Aegean Vs Olympic Airlines

[OXOGEKAS]

HALPA (hellenic pilots association), noted a few days ago, that the CEO of AEGEAN airlines, has send a note to IKA (the Nations Insurance), saying that OLYMPIC is not paying the fees, as it should, trying to bunkrapt OA.......(there has being an agreement between IKA and OA, last year, for the payment of the fees...).
It must be noted that AEGEAN is one of the "firms" trying to buy OLYMPIC!!!(Only the "sign" of the 6 olympic circles, some aircrafts, and OA's routes)
As noted, some days ago, HALPA is opposing in this transaction, noting to the greek Government who is the owner of OA, that AEGEAN is approx. $80 millions in deficite.
AEGEAN ceo, knows that the only solution to escape from bankrupcy, is to cease the operations of OLYMPIC. He knows, that in the event OA is being sold to someone else, (and there are 5 waiting...), his days are few!
AEGEAN will cease operations asap.

[Dutchie]

I think HALPA should bite the bullet and accept that OA is technically banckrupt for the last few years... It is time for a proper airline and I think that Aegean is better suited. That the CEO complains of unfair competition of OA after all the governement help still not paying it's fees is more then resonable. In all other EU countries they would have been grounded if they did not pay the fees... :rolleyes:

[OXOGEKAS]

The "problem" for AEGEAN is that OA IS PAYING the fees....!
And the bigest problem for him, is that OA, got back last year, what was taken by AEGEAN.
OA is NOT bunkrupted. AEGEAN is in worst financial status.
HALPA is "sponsoring" the privatization procedure, (the only union of OA), knowing that the only solution, is the privatization. An airline has problem when flying with empty, or half empty aircrafts. With OA this is not a problem, because aircrafts are flying fully. And I can assure you, that many times in long-range flights,they have to up-grade pax, because flights are over-booked.
Income was feeding "black holes", instead of investing....
The broblem was with the management the last 4 years.
Former ceo, and his team, "expode" the company, in favor of its competitor(s) (see AEGEAN).
And the Attorney General, cannot charge these persons, due to one new Law (Dec 2003), which excuses all former CEO"s from miss-management........Typical greek method!!!

[Rwy in Sight]

I was trying to remain away from the debate (and the thread about A3 incidents few weeks ago) but I like to make a general statement for the greek aviation market as a consumer rather than an airline employee.

No matter if you like A3 or OAL and their or service level operations I judged the survival of both as extremely vital for the greek pax.

A couple of weeks ago I flew to CHQ on a round trip fare of 81 Euros on A3 while OA was in the region of 120. Had OAL gone under, bargain fares would no longer exist...

I hope the greek goverment (for once they take protect the greek consumer. Yes I believe that OAL like the state mobile company help make the market more consumer friendly.

Rwy in Sight

[bmibaby.com]

Is Aegean really doing that badly? I remember reading an article about them a few years back when they seemed to be standardising on the ARJ-100, just before their merger with Air Greece, and the airline seemed to be going from strength to strength. Are things really going that badly? How have Olympic managed to turn themselves around all of a sudden, and has this hampered Aegean's plans?

[tetraNG]

I was also trying to remain away from this debate,but it turned out impossible as oxogekas is so biassed against AEGEAN. It seems as he has a problem on personal bases posting always threats against them.
AEGEAN the past 2 years made a before taxes profit of 6 million Euros each.On the other hand new (??) Olympic has 100 million Euros loss through its 1 1/2 year of operation.
Now why should AEGEAN cease operation or what is the exact meaning of "asap" only the objective opinion of oxogekas should explain!

[Dutchie]

An airline has problem when flying with empty, or half empty aircrafts. With OA this is not a problem, because aircrafts are flying fully.

Sorry mate the calculation is the following:


Pax load * ticket price - cost of flying = profit or loss

So you can fly full aircraft but with low ticket prices and or high cost of flying (= OA) still loose like crazy.

Let's face it. The 2004 Olympics are over, now have the governement pull their hands off...:}

[OXOGEKAS]

tetra ng....you must study some ....economics!
The total deficite of AEGEAN, is approx. $60-80 millions.....
OA is also deficite, for approx 45 millions $.
I dont have anything against a fair competition...
I am against UNFAIR procedures, which are under the "protection" of the ceo of AEGEAN.....
Aegean had a deficite of approx 80 millions, minus the before taxes net of 6 millions, those reducing the sum down of about 6 milions!!!This is the truth.

