The JOB SEARCH Journal

[Kerropi]

Hi!!!,


Below is a list were I have applied to for a job as pilot. As you can see I did not receive many respones.

My experience is Fzn ATPL TT 320

Have people got similar experience when appying to these airlines?

K.

19-12-2004 Binair Email
19-12-2004 Exelaviation Group Applied via website
19-12-2004 Sky Europe Applied via website -- Received an confirmation that they have added me to their database
1-1-2005 Aer Lingus Email
1-1-2005 Air Berlin Email -- Received an email on 2-1-2005 that pilot positions are only available to German Speakers
1-1-2005 Alitalia Email
1-1-2005 FlyBe Email
1-1-2005 Hainan Air Email -- Received an email that they only recruit via Agencies
18-1-2005 Air Asia Email and Web
18-1-2005 Qatar Snail mail -- Received an email saying that they will put me on file
25-1-2005 Aer Arann Applied via website
25-1-2005 City Jet Applied via website
31-1-2005 BMI Baby Applied via website
31-1-2005 BMI Regional Email -- Received email saying You are unsuccesful better luck next time
31-1-2005 BMI Regional Snail mail
31-1-2005 GB Airways Email
31-1-2005 Logan Air Applied via website
31-1-2005 SN Brussels Applied via website
24-2-2005 Air Hong Kong Email
11-3-2005 Binair Email
11-3-2005 City Jet Applied via website and Snail mail
11-3-2005 Czech Airlines Snail mail
11-3-2005 Emerald Airways Snail mail
11-3-2005 Hong Kong Express Email
11-3-2005 Luxair Snail mail
11-3-2005 Scot Airways Snail mail
11-3-2005 VLM Airlines Email and Snail mail
12-3-2005 Air Wales Snail mail
12-3-2005 Astraeus Snail mail -- Received an email on 15-3 saying U r Unsuccesful this time
12-3-2005 Atlantic Airlines Snail mail
12-3-2005 BAC Express Snail mail
12-3-2005 BM British Midland Snail mail
12-3-2005 BMI Baby Snail mail -- Received Email from Cpt. J. Bell asking me to fill in attached application form on 15-2
12-3-2005 Channel Express Snail mail -- Put on file
12-3-2005 Eastern Airways Snail mail
12-3-2005 EAT Belgie Snail mail
12-3-2005 Excel UK Snail mail
12-3-2005 FlyBe Snail mail
12-3-2005 GB Airways Snail mail
12-3-2005 SN Brussels Snail mail
12-3-2005 Thomas Cook UK Snail mail
12-3-2005 Virgin Express Snail mail
13-3-2005 Air Macau Snail mail
13-3-2005 Asiana Airlines snail mailand Email
13-3-2005 Cathay Pacific Snail mail
13-3-2005 China Airlines Email -- Received an Email on 14-3 that they require a total time of 1500 hours
13-3-2005 China Eastern Snail mail
13-3-2005 China Southern snail mailand Email
13-3-2005 Dragon Air Snail mail
13-3-2005 EVA Airways snail mailand Email
13-3-2005 Hainan Air Snail mail
13-3-2005 Korean Air snail mailand Email
30-12-2005 Hong Kong Express Email
14-3-2005 Aba Air Snail mail
14-3-2005 Adria Air Snail mail
14-3-2005 Aegean Airlines Snail mail
14-3-2005 Air Alps Snail mail -- CV put on file and will contact on demand
14-3-2005 Air Atlanta Europe Snail mail
14-3-2005 Air Iceland Snail mail
14-3-2005 Air Nostrum Snail mail
14-3-2005 Air One Snail mail
14-3-2005 Augsburg Airways Snail mail
14-3-2005 Aurigny Air Services Snail mail -- Received email saying no vacancies at the moment
14-3-2005 Braathands Snail mail
14-3-2005 Bulgaria Air Snail mail
14-3-2005 Club 328 Snail mail
14-3-2005 DHL Aviation Snail mail
14-3-2005 Euro Air Snail mail
14-3-2005 European Air Express Snail mail
14-3-2005 European Aviation Air Snail mail
14-3-2005 European Executive Express Snail mail
14-3-2005 Finnair Snail mail
14-3-2005 First Choice Airways Snail mail
14-3-2005 Flyjet Limited Snail mail -- Only hire high time pilots
14-3-2005 Gulf Air Snail mail
14-3-2005 MK Airlines Snail mail
14-3-2005 Netjets Europe Snail mail
14-3-2005 Occitania Snail mail
14-3-2005 Privat Air Snail mail
14-3-2005 Rockhopper Aero Snail mail
14-3-2005 Schreiner Aviation Group Snail mail
14-3-2005 Turkish Airlines Snail mail
14-3-2005 Flighline Snail mail

[matzpenetration]

Welcome to aviation! Most companies receive applications every day and simply do not have the resources, time and/or inclination to reply.

There are plenty of posts on this forum on strategies of how to get a job, I suggest you get searching. It is certainly worthwhile joining the IPA: www.ipapilot.com (http://www.ipapilot.com) as they (in my experience) are better geared to help people get a foot on the ladder than BALPA who seem to be more effective for pilots with experience.

