Come on Guys n Gals...help me out here!

[naughtybutnice6792]

I appreciate that people are going to have different views on this subject matter, but I'm about to embark upon my CPL/MEP and IR and want to know how important people think getting multi hours are? (i.e: doing a mulit CPL)

Money doesn't grow on trees where I come from (tell me a place that it does!!), but I'm willing to spend that bit extra on the Multi CPL (as opposed to a single engine CPL) if it will help me out in the long run.

Any comments would be gratefully received! :ok:

[Malcolm G O Payne]

I am sorry to say that a single-engine CPL will be of very little use if you wish to progess your career. If you just want to do instructing, glider towing or other such activities then a SE licence will do.

[Seaweed Knees]

as far as time building goes, you can build cheap multi time at www.universalairacademy.com in El Monte California.

Its $130 an hour wet, and the a/c is in vgc.

You can convert JAA to FAA by filling out paperwork and so long as you have 10 hours multi, P1 or Put you can take the plane solo.

[flighttime2.0]

Quote : Im sorry to say that a single engine cpl will be very little use if you wish to progress your career !!!!

What a load of rubbish . It makes no difference at all if your cpl is in a single or a twin , some guys do their cpl in the twin so they can get the twin rating at the same time as the cpl and save a little money at the same time .

The only thing employers are interested in is that you have a multi IR ( instrument rating ) a single is not of much use to you .

Flighttime

[Malcolm G O Payne]

I would like to mention that my answer was given in the light of nearly 50 years experience, including 5500 hours instructing and a few posts as Chief Pilot of air taxi companies. This culmnated with twelve years on staff at OATS. The original question regarded the viability of a single engine CPL. I agree that a ME IR is an essential.

[flighttime2.0]

Malcolm

I have a single engine cpl with a twin rating on top of that so could you please explain the differance . I know of at least 10 guys who have landed airline jobs in the last year with the very same licence and ratings as myself .

Single engine cpl
twin rating
Multi Ir

I respect your experience but dont try tell me that thats not the same road 90% of trainee pilots go down today !flightime

[Seaweed Knees]

There have obviously been some misunderstandings.

I think malcolm is suggesting that the job opportunities are limited if you dont eventually upgrade to an ME CPL.


I think you'll find that the ME is an add on to your CPL.

So really you have:

Commercial pilots licence: Single and Multi engine with Instrument rating.

Let me be the first to congratulate you on your ME CPL!!

[orangesky]

unfortunately, where i live, money also doesnt grow on trees ...... :ouch:

i'd just like to clarify a few things on this thread. firstly the ME is not an "add on" to your CPL, the ME is a class rating, the CPL is a professional licence. the two are different and mutually exclusive. ie. to have a CPL one doesnt need to have a ME.

now, in my opinion (admittedly, i have not been a chief pilot for any charter operation) there is very little to gain from doing a ME/CPL, ie. doing your CPL skills test in a multi engined aircraft - there are some elements you dont need to do, like PFL's, but by doing it on a multi engined aircraft there are additional elements one does have to do. the cost saving, in the grand scheme of things is negligable. you will however be doing your IR in a multi engined aircraft, so at the end of all the training, you will have a CPL, ME, IR, this is the bare minimum you will need (along with an MCC) to start sending CV's off to prospective employers. once your CV lands on the right desk, and they have a look at it, whether you have 25hrs ME or 40hrs ME, it doesnt make a difference to them ...... if you have 250hrs ME - thats a different story. obviously you wont get those while doing your training, and you certainly wouldnt want to pay for them in this country !

so, coming back to your original question, i would suggest doing your CPL on a single, doing the ME rating just before starting the ME portion of your IR, presuming your IR consists of 30hrs SE and 20hrs ME.

good luck with which ever option you decide on, its a lot of hard working but rewarding .... and did i mention a real strain on the bank balance :\ :\

[silverknapper]

Cost saving as has been said already will be neglibile either way. Some say single easier as it is slower. But some complex singles are faster than some twins.
The main difference is the PFL vs asymmetric circuits. I did mine in the single, and found a precise PFL took a bit of time to perfect. And when I tested I was worried about it. By comparison on my multi rating I found asymmetric stuff easy.
Another thing to consider may be that any extra hours you use, be it before test, or (hopefully not) after a partial will be much much cheaper in a single - usually more than half price.

[BroomstickPilot]

Naughtybutnice6792

Before you commit yourself to CPL (rather than ATPL), see my post in response to a thread called CPL / ATPL commenced by Grob Driver on 1st March.

Good Luck!

Broomstick

[machonepointone]

Naughtybutnice6792

The recent submissions have had a lot of truth in them, but there is still a lot that perhaps has not been said (and I do not mean that to disparage any of the contributors). As one of them said, the cost difference is pretty negligible, assuming of course a first time pass at the CPL. Clearly any retraining and testing will be cheaper on a single than on a twin, but you may wish to consider the following:-

1. Assuming a first time pass, having qualified for the CPL you will now have to do a six hour ME course plus a flight test of about an hour. This is in addition to the hours needed on the IR course. That basically is where the majority of any savings you may have made by doing it on a single will go.

2. I don’t want to get into the PFL v Asymmetric argument in the context of the CPL Skill Test. What you may wish to bear in mind, however, is that, provided you do all your training at the same FTO, you will already be pretty familiar with their twin by the time you start your IR training. I appreciate that you would have about seven hours of twin time from the Class Rating course, but that is only about half, if that, of the twin experience you would have by doing the CPL on a twin.

3. The IR course is 50 hours, but it does not have to be all done in an aeroplane. Depending on the FTO a large proportion of your training can be done in an FNPT2. In the case of the place you visited on the 8th, 34 out of the 50 hours are done in the simulator.

Whichever course you take (no pun intended), the best thing that you can do is to ensure that all your flying skills and techniques are up to scratch. For example, track crawling on the navigation is a fail point, and a poor instrument scan is unlikely to impress the examiner (actually it will, but not in the way you would like). Complex single or twin, you will be spending time just getting familiar with a new aircraft type, so if at all possible you want to be able to concentrate on that and not having to re-learn how to fly accurately.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

M1.1

[GusHoneybun]

How many multi hours you get in independent on whatever route you choose.

For example,
Scenario A) SE CPL, MEP then IR.
25 hours SEP CPL training
6 hours MEP training + test (1hr)
15 hours multi IR + test (2hrs)

Gives 24 hours TT multi.


Scenario B) ME CPL then IR
22 hours SEP CPL training
6 hours CPL training + test (2hrs)
15 hours multi IR + test (2 hours)

Give 25 hours TT multi

All the above assumes minimum hours blah blah blah. There are benefits to doing a multi CPL.
First, there is also a financial saving as follows. You SEP instruction is reduced by 3 hours, saving about £500.
There is no difference in the cost of hiring for test whichever route you go. Take the cost of a twin hire for a CPL test is around £600, contrast that to the hire for a MEP (£300) and SEP for CPL test (£350). Not a lot in it.
Second, you will save is the £100 to the CAA for adding the MEP to your licence, which they gratefully do for free in your CPL was performed in a MEP.


However where you will lose out is if you do not pass first time, in minimum hours as the subsequent cost of hire and re-training will soon eat into the savings listed above. Remember that it is quite a step from a simple SEP to a complex MEP, with only 6 hours to get it all ready for a CPL test.

Good luck whatever way you go. Oh, and I have yet to meet any employer who gives a rats derriere about what you did you CPL in.