Turbine time a good idea?

[buster172]

Hi,

I am slowly working my way through these ATPL’s and will begin flying in the summer.

As we all know getting the first job is the big challenge and any way in which we can make our selves more attractive to an employer should be looked at. I have come across a ‘place’ that can offer me, on completion of my ATPL a job flying a multitude of different aircraft in the US.

The idea is that I pay for this luxury and in return get to log turbine hours. It could be in a King air all the way up to a Citation.

Apparently the King air, in this instance is a two crew operation and I would be able to log the hours. I asked how much flying I might get to do (rather than look out the window, make coffee, vacuum, etc) for my rather large outlay.

The answer was, as much as the captain wants.

So this is a request for information on this type of venture. Is it worth the money? About 15000, for 500 King air hours. Would it look good in the book, or am I better to do a FI rating and build experience (not hours) in that role.

Any thoughts or experiences greatly appreciated.

Buster172

[ESSEX BOY]

Well .... my 2ps worth !

A lot of King Air's are operated single crew ... therefore you would need to have at least 700hrs+ (more like 1000) to get a job flying one, pref with a lot of multi experience. You maybe able to get a job as an assistant and build time on positioning legs, this may take quite a while ! ... As for the companies that do operate the aircraft multi crew you may have a chance especially if you KNOW someone, the turbine time will be an advantage, but will come at quite a price of paying for the type rating and trying to find a job ?

As for Instructing ... It is a great way of hour building and more importantly experience building, I learnt more from instructing and the course than most other flying courses .... A great experience that I wouldn't swap for anything, now in corporate aviation with a good background and a great knowledge of GA.

Firstly you need to get the CPL/IR etc out of the way and research the best options for you ... ! Do you want to go in to corporate aviation or the airlines (2 different worlds).

Good luck with the ATPL's and keep it in the back of the mind until your getting on with the flying !

EB :ok:

[silverknapper]

If it's two crew you would need a type rating. If £15k includes that then I would go for it.
If not it sounds a bit weird, I would give it a wide berth. You would need FAA licences which would add to the cost. And if it's single crew on the AOC I'm not sure how those hours will look back here. The captain can't let you fly it if your not type rated. Even if he did you can't log it.

[Piltdown Man]

And remember, when you are doing the assessment for the real job - If you have 500 hours in the book, you must be able to fly like it in the sim! Those who pitch up with zero with be expected to perform accordingly. Therefore, only allow REAL hours to go in your book. And IMHO, I wouldn't pay for passenger hours (or even crew hours!).

[B2N2]

Buster 172,

Be aware of those sorts of programs.
What is going to be your (immigration) status?
Tourist or employee?
Can they get your a work permit or work visa ? Highly unlikely unless you not telling us something here.
How well do you know these people?
Have you talked to people that have gone trough their program?
All important questions.
"As much as the Capt. allows you", that could be nothing then.
There are a lot of outfits trying to cut costs by letting people buy right seat time. Not all of it is legally loggable, legal immigration wise or legal period.
Most King-airs and Citations are single pilot certified by the way in the US.
Is this company a Part 91 (owner operated) or a Part 135 (air taxi/charter on demand) operation?
Different rules for both, different crew requirements also.
PM if you don't want to mention the name on this board.
:ok:

[Scoob]

You only need a type rating for a 300 series king air in the US. If you are flying passengers in a twin turboprop it will be multi crew. Only the very smallest citation is certified for single pilot, insurance usually requires two in the front though. I also think it is the pilot not the plane who needs to be typed single pilot in the citation. All off the top of my head, seem to remember that but not sure.
As to weather or not you should do it. Completly up to you but what a waste of money, much cheaper to get away from the computer and go talk to possible employers. Clean king airs in the UK for 6 months and you never know you may end up flying one. I know that is below most unemployed pilots but it quite often works.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Multi time would probably be more beneficial than turbine time. Most airlines operate multi engine aircraft and you'll be starting out in the right seat anyway so the turbine option is not really that important, while multi engine time is.

Instructing to build real experience would probably be better, and multi engine instruction entitles you to log a fair bit of command/instruction time.

Paying to fly in the right seat can be a problem in that you'll be one of many who are competing to get some time on type so things could drag on a bit while you wait your turn.

[Carney]

Hi Buster,

I too have been looking at (I think) the same company this week and quite fancied the idea of building some turbine time myself.

I'm in the process of finishing my PPL before going straight into the CPL and ATPL here in the UK but I was planning to go to said company next year to build some hours, first building some good SEP and twin time then doing 250hrs turboprop (Beech 1900 or Metroliner) and possibly (funds allowing) doing 250hrs Lear Jet.

I was told that these hours can be entered into my logbook at SIC hours. Now everyone please excuse my ignorance but are these hours in my logbook (if indeed these hours CAN actually be entered) worth the ink they are written with when it comes to looking for that first airline job ??

[dynamite dean]

An aquaintance of mine went to an airline interview tried to be humble too .Mr X spent a while (a few months with the actual rating) in the right seat of a twin turbine certified single crew aircraft. He felt it wasn't worthy of logging even though he experienced severe weather aviodance, experienced multi crew concepts , sop's for that aircraft obeyed checlkist and 'behaved like a little co pilot should - be professional in all aspect as an effective crew member. The interviewer couldn't understand why my friend new what he did and yet his log book didn't reflect so much as a 1hr!

Did the chap get a job? of course he didn't, there was no proof and it's too late after the interview to say well ... So log the hours as SIC if nescesary and worry about the detail of it later so long as you don't lie! Your log book is not just a log book it is a diary of the flying experienced YOU have gained from the time YOU got your wings till the time you gain a real set of wings so to speak !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As for the author of this thread you do what you have to do and becareful of those hungry operations

You may think this is a far fetched post well you would be very suprised !

Until such time that your number is up never ever not log your flying expereince !:ok:

[winch launch]

I really don t see how this is working,

Is that the eaglejet scheme? surely you need some FAA CPL - IR in addition to the TR and an approved multicrew aircraft.

what are the compagnies doing that?

Winch

[BillieBob]

Buster

Any hours that you accrue on deals like this will not be counted towards any JAA licence or rating. Don't waste your time or money.

[buster172]

Thank you everyone for replying and letting me know what you think.

After, giving it some further thought and based on the views shown here I am going to concentrate firstly on getting through these exams and the flying, but then to go for the FI rating.

I have a good idea what’s involved and I know it will improve my flying and various other qualities I need to address! It is also a proven route into the airlines in my neck of the woods.

To answer the questions regarding where this was all to take place I will tell you what I know. As someone said, I would require FAA licenses to do it, though with a JAA CPL/IR this would not cause a great deal of difficulty (I believe).

The visa/work issues are supposedly taken care of and type of aircraft was up to me. I don’t know what type of flying this was as I hadn’t got that far into the discussion but I believed it was for small regional or bizjet organizations. I had initially requested information concerning the flight training available from the school but had more time having this idea explained to me than I did the training I wished to receive.

That’s what made me a little uneasy and hence the post. 15000 is a lot, 10000 more than a FI ticket and, as was said earlier if I have 500 hours, I better fly like it. If I don’t know how much hands on I may have at the end of it the FI rating seems a better bet.

I would like to go on and teach CPL and ME, so perhaps this will be the start of something. Don’t think I’m one of these hour building, sod the student types.

Many thanks again to you all for taking the time to reply.

Kind regards,

Buster