Patrick has cotrol of VB

[Jimmy Neutron]

Just watching the ABC news and they announced Patrick has the controlling interest in Virgin Blue at 50.3%. Checked the Virgin Blue intranet and there is nothing there at all about it. I was under the impression that VB staff was supposed to be informed before the media :\ :\

[GalleyHag]

They are reporting the same on Sky Business News but going further saying that major management changes will be occuring shortly starting with the CEO.

[Bluebottle]

Jimmy they can't inform anyone until it has been announced to the asx, this was done this afternoon after the market closed.

[Buster Hyman]

I'm sure there's a line there about Virgin & F####D! But I can't think of one at the moment.:confused:

[Spotlight]

Droll Buster, very droll!

[PureRisk]

Yes young Buster......another bit of your reputation slips towards the ranks of a bitter GA pilot with non thought out comments !!!
what a pitty !!!!
This news can only benefit the pilots with the upcoming EBA. THe patrick owned Engineers in Sydney are now on more than they were with Ansett. Corrigan has a rep of playing hard but rewarding the skilled workers and taking from the unskilled. ie...FA's, bag chuckers etc etc ( the former burger flippers!)
time will tell I guess. Virgin Pacific just got a little bit closer too I think!!!

[Going Boeing]

Bleeting Brett is probably packing his bags right now.

[126.7]

Pure Risk, are you suggesting that just because FA's and Bag Chuckers did not learn to fly or fix aircraft, that they are unskilled?

[PLovett]

Now before you all get too excited, Patricks have made a full takeover offer. In fact, because of their already large holding they had to make a complete takeover offer. 50.1% is not enough.

In fact as I said on another thread, Patricks need 90% of the shares to complete their takeover (to be able to compulsorily acquire the remaining 10%) and they cannot count the 20% belonging to Branson (even though they are in a partnership and normally that would count in any takeover offer).

The Corporations Law is rigged in this way to prevent a large shareholder (such as Patricks) from being able to buy only a small amount of shares and then being able to control the company.

Now my memory gets dim but I think if Patricks fail to get the 90% he needs to be able to complete a full takeover the shares he has got to date have to go back. Someone who has done corporate law more recently than I ever did may be able to contribute more.

[PureRisk]

126.7 asks "are you suggesting that just because FA's and Bag Chuckers did not learn to fly or fix aircraft, that they are unskilled?"

IN one word YES !!!! thats is exactly what I am saying.
But for yourself and others who are a bit slow I will explain further.
FA's , bagchuckers, check in people, cleaners etc are not jobs that you have to have specific training or experience in prior to doing those specific jobs. They are jobs that anyone of sound mind can be TRAINED to do when they are employed. Pilots and engineers ARE prior educated, experienced (some more than others :E) and trained in their field prior to being able to apply and employed for their jobs. That is the same case as lawyers, doctors etc etc.
No one from MCDonalds can rack up the next day and apply and then be trained for these jobs like you can for FAs, bagchuckers etc...... DO you get it now???????
This is in short by defintion what the term SKILLED WORKER is.... not by me but but general work industries. And as I said before Corigan has a history in his other enterprises of recognising what a SKILLED job is and what is not and then subsequently renumerating a bit more fairly the formentioned jobs.

[Buster Hyman]

:rolleyes: Well chaps...we've outed another one!:rolleyes:

PureRisk Dear oh dear...where do I start. Research, research, research. A bitter GA pilot So wrong it's funny...no really!
Reputation! How dare you sir!
Dare I start down the path of the value of an Engineer over the value of a Pilot? Big can-o-worms that one, but if Engineers are being paid well, then all is right in the world. I wouldn't put too much faith in the EBA talks if Corrigan has a greater say in it! Oh well, not my problem.:hmm:
burger flippers Now, you're either talking about the Fillet-o-Fish, or you have absolutely no idea. Those FA's & Bag chuckers play a more vital role than you give them credit. If you don't see that now, you never will, so I wont bother wasting my precious 56k connection explaining it to the likes of you.
Pilots and engineers ARE prior educated, experienced ... and trained in their field prior to being able to apply and employed for their jobs. What downright arrogance! Your irresponsible attempt at a generalisation is the kind of attitude that denigrates the entire Tech Crew community. If you ever dare to grace a bond store in MEL, why not pop in to the Menzies one. Ask for a Loader named Michael and ask him what type of licences he holds.
Do YOU get it now??????? :suspect:

[Pete Conrad]

Corrigan sees an opportunity to make a quid. At the moment Virgin is bleeding in certain areas. He'll consolidate the business, where Bratt Godfrey wanted to expand beyond it's means in an ever increasingly competitive environment. Simple as that.