[Dutchie]

Since when was OA able to build up this defecit since the last governement hand out or the previous one..... Or since this great NEW Olympic that left all the previous defecit in governement hands...

:mad:

[OXOGEKAS]

That is what everybody is looking for!!
The previous socialistic Greek Government, stated a law on Dec. 2003, which "disinfected" all previous ceo's , for everything they did!
As mentioned earlier, the Attorney General, could not bring them to Justice, after this law!
Some . "earned" huge amount of money, which is from aircraft leasing , aircraft sales, etc.
What everyone wants, is, one day (would it be?), those people to get emprisonment. !
This is the real story, of how hundred millions of us$ where thrown out of the window!
And this is why some got very very rich!

[tetraNG]

oxogekas...you should study reading and understaning...i said that aegean has a profit during the last two years which is true isn,t it? I don't understand what "asap" means, can you explain it? Are you the one who's making all the bomb threats to AEGEAN lately?

[OXOGEKAS]

Tetra NG.....
As far as I know, OA landed twice their 340, after bomb threads....(and they know from where these phones came from).
So stop saying bul****, about bombthreads which took place against AEGEAN!
Start some economics!
Deficite is $60-80 millions.
Having "gains", dedusts this deficite.
So, lets say, if they have profits of 5 , and the deficite is 60, then the new deficite is reduced by 5. So 60-5=55!!!Even a stupid, can understand!
I can tell you, that I am against of landing someone, after a phonecall.
I was twice landed, because a stupid guy (?) phoned to my company, saying that a bomb was ready to expode. Knowing 99% that this is not true, untill I landed, my heart was beating fast!
So please, think, before you write!
:{
ps. "asap" ...ask someone who flies AIRBUS...He will explain.
Most of us are very close friends (OA-AEGEAN pilots).
There are sons pilots in AEGEAN, and fathers inOA!
:)

[monarchpilot]

The fact that Aegean is now chalenging Olympic, is Olympic's fault in all aspects. In the UK when British Airways saw competition from the small carriers springing up, they bought them all, or they franchised them, look at BMED, GBairways, Manx, etc. This had a great effect for all those involved, management, pilots, and consumers. BA was able to get lower costs, the carriers were able to get good brand and marketing, the pilots were able to get a good professional standard.
It is my understanding that none of this happened in Greece. It is therefore Olympic's fault that Aegean blossomed and is giving them a run for their money... Olympic pilots should have helped their fellow Aegean pilots many moons ago when they needed help, in order for them to ask for help in return today.
It would be a shame to see any airline in Europe go under as that would mean more pilots on the market, but frankly I am tired of seeing EU money going to state airlines only to blow it away and then ask for help again. Between the two, I would say let Olympic go, and let Aegean private investors dig into their pockets and pay for their mistakes if they are making them and they are losing money. As for people queing to buy Olympic do not hold your breath.....
Good Luck to both, but you only have to look within to see that it is our own mistakes that bring our missfortunes and not others mistakes...

[OXOGEKAS]

MONARCHPILOT, to challenge someone, means that you have the power to do it.
Of course, AEGEAN, in the past 4-5 years, took over a big percentage of OA routes, and pax. The reason was, that the past OA ceo, AND HIS TEAM,were absolutlly CRAP! They were acting, as if they were in the payroll of AEGEAN. They gave-up routes, and the next morning AEGEAN took them!
They contracted OA's network, nearly by 50%. They were leasing planes with prices of about 50% more than normal market ! (so many got very-very rich). And this with the "greek tax payer's money" as TETRANG rightly mentioned.
Today's management, is nearly the same crap. They seem to be like "fish out of the water". And most of them, were in the "past team" of management.......!So , the ONLY SOLUTION to this, is the privatisation. Only if a "professional team" of managers, will save this company. Because, OA, has a good reputation, and many-many fans. Untill the 15th of April, we must wait, to see, WHO (if), is going to buy OA.:ok:

[Dutchie]

Because, OA, has a good reputation

What have you been drinking... I do not know of any other airline being laught at as OA...... :hmm:

[OXOGEKAS]

Dutchie
HAHAHA:p :D :O !
Very funny!
She has fans, as well as some guys like you, so we can laugh!
KMA!