CAT turnaround??

[monkeyhead]

Hi all.

I recntly started with bmi as crew at LHR. I think our flying is pretty basic, we get on, fly back and forwards a few times then get off.

I have read loads of forums about BA short-haul crew at LHR mentioning CAT turnarounds, compass turnarounds, minimum break times etc. All sounds V technical! lol

Can someone enlighten me what all these things are and what other conditions BA shorthaul crew enjoy at LHR? Just interested as I have an interview next friday with BA. I think the basic salary is the same as I am on now with bmi, so what are the main money/conditions differences?

Thanks!

[keeperboy]

Hey monkeyhead....

Wow, BA short-haul Terms and Conditions are so complicated it takes ages to understand them all. Luckily i'm in Kuwait tonight with bugger all else to do so I will do my best to explain! :D

Firstly, the infamous 'CAT' turnaround.....This is basically an allowence of around £40 each time you have a turn-around at LHR but where you don't achieve 2.5 hours 'rest'. Complicated, I know. I'll try to give an example......At BA LHR 4 sector days (or 'doubles') are rare. They do exisit but are few and far between. Here's why: each time you return to LHR you must have 2.5 hours rest at Compass Centre. Therefore, if you add in the brief and de-brief time, flight time, and 2.5 hour 'rest time' into your duty day there are not many '4 sector' combinations that the schedulers can fit in. This 2.5 hour 'rest' can be reduced to a minimum of 2hours (or 1.5 hours if leading into a night-stop) but your 2 hours rest is then taken in the 'CAT lounge' which is airside of the Queens Building and a £37 payment will be made. If your inbound flight to LHR is say delayed, and you do not achieve a minimum of 2 hours 'rest' in the CAT lounge you will be removed from your next sector/flight and sent home. Phew, hope that answers that one!(??)

OK...other rules/benefits:

-Allowences are not paid with an hourly rate like most airlines. You get paid 'meal payments' which are generated at different trigger times.
- You get 'long-day payment' for a duty (including brief/de-brief) over 10.5 hours.
- 10 rostered days off per month that you 'bid' for (apparently meant to have a 60% minimum satisfaction rate)
- If you do over 11 hours duty you can request 15 hours rest instead of the legal minimum. (cannot be refused by scheduling)
- If you do over 12.5 hours duty you can request 18 hours rest (cannot be refused by scheduling). This would usually leave you 'non-operational' for the following day (ie another day off)

Hope that helps! :D

[monkeyhead]

Cheers Keeperboy!

Can I be REALLY cheeky and ask how much say a 2 sector paris or moscow, or a 3 day trip is worth dosh wise? :O :O

[keeperboy]

Yeh it is cheeky! lol

All depends on the time of day.

Paris/man/edi/gla/ncl/ams and back (2 sector) allowences are worth about £20 if early in the morning, £30 if after that.

Moscow there and back triggers lunch, dinner and long day payment so worth bout £90 in allowences.

3 day trips vary on where you are going, whether you have any CAT turnarounds etc. The last trip I did on shorthaul was a 3 day Athens trip (1 sector out, 1.5 nights in the hotel, 1 sector back). Worth bout £190 in allowences. That is the lower end of the scale. Most 3 day trips are worth about £220-£250, some are worth £350+ (swiss trips).

Don't forget your basic is only bout £800 a month tho.

Now no mroe personal questions! :D

[121]

''no more personal questions''

I don't think there's anything left to tell is there?No wonder our pay and conditions are the talk of this forum.

[monkeyhead]

You know what, this is the only thing that makes me hesitant about applying to BA; you have nice, open people like Keeperboy who has no qualms in helping someone else from another airline in gaining information and helping make a decision on a new job.

And then there are other BA staff who seem intent on keeping their precious money details top secrret and taking a swipe out of any of their collegues that dare help someone else out with their query (ie see above post).

