Flyjet Cancellation (Merged) [Archive]

egnxema

15th Mar 2005, 12:14

Just had a text from a collegue in ACC who should be on FJE091 ACC-LGW today.

The flight has been cancelled. He very brief text message states "airline financial probs".

Is it Ghana Travel with the problems, or FlyJet?:(

ADDITION:

I have just spoken to Ghana Travel - and they say that despite the rumours, the cancellation of Saturday\'s flights was not due to financial difficulties, and they are still trying to get the affected pax back, and they are sorry that today\'s flight has been cancelled too.

The agent said their MD has flown to Ghana to try and help sort things out.

:eek:

Hope all can be sorted soon.

aeulad

15th Mar 2005, 14:14

The financial troubles lies with Ghana Travel, not with Astraeus or FLYJET.

Regards

Mike

gatwicknose

15th Mar 2005, 14:59

Can confirm what mike says.....pax advised to contact Ghana Travel and /or the CAA.....

egnxema

16th Mar 2005, 07:12

It all seems to be descending into a sorry mess for the 200+ pax still stuck at ACC.

I eventually spoke to my collegue out there yesterday afternoon and he said they were given USD100 on Saturday when the first flight was cancelled. They have had nothing since, many of them sleeping on the floor at the Terminal. They have be asked daily to be at the airport in the morning to check-in again, and repeated they are let down.

I rang Ghana Travel, requesting how I could get hold of my collegue and the office in Barnsley said "we don't know where the passengers are." I sarcasticly asked "You mean you have misplaced a plane load of your passengers?" and she said "We are still trying to find out where they are, ring back in an hour as the plane may have taken off by then."

A quick call to Flyjet confirmed that their aircraft wasn't in ACC and therefore there was no way the "missing" pax might be on their way home in an hour.

Ghana Travel, although having an ATOL bonding, do seem to have some unusual trading practices. They do not accept any plastic for payment over their website or over the phone - you are asked to pay directly into their bank account via a local bank branch.

My collegue reported that the tension and frustration amoung pax in ACC is rising, especially as some of them call their boss to explain again that they have no idea when they will be returning.

:sad:

gatwicknose

16th Mar 2005, 08:49

sorry situation indeed....gather that there is no solution on the horizon and that ghana travel far from being able to solve the problem, are unable to meet their obligation in any way. Its nothing short of criminal.....on the way to Gatwicm this morning I saw several hapless passengers walking with their bags thumbing a lift to who knows where?
This route is entremely profitable and potentially successful.

I only hope that flyjet can shake off the spectre of Ghana Travel and re-instate the route as soon as possible to prove that they are not at fault here. The blame for all of this mess lies firmly with Ghana Travel!

Captain Lampshade

16th Mar 2005, 10:15

Gatwick Nose ' I only hope Flyjet can shake off the spectre'

It is always a sad time when instances like this occur, however, lets not confuse the facts here. Flyjet, Astraeus etc. are Charter Carriers as such they contract all or part of their capacity to tour operators.
Should a particular tour operator fall upon hard times (and lets face it, in todays environment its hard for everyone ) it should not reflect in anyway on the Carrier !. its simple no money no flight.
Yes passengers maybe severely affected / inconvenienced however, the last time I looked charter airlines were not registered charities.

gatwicknose

16th Mar 2005, 10:39

Totally agree Captain......

But on this occcasion there is an element of "guilty by association " and flyjet have quite correctly taken steps to distance themselves from the cause of this issue. Afterall it was flyjet who faced that passengers yesterday afternoon while Ghana Travel ran and hid!

Desk Driver

16th Mar 2005, 12:21

all the Flyjet flights were pretty full. Suspect sticky palms are the cause...

Believe me Full flights can still loose money!!:ugh:

Chidken Sangwich

16th Mar 2005, 17:21

I have asked this before and will ask this again...

HOW can a company that is only CAA bonded for a total of 530 seats for the quarter ending Mar 05 be chartering 2 B757 loads of passengers as week?

