A wee Aberdeen Thread

[Richard Taylor]

Well,other airports have their own thread,why not my own?!

I am more optmistic about ABZ fortunes than in a long while.

OK we'll never be another LHR or even EDI,but we have record pax nos passing through the terminal,with healthy growth on domestic & international traffic & an increase in freight as well.

Now we're to become a 24hr airport & a possible runway extension in the offing I'm more hopeful of even better things to come.

BAA say they are talking to operators in the wake of the 24hr announcement & the rumoured runway extension has come about as the result of a couple of enquiries from interested operators.

Eastern are the No.1 airline at ABZ in terms of fixed-wing movements just now,& they will add to it when the direct SOU link(Saab 2000)starts tomorrow.Advance bookings are said to be encouraging.

Citystar have been pilot training at Dyce all of this weekend,& it seems the OSL service will finally start on 28/3 after an initial delay in Jan.

I hope things are on the up now & remain so...to infinity!! :)

[terrywilcox]

Richard,what do you know about FLYBE. As you know Eastern fly to HUY Humberside,but I have heard that flybe are looking at a route taking in DSA Doncaster Finningley,known officially as Robin Hood Airport Doncaster Sheffield.

[Richard Taylor]

Morning Terry.

Only what I've heard & the in the media to be honest.

ABZ is rumoured to be a base eventually for Flybe.

Their 1st route for ABZ starts on 28/3,BHD-ABZ-BHD.Will be M-F initially,but timetable I saw eventually adds a Sat & Sun flight as well.

I am wondering whether they are going to assess this route's performance before deciding on a base for ABZ.

Flybe have been rumoured to be looking at ABZ flights to LPL,BHX,NWI,SOU,EXT and Scandinavian flights also,which if all went ahead,I suppose would make ABZ a base in all but name!

There have been calls for a Flybe NCL service from here(competition for EZE)which may eventually come.

I have also heard about DSA flights,to compete with EZE on HUY but it's all just conjecture at this stage-Flybe seemed to have been linked with every route from ABZ under the sun!

:)

[GrahamK]

What equipment at T3 currently using on the ABZ-NCL-SOU and v.v?

[Richard Taylor]

Mixture of JE41 & Saab 2000.Latter does the morning T3 4091/2
rotation ABZ-NCL-SOU & back,as well as the afternoon T3 4095/6
same routing.Arrives back at ABZ 2050hrs.

T3 today have a new direct ABZ-SOU flight starting today with the Saab2000,believe flight T3 4803/4,this one leaves ABZ lunchtime(can't remember time) & arrives back at ABZ 1505hrs.

The off-peak ABZ-NCL-ABZ flight (T3 4033/4) is a JE41,as is the teatime T3 4094/4039 (SOU-NCL-ABZ-NCL).

[ALLMCC]

Richard, you seem to have a good handle on ABZ. What effect do you think Flybe ABZ - BHD will have on T3's ABZ - BFS. IMHO, there will too much capacity on what is essentially a fairly thin route. Having a look at Flybe's pricing, their fares seem to be on average around 20% of T3's. Can't see even the business fraternity ignoring a saving like that!

Do you think T3 will pull this one despite the fact they have recently upgraded to a J41?

[airhumberside]

Weather Flybe do DSA-ABZ will depend on weather they choose to serve DSA or HUY

[Rooster_mk1]

Richard,

Some good stuff there mate, hopefully there 'Will' be lots more to come for ABZ.

I must admit after our previous posts about the 24-hr Ops i am both shocked and amazed that a 'runway extension' is now being mentioned:hmm: :suspect:

Not that i am one for i told you so but...................

Anyway, what do we all think? Will ABZ's Runway ever get extended to allow growth or will it just be talked about for the next 20 years?

Forgive me for sounding cynical.

Rooster:ok:

[aeulad]

I would expect Flybe to announce new Aberdeen routes in the near future, possibly in time for the coming winter season.

I would bet money on Birmingham and Norwich.

Flybe are evaluating both Humberside and DSA. no decision has been made public as yet, but one of the two will become a Flybe destination. Unfortunately, my money is on DSA for EDI, GLA, BHD and regional French routes.

Regards

Mike

[Richard Taylor]

T3 seem to be a very resiliant operator.They seem to have the right size of aircraft serving a niche market.They are targetting the business market(with the fares they charge!).I am certain some of the rotations(especially off peak)are single figure pax,yet T3 makes money out of them,so there you go!

Re Belfast,I have a feeling T3 will continue on Belfast(whether BFS as at present or BHD remains to be seen).I hope there is a market for both BE & T3,although my own thoughts are that if BE's fares are lower,you would think pax would cross over from T3 to BE.However T3 mainly time their flights to serve business pax(Belfast is actually the exception,the single M-F T3 rotation leaves here late morning,arrives back here early afternoon.)T3 recently increased capacity from a JE32 to JE41,albeit the JE32 was transferred to the new enhanced WIC/INV route with ABZ.

