JAA Training in Australia

[AIRWAY]

Hello,

I have just noticed that Western Australian Aviation College is in the process of being recognise to give JAA training ( A first in Australia i believe!! ) anyone knows how the structure of the course will be, there's not many details on their website so i was just wondering if anyone got more info on it.

Regards,
Airway

[DBLE]

It is the full blown zero to B737 (sim) integrated JAR ATP(A)course. B737 type rating is to be an option. It is not ready yet though, I believe April 05.

[elemenohpee]

There's one on the way, and it's based on the east coast will take you from zero to airline standard. Being processed now and should start in July:ok:
all the best

[AIRWAY]

Thanks for the replies.

Is there someone from WAAC in these forums that could PM please. Thank You :ok:

[Lloyd Braun]

But can you study the UK ATPL theory then sit the exams in Aus and have this recognised by the UK CAA without having to fly to Europe to physically sit for the exams ?

[anthperry]

Ive recently returned to the uk from WAAC, there a fantastic lot, who got me thru the CASA Comm, however i do have to do my JAA conversion.
The guys at WAAC have a current approval waiting and everyhing seems to be set to go i nthe next month or two, and yes the 14 JAA's can be sat in Oz, i belive there is only 1 trip to the uk on the course to convert the oz IR

happy landings

[TomOz]

Will they be offering a modular course for the exams, or only a full-blown integrated course? What about helicopter training? What about JAA medical? What about prices? Anybody in the know? :confused:

[anthperry]

The course is only intergrated as far as im aware. As for the CAA class 1 med that is a good question. i have a feeling that the students will use the CASA class 1 until they return to the UK for the IR training, mabey then they will head down to Gatwick for the "pommy" class1 .

Ap

[Jet_A_Knight]

So, will it be possible to complete the 14JAR ATP subjects here - or have I missed something?

[NACGS]

By law the JAA medical( class 1 ) must be done in a member state for the initial issue, and it also needs to be completed prior to the CPL flight test.

A PPL level JAA medical inital issue can be done in Oz, as well as JAA class 1 renewals.

If these schools get up and going, then the exams will be available in Oz in their approved exam centers whether you are a student of them or not. But it will cost you $$$, the one we have here in the USA costs a small fortune to have and keep alive, so I imagine an Australian one would cost a lot more .

Unfortunately the Approval process for a JAA school from the UK CAA where these schools have applied is very very very very slow, there has only been 1 school approved by them outside of the UK in the last year that I know of, and there are many schools on the application list, so dont hold your breath for anything to happen soon.

[AIRWAY]

Hello all,

Any news re the above, i have requested some information awhile back, and they were suppose to send me an info pack but nothing yet. Is it still going ahead?

Regards
A

[Mark Davies]

AIRWAY sorry for the delay we are working on it and hope to have news very soon. I'll keep you posted.

[VIRGA]

I recently (1 year ago) completed my conversion over here in the uk and I think one thing is cast in stone and that is if the WAAC is waiting for the UK CAA to send them something or take action on something else then they and subsequently everybody else will be waiting a long time.

Most things move at a snail pace over here, lots of red tape and legal bollocks and masses of duplication of paper work and computer files etc etc etc.

This place is steaming full speed ahead and should be in the 18th century by at least...... sometime in the future.

[AIRWAY]

Mark Davies,

Many thanks for the reply, please keep me updated via a PM if possible re JAA with WAAC.

Regards

[AIRWAY]

Congrats in order.

They have finally been approved by CAA after "3" years :eek:

Now for some planning...

Regards

[NZLeardriver]

That is a very expensive course!!

[Boomerang]

Which company will be providing the 737 sim training, and is it a JAA approved sim?

[Meeb]

AIRWAY:

I have just noticed that Western Australian Aviation College is in the process of being recognise to give JAA training ( A first in Australia i believe!! )

Nope! No where near I am afraid! The then AAC in Adelaide (now BAe Adelaide) had UK CAP509 approval (much harder to achieve) way back in 1996. They could not make it work for a variety of reasons.

.

Mark Davies:

Perhaps this course is a bit of a shock to the system to Australians and New Zealanders, I am not aware of anything else quite like it available in the Southern Hemisphere. It is a course that regularly delivers 250 hour pilots to the airlines for jet training. So expensive yes, but perhaps we ought to be talking about value for money.