Two flights effectively wipes out their bond for the three months trading, I was under the impression that FJE were doing 2 flights a week for them?.

This needs looking at as the CAA are clearly not enforcing the ATOL regulations.

It will be interesting to see if the CAA stump up to get the pax home...:confused:

aeulad

16th Mar 2005, 19:32

AEU no longer flying for Ghana Travel

Regards

Mike

gatwicknose

17th Mar 2005, 06:28

So if two carriers are no longer flying for Ghana Travel whats next..as of yesterday a chap called "James" informed me that all matters had been resolved and that Flyjet would be operating normally on friday........I am pretty sure that there will be 190+ people at zone B today for the AEU and 210 tomorrow for the FJE, both flghts having been fully sold....

In this kind of situation without strict enforcement by the CAA the tour operator is allowed to continue to put the carriers in the frame in order to cover for their own mistakes. I hope that things are resolved in time to stop more checkin riots in the next two days....but I doubt it!

Fokker-off

17th Mar 2005, 11:49

AEULAD

Looking at AEU's site....they are still advising they fly to ACCRA and name Ghana Travel for flights ??

Chidken Sangwich

17th Mar 2005, 12:20

gatwicknose...

It is ALSO the responsibility of the operating Airlines to check that the CAA bond is sufficient before agreeing to carry pax, therefore the so called 'riots at check-in' are partly their own making...

gatwicknose

17th Mar 2005, 12:27

As I suspected there are over 100 people at check in this morning who are slowly departing with no real prospect of flying to Accra today.

On the subject of the bond, I fully agree that airlines should check all bonding arrangements. However in this case the misinformation is coming from the tour operator and not the respective carriers. When a tour operator blatantly tells pax to turn up at the airport in the full knowledge that there is no flight, what can the carrier do?

RUMAD

17th Mar 2005, 22:08

I currently work for Flyjet.......and has far as we know all flights to ACC have been suspended until further notice....Ghana travel is in alot of debt to Flyjet.....and as far as we know ceased trading and probably wont start again either!.....whether Flyjet operate the flights for themselves in the furture...nobody knows.....fingers crossed they will.

gatwicknose

18th Mar 2005, 05:52

Ghana travel are now tryingnto accom all their pax on Afyquiah via TIP....last gasp stuff....however would expect FJE to receive a call this morning asking them to operate a flight to ACC....the cheque's in the post!

Flightrider

18th Mar 2005, 06:37

Just in response to the earlier question, understand that both Ghana Travel and their competitors are also bonded for sales made in Ghana. The ATOL bond with the UK CAA only needs to cover sales made to UK customers. If they are selling in other countries (e.g. Ghana, or to US customers connecting into Gatwick etc) then these do not need to be covered by their UK ATOL. This may (or equally may not!) explain how their UK ATOL bonded capacity is so low in relation to the capacity of the flights being chartered.

Harrier46

18th Mar 2005, 19:52

The CAA have been well aware for some time that Ghana Travel has increased it's passenger numbers from what is showing as bonded on the CAA website. I know this because I personally checked on the discrepancy several months ago. I was told (by e-mail from the CAA) that if I was travelling with Ghana Travel I should not be concerned by the numbers as they had applied for a variation. The question is was this variation ever granted and if not then why have they been allowed to continue trading? I cannot believe the CAA would let this pass knowing how difficult they make the ATOL process for everybody else.

Flying Fiona

18th Mar 2005, 20:42

I have a good friend at Flyjet and he thinks that all will be ok. Yes Ghana travel has gone to the dogs but Flyjet still has other contracts. Good luck to you all.

Flightrider

18th Mar 2005, 20:49

Ghana Travel is apparently still trading. It is surprising that its ATOL remains in place after everything that has happened.

