View Full Version : American ATP exam marks

Loose rivets
17th Mar 2005, 08:01
A while back, I was at Branif's Boeing school. Okay, a good while back. An instructor was overheard saying, that's why nobody every gets 100% (in the ATP exam)

Was this true? And what of modern times, is it possible to get full marks?

Onan the Clumsy
17th Mar 2005, 14:01
nobody or everybody :confused:

Seeing as your answers go into a big black hole and then they spit out a grade telling you not which answers you got wrong, but which subject areas to study and further considering that the various expert publications like Gleims and ASA are sometimes unable to provide a deinative answer or often change answers between publications and further considering that the test you take isn't exactly like the book you studied, I would say...err what was the question again :zzz:

Having said that (or not) I got 100% on FOI :8

17th Mar 2005, 15:56

Foreign Object Insertion?

Biggles Flies Undone
17th Mar 2005, 15:59
Flying Over India?

West Coast
17th Mar 2005, 16:02
Fundementals of instruction

The most gad awful droll behind how a student learns and how to teach.

Ok, what are the 4 levels of understanding Onan?

Biggles Flies Undone
17th Mar 2005, 16:04
I don't think anyone understands Onan.....

My names Turkish
17th Mar 2005, 17:19
I know someone who got 100% in the ATP. Fair play to him he memorized all 2000 questions or whatever it is. Strange system where they give you the test to study before the exam is it not?

17th Mar 2005, 18:02
I once had to transform myself into a Flight Engineer, at least on paper, so that I, too, plowed through all 900-odd questions for the FE Recip written, backed up with a DC-6 Flight Crew Operating Manual. Holy mackerel! From Beech BE-95 Travel-Air to this behemoth in one bound!

That thing was surprisingly sophisticated for its day, with anti-skid brakes (?) and lots of other cool stuff too.

I spent one week coccooned with the books and then couldn't take any more studying so that I headed off to Burnside-Ott and did a knowledge dump into the FAA computer. I got 92% on the written but I don't think you would have wanted me doing my thing as an FE in real terms. I just needed the ticket as a way of getting into Nigeria, where the DC-6s were history already.

There is something odd about a system that lets you study the test questions. It leaves the door open to a certain sort of geek with a capacity for retaining facts but no real comprehension of their significance. Hopefully they catch this on the practical test.

17th Mar 2005, 23:36
Well ... I don't know for the ATP, but I was also amazed by this little book, given by my instructor, a week priot to the practical CPL test : the Oral Exam Prep Guide, where you basically find all the questions the examiner may ask ... and do ask, by the way.
It's a strange system, as others mentionned, but I found the general approach more practical in US, and too much Theoretical in Europe.
As a matter of fact, I felt my training in USA gave me more useful stuff for my everyday Business Pilot job, than my training in Europe did.

My names Turkish
18th Mar 2005, 14:35
Porco, Yes I agree with you about the better practicalities of the FAA system. The hardest part of the Exams is the Spoken part. There is no where to hide, and they are long. The one for the CFI will take a day usually. I think its a better way as people can fluke through written exams.

I wonder why they don't just do away with the written as many people just memorise the questions, even ones involving calculations and have no understanding of the subject at all.

Onan the Clumsy
18th Mar 2005, 15:00
Ok, what are the 4 levels of understanding Onan?
How about...

Pshat=simple interpretation


Drush=homiletical interpretation

Sod=mystical interpretation.

Or is it...

Shariat: Shariah is the exoteric level and is related to the level of quranic civil and religious law and literal understanding of the verses of Quran. this is the lever of the Zahir, or visible.

Tariqat: the "Path", is the beginning of the hidden or "batini" understanding of Quran. Sufi orders and Ismaili tariqat begin at this level. The hermeneutic interpretation, or "Tawil" (lit: to return to the first) of the Quran begins at this level. Understanding of the amthal, or metaphors and similies of the Quran on the physical, noetic and spiritual planes is stressed. The law is interpreted from this level and certain rules of the tariqa are established for the perfection of the postulant.

Maarifat: Maarifat is the station of "Irfan", or gnosis. Here the Arif (gnostic) understands the subtleties of the Quran and is inspired from the Malakut or angelic realms. Subtleties and indications of the Beloved are seen in the sensory and internal worlds.

Haqiqat: the fruit of maarifat, the arif becomes annihilated in al-Haqq, the Divine reality, and subsists only through the qudrat, or will of Allah. This is the station alluded to by the martyr Mansur al Hallaj when he was crucified and burned for saying, "ana il Haqq" I am the Truth. This is the Divine realm, the Sinai of Lovers where only the converse between the Lover and Beloved is undestood and the Quran is the point of the Bismillah, the Mole on the Cheek of the Beloved.

Or is is the ones I learned here in Texas...

"We don't hold with none of that damn fool Yankee nonsense" (I don't really understand it)

"Well Bobby Sue now you come to mention it that does seem like a good idea to see if I can jump my truck across this here creek bed. Pass me another beer" (I have grasped some of the more obvious ideas but am still unaware of the subtler and more important implications of my impending actions)

"I'm fixin' to get real famil'ar with this" (My brief stay in hospital has allowed me to understand that I should perhaps apply myself more fully to this task)

"It's as obvious as the gun rack in my truck... as the horns on Farmer Jessop's bull... as the prize pig at the State Fair... as the hairs on my Aunt Tillie's chin" (I believe I have acquired a solid comprehension of the matters at hand and certain ramifications which were hitherto unforseen have become glaringly obvious)

...erm I forgot the real ones though :(

Dances with Boffins
18th Mar 2005, 15:10
First one is "Rote".

Our bretheren over t'pond have to publish all questions prior to asking them in an examination. Its the law. They aren't even allowed to vary the syntax of a question between the version published in a book and the actual question asked in the exam. So you buy your book of 2000 questions, learn the answers, take the test, and if you don't get 100%, you desrve to be shot.

Greatest country in the world.

18th Mar 2005, 16:04
And you wonder why nobody really understands you Onan :p

Onan the Clumsy
18th Mar 2005, 16:19
Jerricho my old pal it's simple really

The first four are the levels oif understanding as they pertain to the Torah. The second four are the LoU as they pertain to the Quoran and the Final Four are where you hope you placed your money.

18th Mar 2005, 16:28
West Coast,

4 levels of understanding.

Unconscious Incompetent

Conscious Incompetent

Conscious Competent

Unconscious Competent

Starting at the top and working way down (although I know at least a few people trying to go the other way)



Onan the Clumsy
18th Mar 2005, 16:31
What about Unconcious Incontinent? :}

18th Mar 2005, 16:41

Only those of such advancing years as yourself reach that stage.

:O :O :O



West Coast
18th Mar 2005, 16:42

About the only thing of use in the whole FOI book

Onan the Clumsy
18th Mar 2005, 16:46
thx. I remembered it at the time :(

18th Mar 2005, 17:32
If you truely wish to recieve enlightenment and be saved, send $10000 to one of them TV evangelist guys. It's true I tells ya.

18th Mar 2005, 17:59
I'll give you lots of money after my nice Nigerian friend gives me the millions of dollars, held in a special account for me. I just have to e-mail him back and give him my credit card number......