Jetstar Sign New EBA ?

[DJ747]

Heard via the grapevine that the Jetstar pilots have signed a new EBA with reasonable increases to salary.

Anyone care to elaborate ?

[Jet Jockey]

Yes correct current DJ EBA + 9% + overtime. Yeah!

[DJ747]

If correct, then this should give the VB negotiators something to aim for OR exceed.

So Jetstar Captains on $160k + as basic now hey ? When does this commence ?

[QF Quoll]

makes the NJS 717 deal look even better :{

[Howard Hughes]

That's good news...

Now ring you Ba$tard$, RING!!

Cheers, HH.

:ok:

[Australia2]

Greetings All,

Can anyone else please confirm whether this is the case ?

If so, great news - well done guys and girls. Good to see things finally going in the right direction down there !!

Oz2

[Keg]

Speaking of things J*, I spoke to a S/O the other day with previous heavy command experience who had managed to get a J* guernsey under the MoU only to not be released from QF due to lack of S/Os on the fleet. J* told him that he was more than welcome to join them but the only way that he could go was to resign from QF as QF wouldn't release him.

He told them 'no' but what good is a MoU if those that want to make do it can't even use it! :rolleyes:

[sport]

who had managed to get a J* guernsey

The story I hear in J*A is they all share their guernseys not enough to go round when you get off your flight you hand your jacket to the next crew.

I hope they keep their socks and undies.

[fartsock]

Hey Keg is it true that you have been awarded a Jet* command and will be starting shortly. ?

[Keg]

ROFLMAO!! Now that IS a good one fartsock! DId you hear that one or are you just trying to start it? :E :} (Or have you heard something I haven't! :eek: )

No, my long stated aim is F/O B744 or 767 Command. The way the numbers look likely to fall (depending on what happens in March/April/May with respect to new aircraft types), F/O 744 is the most likely result! :ok:

(Sorry for the diversion folks! :cool: )

[The Enema Bandit]

Rumour has it fartsock has been offered a job as a check captain at Jetstar.

[fartsock]

Jesus H Christ Bandit !!

I wouldnt be fit to check my own boobla most days let alone train or check other pilots.

Anyhow, my info is the training staff at JQ are doing a great job under occasionally difficult conditions.

Good luck with your -400 slot Keg.

[BankAngle50]

Jet* monkeys on 9% more than DJ! Yeah right. someone's been into the red wine again. also no 15K in July, which the DJ boys still get working about 60 hours /month. J* working over 100 on their dispensation with over time still get less than DJ. Joke!:yuk:
The tossers even took the same pay on the A320 as the DC9. Not sure whats worse the kiwis or J*:\

[Gnadenburg]

Bank Angle

If you are placing Virgin Blue pilots on some kind of wage & conditions pedestal it is time for me to buy a milk bar!

[BankAngle50]

Let me state categorically that the conditions at DJ are ****e! Just not as bad as J*

[spinout]

9%...

3 year EBA = 3%+3%+3%

is the standard Q deal...
:rolleyes:

[REM]

BankAngle 50
I take great offence at being refered to as a monkey. I and my colleagues who have recently joined Jet* have 10,000+ hours, many thousands on the A320, and many more on other jets. If we are monkies, what are QF and DJ recruiting?
Who the hell are you to tell me what I should accept as a reasonable pay? You know NOTHING of my personal circumstances.
Many of the guys have come back from overseas jobs to be with their families again; is that a crime or must they wait until a job comes up that has pay and conditions that meet with your approval?

[BankAngle50]

Jet* pay peanuts. Monkeys are attracted to peanuts! Et al!!!
Who the hell are you to tell me what I should accept as a reasonable pay?
I didn’t remember telling to accept anything??? Do as you will, just the kiwi’s do; working for nothing.
Don’t give me the expat excuse either. I have done years OS myself. It puts you in a finical position to come back to OZ and accept “pocket money” and in turn drive wages down locally conditions for those whom have no choice but to accept them. :yuk:

[Iakklat]

REM a bit of justifying going on for your little cause.
10000+ hrs flying around OZ WOW!!!.
I bet you are in this downward spiral because of your actions so many years ago.
Big wheel baby, yeah!!!!
Enjoy the pocket money you monkey.