Have the people with whom FlyJet have a new contract actually got any money? I hear not....wait with interest to see what happens.

jur99llk

20th Mar 2005, 13:33

last friday early in the morning (two days ago) a flyjet plane LGW-TFS-LGW took off, but a few minutes later it had to land again in LGW. "Technical problems" the captain said.
Ingeniers tried to repair the a/c on the ground but being unable to achive it, and unable to find a new flyjet a/c to operate that route, they had to sub-charter the flight with TCX.
So, pax could finaly reach TFS after a 12hours delay.... more than fed up of seeing the airport!!!

How many a/c do Flyjet have!!?? not many, i guess, if they had to subcharter it with TCX.

gatwicknose

23rd Mar 2005, 13:24

Former employee of Ghana Travel has just stated that they have shut up shop and that the owner has been declared bankrupt...does anyone know if this is true?

TimS

23rd Mar 2005, 14:32

Thsi is the latest from Ghanaweb.com ......

The Ghana Tourist Board has directed GH Travels, operators of Fly-jet charter flights to stop selling tickets to prospective travelers until further notice.

GH Travels operates chatter flights to London Gatwick airport.

However for the past few weeks, its passengers have been stranded both in Ghana and at Gatwick Airport.

This is as a result of the inability of GH Travels to secure an aircraft for their flights.

Speaking to Joy News the Deputy Chief Executive in charge of operations at the Tourist Board, Edwin Owusu-Mensah said the board has asked GH Travels to make alternative arrangements to airlift the stranded passengers.

Mr. Owusu-Mensah said the directive would hold until GH Travels resolves the disagreement with their carrier, Flyjet.

“The board has actually asked Flyjet to suspend the sale of any fresh tickets until this backlog is cleared, we are still in the process of investigating everything, in order not to create any more problem because of they continue selling more tickets, while the issue had not been resolved there would still be stranded passengers.” He said.

Last week over 200 of Flyjet passengers were stranded at the Gatwick Airport and about eighty people are still stranded in Ghana at the moment.

san diego

24th Mar 2005, 17:17

The CAA website reports this afternoon that Ghana Travel of Barnsley have ceased trading and there will be no more flights operating out of the UK. It appears they had an ATOL Bond of £320,000 which suggests there will at least be enough money to repatriate those currently in Ghana, whether it will be enough to repay those with future bookings without going into the Air Travel Trust remains to be seen

ConcernedGH

26th Mar 2005, 05:50

Whilst rumours about sticky fingers in Ghana may be the cause of Ghana Travel demise this must have been known by Flyjet who have had their captains transfer large quantities of $ cash out of the country in carrier bags.

Not exactly saintly behaviour!

And what about the Ghanaian Government - I bet they never knew or gave authority for this type of 'export'?

Ghana Travel went bust on Wednesday but insiders say that Flyjet had a hand in the demise.

Rumours are that investors known to Flyjet were offering to inject £800k into the business and put in their own people to turn it around. Both sides were asked to wait over the weekend (4 days) for them to review the details.

Flyjet pulled the flights that night....even though money was on the table!

This is not the sign of people wanting to look after passengers or the industry, so who are they looking after?

ConcernedGH

26th Mar 2005, 07:03

Given that flights to ACCRA were such a large part of the Flyjet schedule how will they fill the gap?

Looking at some of the bad press reports of people who have flown with flyjet can they overcome the stigma of being responsible for the Ghana Travel demise?

And what about their financial management. With the experience and knowledge they have how could they have allowed such a debt to build up. What other problems are they hiding beneath the surface?????

Will Flyjets backers allow them the chance to survive when they did not allow that opportunity to their main customer????

Maybe it's time to jump carriers?

Call Established

26th Mar 2005, 08:20

I hope this isnt another

"lets knock this airline and hope it goes to wall thread"

Please do let it turn into another doom and gloom one!

hoey5o

26th Mar 2005, 08:24

What has the financial viability of Ghana Travel got to do with Flyjet !!

Why dont you include Astraeus in your little rant ?