Well thanks Keeperboy, the info you gave me really helped me out. I'm just sorry it cost you a slating from one of your collegues! :ugh:

Ste

[brain fade]

Those allowances are terrific! But I agree with the earlier poster that you should keep schtum. The fact that you get them is nice for you but they are plainly waaaaaaaay too generous. I mean £90 for a two sector trip to Moscow? Long day payment my arse! Our hosties get about £18 for a 10.5 hour FOUR sector day and as 'flight deck' I get the same!
Really funny bit is our aircraft have got the same paint scheme as yours!:confused:

[itsinthebag]

keeperboy - it might have been a good idea to PM monkeyhead RE: our allowances - the whole world doesnt need to know. And now they do the floodgates are open. Actually, just so as we know where we stand, lets have all the airlines basic salary and allowances posted on here - come on First Choice, Britannia, Monarch, easyJet staff - what d'you earn??!! Come to that, what about all the flight deck on here who winge CONSTANTLY about the money BA crew earn - what do you guys earn??!! come on - lets have it all out in the open!!!

[121]

monkeyhead,I do not feel that it's the business of all and sundry what I and my colleagues earn as B.A cabin crew.Surely it's not unreasonable to object to ones salary details bandied around on an open forum.Perhaps keeperboy could have sent you a private message instead.I appreciate that you wish to make an informed decision before you take up an offer from BA but I'm fed up with all and sundry having an opinion on what I and my colleagues earn.And before people start saying we are paid more than the market rate,well thats between the employees,the management and our shareholders.

[ChewyTheWookie]

I agree, it's noone elses business how BA cabin crew get paid.

[BrakesOff]

ChewyTheWookie & 121 I can appreciate your reasons for not wanting the world at large to know your salary scales however it is invaluable information for potential new recruits. I know from calling BA they refuse to discuss potential earnings over the phone.

How else can people considering joining any airline make a decision? The basic earnings listed on the website of £9,000 would put any one of joining the industry.

I for one have no problem with what BA crews earn, if they can achieve this allowances and the airline still earns money more power to them. Its in all our interests for everyone to achieve the best possible renumeration.

[Bumz_Rush]

Firstly why a 2.5 hour break just for landing at LHR.....

Secondly why should the allowances not be known, in the trade....I agree not "public knowledge", but we are all professionals.

£90 for the Moscow sounds generous, so I assume the crew dont get crew meals, if two meal allowances are paid.?

Did we find out what a CAT turnround was.?

Thank you all for enlightening me about the perks......now I understand why they are thinking about industrial action.

Bumz

[YYC F/A]

Our T&C at BA are complex, sometimes they work very much in our favour, at other times they don't. I've 'lost' many a nightstop because of our work rules... you just need to 'suck it up' and take the good with the bad.

Our basic is LESS than bmi, at £9,665. This is as posted publicly on britishairwaysjobs.com so I don't see it as a big secret. We get no London Weighting. I was at bmi about 6 years ago and I was getting 12,500 a year with London Weighting factored in, so basic there is def higher.

We do make a bit more than bmi on the allowances, but it is a bit of a lottery depending on your roster.

People from other carriers get all excited or hot under the collar about £90 on a Moscow trip. But when taken into perspective, you could do a MAN or a CDG there and back and get £6 light refreshment allowance and that's your lot!!! Also, unlike bmi, we do not get paid any allowances for airport standby (used to get £15? for service backup at bmi?).

Britishairwaysjobs.com lists allowances as about 500 a month. As posted on another thread on here, I sometimes take home quite a bit more than that, but I've also had months where I've done predominantly there and backs and my allowances were LESS than that.

Some new entrants have gone to LGW Longhaul. Allowances there can often be around the amount that the ba website lists. Therefore, again using the PUBLICLY quoted figures by BA, one could deduce that with £700 a month after tax from the quoted basic, and with the £500 in allowances, a lot of crew down there are taking home around £1200 a month, some months a bit more, some months a bit less. Those of you at Monarch, Thomas Cook or Bmi care to compare?

I prefer BA to bmi because of the size and scope of the operation, the opportunities within that, and the terms and conditions we enjoy. The pay is a little better too, but that alone would not have swayed me had I had the all the former at bmi.

Those starting today on the new contract might take home a little bit more than bmi/virgin/charter carriers, but it's not as big a jump as some (non ba) people on here try and make out.

And, before I get a 'telling off' from anyone about bandying around our salary figures, with the exception of the £90 allowance figure that's already been openly discussed, I'm only re-iterating details which BA itself has publicly posted on the recruitment websites. Whether you agree or don't agree with BA posting these figures is another debate altogether, but I'm only posting information that is already in the public domain. Cheers!