[Gnadenburg]

BankAngle

Why shouldn't someone like REM come home and undercut Virgin pilots? He may have been undercut himself a few years ago when flying for Ansett.

As a great antagoniser of strained Antipodean relations, I must give credit where credit is due, Kiwi pilots ( and Phillipinoes for that matter ) are not in the same league as Australians - the true cellar dwellars of professional piloting conditions worldwide.

[alidad]

Gnonadberg,
You have been up ti your ol' tricks in front of the mirror again. Firstly you did not listen to your Mummy's advice about going blind on overnights, but then again most of your F/A's are old enough to be your Mum- and that just would not seem right, would it now?
What a quandary for an aviation legend for one such as your good self...

[Capt Claret]

What a wonderful and constructive post alidad. Rather than debate the issue, call some one an oedipal w@nker.

In my view, this is a classic example of why Australian pilots conditions will continue to fall in my life time. No one is allowed a contrary view, without being slagged! :{

[alidad]

Apologies to Capt Claret if you find that offensive. However it is aimed squarely at an arrogant QF lad who needs to be put in place.
I acknowledge that it may be factually inaccurate as the current QF EBA does not pay pilots an entertainment allowance for such activities. It is therefore highly improbable that he would engage in a strenuous task without just reward for his effort.

[Iakklat]

Hey Alidag what makes you think that Gnadenburg is so deperate that he needs to work for QF.
Gnadenburg has hit the nail on the head, its not a sign of arrogance, just someone unlike yourselves may i suggest that is/was so desperate for a "job".

[Pete Conrad]

How can you farkin call someone who has to make the move home to Oz due to personal reasons and then accepts a job, albeit with Jetstar a monkey? For fark sake, the sh!tward trend in wages started long before farking Jetstar by the way!

[Iakklat]

:yuk:

[ur2]

I have been advised that NO EBA has been signed.

The original post is just VB BS.

[Capt Claret]

alidad

Not offended as such, just disappointed.

It seems to me that calls for unity amongst pilots are almost universal. But very few seem to practise it. If some one's of the opposite veiw, there's little attempt to sway their point of view by arguing the point.

BUT I doubt calling any one names will do anything but entrench their belief or position.

[Woomera]

Thanks Clarrie,

Children children children, play nicely and stay on thread please, no gouging or sharp sticks lest someone gets hurt.:p

Your enemy is outside the gates not in.:rolleyes:

Go dust off Ernie Ganns "Band of Brothers" and have a quiet read with a good bottle of wine.

[matca]

Fair Dinkum,

What chance has a pilot got in this country when you are being continually undermined by;

'You don't know my circumstances'

'Being forced to pay for endorsements'

and working for nothing to build up hours.

c'mon, have a bit of professional pride fellas (and birds)

[Chilli Muscle]

Great news - 9% over 3 years.
That means in the year 2023 the flight crew will be earning what they were in the year 2000.

What will real estate be worth then ?.

Great pay deal - keep up the good work:yuk:

[Gnadenburg]

Woomera

To suggest the enemy is outside the gate, a cop out to those who continue to toil for the preservation of piloting conditions
and mittigating the compromise of Low Cost Australian pilots.

There is real sentiment emerging out there ( amongst flagship carriers etc ) to sell out the next generation of pilots. If I can get a payrise but the pilots joining my outfit allocated a B scale. Why not? Especially if they are Low Cost Pilots.

Virgin Blue pilots have been vigorous, but not too successful, in furthering their opportunities elsewhere. This has not gone unnoticed by aviation managements and used as a weapon against improved conditons in many pilot markets.

On the other side of the coin, are pilots working abroad now not justified coming home and undercutting VB pilots through employment with J*? The core of experienced original VB pilots, former 89ers, probably felt similarily justified to come home and undercut 1) strikebreakers and 2) unsupporting QF Longhaul pilots.