BMI R tried to force T3 off the ABZ routes to EMA & NWI(10 rotations M-F at peak!!!)but failed.T3 has EMA to itself (4 rotations M-F & 1xSun)& both still do NWI,but seem to have an "agreement" not to compete as their timings do not conflict with each other.

You may think I work for T3 - I don't,honest!!!I am though an admirer for how they came on to many of these ABZ routes when others pulled off,& made themselves into a successful outfit.

Re ABZ runway,I agree Rooster! But then I never thought I'd see 24hr ops given the go ahead either.

[DC10FAN]

A Flybe service from DSA/HUY to ABZ would be great; I visit Aberdeen every year and refuse to pay the ridiculous prices that Eastern charge from HUY. The lowest is usually @£190. I would sooner drive from the Lincoln area down to LTN/LHR and fly for @£60.

[Richard Taylor]

I'm back! ;)

From May 1,Norwegian operator Wideroe to add a 3rd weekday rotation between ABZ & BGO.

Also on Suns,the daily flight to BGO to be upgraded to DHC8-400.Again wef 1/5.

WF currently also fly 2 of the 4 weekday SVG flights,sharing the duties with SAS Norwegian(ex Braathens).

[Turn It Off]

Air Wales serve LPL from ABZ. They do twice Daily CWL - LPL - ABZ - LPL - CWL.

How is this getting on at the aberdeen end?

[EK-LHR-LGW-GLA-MAN-B]

GSM will start ABZ flights in summer 2006 but they will not base any aircraft at ABZ they will operate W pattern flights from their main base at GLA, GLA-AGP-ABZ-AGP-GLA

[webby1919]

Have GSM confirmed that they will start ABZ flights next year, if so great news again - this airline goes from strength to strength. Is the ex-SAS B736's permanent?

[EK-LHR-LGW-GLA-MAN-B]

The 2 737-600 have been bought outright permanent by GSM and the 3 737-800 are on lease to GSM from 8 to 10 years. They chairman has been quoted twice now in as many weeks saying they will start ABZ in 2006 and flights to England from GLA aswell as a few new routs being announced from GLA this May and 1 new route to be announce from EDI this May also.

[Richard Taylor]

flyGlobespan:Yes Tom Dalrymple has stated that they are to offer 14 weekly flights from ABZ,starting summer 2006.They will evaluate which destinations the natives wish to fly to & what capacity to offer.Traditionally Palma has been the most popular destination for holidays offered from Aberdeen,so this may be one destination.TFS & MLA may be others.However GSM will have to be careful about how much capacity they do offer & how they market themselves up here.As Air Scotland(& others)have found out before them,if you don't advertise up here,you don't get noticed.Air Scotland,when they first launched,only got about 30 bookings for their BCN & PMI flights a few years ago.They assumed because they flew from GLA & EDI,the people of Aberdeen would know who they were.Not so & bookings only picked up after an intensive local advertising campaign.

airwales:not sure how they are doing(as I've posted elsewhere).Sometimes I hear ABZ loads are good(indeed aircraft full).Next thing,aircraft only has 12 aboard-indeed the local press,in separate news reports about undercarriage problems(thankfully came to nothing)reported only 12 people aboard on both occasions-must be the "stock" number when reporting,but the local press aren't always the most accurate when reporting ABZ!However,the morning flight (6G 610/1)has very often not operated,suggesting that sometimes the loads don't justify flying the rotation.

[Richard Taylor]

Hurrah!

Atalantic Airways arrival from Vagar,Faroe Islands(Bae146).

I thought they had quietly dropped this route,but seems just suspended during the depths of winter.

They have been operating on ABZ route for a number of years now,assume pax nos. make it worth their while.

:D

[jamesbrownontheroad]

Reykjavík has appeared in the destinations (http://www.citystarairlines.com/star_destinations.htm) section of the CityStar website, although no official announcement or launch of booking yet.

*j*

[Alberville]

Are there going to be restrictions still at ABZ even though they are now "H24"?

My understanding was that carriers will not be allowed to schedule flights out with the current opening hours, and that the 24 hours opening is purely for delayed flights?

[Oshkosh George]

There certainly are restrictions,given that the agreement was for a maximum of FOUR flights per night,but not sure if that included outbounds,but I DON'T think it was purely for delayed flights.

[Richard Taylor]

No restrictions on delayed flights.

4 flights permitted outwith the "old" restrictions but good point Oshkosh,I'm not sure either if that means inbound only,outbound only or both!

Never that simple with ABZ is it?!

:rolleyes:

BAA said(last time I noticed)that they would be ready for H24 in 6/8 weeks.

[Oshkosh George]

Richard
Do you know of any "candidates" for the 4 flights? And will these be retimed current flights,or totally new to Aberdeen flights?

[Richard Taylor]

They won't re-time any existing scheduled flights into the wee early hours.Always a possibility the odd scheduled flight may see the light of day between say 2230hrs & midnight, & at the moment I'd say that's doubtful as BA et al are happy with what they do at ABZ.