Should not be a shock due to the reason I have given, and in any case there is also a JAR approved facility in New Zealand. Maybe some antipodeans may find it a shock to learn that!

Australia is a great place for European training, but it has to be European orientated, that in itself is a challenge, as although Instructional standards are high in Australia, experience of UK/European operations is not.

I really do wish you luck, it is a great achievement to gain approval, but a greater challenge is to actually deliver, as I am sure you are aware, and its not easy being on the other side of the world from your market place. For the students sake I hope this place has done its homework. :rolleyes:

[AIRWAY]

I stand corrected Meeb.

Regards

[pa28capt]

WAAC have a pass rate of 1 in 30 for Aus ATPL, what hope have they got with the much harder JAA aTPL, steer clear I say!

[AIRWAY]

1 in 30 :confused: :uhoh:

[OzExpat]

Australia is a great place for European training, but it has to be European orientated, that in itself is a challenge, as although Instructional standards are high in Australia, experience of UK/European operations is not.
I could stand to be corrected on this, but I had an idea that there's a flight school in the USA (maybe in Florida?) that has JAA approval. If I'm right about that, then how can they hope to offer training that is "European orientated"? The answer is, obviously, that they will do it by meeting the JAA standards for issue of the licence. This is undoubtedly the same basis that is being used in Oz and, as I've recently gathered, in NZ as well.

The thing that will be more interesting for me, as a humble observer, is whether or not the successful candidates from these courses outside of the UK can actually assimilate into the JAA system as quickly as those who have trained in "Europe". That is, will they get jobs at the same rate as those who've trained within Europe? That will be the real and ultimate test of all these other approved schools, I should think.

[AIRWAY]

Gday Oz,

Hope all is well down your way, and regards from up north ( nice and hot for a change :ok: :} )

Who in NZ provides JAA training?

Cheers
Airway :ok:

[Meeb]

AIRWAY

JAR training in New Zealand is undertaken by a flying school located at Ardmore. It has approval through CTC who run courses for sponsored candidates from easyJet among others. Although I say sponsored, it is a course where the full cost is borne by the candidate/student.

OzExpat

You have it exactly. The UK CAA is only interested in the school being able to attain the required instructional standard to enable the students to pass the necessary exams/flight tests.

I find this quite unacceptable.

The CAA's defence is that there is nothing in the regulations to say a student should have real time or simulated experience in the UK/Europe environment. Again this is a 'cop out' in my view. It has caused major discussion and argument when overseas FTO's were first approved, nothing has changed.

Evidence now shows that students find the transition from USA/Australia/NZ to UK/Europe flying quite a challenge, especially regarding airspace and R/T.

It does not need to be this way. An overseas FTO could be very successful, but it needs a whole different mindset to the standard 'we train commercial pilots, so what’s the big deal with UK training' mentality. I have witnessed that last statement first hand, and all the politics behind it. Unfortunately its the student who suffers through poor planning and these schools who think because they have successfully jumped through the hoops of 'approval' they now need not bother too much about the actual content of their course.

It does not actually take much to achieve, just a desire to provide quality relevant training. An FTO who does this, and provides genuine good customer service, could corner the market.

*All of the above comments are my own views and do not relate to any specific FTO*

[OzExpat]

UK CAA actually commented on the standard of the quality systems in place here at the college during their visit
Having been involved in the auditing of "quality systems", I suspect that the UK CAA was actually referring to your in-house QA system. This system is intended to ensure that the organisation is doing all of the things in the way that the Regulator wants them done, usually based on an Exposition, or similar type of approved company document. This will not necessarily ensure a "European experience" unless you have the means to replicate the sort of things that Meeb specifically highlighted - ie airspace and R/T.

I'm not trying to generate a debate here. Merely making a suggestion which, as Meeb has confirmed, only requires the basic standards to be met by an approved foreign school. Those standards would include the exams and all the appropriate flight hours to qualify for the licence, but might not necessarily include any need to expose a trainee to the European aviation environment.

[Meeb]

Mark Davies , have you deleted your last post?

OzExpat, I take it your quote was from his deleted post?
It is rather confusing when people delete posts! Y I really would
like to know what was said regards quality, and by inference, content?

This thread could generate a good debate on the issues... over to you Mark...

[OzExpat]

Hmmm... maybe I hit a nerve eh? :}