Perhaps herin lies the problem. A multiple paradox. Countered only by pilots striving within their own organisations trying to to improve and better conditions. So nick off VB pilots trying to go elsewhere!

Alidad

You have ably demonstrated your limited powers of comprehension- a prerequisite to be a QF pilot. I don't know where your bitterness toward QF pilots has come from, or why, but you have manifested it in two foolish responses.

A blessing for you, the flourishing of buy a job and Low Cost Piloting!

REM

Good luck in J*and welcome home. They are fortunate to obtain your experience and I hope yourself and others can up the conditions somewhat.

[Ty Webb]

All I can say Gnadenburg is you must be fit!

Only a very fit bloke could sit there and belt themselves for that long.:rolleyes:

[Woomera]

Gnadenburg

I do not intend to engage you in a p!ssing contest.

Blind Freddy can see that the real enemy is not your fellow pilots but the new economic conditions and management who may wish to exploit them and your differences.

A multiple paradox. indeed :(.

One needs only to study the history of United Airlines to their current situation to see the several denouements possible, none of them are attractive to the pilots and all of which are a serious economic and competitive worry to Qantas et al.

Perhaps we are in a different and deregulated economic universe to the one that existed in '89, the evidence suggests that it is so? The economic protection of the 2 airline agreement was still on foot, it is not now.
Is it still possible, as it was. for competing airlines pilots to march in lock step on wages and conditions?

I have my own views on it but they aren't relevant here.

My only motivation in the post was to encourage you all to quit personalising the posts and get on with discussion of the issues and merits.
Aggression only works when you can follow through physically, as you are unable to do so here, you have to rely on the power of your argument.

So lets get on with it shall we.:ok:

[ur2]

BE ADVISED:
NO NEW EBA HAS BEEN SIGNED OFF ON FOR JETSTAR PILOTS AS YET!

[elektra]

Thing to focus on is that there are way, way more flying jobs around now than would have ever been the case had we continued with the Two Airline Policy. Few could see then the amazing growth that low fares and innovation would bring.

There are now so many more career paths than existed then and so many more entry level positions. And if some of those aren't quite A-level pay and conditions so what?

Almost all any "wannabee" pilots wants is an opportunity and more jobs fits that bill. Be they Jetstar or VB or anyone else....the first airline job, that first jet rating and the first 500 hours are the key to the future.

[DirectAnywhere]

Yeah elektra, but what's the future look like to you??

[Gnadenburg]

Woomera

Wasn't a pi$$ing contest but more of a discussion.

I would suggest pilots are the enemy. The capitulation of conditions in Australia generally the result of one group of pilots undercutting another.

Sure, as you have suggested, management can use the bitterness and professional envy of pilots ( look no further than Alidad and Ty Webb's QF jealousy ) as a catalyst to add further decay to conditions of service.

Virgin Blue management have proved to be masters of these antics where employees are too naive and caught up in negative sentiments toward their rival airlines, to realise they are being exploited in terms of relative conditions. Anecdotal evidence suggests J* pushes this a little bit too.


Ty Webb

That contribution, on an anonymous forum, a very real insight into your own perversions.

You can do better than that. You have slithered back down the aviation slippery pole. You have something to add surely?


Electra

Bringing an airline career to within easy reach of anyone who will pay for a jet endorsement has already eroded conditions and deskilled the industry. Soon that first 500 hours of airline experience will have a price- so our wannabe can have the experience to go and get a suitably renumerating position abroad. What you have described is a GA mentality.

Attrition ( skills ) and experience ( market scarcity ) are factors that preserve the profession.

[cunninglinguist]

" VB wages plus 9% "

" so jet* captains on 160k+ as basic "

funny, as at 1/7/04, VB captains on 129,998 basic, when I add 9% to this I don't get 160+..............should have paid more attention in maths class I spose.

