Give me all your excuses....1989..VB...Jet*...Impulse...

[Kaptin M]

Anyone else sick of reading the buck-passing bullsh!t being served up at times, wrt the above?
"Some people" feel that it's an easy cop out to lay the blame at the feet of others, rather than shoulder their OWN, real responsibility.

In reality have the (lower than QANDOM's) established Australian 737 pilots' T & C's been actually affected by those of the VB pilots - and is it possible to sc@b on a sc@b?!! ;)

Isn't it ABOUT TIME AIPA (ie. QANTAS) pilots grew some balls, if they think they're being dis-advantaged by other pilot groups?

The AFAP pilots took a stand - and stood their ground for what they believed in - when the time came. And believe it, or not, we SURVIVED.
You can't continue going on like frightened whimps, blaming OTHERS for your own lack of spine.
I'm sure some of you must be wondering where you're going to be in a few years' time, simply because you don't have the guts to face things head on today, but would rather blame - the VB pilots, or JetStar, or the Impulse guys, or the excessive number of G.A. pilots wanting to scoop your job, or your kids' education fees, or your house mortgage, or....or......or........!!

Time to grow a spine, AIPA pilots - or shut the F:mad:CK up!

[prospector]

Kaptin M,
Take two aspro's, and how much sick leave do you have???

Prospector

[fire wall]

really?
Then why is it alledged you made approaches after the "big holiday" to come back ?
Being a man of conviction a bit hard?
You are full of wind.

[F/O Bloggs]

"Anyone else sick of reading the buck-passing bullsh!t being served up at times"

Yep, sure am, especially the bullsh!t you have written just now.

Boring, here comes Kapn venting his spleen on a Saturday night.

I'm off to a pub, why don't you go and do the same and chill out

dude.


:cool:

[Kaptin M]

Let's fast forward to the HERE and NOW, because THAT is where we're at. :}

[Yarra]

Wot's up Kapt? The life in Asia getting to you?

[Agent Mulder]

So the AFAP stood up and?

You lost your job and access to your profession in your homeland.

Then the AFAP stood up and?

Virgin Pilots accepted 50% less than the going rate for B737 Pilots in this country with AFAP sanctioning.

Then the AFAP stood up and?

Assisted the NJS Pilots in undercutting the previously lowest paid B717 pilots in the western world by $20k and agreed to pay for their endorsements.

AIPA has stood up over the years and as a result Qantas mainline pilots enjoy the best terms and conditions of any southern hemisphere carrier. They are now standing up for the others and looking to assist where assistance has been lacking in the past.

Remind me again of where your big balls have you currently living?

Stop drinking nasty juice, it does not become you. In your absence your beloved AFAP has become the first, second and third favourite in the race to the bottom. But as long as the boys in head office stay employed who cares!

BTW muss is right when he says that Oldmeadow and the AFAP are in bed. Your heart must ache at the thought.

[Zapatas Blood]

"Assisted the NJS Pilots in undercutting the previously lowest paid B717 pilots in the western world by $20k and agreed to pay for their endorsements."

This is the second time in one week I have read this on pprune.

Can we stick to facts, there ARE lower paid 717 pilots in the western world than NJS (and lower paid A320 pilots than Jetstar AND lower paid 767 pilots than QF - does anyone do any research before posting such crap)

[Kaptin M]

It wasn't the "AFAP" that stood up, Mulder - it was the PILOTS who consituted them AFAP - the pilot body to whom the vote, each and every time was put and voted upon, BEFORE being enacted - that directed THEIR union to act for (them), as does ANY democratically elected representative.
Virgin Pilots accepted 50% less than the going rate for B737 Pilots in this country with AFAP sanctioning. "Sanctioning"??? The ONLY 737 pilots at the time of VB's inception were the QF pilots. So by logical reasoning the only body acting on their behalf must have been AIPA - if that is factually the case.
But has VB had ANY real affect on the QF 737 pilots's award?
The answer is "No".

Any affect has been imagined - not real.

But, AIPA - the QF pilots' representaive has allowed Australian and JetStar to get up and running, all the while conveniently trying to blame VB pilots, but without having the guts to say "Enough!"

Come on guys (and girls), just how far CAN you bend over before you start to accept SOME responsibility for your OWN destiny??Remind me again of where your big balls have you currently living? I'm sure you know the answer to that, Mulder - am I complaining?!:D
No - but YOU lot sure as hell are!

[Scrubbed]

Yes you are.........

[Capn Bloggs]

Mulder,

agreed to pay for their endorsements

They did not. Get your "facts" straight, you BS artist.

[Andu]

AIPA has stood up over the years and as a result Qantas mainline pilots enjoy the best terms and conditions of any southern hemisphere carrier. Foxx, me old digger... reading that statement of yours reminds me of "there's lies, damn lies and statistics". Or perhaps, given your user name, I should hark back to "Scully, they're out there... somewhere..."

Now let's analyse "Qantas mainline pilots enjoy the best terms and conditions of any southern hemisphere carrier". How many others are there? In what might be loosely be called "First World countries"?
Aur NuZulllund?
Seth Efrican Aerwayz?
...I think we can safely ignore South America.

Not much of a list to compare yourselves with, is it mate?

To most in the industry who are still in Australia, or who joined the industry after 89 and, whether they will admit it or not, were exposed to one (and only one) side of the 89 argument - the "heroes'" version of events - "Kapt M" is a George Bush figure - someone you simply have to disagree with no matter what he says.

Those who say we need to stop looking backwards and look forward are talking sense, but looking at some of the comments here and on other threads, I fear they are pushing the proverbial uphill with a pointy stick.

If you're satisfied with AIPA's performance since its misconceived inception, you simply don't know better. It's been said before, but the establishment of AIPA was the first - and large - nail in Australian pilots' inustrial coffin.

[Flying Ninja]

Mulder 1 ......... Kraptin 0



Read your own rhetoric ( you DH).

Take responsibility for your OWN actions. You and your upstanding friends not only sealed your own destiny but stuffed it for every young guy who has to buy an endorsement in order to get a job that will never be what it was before you got to your grubbly little hands and inflated egos on ' 89.

Thanks alot. You lot are the real "heros" of '89.

Lets not forget you went running back when you saw in was all turning to ****e. Pity you didn't "stand up " then and tell others what you were doing. Probably trying to get back before the others in the know in order to get a higher seniority number.

What say you Krap?
Want to "stand up" now?

Yours Sincerely,
Ninj

Friend and admirer

[flyingfox]

So by the sound of some of these posts it's all Kaptin Ms' fault!
AIPA lost the war in '89 when it sat on its' hands; and later made it even worse by then representing the aquired 'Australian' pilots. Who is going to join such a union which will clearly break up in internal dissention if ever pushed to make a real decision. Controlling all the Q fractions won't fix the industry now. Q is only part of the picture. When the AIPA people became self obsessed and left the AFAP; the writing was on the wall for a devided industry. No individual company was ever likely to 'own' the skies for ever.
Good luck AIPA pilots. Fight or flight .....

[schnauzer]

Jeez. Do we really have to do this? Kapt? How tall are you? It really seems to me that you have "short mans syndrome". Its the only explanation I can figure....

Have a nice day everyone....!:uhoh:

[Woomera]

Nope, we don't have to do this.

Again!

Woomera