Ghana Travel employed flyJet and when flyjet (and Astraeus) stopped getting paid they stopped working for them. This is because they are not registered charities.

Flyjet is chartered by all sorts of companies, are you suggesting that by working for a company you then have a responsibilty to keep them afloat ?
If thats the case Monarch/Brittania/First choice/Mytravel or any other charter airline would NEVER except any work from anyone !

FlyJet is inundated with work

GrahamK

26th Mar 2005, 08:40

with flyjet can they overcome the stigma of being responsible for the Ghana Travel demise?

Dear me and I thought Ghana Travel were responsible for their own demise?

Harrier46

26th Mar 2005, 16:35

I would have been very surprised if Flyjet had continued flying without payment. Promises of payment are no substitute for actual payment and Flyjet have to pay their bills. No payment, no flights, just as it has always been. And it is unlikely any investors would put up such money in four days without looking very closely at the books. These things take time.

gatwicknose

26th Mar 2005, 18:11

This whole scenario is pretty typical of african operations, its niaive to imagine that it could be done in any other way. Flyjet did all they could to facilitate this operation...but do the sums..

with 200 pax per flight the take for each rotation was over 80,000...multiply that by the number of flights and also the number of weeks that money was taken in advance...the sum is quite enough to divert at least some of those funds into a void.

TimS

27th Mar 2005, 14:12

and the latest (final?) episode via www.ghanaweb.com ....

Ghana Travel Ltd has finally yielded to pressure from passengers and the ICCIA, the consumer protection group and ceased trading. The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) of UK has called in the £320,000 Pounds Sterling ATOL Bond. All Ghana Travel customers with urgent queries shall be receiving a refund soon.

The Centre for the Study of Tourism and Hospitality Firms (CESTHOF), a division of the International Centre for Consumer Issues and Advocacy (ICCIA), have been investigating Ghana Travels Ltd and the Flyjet Charter Service. Finally, officials of the Ghana Tourist Board have given themselves away after a team of Executives from ICCIA and TV3 crew stormed their offices.

The “seat only” travel organiser has ceased operations as a charter service contractor and the CAA (UK) issued an advice yesterday March 25 to all customers that have not been able to travel to claim their refund. The CAA has called in their ATOL bond of £320,000 Pounds Sterling that protects consumers against unnecessary losses when a tour operator goes out of business.

The Ghana Tourist Board has got questions to answer to Ghanaians and the general public. Was any due diligence procedures undertaken and by whom? Who carried out the due diligence procedures? Did the GTB know that Flyjet is notorious for flight delays and cancellations in the UK since they started operations in June 2003 and has been ranked among the worst performers on the website www.flightontime.info?

The ICCIA is also calling for the review of procedures for granting Charter Flight operational licences to tour operators. Consumers need to know where to go and what to do when an operator in the likes of Ghana Travel Ltd is at large and their offices are shut.

When contacted yesterday the 24th of March 2005 at about 1400hrs, the Public Relations Manager of GTB claimed they were busily preparing for an important meeting today Good Friday, a public holiday.

Michael Opare-Danso Esq., Executive Director of ICCIA, is advising all consumers to buy travel insurance whenever they purchase a travel package as a security against foreseeable and unforeseeable occurrences in the future.

Contacts: Chris, (Manager, Ghana Travel Ltd ): 0244 711 980 ICCIA : 0244 267 914, 0244 616 897, 0244 519 785

DELTABOY

27th Mar 2005, 21:58

jurr99, to answer your question I understand that Flyjet operate with 2 x B757's, with a third & possibly forth on the way for this summer season. They also have long haul flights planned to Mexico & North America so rumour has it.
Hope it works out for them:cool:

TJ747

27th Mar 2005, 23:02

I certainly hope so too DeltaBoy,

I have a few good friends who work for FlyJet and they do love it there too.

With only 2 aircraft in the fleet, when problems arise, it is difficult to sometimes get things back on track,but i suppose every company started like this in the beginning, so it is only a matter of time before things change for the better (fleet wise).