With your hours, you need commercial time and there are plenty of opportunities out there such as instructing, aerial photography, ferry work, air taxy work etc... Many of the operators you have targetted will look upon you more favourably with 1000hrs in your logbook. Also look at www.ppjn.com (http://www.ppjn.com)

I hope you didn't fall for the sales hype from your training provider "The market is bouyant, there are plenty of jobs etc..." If necessary, take any job that is connected with aviation (ground handler, check in, dispatch, operations assistant) as this allows you to make useful contacts and shows plenty of perserverence for the old CV.

It won't be easy but you'll get there in the end and believe me there hasn't been a single day when I don't feel lucky to do this job!

Good luck.

[arpansingla]

Kerripi, can i ask what were your steps in gaining your fATPL? i.e did you go integrated or modular and where did you train?

[Firestorm]

Kerropi,

Whilst I don't wish to dampen your enthusiasm, I have about 10 times your experience, and I get a very low response to my applications as well. It is incredibly frustrating I know, but stick with it. If possible, follow up apllications about 10 days later with a polite phone call, if you can. Use the pretext that you'd like to know if it was received, and if it was of interest. Don't be pushy, and keep it brief.

Good luck.

[Kerropi]

Hi,

I did my ATPL theory in 1998 in the Netherlands. After passing all the subjects I went to the US to build hours and for a FAA PPL/CPL/IR license
In 2001 I've obtained my JAA CPL/IR license in the Netherlands. I knew a few people who got jobs with just a CPL/IR (NO ME RATING). So I thought well
my budget is kind of limited, maybe I too could have a job as pilot without ME/MCC so i didn't do anything thereafter. After 2001 I've tried with Lufthansa Cityline and Tyrolean air but I didn't got passed the selection :(. Those were one of the few airlines who did not require you to have ME rating/MCC.

Just last year I did my twin rating and MCC Course in Belgium because I had some extra money.

At the moment I am 28 and working as a programmer. To be honest I can say that I am not as enthousastic as I used to be to become a pilot. But somewhere in side of me I do still have hope to be able to fly for my living :D some day. I am not bitter absolutly not... I am still very proud that I have my flying license :D :D.

After having my license (2001) I worked for several IT companies as programmer to pay of my debts. Not knowing that after 4 years I am still working as a programmer :(

As Matzpenetration has mentioned there are several routes i could chose from. For instance instructing, aerial photography, ferry work, air taxy work etc. But I've tried several companies in Netherlands but there are simply to many employed pilots like me wanting to do the same. Some of these companies just laughed at me when i showed up asking if they have something for me to fly with.... well that's not really motivating is it?

I am TOTALLY against paying for a type rating. because I have no money for that (maybe if there was a guarantee for a job afterwards I would consider ) but usually there is none. Some companies I called for said to me "Well If you have this and that type rating ....We would MIGHT give you an interview" Well what good is that gonna give me?? I do not want to hear MIGHT I want guarantees :D


For the people who wants to comment about my spelling:
Yes!! I know my spellings sucks. YES I also know that this is maybe the reason I do not have a job as pilot........:sad:

[arpansingla]

Kerropi. Do not worry too much about your spelling. I am guessing English is not your mother tongue so you cannot be expected to be 100% at it! :ok:

Good luck

[IRRenewal]

I wouldn't worry too much about your spelling on pprune, but I'd strongy suggest you get any application you submit in English checked.

Je krijgt maar een kans om een eerste indruk te maken.

Groet

Gerard

[Kerropi]

Update..

This week I have received another 12 replies from airlines. All were (sadly :sad: ) Rejection letters....

One of them even returned my CV+Letter. On CV it was written with Thick black pen ===> NOT SUCCESSFUL. :(
Not very encouraging I know...

There was also one (very nice reply may I add) via snail mail. Thanking me VERY VERY much for interest in the company and that they will treat my CV with the Utmost care and that they will not bin it the trash can and last but not least at the end they wrote:When vacancies will arise that they (MIGHT) contact me. (I know this is just another way to reject me but even though it was a rejection.. I was glad about their reply.)

About my spelling .... Just want to be the first one ranting about my own spelling before someone else does.

IRRenewal (Gerard) Bedankt voor je opmerking!!

PS: Mike Thanks again for having a look at my CV and Letter :ok: much appreciated!!!!

K.

[Cap Loko]

Kerropi,

Don't bother sending so many applications. The HR person reading your letter will recognize it as a standard letter. I know of people sending litterally hundreds of (standard) letters and never got a positive reply back.
Rather, concentrate on companies that may consider low-timers rather than companies with hard (ex.>1000 TT) requirements.

Another option will be to knock doors of companies that operate smaller planes (outside NL). With some companies, this will really work.

But, in my opinion, do yourself a favor and buy a typerating. I quit my job (turboprop captain) in Africa 8 months ago with almost 3000 hours total time to find a job in Europe or Asia and so far No Luck!

All the best,
Loko
ps. De aanhouder wint!