Purerisk, how has Virgin Pacific got a little bit closer? My understanding of Corrigan is of a merchant banker who would prefer to consolidate the business rather than outlay huge capital on a route that quite frankly, three other airlines are hammering to enter and may likely get over any Virgin attempt.

I find it hard to beleive that any employee group is safe to be frank. They could all be shafted in some way shape or form, not just financially.

Finally Purerisk, we have by your definition of a skilled worker, a gentleman working in our ops section as a crewing guy - he was an ex Concorde flight engineer. Not just your average Joe Blow hey?

[HGW]

Pete, sorry it's me again.
Virgin Pacific would be an Australian company and would not need the approval sought by SQ who could be shut out because of this. VP would be entitled to all routes QF fly.
It is widely known that Corrigan thinks PB are a crap product, like yourself and to be honest me as well, and is a supporter of VP.

It is going to be an interesting 3 to 6 months.

[Pete Conrad]

HGW, I have no doubt that PB will be one of the areas that Corrigan will look at, lets face it, they aren't making money, and they don't offer a better product that the competition. PB bet their whole bag of gold on the Qantas/Air NZ merger going ahead, and it didn't.

Virgin Pacific aside, I think we are all oblivious to whats happening in Singapore at the present time with Jetsar Asia and a certain leverage that is being used by SQ on the Australian Government.

Virgin had a model, and it worked when Ansett collapsed as a stop gap, however it's a different ballgame now, requiring someone with financial nouse. You think Jetsar is having an effect in Australia, and they are, you wait until they enter the Tasman, and then the Pacific.

No employee group will be safe, no section of the business will be untouchable and no one for one minute should underestimate the fight that will ensue. Digressing a bit, do you think Dixon will be watching with interest? You wait and see what he's got planned. Yeah, it's going to be interesting.

[HGW]

Amazingly I agree with you on this Pete. From all fronts and no matter what side you or I support this will be the most interesting 6 months since Ansett went down.
Virgin (Corrigan) has learnt from the Jetstar experience. It will be interesting to see two formidable businessman go up against each other, or it could end up being a cosy duopoly as before (QF & AN). Corrigan seems to like this format and has shown he can work with GD e.g. the engine shop in MEL.
For employees, Corrigan has shown through all his ventures that he rewards high productivity with high wages. All Patricks employees earn more now than what they did before Corrigan. I don't think is much to fear on this one. Ask any waterfront worker or ex AN engineer.

[Ultralights]

ahhh good to be back. some good news for once!

just a quick comment. wont be long now till we see freight on Virgin AC........

(and crossed fingers for a competitor to Aust air express aka Quaintarse!)

[king oath]

So Brett gets the flick.

He can take all that money and buy a small island somewhere. Like Tasmania. Why work again, when you have a shizenload of money.

[Wirraway]

Mon "Sydney Morning Herald" late news

Super cheap fares may go at Virgin Blue
March 21, 2005 - 4:49PM

The first causalities from Patrick Corporation Ltd's majority stake in Virgin Blue Holdings are expected to be super cheap airfares and the airline's foray into the Pacific.

But analysts warned the new regime may not be able to trim much else off the budget airline.

The market expects a "new-look" Virgin Blue will have to position itself between Qantas Airways and its subsidiary Jet Star and become more freight orientated.

Mr Corrigan will also probably target Pacific Blue, which flies to New Zealand, Fiji and Vanuatu.

"Pacific Blue's future is either you keep doing it, or shut it down," said one analyst who did not want to be named.

"You can't make it smaller ... and as it is, it's not making any money."

Analysts also believe Virgin Blue chief executive Brett Godfrey may be forced out.

© 2005 AAP

Click here for FULL story (http://www.smh.com.au/news/Business/Super-cheap-fares-may-go-at-Virgin-Blues/2005/03/21/1111253943603.html?oneclick=true)

===========================================

[The Enema Bandit]

I guess if Brett gets forced out, it will really give him something to whinge about. I wonder who would replace him? Gary Toomey perhaps??