[Howard Hughes]

Gnadenburg,

Bringing an airline career to within easy reach of anyone who will pay for a jet endorsement has already eroded conditions and deskilled the industry

Whilst I agree 100% with your first point, how does paying for an endorsement make you any less skilled? There are people at ALL COMPANIES that despite their keeness to fly, probably should have chosen other careers, yet still they persist and manage to pass their checks!!

Are cadet's who have paid for the privilege any less skilled?
I think not!! In fact probably some of the brightest young pilots I have met have taken this route.

If you mean people are less experienced, then yes that would be true, however don't confuse experience with skill, cause I can assure you that there are many experienced Captains out there with little or no skill left!! It is their experience that gets them by!! Whilst they espouse great virtues of airmanship, some would'nt know what day it was without the rest of the crews help.

Let me ask you this question.
Why are fighter jocks, generally cocky SOB's in their early twenties?
Because this is when you are at your peak!!

Why are military instructors generally in their early thirties?
Because they are close enough to their peak to remember how it was and experienced enough to be able to impart some knowledge!!

Soon that first 500 hours of airline experience will have a price- so our wannabe can have the experience to go and get a suitably reMUNerating position abroad

Welcome to the new millenium. Anyway at least he/she wont be trying to take yours.

What you have described is a GA mentality

Could you please elaborate? What exactly is a GA mentality?

Cheers, HH.

:ok:

[jetblues]

Cunning start with correct info and you have half a chance of getting correct answers.

VB basic $133k + $15K = $148k basic.

$148 x 9% = $161+ k

Maths work for me.

Either way still too damned low, but hey heading in the right direction.

We await new EBA details in anticipation.

[Gnadenburg]

Howard

I stand by my belief thay paying for training has deskilled the industry.

Firstly, companies have got away without investing suitably in training facilities. This may have changed, but certainly one airline was allowed to start in this country with it's pilots having bought bargain basement jet training packages in the USA.

Airline selection process is often flawed but it is an attempt to ensure the heavy financial investment not wasted. This creates attrition and perceived skill from airline accountants. This seems to translate into wages and conditions. I doubt whether Low Cost pilots at Virgin Blue or J* would have to bother with a simulator selection ride, as they are paying for their training and no risk to the airline.

Your military analogy is totally irrelevant ( and can we keep cadets out of it as a pandorahs box could be opened) . But you seem to have a QF/RAAF slant on things. If you want to talk army stuff than my rebuttle is the Korean War where the average age of an ace was mid 30's with highly experienced WW2 fighter backgrounds. Experience and skill in the new jet age certainly defeated "cocky early 20's inexperienced Chinese/ Nth Koreans pilots". Staying on topic it can be added that technology today in both the military and civilian aviation fields is putting less value on experience.

Moving on to what was only a quip about Australian pilots working their first 500 jet hours for little remuneration to gain experience for jet positions abroad. This is a foolish GA mentality that has pervaded the industry. And Australian pilots at home have not realised the damage they are doing to wider conditions abroad- how do you think it looks to overseas carriers with large numbers of Low Cost Australian pilots - J*, VB, Australian - on their books? They can not understand why pilots would want to leave a beautiful country like Australia to live in the desert or the Far East. They then believe they are paying too much.

No value on skill ( paying for training ) or experience ( the pilot commodity is easily created ) have been devastatingly detrimental to pilot conditions in Asutralia. And so willingly embraced by Australian pilots who arguably are the world wide prostitutes of the industry.


Cunninguilist

The ol' factoring of me VB wage trick. Often seen at pubs, clubs and parties around Australia. Our intrepid VB aviator usually factors allowances, superannuation, Sir Richard's X-Mas present etc to make his wage look half decent.

[cunninglinguist]

Sorry about missing the $3002 Jet blues, damn outta date wage websites;)
However I always understood Basic to mean just that, and not including bonuses, no matter what they are called.

Gnads,
Yep :p

[jetblues]

I think you will find most (?) VB pilots consider the $15k bonus as part of their basic. Why, because it is GUARANTEED and not linked to profit or performance. The $15k is in the pay every year, its that simple.

Whatever.....