Ir/cpl Prices

[Big Piston head]

Having just completed the theory I’m having trouble with understanding the schools pricing. I would have liked to do my training in one place but have had to work etc during my distance learning. I have decided to stay in Europe and decided on Spain due to weather. The problem I’m having is that Jerez offer a combined CPL/ME/IR for 27300 euros so that’s £20220 but they only do a total of 16 hrs in the aircraft for the IR and only a total of 42hrs in the aircraft. I don’t believe for one minute that you can successfully pass an IR with this little time on the first attempt. O.k. so you have the 27300 euros plus the test fees that’s another 2500 euros so that’s total 30000, which equates roughly to £22500. Then on the other hand BCT/Aerodynamics-Malaga does an 85 hrs course 25 duchess 40 Complex in Malaga and 15 in the Arrow for the CPL back in Kemble for £15995 all-inclusive, which is 21600 Euros. Additionally you can do a turbo type rating and 50 hrs line training for and additional £9500 (13000 euros) so for 34000 Euros you get an 85hrs CPL/IR/ME plus a turbo rating and 50 hrs line. Compared with just a 42 hr course for 30000, So which one would you take bear in mind I’m not a 21 year old whiz kid with a BA father. Also do names mean much these days. With Nikes made in Vietnam and Gucci in China are we being victims of advertising I just think being modular you need the licences and as much flight time and turbo experience as possible if your ever going to get to the airlines. I say SOD the Sims.

[pipergirl]

i was looking at their site over the past few days and was looking at the modular IR course...
Is 34hours in a SIM with 16hours in the a/c a little bit excessive to say the least?

Even looking at another school-Aerofan, these are the hours they quote; and are a fraction of the price!

23 Hours single engine CESSNA 172
12 Hours single engine BEECHCRAFT BONANZA
15 Hours multi-engine CESSNA 310
Up to 2 hours CESSNA 310 - Flight Skills Test

I was comparing prices of flight schools in the States and was amazed to see that when looking at the courses on offer the variation of total time in a/c to SIM...Goes to show, you have to shop around and go for the deal that will get u as much practical experience as possible

[heathrow hawk]

You made hard work of that B.P.H

Its basically this 80hrs --- 65 (25 BE76 40 COMPLEX). IR Aerodynamics-malaga and 15 hrs CPL at BCT for £15995. Inclusive of all tests landing fees etc
Jerez are 25hrs CPL and IR 16 hrs flight time 30ish sim at 27500 plus test fees 3000 euros
Aerodynamcis and BCT "Real time" 80 hrs
Jerez "Real Time" 42hrs
Remember aerodynamics follow BCT u.k approved IR course. If your Structured Modular its fine.

[orangesky]

just remember ... its not all in the price ... dont get me wrong, i dont have a money tree at the bottom of my garden, and i begrudgingly paid those ILS approach fees for my IR ! infact, i still have a sizeable debt from my CPL/IR training.

i am not interested in promoting any one school in the UK, or slagging off the modular route etc but i think there are a couple of things people should seriously consider before parting with all that hard earned (or borrowed) money.

1) quality of instruction, understanding exactly what the instructor is saying (especially in the a/c with props spinning) ... now ask yourself if the instructor doesnt speak english as their first language, no matter how good they be as instructors, are they gonna get their knowledge through to you clearly ? also, its fine if a foreign school saying it has english instructors, are you guaranteed to get that one, each time ? i am not only referring to schools in spain here.

2) flight time vs sim time, from my experience, i felt as if i could have benefitted hugely from having more sim time and less actual aircraft time. some may find this strange, but the sim is a great tool for really maximising your "time in the air". especially when i got onto the seneca, it would take perhaps 15 mins to do an ILS from a go-around, and a little longer if you were going a procedural NDB .... ie. a lot time wasted going downwind, or being vectored away from inbound commercial traffic. dont get me wrong, i wouldnt want to do all my time in a sim (i know there is one school that just about does), but a good 20 hours in a sim would be great - dead easy to be repositioned on an 8 mile final in a split second.

3) hidden costs, i am not referring to those extortionate :yuk: :yuk: approach fees some airfields charge here ! but to the cost of getting to where ever you choose to do your training, accomodation, food, transport whilst there, the trips home for a weekend (CPL/IR is a long course consider 10 weeks as the norm), entertainment money if in a foreign country, not that you are going on the raz every night, but if you are there on weekends, what are you gonna do ?

i found my CPL/IR challenging, really challenging, but with hard work and dedication (and lots of sleep) you can get through it without having to retake any of the tests. some days one feels on top of the world, others, you ask yourself if you have made the right decision to become a pilot, and sometimes a weekend away from the school, instructors and aircraft is just what the doctor ordered !

you will be parting with a lot of money, just do your research properly, visit the school, country etc, meet the instructors who you are going to spend the next 10+ weeks with, speak to past students, they have a unique insight into any problems that you might experience. we are all different and require different types of schools and instruction, but i would advise against just going to the cheapest school, because in the long run, it may not be the cheapest !

hopefully there are a few points here to think about, and help you in making your decision, i just hope i havent come across too "touchy feely" :p

good luck with your decision :ok:

[heathrow hawk]

At this level you need experience and the more hrs you get up there on Instruments the better FULL STOP. Sims are for the big stuff. Weather money are problems in the U.K so everybody is trying to sell you IR sims why so many partials because these guys lack practical experience. Don't believe the sim time. And if you want to try sim work pay for 5 hrs before you start the IR. I decided on the BCT/AERODYNAMICS combined course because its all REAL TIME.

[LFS]

HH,

Sims do have a benefit at this level. Remember they are not sims but procedure trainers. There are a lot of things you can do in the sim which you can't do in the aeroplane such as control weather, atc, failures etc. and if everything is going wrong you cannot pause an aeroplane like you can a sim. Don't get me wrong aeroplane time is essential but it is about getting the right balance.

[heathrow hawk]

At Aerodynamics they let people use the sims for Free the actual course was all REAL TIME, I know that if you're stuck on something NDBs etc a little sim is alright but charging 90 quid an hour!! I'll Never Never agree with that one. For me I'm happy no 6 week visa and American eye scanning, no ridiculously bad weather, just continuous flying, and a first time pass!!!!

[escobar]

Having read this thread i'm interested to know if school status does come into play? For example i have heard of airlines going to oxford, cabair and jerez to get their future pilots, and i have heard that they generally only take the APP guys. However thats not to say that if you are in the right place at the right time with no APP students near completion that being at the school having just finished your IR will get you an interview, or an i just being silly to think that airlines would even look at inexperienced modular guys when they having 1000000 C.V.'s sitting on their desk?
Looked at aerofan and for price and actual airtime it seems to be amazing value, as far as aviation goes. However i do subscribe to the thought process whereby an instructor who speaks english as a second or third language would be in a worse position than an instructor who speaks english as a first language, but i'd rather have an amazing instructor who speaks fluent english as a fifth language than an average instructor who speaks english as a primary language, it really is luck of the draw.
Ultimately if you are going to do your cpl/ir the likelyhood is you want to get into the airlines, and as a modular student, would it be detrimental to your future career to spend the money going to a school without the reputation of jerez and oxford, who apparently treat their modular students like s@@t, haven't been so wouldn't know, or would it be an advantage to spend the money getting actual flying experience?