Odds on that the"magnificant 4"during the night would be holiday charters at the weekend & maybe a mixture of holiday/freight flights Mon-Thu.(Only so many ways they can split 4!!)

As for destinations,I think Spain,Spain,Spain & Spain stand a good chance if IT flights are scheduled overnight!

BAA have excitedly said(if you believe newspaper reports!!)that they have been talking to "DOZENS" of operators.Erm,I assume that means charter/tour operators rather than airlines!And I doubt if it's dozens!

Think the main benefit,as ABZ MD Andy Flower has mentioned,is that it removes the uncertainty for airlines that want to schedule maybe an evening flight to/from ABZ that their aircraft won't be stuck at Dyce overnight because the airport is shut.

That may be of more benefit than anything scheduled overnight.

[Oshkosh George]

So therefore it must mean OUTBOUNDS too,or the aircraft WOULD be stranded!

Also,do you see this as the thin edge of the wedge,i.e. A preliminary to even more night flights,or even open house H24?

[Richard Taylor]

There seems to be a big misconception among the suspicious Aberdeen public that are against the H24 opening that it is the thin end of the wedge.

However the NIMBY syndrome in Aberdeen is alive & well.The fact is that our catchment area simply would not justify an "H24 free-for-all".

ABZ may get busier during current operating hours,& maybe between 10 & 11pm but LHR we ain't!!

I think the big fear is whether helicopters will operate normal crew change flights to/from the rigs during the night.BAA have been very clear(& I haven't been a BAA fan over the years)that NO heli ops will be scheduled beyond the current hours of opening.Obviously such things as emergency flights would be permitted.

In my view,no free-for-all(although as a fan of ABZ,I'd like to see it... :E )

Should also record that BE 117 from Belfast City arrived 1410hrs,so says BAA ABZ website.

Thus marks their first "low-cost" route to ABZ & the return of the airline in its low-cost guise(post-Jersey/British European).

As with Citystar,I wish them well & a long & prosperous association with ABZ!

:ok:

[ABZlad]

Any more rumours on the runway extension?

The local press were speculating on a 1000ft (300m) add-on and quoted one of the managers as saying" if the airlines want it we will build it, it's as simple as that".

However one of my mates who works there says that the smart money is on a 50 (that's FIFTY) metre extension. That would make a mockery of the press speculation of flights to Turkey, USA etc.

[Mister Geezer]

Can't see Globespan doing that well from ABZ unless they have a very modest timetable. Maybe 3-4 flights a week max with the usual bucket and spade destinations (PMI,AGP,TFS) but 14 is ridiculous. No demand for that! Air Scotland used to do BCN and PMI from ABZ and it is interesting to note that Air Scotland did one summer at ABZ and have never returned - wonder why! They even downsized for a period with a leased Hola B737 to replace the usual B757 that they had.

Apparently the main driving froce behind the extension is Ryanair. Their 737-200s get phased out soon and the DUB route will be replaced with a 737-800 and it seems that the 800 needs just a modest extension to take a fullish load. ABZ will never have a great array of holiday flights since there is probably not that much demand!

[Richard Taylor]

Wouldn't surprise me if it is RYR-driven.

Their '800s don't have sufficient power to operate from ABZ on current runway length,especially if RYR plan any "more distant" destination from here.

737-800s have operated from here in the past of course.RYR have flown a couple of 800s on the DUB route & other operators such as FUA & BAL have quite happily operated IT flights to Spain from here,as their engines are more powerful than those on RYR's '800s.

IT suggests to me that RYR(as they have alluded to in the past)could operate more flights from here "given the right deal".Whether this INCLUDES the runway being lengthened remains to be seen.

I would agree that 14 weekly flights from flyGlobespan doesn't seem feasible,as our catchment area isn't as dense(in population terms!!)as the Central Belt around GLA/EDI.Still,if you don't try...plus traffic is growing at ABZ quite healthily at the moment(healthily for a BAA-owned airport that is!!)

Guess we'll know in the coming weeks/months/years what the future holds for ABZ,be it lo-co or otherwise.

[Khaosai]

ABZ needs a bit more than 50M to become a viable option. Remember doing a flight to Paphos back in 98 on the 757. Full load, 4hrs 30 mins flight time and having to wait for the wind to become a bit more southerly prior to departure. Ideally needs another 700M but cannot really see that happening. Rgds.

[Richard Taylor]

I say lengthen BOTH ends up as far as the existing peri roads & have displaced thresholds.

Then you could have longer run off areas at both ends for landings & a longer take off run from both ends for departures.

Mind you,probably too expensive for BAA & the council would have a hairy fit!!

I am assuming that it why some airports have displaced thresholds,or am I being stoopid?

Given that there seems to be lots of oil cargos transported abroad,wouldn't a longer runway attract more cargo flights,taking equipment abroad to other oil provinces directly?

Just as an alternative to lo-co flights if they don't arrive.

:)

ps,ASSUMING the runway is to be lengthened!