They are a very friendly and professional crew and are allways up for a laugh.

keep it up FlyJet, i like your way of thinking and think everyone there does an outstanding job given the difficult situations you are put in sometimes. You all muck in and help and its nice to see such a friendly, down to earth airline who just get on with it and do what they can.

Cheers

TJ747

ConcernedGH

28th Mar 2005, 05:59

Ghana Travel Ltd fell due to their own managment problems and I totally agree that this should not be used as an excuse to hit out at others.

But lets not get side-tracked by Astreus, as they correctly refused to fly without being paid. The question should be why did Flyjet continue to fly for so long when they did not get paid?

Given the many years experience of the Directors and the fact that THEY ALLOWED such a large debt to build up on one of their main contracts then what is position on their many other contracts?

Flyjet are late filing their accounts with companies house and this has got to raise the question why?

What have they got to hide?

The problems on the Ghaa Travel contracts could just be a symptom of a much large problem within Flyjet rather but without any information how do we know?

Anyone have any details?????

FOXIBOY

28th Mar 2005, 07:38

So ghana travels director does a runner with the money and thats FLYJETS fault mmmm , FLYJET has many other contracts i guess, and do you really think they wont get that money back, something tells me they will do everything in their power to get it back with interest, at the end of the day Ghana travel had the money to pay they just did a runner with it.

FormerFlyer

28th Mar 2005, 07:48

I think the whole sorry episode is quite well covered here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=166711)

cheers ;)
FF

vlmboy

28th Mar 2005, 08:18

Don't you think its time to move on now. Im sure Flyjet have learnt a very strong lesson in dealing with African tour operators.
Summer is upon us, and the gap in the programme created by the demise of Ghana Travel will be quickly filled by the European holiday routes without the hassles of operating to a third world country.... maybe it was a blessing in disguise.

Bamboid

29th Mar 2005, 09:58

Okay ConcernedGH, I see that you registered on the 26th March, the date you started this thread - can't be a coincidence methinks. Do you work for Flyjet? Are you considering working for Flyjet perhaps?

Either way, this is such an obvious phishing expedition that I suspect informed responses from within the company might be a bit thin on the ground until you reveal a little more of your agenda.

Nato 35

29th Mar 2005, 15:38

Who said they continued to fly without getting paid. In fact who said they did not get paid in advance!!!!!!. Whatever people think about Flyjet they are no fools.:cool:

ConcernedGH

30th Mar 2005, 04:46

Flyjet is notorious for flight delays and cancellations in the UK since they started operations in June 2003 and has been ranked among the worst performers on the website www.flightontime.info?

We will see what the insolvency guys find out but rumours have it that Flyjet are owed approx £750k, which by my maths equates to nearly 6 weeks of flights. That's a hell of a long time to keep flying without payment!

As one of the small creditors who have now lost all chance of being paid I am unhappy that any chance of saving the company (i.e. getting paid) has been lost.

My gripe is that Flyjeyt could have / should have acted sooner to save both creditors and customers alike from losing out. They knew what was happening and shold have acted sooner.

If Flyjet are no fools (which I totally agree with) then what was their plans and expectations given how long they kept flying without getting paid?

If they did not want the money then what were they after, the company?

Something is not right here but no-one knows other than Flyjet. Why have the suddenly become so quiet given?

Nato 35

30th Mar 2005, 07:34

I am not at all sure why you started this post. You have gone from being concerned abuot how Flyjet were going to continue to giving them a good kicking because of late deparures. Apart from what seems to be a general hate of the company I cannot see where this is all leading. As far as I know the company made a profit in its first year, which by any standards is amazing because of the large initial investment that is needed. So I presume with all the extra work they have taken on then their backers will be very happy. I doubt that a company that watches money so closely would have allowed 750k of debt, not any of the smaller charters would have allowed that. So if your theme is just "lets give Flyjet a slap" then at least have the good grace to come out and say it.:cool:

BOH

30th Mar 2005, 10:51

Quote Nato 35

____________

"if your theme is just "lets give Flyjet a slap" then at least have the good grace to come out and say it."
____________

OK :p hehe

Flew Flyjet October 2003! 3 hour delay, aircraft interior was in bad quality, flight attendants rude!

