pilot who then becomes the Handling Non-Landing Pilot.

The Landing Pilot is the Non-Handling Pilot until the "decision altitude" call,
when the Handling Non-Landing Pilot hands the handling to the Non-
Handling Landing Pilot, unless the latter calls "go-around", in which case the
Handling Non-Landing Pilot, continues Handling and the Non-Handling
Landing Pilot continues non-handling until the next call of "land" or "go-
around", as appropriate.

Rainboe
24th Mar 2005, 20:34
It's quite clear isn't it? Learn to like it baby- you will all be assimiliated one day! Then Microsoft will run the world, and BA all the airline procedures, and you will all be happy again.

Now where was your confusion?

Helli-Gurl
24th Mar 2005, 20:47
"Microsoft will run the world"

Hope you like the colour Blue.. as in a total across the screen format!!!!!

xx

moggiee
24th Mar 2005, 21:15
YouŽll find it here: http://www.pprune.org/go.php?go=/pub/fun/bahandling.html

and yes, it does correctly (but farcically) represent the essence of the BA monitored approach.

For the record, this is in all truth a great way of operating the aeroplane on the approach in poor weather.

Grandpa
24th Mar 2005, 22:06
No doubt our Air-France bureaucrats are unable to achieve such perfection in "charabia"................even if they are very clever on these grounds!

Tandemrotor
24th Mar 2005, 23:47
So Willit

Can we take it you aren't a fan of the concept of monitered approaches?

Willit Run
25th Mar 2005, 02:58
Tandem whirlydude,

Well, since us yanks haven't really adopted the idea, I can't say either way, but I would like to think, that so many others are using it, that monitored approaches may well have a place. Since we still have to do the dreaded ADF approaches, I have heard the Euro way of tag teaming the approach, seems to be a much easier and safer way. Maybe the day will come that we adopt that idea, but i think the NDB's will be decommissioned before we adopt any modern way of thinking.

I do think that excerpt could have been worded a bit differently, but, since we are so behind the times, and ya'll did master the language first, that maybe we just aren't able to keep the handleing pilot seperate from the non handleing non landing pilot.
Maybe we can talk about tandem rotor heads being controlled by the non landing handleing pilot sometime over a non-alcoholic beer(?).

frangatang
25th Mar 2005, 07:40
It aint written like that in the long haul manuals...yet!
I for one dont mind the monitored approach. At least whoever is P2 gets a go at flying the plane when sectors are scarce.

ZQA297/30
25th Mar 2005, 09:43
No disagreement on monitored approaches. Many of us been doing them for some time.

Thing is however, I had no idea how technically complicated the description makes it sound.

Sort of like Danny Kaye in The Court Jester, trying to remember whether the pellet with the poison was in the "Flagon with the Dragon", "Vessel with the Pestle", or "Chalice from the Palace".

God help us if there was ever an incident where the tabloids got to speculate on which pilot was the flying at the time. The mind boggles.

Capt.KAOS
25th Mar 2005, 11:21
"We.Are.BA. Resistance.Is.Futile. You.Will.Be.Assimilated"....

moist
27th Mar 2005, 08:57
I have operated both Monitored and .... other approaches.

In my opinion the monitored approach is far superior in CAT III then the non monitored. Particularly as a captain, because the first officer is flying the 2 autopilots on the approach, allowing me the space to continuously evaluate the situation from "above".
I can then spend the latter part of the approach looking more out then in, (he is IN all the time), thereby being able to receive the required visual references in much more "comfort."

The other type of approach, I think is idiotic in CATIII.
The company I am with operate to the Boeing way, which means that the captain does everything, F/o does sweet FA, except some calls.

Why on earth do we operate to the Boeing bible. My question is what do Boeing know really.
They can certainly rivet some hulls together, perhaps even test fly them and issue us with speeds/performance etc, but to tell us HOW to fly is well beyond their mandate.

I mean, would you want to drive your Volkswagen in a German way just because VW may say so???

C'mon - moist

kjocky
27th Mar 2005, 09:42
"P1" and "P2" have been used in manuals in BA for years now. That notice is ancient!

acbus1
27th Mar 2005, 14:51
F/o does sweet FA, except some calls.
Best to stick to what they're used to. :rolleyes: