CC Primary role.

[upquicker]

How do you see your role as cabin crew?

Primarily there for customer service

Or

Primarily there for the safety of the passengers.

Be honest. Considering at one stage in America there was over 13 million take of and landings without incident do you not think that the safety stuff is now secondary to the service side of things?

I worked on cruise ships and underwent extensive safety training pretty similar to the training given to cabin crew although by no means as intensive. I was a lifeboat commander and it was my role in an emergency to command a lifeboat, lower it and remove 140 pax from the ship safely. We were also subjected to twice weekly drills, inspections and regular safety refresher courses, dangerous goods training, bomb drills, hijack drills, smoke evacuations, etc etc and regular coast guard inspections where failure would mean the impounding of the ship. My primary role however was to fix the slot machines in the Casino while being nice to Americans and that is what I got paid for!

[OZcabincrew]

Hi!!!

At our airline, the primary role is quite obvious, we are there for safety, although service etc plays a huge part as we then wouldn't have an airline if it wasn't good, but that is the main reason we're there. As you have, we have day to day duties and service standards etc, but thats only because emergencies don't happen to us every duty thank goodness, so if we were there only to do what we're really there for, safety in dealing with evacuations etc, then our jobs would be pretty boring as we'd be sitting around doing nothing.

[OzzieO]

Believe me when I say we are employed primarily for safety purposes. Having experienced a crash landing I have the insight into what it was like.

Service comes second in my book and always will do. And nobody can tell me any different!

[upquicker]

Ok, so how about the guy who owns your airline? Would you say the same to him? I think you might be out of a job. And if all your workmates had the same attitude you would all be out of a job.

It's a fact that your airline wouldn't exist for long if you didn't offer good customer service. It would however exist if it had poor safety trained cabin crew. Because very few people, if any, would ever know that.

One airline in the US had a problem with people like you who didn't realise the value of the customer and so the owner of the company devised a great way of showing his staff how important customers were. On every cabin crew employee pay cheque, he had a counter signature by a random passenger who was flying on his airline. I think that's a great way of getting the message across.

I don't dispute at all that you are extremely well trained and emergency procedures are second nature to you when needed and I'm sure you can save lives with your training. As a passenger though I'm more worried about hijack than crashing. So if you were to tell me you were there primarily to pre-empt any hijack or terrorist situation then that would be different. Don't you think more emphasis should be put onto this rather than crash procedures? Things have definitely changed and with every crash, more is learnt about aircraft safety and things get better. Perhaps the people in charge of training should think about this. Also First Aid. There's a real problem that I'm sure you deal with on a regular basis. Do you have enough training in that?

[bcf&gloves]

Sorry but I really do think that you (upquicker) don't have a clue!

I see my role as primarily as safety officer first, including first aid! Then customer service secondary!
If we only need to smile and serve tea and coffee, why can't the aircraft take off without the minimum crew completment?

Next time i'm on a flight with a nervous pax, maybe i should be really nice at saying would you like a drink, but not be able to reassure them!!!!!!!

I know that everyone is entitled to there opinion but I really think that your way off the mark!

[fastjet2k]

There is no doubt at all in my mind that when I was Cabin Crew, I was there primarily for the safety of the aircraft and it's occupants. Service is very important, as has been mentioned if the service is poor then the airline will struggle. However, my initial Cabin Crew training involved 4 weeks of Safety Equipment and Procedures (SEP) and only 1 1/2 weeks of Customer Service. We were always trained the safety was our paramount concern and was the reason we were on board that aircraft.

As for first aid (av-med) training, we were trained quite comprehensively in that also being fully trained in the use of a portable defib. We did 3 days of recurrent training each year, not in Customer Service, but in SEP. As crew, you do deal with medical cases (from small cuts to life-threatening situations) on a regular basis, most common was passengers passing out.

Service comes second in my book and always will do. And nobody can tell me any different!

I couldn't agree more with you OzzieO - If you were to ask ANY passenger whether they would prefer the crew to be more highly trained in SEP or Customer Service, I know what they'd say. I always used to say that most passengers don't realise quite how much safety awareness goes into a flight, from the pre-departure security checks to the lost/unidentified baggage check at the other end. Not only is security a major factor to consider, but also things as simple as 'is it safe for me to take this coffee pot into the cabin during this light turbulence'? Put it this way, if I had a passenger ask me to compromise safety for customer service, I wouldn't and neither would any of the crew I operated with. I think that just shows how highly safety is regarded, from the crew to the company Chairman.

One airline in the US had a problem with people like you who didn't realise the value of the customer

Upquicker, you make it sound like you can't have safety as your number one priority and yet still give good customer service. What would you rather, that your gin and tonic was made perfectly or that the door was closed properly before take-off? At what point in any of these posts has anybody said that customer service isn't important? All that has been said it that safety is MORE important - you ask a question, four people who are current or former crew answer you and you then try and say they're wrong? If you already think you know the answer, why ask the question?

As for learning from previous accidents, yes things are safer in many ways than they used to be, because the industry has learnt from past mistakes. I think the people in charge of training are fairly aware of this, because Safety Standards and Standard Operating Procedures (SOPs) will always be revised if there is something learnt from a previous experience. With regards to being trained more in hijack procedures, crew are also trained comprehensively in this too, however, there is no such thing as a textbook hijacking and so the amount of training you can actually do is fairly limited.

Cabin Crew safety training goes into far greater depth than most people think, I also feel that most passengers would be fairly shocked if they were to do a Cabin Crew training course and see what actually gets taught. It is sad that the public perception is simply that crew are there to serve tea and coffee - it couldn't be further from the truth.

Safe flying y'all, FJ2k

bcf&gloves - you got there just before me with the tea and coffee comment! Couldn't agree with you more

Upquicker - that's four cabin crew now who have unanimously agreed that safety is the most important role, there is a reason for that you know. Consider your question answered. :ok:

[upquicker]

Put your toys back in the pram bcf&gloves. If you can't handle intelligent debate go and listen to some Barbara Striesand or something.

As for the reply from fastjet2k, that's a great answer. Unfortunately, public perception is that all you do is serve tea and coffee, whether you like it or not. The fact that you are extensively trained in first aid is a welcoming thought and that your training is constantly changed to reflect new situations is also good.

One of you said that four cabin crew had now replied with the same answer and I should now consider it answered. Well what about the other hundred that read it and said nothing?

All my original point was, was to say that your training seems to me to be nearly all crash stuff when very few planes ever crash and that in fact you spend a lot of time on customer service. There has been more train crashes in the last few years than planes. When was the last plane crash on an aircraft out of the UK? Of course it is also in the interests of your employers to instil an importance in your work, so they can pay you crap money.

Don't tarnish me with the old 'He's never been one so he's not got a clue' brush. You try evacuating 2500 fat Americans from a listing ship in high seas with a fire on board that can't be put out. (No I didn't but neither did most of you evacuate a plane in an emergency, but I, like you was trained to do it)

So if you are there primarily for the safety of the plane, how can you say this when 13 million flights took off and landed in the US without incident. Think about that - that's 13 Million!

Could it be because of your role? Not one of you has said that flying is so safe because of your role and that part of your job is preventing incidents, That would be more like it. I could see the benefit in your safety role if you were largely there to prevent accidents.

[OzzieO]

upquicker interesting post. Please don't get me wrong I understand my role onboard the aircraft. I also understand I work in a customer service environment and I always try and give 100% in terms of customer service.

But what I won't allow is anyone to think I am there to be used as some sort of skivvy.

I like my job it has given me a great standard of living. And like I said I have been in the unfortuante position of seeing the consequences of when things go wrong and I have to put into practise what I have been trained for.

Oh dear upquicker was that B Streisand comment really necessary?

Think I will now withdraw from this conversation I can see it degenerating into childish banter.

[fastjet2k]

While I fully respect your right to your opinion, I disagree entirely. It is of course possible that the reason these 13 million flights had no incidents is because there were Cabin Crew present to prevent the incident happening in the first place. It's not all about fixing a problem when it happens, the main focus is on ensuring things are done properly to ensure nothing goes wrong that requires fixing.

I was Cabin Crew for a UK airline for two years - in that time I had one emergency landing, one near evacuation due to a security alert, severe turbulence, numerous medical incidents and, of course, the daily safety duties. Every single duty I did involved me using a large amount of the training I was given when I first started flying. That training isn't all about what to do in a crash, a lot of it focussed on how to handle a variety of other scenario's that will be likely to happen more regularly. If we refuelled the aircraft with passengers on board, we had certain criteria that had to be applied. This wasn't to make the passengers more comfortable, it was to make them safe. If I insisted that a passenger put a bag into the overhead locker, it wasn't to make them comfortable, it was to make them SAFE. At least twice on every sector, the passenger doors will be operated, they will be armed and disarmed, the cabin will be secured for takeoff/landing, security checks will be carried out, flight deck access is monitored etc. etc. This is all for safety, while it doesn't fix a problem, it prevents a problem from arising. If it's not done properly then a problem may very well arise making the flight UNSAFE.

You will find that every airline will adapt it's customer service standards and policies around the requirements of safety. It's not the other way round and it never will be. With regards to the number of train crashes compared to the number of plane crashes - that's a completely irelevant comparison. I don't know much about the rail industry but that tells me that they need to prioritise safety more than they do now. Like the aviation industry and like the Cabin Crew that operate on the aircraft.

As was mentioned earlier, if you had ONE passenger on an A320, you would still have four cabin crew as you require that number to operate exits. No airline would provide four cabin crew for one passenger if they were only there for customer service which further highlights my point that that is not their primary function. I appreciate that your training on a ship may lead you to believe that customer service is the primary role, but I would imagine that you would have been part of a very large team of people on that ship, some of whom would have been there primarily for safety. Forgive me if I'm wrong, I'd be the first to say I don't know anything about operating as crew on a ship.

On an A320, you often have just four cabin crew to make sure safety standards are adhered to. You can't miss something, thinking it's ok because somebody else will do it - it's a very small team on these aircraft and everybody takes their jobs very seriously. If I see one member of cabin crew on this forum who says that Customer Service is more important, I will be truly shocked. You have said already that most people perceive Cabin Crew to be there just for customer service - that's fine, but if somebody does think that I will be happy to educate them! I will not have anybody thinking that crew are just waiters/waitresses in the sky. Believe me, if crew behaved in the way that the public perceive them, safety would soon be at the front of every passengers mind as it would now be compromised. They would then be wondering why the crew weren't focussing on the safety aspects.

It just proves the point that perception isn't necessarily true. This is, of course, just a humble opinion.

FJ2k

[flapsforty]

One airline in the US had a problem with people like youupquicker, do you consider it "intelligent debate" to make an unfavourable and personal comment about someone whom you have never met solely on the basis of a few lines written?
I consider your tactic provocative, juvenile and and ill mannered. Also, people in glass houses etc etc. My spelling and grammar leave a lot to be desired, but I have the excuse of not being a native English speaker. What's yours?
Your posts seem designed to stir sh!t rather than initiate the intelligent debate you profess aspiring to.

Your question is interesting though. I see my role as that of a juggler. I try to achieve the optimum balance between safety and service while continually under severe time pressure and slightly understaffed.
Both aspects are important but not equally obvious, and we would severely fail our pax if we neglected either role.
When you say Be honest. Considering at one stage in America there was over 13 million take of and landings without incident do you not think that the safety stuff is now secondary to the service side of things? you are either talking without a clue about the subject matter at hand, or are trying to start a flame war. As we say in my language "your argument falters on it's own absurdity".

If I have provided to our paying guests less than the optimum service possible taking into account the means at my disposal, I have failed as an FA.
If I have not managed to check that all my FAs know their SEPs, if I have not made sure they have done their checklists, door drills and security checks before the pax board, if I have not established a good working relationship with the pilots in the 2 minute sfaety chat between the Captain and myself, if I have not managed to make at least 75% of the pax pay attention to the safety briefing, if I have not eyeballed each and every boarding pax and have not managed to make the correct spilt second decisions about who is a potential danger to the safety of the pax and the airframe, if I have not checked that the cabin is secure for take-off and later landing etc etc etc ..................... then I will have failed as well.

Safety and service are what we are about. They are intertwined and indivisible. To try and rank either one as more important than the other seems to me entirely meaningless.

[str]

Safety First, Service Second

[OZcabincrew]

Upquicker!

I don't know about the pay in the UK, but down here, we get paid extremely well for what we do. Our job, as said is juggler. Of course customer service is a huge part of the job as otherwise we wouldn't have a job because of no passengers, however the main underlying role of us being there is for safety. Just don't presume that all we do (in Australia) every six months is learn how to cope in a crash, we do train in hi-jacking, security self defence etc and the list goes on. Step onboard one of my flight's or my colleagues, and i'd like to see you try and hi-jack the aircraft! You need to be in the job before you criticise our training, plus every airline is different. As you said, the perception of our job is all we do is pour tea and coffee and you're correct in the sense that that is something that's part of our "everyday duties", and thank god, because i wouldn't want to evacuate an aircraft everyday or prevent a hi-jacking etc. Same as you, people would just look at you and think, what a boring job fixing slot machines (dealing with American's is no big deal, thats something all of us do nearly every day!)

For the public that think all we do is pour tea and coffee, i would like to put them through 5 weeks of our training and see how they fare?

Upquicker, i think you do have a bit of an idea about what you're saying, only a little bit though. You've said for us not too tar you with the same brush, the same goes for you, we're not all the same, there are a lot of us which do realise the importance of customer service and show this every day we go to work, but there is the odd few who don't and they need to leave.

There's an old saying, "think before you speak"

Oz

[disappointed]

I see my role as primarily safety, however I know that 99% of customers will never see that. But it only takes one incident for people to change their mind.

Ask Tim Lancaster.


We may spend most of our time serving chicken or beef or selling duty free items but don't overlook the fact that it is cabin crew who alert their flight crew colleagues to engine vibration or smoke, who check out toilet smoke alarms and who restrain the dangerous passenger.

And if anyone wants to argue that these things rarely happen, I will do my best to get my hands on the figures, I am certain you would be very suprised.

[k-lo]

Upquicker,

perhaps the fact that you see CC primarily as waitresess shows shows how good they are at their job.
I was on a flight once where there was a fire in the galley, and I only knew about it because I was sitting in a position that allowed me to see. The incident was handled efficiently, quietly and without fuss, and the 200 pax behind me had absolutely no clue as to what had just happened.

Why don't you give them the credit they deserve?

[fastjet2k]

Excellent comment k-lo. People say that the job as Cabin Crew is unskilled, however most people probably couldn't pass a crew course. Unless you have done it, you don't actually know what it really involves, I remember being amazed myself when I first started.

At the end of the day, it's the crew that will be doing their best to utilise all their SKILLS to save everybody's bacon should the metaphorical crap hit the fan. The passengers won't be thinking they are there for tea and coffee then.

Cabin Crew deserve respect - god, if my aircraft should ever be hijacked I'll be sealed in a nice little flight deck... it will be the Cabin Crew that deal with it, I and my Captain will be relying on them. I've been there as cabin crew and I will take everything I learnt with me into the flight deck, it taught me a lot. I just wish that some people were so willing to be educated.

Safe flying everybody...

[bcf&gloves]

OK so I was a little quick of the mark with my first post, and I apologise, but I really do get annoyed when people on see us as waiters/ess in the sky.

As for Miss Striesand............. Not my cup of tea!