After my brother was attacked in Greece we ended up flying back with a QUALITY carrier, as far as quality goes in the world of charter!hehe!

Sorry, but i got it off my chest :P

BOH ;)

Bamboid

30th Mar 2005, 20:44

So Concerned GH, you are a 'small creditor' - to whom are you a creditor? You also claim to have lost 'all chance of being paid' and 'any chance of saving the company' - who are you expecting to be paid by and which company are you hoping to save?

Flyjet did some work for Ghana Travel (granted), Ghana Travel are no longer trading ...... Flyjet are. If your beef is with Ghana Travel, then why introduce (and slag off) a third party?

Nato 35

30th Mar 2005, 21:40

I think I can smell one, and its not me or you bamboid.:cool:

ConcernedGH

30th Mar 2005, 23:28

My issues have been and are regards the management controls in place at Flyjet and whether they are working given that:
1) Flyjet allowed Ghana Travel Ltd to build up a large debt, the true value of which will come out in the following weeks
2) Flyjet kept on flying for Ghana Travel even though Astreus refused
3) As primary supplier to Ghana Travel they should have/must have had an inkling as to what was happening

The last time I looked Flyjet accounts are still late being filed with Companies House but this may be an admin error? Even if Flyjet have made a profit in their first year any company growing rapidly may suffer from over-trading and the consequential problems that this may have on cash-flows, unless there are strict financial controls. Any bad debt could have serious consequences in this type of situation so going back to my orginal questions:

Q? Given that flights to ACCRA were such a large part of the Flyjet schedule how will they fill the gap?

A. As they are inundated with other customers this should fill their schedule IF they can provide a reliable service.

Q? Can Flyjet overcome the stigma of being associated with the Ghana Travel demise?

A. IF they can provide a reliable service.

Q? How could Flyjet have allowed such a debt to build up?

A. They should not have let a large debt build up and as others have commented they have probably learned a valuable lesson.

Q? What other problems are they hiding beneath the surface and will Flyjet survive?

A. Time will tell once we get to see the information being held back from Companies House and from Liquidators.. MMMM

Q? Is it time to jump carriers?

A. It would appear that others believe there are far better charter operations around.

I think I may be wiser but as yet it looks like I have to wait a little longer to get a final answer ...........!

Meanwhile if anyone wants the link to the strand I copied regards others knocking Flyjet then look for TimS on page:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=166711&perpage=15&pagenumber=2

Sean Dillon

31st Mar 2005, 12:08

ConcernedGH

Wind yer neck in mate....this is just utter cr@p! Can't actually see what your problem is - and the facts that you've stated are quite frankly, non of your business - how the management run FJE is up to them - the company is still in business and will continue to be....

Bamboid

31st Mar 2005, 12:21

Well said SD!

ConcernedGH, I still can't get your angle mate, but you really seem to have a downer on Flyjet and are using this forum to undermine them.

Is it Flyjet who you claim owe you something (though how that might be the case I can't figue out)? If so, then I'd suggest you butt out and let them get on with filling the gap left by GT going under. That way you might just get back whatever it is you claim you're owed.

Just a thought.

Nato 35

31st Mar 2005, 20:35

ConcernedGH seems to have a personal axe to grind about Flyjet. If there is a case to answer it should be taken up in the courts rather than on this forum. Either that or go Jetblast an get eaten alive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. This might be PPRumourNE, but I know for a fact that ass*^@eGH is talking S*@T.

Bye Bye from an Ex PPRUNE'r after webby reads this.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ConcernedGH

1st Apr 2005, 05:39

Latest rumours are that Flyjet are flying out to Ghana this weekend and that a press conference will be taking place out there.