[AtlanticAngel]

YYC F/A

Congratulations on an excellent, well balanced post with all the correct information regarding our allowances at BA.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think this forum is an excellent source of information about the industry and it is to be applauded when people want to help each other but when dealing with matters such as pay and conditions, I think a PM is much more suitable as this is a public forum and like 121 has said, we don't want everyone knowing how much we earn as that is our business.

Having worked for a charter airline, I'm well aware how fortunate we are at BA but people must realise that you won't always trigger a CAT payment and there are trips where you earn very little eg. some of our longer flights (SOF, BEG, OTP) only trigger a lunch payment so you could earn less in allowances for one of those flights than a BRU that happens to trigger lunch or dinner. Yet at my previous ailine where we had an hourly rate, long flights such as PFO, LCA, TFS were worth much more and on short flights you didn't earn much at all.

It can all be a bit mind boggling until you start at BA and get to realise how the allowances, bidding etc work. They are very helpful and informative about these matters on the training course.

Well...thats it from me!! :)
Take Care everyone and Happy Easter (can't believe its almost here!)

[boobooboo]

Hey all.

This is my first post on here! I'm also ex bmi crew who is now at BA short-haul LHR (4 years). It's like a reunion at BA! Is anyone left at bmi?

I think that as this is a cabin crew forum then why not talk dollars or pounds? Especially when so many of the topics on here seem to revolve around the subject of how overpaid the BA crew are....and yet the posters seem to expect the readers to guess what sort of figures are being talked about. At least people from other airlines can finally make up their own minds as to whether the 'BA crew are overpaid and underworked' or not, as many threads on here proclaim. At the end of the day, when deciding whether or not you want to work for a particular company the main thing it boils down to is the dosh.

I don't think the fact that we are paid well and have good conditions are anything to be ashamed of. I certainly don't think we (well most of us...ouch!!) are overpaid, I think our pay represents the contribution our cabin crew make to annual profits of £525 million. I don't reckon I would be coming to work with the same positive attitude I have, if I was being paid rubbish to do 4 sector days every day.

monkeyhead, I would say go for BA without a seconds hesitation. I can say that on 4 years of short-haul I have never taken home less than £1500 after tax/deductictions unless i've had annual leave that month. I think the £500 stated on the ba jobs website is the real real real minimum you could possibly earn. Maybe you would have to do a full month of 2 sector days on earlies and not a single night-stop to earn that!

I can also honestly say I have never had a duty that pays the £6 're-freshment' allowence (better known as 'charity flight' lol). They do exisit, but only applies to dutys where you check-in after 13:01 and clear before 19:59 (so land before 18:59). As i'm sure you could work out for yourself there are few flights that fall into those parameters.

Again, I don't feel guilty about talking about figures. I believe BA saves money in other ways, such as low turnover. I mean, when was they last time you ever heard anyone at BA talking about leaving to go to another airline? Never! At bmi, 'who was recruiting' was the basis of conversation everyday and you were top of the crew list by the time you had been there 6 months!

Cheap labour doesn't always mean low cost, profit making machine. This year bmi made a small profit (I think about £9 million?) after four years of losses.

[keeperboy]

Gee didn't mean to cause such a fracas....sorry hope I didn't offend anyone!

I am a bit of a novice on here, didn't realise at the time that there was a PM facility.

Apologies!

Keeperboy :\

[VSFlightAttd]

BooBooBoo,

Here I am......the one who doesn't exist! I was a CSD equiv at Virgin Atlantic, came to LHR E/F for two years (Feb 2001-Nov 2002) and buggered off back to VS again!

Always wanted to work for BA but could never apply as only one language! Got the chance in 2001 and took it. I did ok at BA, got on the special flight team via that "Crew Idol" thing and saw lots of Europe of course but in the end I was offered to go back to VS and apply to be CSD equiv again after 6 months, thanks to my manager at the time and took it.

Loved every minute at BA and have even thought of re-applying........must get something for my "two year itch!!!!"

For those wondering about such fast promotion. After returning, VS let you re-apply after six months, for the rank you were when you left. As long as you were away for less than 3 years.

Lots love

VSFA