[HGW]

James Strong or Rod Eddington

[Buster Hyman]

Brett Godfrey may be forced out
Aww Geez! I bet I get stuck behind him in the line at Centrelink!:rolleyes:

[HGW]

My mail says tomorrow afternoon.

[PureRisk]

I am Sure His, 70 !!!!!!! ODD MILLION will soften the blow....

[Beer Can Dreaming]

Chris Corrigan is certainly no fool.

He has made it quite clear that he is less than impressed with the way in which Virgin Blue has been run.

He rightly has realised that the low cost model offered by VB just after the collapse of Ansett is simply not cutting it in this market of added competition and rising fuel prices.

He also wants to see a return to the duopoly of sorts that AN and QF had.
Slashing each others throats has benefited nobody.
Those that whinge about losing their $29 fares are the first to whine when services are cut back or cost cutting is a reality after lack of profits.
Not to mention when money is saved in things like engineering and basic services.

Expect to see a dedicated and proper business class established on VB.
The "Blue room" I think its called will be for business class pax and members only, rather than the "bucket and thong brigade" that pays their $5 or whatever it is.

Corrigan is an outstanding business person that has invested in order to see a return and not the squadering that Branson and Godfrey offered with $1 fares.

Corrigan has a long memory, especially after Branson upped Corrigans offer of $1.90 per share to something like $2.20 and insisted that the shares were valued at $2.40 - $2.90 !!!!

I love the way that Branson never revealed the source of what was accurately described by one financial analyst as "the most ridiculous undisclosed valuation I have had to fortune to witness".

Branson and Godfrey play games - Corrigan means business.

[126.7]

Pure Risk mmm Indeed.

Skilled : Meaning to be properly trained or experienced, FA's, bag chuckers and the like are certainly this.

Professional : Belonging to a profession, maintaining proper standard, Pilots and engineers should certainly be this.

You stated that FA's, Bagchuckers and the like are unskilled. Sir you clearly got upset with my question regarding what you meant and even tried to say that I did not understand. You clearly do not understand the English language and as Buster said you are very unappreciative of the work they do. Fine their are some bad eggs, just like with Pilots, Engineers or Lawers. However, their work is vital to our livelihood.

Congratulations on using the Patricks takeover discussion to show your inability to work and respect people in the industry.


NOW DO YOU UNDERSTAND

[Dehavillanddriver]

I love this quote...

"Pacific Blue's future is either you keep doing it, or shut it down," said one analyst who did not want to be named.

No **** sherlock!

No wonder he didn't want to be named!

I wonder what the other options were - " we can make a hat..." (to steal a quote from the movie Flying High)

The interesting thing is that Corrigan has had effective control of the board since the company floated - and as such had been involved in every board decision made since - to suggest that the direction of the company is against his wishes is possibly a little disingenious.

That being said I think that if he steps up and starts taking day to day control of the operation it will be a good thing.

The old chinese proverb is appropriate here - we live in interesting times!

[Pete Conrad]

You don't have to be Einstein to realise that WHEN Jetstar enter the Tasman and the Pacific, there will be an all in war between three low cost carriers in SJ, PB and JQ. It's not sustainable as it currently stands, all airlines are doing it hard on the Tasman. Corrigan is better off getting Pacific Blue out of the Tasman and consolidating the business on Australian shores.

Dehavillanddriver, I think you will find that Corrigan couldn't change the direction of the company due to the model that had been set in place, a sort of go with the flow situation. If he gives Godfrey the heave hoe, then he has the ways and means to start that consolidation process in motion.


HGW, lets just hope that in all this consolidation and rewarding of employees that do good work and work hard, that we don't end up with another Valuejet....

[Point0Five]

Out of pure curiosity... what is this topic really about?

Corrigan has taken control of Virgin.... who didn't see that comming? The same people that didn't see Packer setting himself up to take control of Crown Casino?

Virgin has replaced Ansett... bring on the duopoly! It's all wrong, but that's life. Just keep an eye on SQ:bored:

Infighting solves nothing.

[Icarus2001]

126.7

You clearly do not understand the English language Fine their are some bad eggs

Love your work.:rolleyes:

You are missing the point about "skilled". A flight attendant or baggage handler can turn up on day one having never done the job before and be competent at it in only a few weeks.
A pilot or engineer cannot. These professions bring a skill set to their job that is a pre-requisite.