That being the case then we should get the truth and all will be put to rest............... zzzzzzzzzz.

Thought that was the whole point of dabates and forums?
:p

Eurekadelta

1st Apr 2005, 11:59

All I want to say is that according to the information I have about this operation ConcernedGH is absolutely correct in everything he has said. Whoever he is - and I think I have a pretty good shortlist - is/was right at the centre of what was happening.

Everybody that does not believe ConcernedGH is in my opinion therefore full of ****, and clearly does not have the inside information they say they have!

I shall say no more.

ConcernedGH

2nd Apr 2005, 06:24

It appears that there were contract issues between Fljet and Ghana travel that may be the route cause of their dispute.

Flyjet were supposed to fly 233 pax with 20kg hand luggage and 30kg hold luggage per pax.

This was not achieved and max pax was 210. According to flight schedudles from Dec to end Feb 35 flights x 23 pax @ Avg Price £400? = £328,000 disputed loss of income for Ghana Travel.

Astraeus flight only carriee 189 pax with same luggage allowance to ensure all bags carried. So who is right on weight/pax ??????

ConcernedGH

2nd Apr 2005, 06:26

FOXIBOY

2nd Apr 2005, 07:47

Seems to me that no matter FLYJET do it will be wrong in some peoples eyes,the only people that know what really happened are flyjet and ghana travel,it also seems that some people only want to slag flyjet off, i wonder why.

Harrier46

2nd Apr 2005, 08:16

Now that sounds like a reasonable hypothesis. West African charterers are always looking for 40-50kg of baggage per passenger, so I wondered how it would all fit on a 233Y 757. Now we know....it didn't! Would not be the first time a contract was taken on knowing the contracted payload was unrealistic. But regarding the Astraeus aircraft I think they are only configured for 189 so no problem there.

Nato 35

3rd Apr 2005, 21:40

To all concerned, have a word with yourself will you.

1. Flyjet have told Ghana Travel the loads would only be 210 MAX[U] for at least the last 14 months that I've been loading them.

2. The rumour is that someone went walkaout with the bank account and their passport in Ghana, but surely that does not mean that Flyjet is to blame unless its guilt by association. If it does, then there are some large names that come into the equation over the last few years on various projects.

35 :cool:

Bamboid

4th Apr 2005, 22:43

ConcernedGH, you try to legitimise your argument with maths - let's try some shall we?

A typical 757 Aircraft Prepared for Service (APS) mass, in charter fit, is 60.0 tonnes (T). 233 pax at the standard 'all adult' charter weight of 76kg is 17.7T. Adding in your (extremely generous) baggage allowance of 20kg cabin and 30kg hold, gives another 11.65T.

Assuming the aircraft was loaded according to this contractural obligation, its Zero Fuel Mass (ZFM) would be a whopping 89.35T.

Boeing might get a wee bit miffed at this point, since the maximum certificated 757 ZFM is ........ 83.5T.

Whoever quoted you the figures you posted was talking out of their proverbial, sorry mate, you've been had. Or perhaps you haven't, and we should all be paying a bit more attention to the red writing at the bottom of the page.

ConcernedGH

5th Apr 2005, 06:50

According to www.carsurvey.org/airline Flyjet.html (http://www,carsurvey.org/airline Flyjet.html) then when flying with a full load of 233 Pax diversion for fuel to Palma was required.

So if at 233 Pax with 5kg hand and 30kg hold luggage refueling is required then what is actual distance that this plane load could fly?

I am told Flyjet restricted Pax on later flights to 210 with 5kg hand and 30kg hold luggage, but this was still creating problems?