[flaps to 60]

Kerropi

It doesnt matter about spelling on this site as long as you get it right on the application form.

If you want a job in this (admittedly improving) market you must network.

All the people that got into my airline recently were recomended personally by a Flight Crew member including myself.

The chief pilot or recruitment department are more likely to look at a CV if someone in the airline is prepared to stick thier neck out on your behalf.

How you network is up to you but the one thing you should never do is piss anybody off as it will come back on you.

Have any of your flying school colleagues got jobs? If they have give then a call and buy them several beers and go on from there.

What ever you do KEEP THE FAITH and what is your will come your way.

Good luck and remember i waited for seven years before i got a job and yes it was worth the wait.

[TheFlyingDJ]

De aanhouder wint!

En zo is het!

I just started with the whole circus and had no success yet, but you never ever quit! :D

[Addy]

zou me er niet teveel zorgen over maken, tenzij je al een jaar of 4 aan het zoeken bent natuurlijk..je kunt niet om het feit heen dat de markt er beter uitziet op dit moment dan pak em beet een half jaar terug, alleen zul je wel voorlopig nog buiten nederland moeten kijken ;) (of geluk hebben bij denim natuurlijk)

[Kerropi]

Hi Hi!!

Bedankt voor jullie reacties tot zover....

1. Some people say to me to send a letter and CV every month. 2. Some say target only a few airlines where you really want to work for?
3. Some give me the advice to call or give them an acknoledgement or thank you letter for having to take look at my cv.


1. I find it very hard to write them a letter each month... I see it more as stalking. Do you mean write to every company each month where you don't receive any acknoledgement or letter?? or also the companies where you already have received a rejection letter / or letters where they say that they will put you on file?

2. Do you write each cover letter tailored to that specific airline or do you use just use one cover letter and you just change the company name/address?

3. Every time I call an airline/Chiefpilot or whatever I always hear the same things ... "No I am sorry we are not hiring at the moment" Or "We require to have 1000 hours TT" and when you say you have 1000 hours TT then they will say "Do you have a type rating?"


K.

[Kerropi]

Hello,

I have sent 50 letters now and I've received 40 rejection letters total. 25 reactions saying that I am put on file and 15 saying that I don't stand a chance because of my lack of flying experience.

What to do now?? reapply again or just wait?:\

K.

[spaceman1000]

kerropi,

years ago, they told me I didnt have enough hours, now I have 7 time more than you, and now they do not answer to my CV, or they tell me they want 2000hours on eavy jet.

It is useless to do what they tell you to do(one day they will tell you to be younger duh???).best way for us is to continue to apply, but focus only on 10-20 regional airlines, and in your region.Do not bother to send e mail or CV 2000 miles away.

I sent CV once a month, and now some companies are asking me TO STOP .What I did: I erase these companies of my searching list by the word:"**** these company,do not apply again"One day, I will %^$^$ them....it is just revenge!

good luck to you!

[Puritan]

Kerropi, Might I invite you to read this (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=149212) ?!

[Kerropi]

Hi Hi :D

Just to let you guys (and Girls ;) ) know ... that today I have sent my 150th letter........ and still no sniff of a job (or even an interview)

:sad:

But I am still optimistic :}

K.

[Addy]

Same thing here, sent over 400 emails and regular letters within and outside of Europe with JAA and FAA licenses, and haven't got anything back but 'we'll keep you on file' and 'thank you for your interest in our company but we have no current vacancies'...

nou ja, die baan komt er wel joh!

[Khaosai]

Hi Kerropi, just like to wish you and others in the same situation the best of luck. Having invested so much time and effort into getting the licence it would be a real shame to end there. Keep applying, consider getting current by perhaps investing in an instructors rating. Have you tried the ATP Academy (CTC). Best wishes. Rgds.

[Cap Loko]

Hang in there guys. Your (and my) time will come.
Not to discourage you, but it seems even turboprop operators (ATR, Dash8, F50 etc) are not interested in my c.v. with almost 2000 me turboprop hrs including command. It looks like these operators prefer lowtimers......??????:confused: ?????? Anyway, good for them (the lowtimers).

All the best.

Loko

[BigGrecian]

because I had some extra money

wow don't think I've heard that one before regarding completing an MCC etc! LOL :E

[stellair]

Try aiming at outfits that suit your lack of experience such as flight schools, photography companys or jump schools, build some hours to over 1000, at least, then have another go. Rome wasn't built in a day and most of us have all been through it. It took me six years of GA to get my first FO's position and it gave me an excellent grounding for starting that first job as there's a world of difference between a guy with low hours and one with 1000+ not only in handling but also general situational awareness, ask any sim instructor.

[angelorange]

Never give up

Don't pester people - make relationships where possible.

Get an instructor rating - teaching people to fly makes you a better pilot by re-learning what you'd forgotten.

You might enjoy it so much as to join the pro instructor brigade - the likes of CTC, Oxford, Jerez are crying out for these at the moment and salary similar to 737 FO once you do the twin IR stuff.

Maybe join IPA/IPF - it's cheaper than BALPA and has very good resources for job seekers.

Enjoy life - yes there is one beyond aviation!