This in no way devalues the job of F/A or baggage handler.

[Buster Hyman]

4 hours for FA training actually Icarus, however, your point is correct.

The skill set is a matter of training, apptitude & opporunity. Denigrating FA's & "bag chuckers" because they don't have the required skill, do not have the desire to acquire the required skill nor the resources to fund the gaining of those skills needed to fly is unnecessary.

Pure risk is obviously upset by the fact that FA's & "bag chuckers" have a negotiating skill that pilots do not.:hmm:

[Ultralights]

just thinking today after handing my latest fuel cheque to Shell, (now for a record $1200 for the last 5 day period for diesel) i was thinking about Patrick corp and VB.
Everyone knows QF, VB and others will hike up the fuel surcharge in wake of the new record crude prices, dispite still being hedged at $US38 per barrel.

I was wondering if Patrick corp also has their fuel/oil hedged at a price much lower than current open market prices, for their truck and locomotive fleets? and if so, will this carry across to the VB part of the business? allowing VB to purchase JetA1 at the same price as Diesel oil. ??

[Capt Claret]

Ultralights

I have a vague recollection, in the early days of the current surge in oil prices, of a press report suggesting that VB had little or no fuel hedging.

[Keg]

Was there again yesterday Clarrie. This from news.com.au


Unlike Qantas, Virgin Blue has not put hedging contracts in place to protect it against increases in fuel costs for 2005-06.



That said, I don't know what value QF is hedged at! The other issue is that I'm not sure that QF hedges ALL of it's fuel. It has a bit of a sliding scale and the contracts run out at all different times so some may be at $38, some may be at $45, etc, etc.

[Barbossa]

Virgin Blue floundering about (AFR) - Conventional wisdom last May said Geoff Dixon was risking the Qantas (QAN-HOLD) franchise by starting Jetstar, but as of yesterday all the internal corporate confusion was centred in the Brisbane headquarters of fellow duopolist Virgin Blue (VBA-ADD). The company's major shareholders are at war. The company is
undergoing a hostile takeover from within. There is an internal fight over strategy; question marks over who is running the shop; basic mismanagement to leave a fuel bill unhedged; and a fundamental question of just what sort of airline it wants to be. The latter issue was the one supposed to dog Qantas, with conventional wisdom saying discount carriers and mainstream
carriers can't lie in the same bed. Dixon has so far proved the naysayers wrong by turning potential adversity into a big plus for Qantas by using the low-cost carrier as leverage to lower costs across the board in what must rank as one of the most successful management strategies in recent corporate Australian history. Instead of the internal culture clash
predicted at Qantas, it is Virgin that doesn't seem to know whether it wants to be a business airline, a discount carrier or both. The only thing we know for sure is Chris Corrigan from Patrick is in control and, for his own sake, the sooner he starts to pull the levers the better it will be for his shareholders. Oil price rises simply don't explain the full extent of the losses indicated by yet another profit warning, this time by 15 per cent to $135 million. External problems have maximum effect when the
internal machine isn't running well and that is what is happening at Virgin.

Argh..they be storm clouds gathering...

[Buster Hyman]

There is an internal fight over strategy; question marks over who is running the shop; basic mismanagement to leave a fuel bill unhedged; and a fundamental question of just what sort of airline it wants to be.
All they need to do now, is paint the aircraft in Ansett colours!:rolleyes:

[PureRisk]

Mmmmmm Are you sure your not a little Bitter Ga man buster???

[Beer Can Dreaming]

Check out the thread about VB dragging down Patrick Corp.
Says it all really.
Agree that things can only improve with Corrigan at the helm and Godfrey replaced with an appropriate manager.

[Buster Hyman]

Little-Absolutely not!
Bitter-Only with Lemon
GA man-Never have, never will.

Nah, just think its all coming full circle.

[Ultralights]

my question was is Patrick corp hedged against higher oil prices, NOT Virgin Blue....

and if patrick corp rail and freight company is hedged, (and im sure they would be) will the hedged contracts transfer to the Purchase of Jet A1 for the Virgin aircraft. ???

[Capt Claret]

DOH! RTFQ :uhoh: how many times have I heard that? :\