So what does Astraeus know that Flyjet did'nt if they have calculated Pax at only 189?

hapzim

5th Apr 2005, 08:21

And how often are pax and bagage standard weights. Most of the time loads are well over what is shown on paper.:ooh:

Puritan

5th Apr 2005, 09:38

ConcernedGH - Astraeus' B757 aircraft are configured with only 189 seats (http://www.flyastraeus.com/aboutastraeus/index.asp?id=17). This in turn means that the ZeroFuelMass is reduced ( even accounting for the generous increase in baggage allowance ), which in turn means that one can get a good amount of fuel onboard the aircraft (albeit that the take-off weight is usually limited, certainly so on the southbound sectors, by the performance and / or structural take-off weight limits ).

Accordingly ( albeit with the very occassional exception ) these aircraft are able to do West Africa trips - with a full (189) load of pax and their bags ( and sometimes a bit of freight too ) - in a single hop, i.e. non-stop ( which the passengers seem to like ).

Needless to say, having only 189 seats (http://www.flyastraeus.com/aboutastraeus/index.asp?id=17) makes for a generous seat pitch for those long sectors, i.e. typically in the region of 34 to 36 inches ( which is something the passengers also seem to like ).

TJ747

5th Apr 2005, 10:17

Hi there,

Whats the range with the 189 seaters compared with the 233 seater.

Be grateful for the answer to be in hours rather than nm/km as that part will make no sense to me...lol.

Many thx

TJ747

ConcernedGH

5th Apr 2005, 22:32

Light dawns for one who has been in the dark.......

Carrying 189 Pax means baggage can be handled and greater comfort for Pax which all appears to give the Pax what they want. This Sounds like a Marketable Product!

Given that the excess baggage problem is so well known within the industry why were Flyjet still 'cramming on' 210 Pax and leaving themselves having problems with bagage?

Smells like a cowboy operation out for a quick buck? No wonder there quality of service is so poor!

jetstream7

5th Apr 2005, 23:35

ConcernedGH

What exactly is your agenda ?

You slag off FJE at every opportunity...

So.. why?

hoey5o

6th Apr 2005, 10:00

Yeh come on CONCERNED GH why ?

I thought it was Ghana Travel who ran off with your money !

Bamboid

6th Apr 2005, 21:42

Yes Concerned GH, just what EXACTLY is your agenda? - I've already asked you this once on the 'Flyjet Future Prospects' thread, and you singularly failed to reply.

Also, why have you de-camped to this thread following my reply to your contracted weights post, which blew you out of the water? - Have a look fellow ppruners.

In addition, why have you changed your contracted weights query to now state 5kg hand baggage (went out years ago) and 30kg hold baggage (20kg is the international standard before excess baggage is charged)?

You post as though you are an informed person when you obviously are not.

In short, why don't you just shut up.

Trol E Doll

8th Apr 2005, 07:33

One of my Captain friends tells me his salary was late this month from FJE. He's rather worried.

TimS

8th Apr 2005, 13:21

Anyone wanting to see the latest developments on this issue can try http://www.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHomePage/NewsArchive/ (far too long to cut and paste on here - 3 articles)

TimS

ConcernedGH

9th Apr 2005, 07:54

Information from the Ghana Travel Ltd creditors meeting on thursday is that the Air Travel Trust has requested the insolvency team investigate the actions of the Directors of bothe Ghana Travel and Flyjet in regards their breach of directors duties and the brach of CAA rules.

It would appear that having signed a 'Heads of Agreement' with Ghana Travel then they may be seen as acting as an agent for Flyjet which would leave Flyjet responsible for all payments and costs for their customers flights resulting in a potential over £500k.

The Directors of Ghana Travel must believe they have a strong case against Flyjet as the repute any indebtedness and are seeking to issue writs against Flyjet for breach of contract and gross-misrepresentation which could run into £m's

Given the failure of Flyjet and it's directors to follow due process I am informed that additional writs will be issued that hold Flyjet and the directors of Flyjet jointly and severally liable for the demise of Ghana Travel which again could run into £m's.

It looks like Flyjet by their actions have opened a very nessy can of worms that will be wrigling around them for a long time to come!