Another BA one! [Archive]

Helli-Gurl

12th Mar 2005, 13:45

My experience of the LHR-BKK-SYD route was nothing short of a nightmare, no diabetic meal, accused of being on a staff ticket even tho I was a full fare paying passenger and treated like Sh*t by the purser for daring to complain.

Upshot was I had nothing substantial to eat for the 11 hour flt, was v dehydrated, hungry and it took me a couple of days to sort out my blood sugar after.

Did I get an apology for their treatment after they realised their mistake...NO! ...they just kept out of my way instead and because I new the FO on the flt they made comments that they had felt let down that I had complained!

As a full fare paying passenger do I not have a right to complain when the service falls short? why should I accept poor service, I bet none of the CC would. Not to mention the risk they presented to my health.

Now I check to make sure they've loaded the meal when I board the plane, if not I tell them thye either load one or spend 30 minutes off loading my bags and put men on another flt at their expense..hotel if need be....their call! but I will not tolerate that poor quality of service or abuse ever again on a BA flt!

traveller5

12th Mar 2005, 23:18

manintheback- I have extensive experience as a frequent flyer (30+ longhaul flights/year) and the best airlines for decent customer service are Singapore, Thai, Jal and ANA.

When I talk of customer service, I refer to simple things like being offered a drink more than once on a 12hr flight! Singapore/JAL etc do the usual pre-meal drink, main meal and then there is obviously a crew rest period, BUT the remaining crew are still in the cabin. Half way through the flight the drinks trollies come out and snacks are offered before the other crew go for rest and then another meal about 2 hrs before landing.

BA longhaul ( and I'm not talking transatlantic hops!) offers dire customer service, but the crew don't really care because they're all asleep... "resting" from what? Why do I travel BA? Because I'm not in charge of booking my seats, BUT I have made a request that BA not be considered for any flight over 7 hrs!!

PS a Health Warning to anyone travelling BA longhaul (over 7 hrs)....Actually, just disturb the sleeping crew because you are the customer!

manintheback

13th Mar 2005, 13:14

As per my earlier response, in which class?

pilotwolf

13th Mar 2005, 16:07

Had similar on BA LAX - LHR after Virgin bumped me due to tech problems, vowed never to travel long haul with them, (BA), again and haven't yet in 9 or 10 trips... complained to BA and Virgin - received nothing from BA despite follow up letter, standard response within 48hr from Virgin followed a week later with apology and hefty compensation in the way of rewards miles.

Why does class make a difference? Because a pax pays their own way and can't afford first or upper they should gat lower standard of service and safety checks through the flight?

PW

Mashie Niblick

13th Mar 2005, 17:03

Traveller5,
ALL airlines are the same on long "overnight" flts.If you want the crew trundling up & down with trollies all night........fine! But they've got to have the lights on to do this.Most people want to sleep for at least a few hours.It's difficult enough in economy,even without bright lights on.Last time I flew back from far east on such a flt,most of the people around me were complaining that the lights were still "ON" 3 hours into the flt.
I have never seen any airline switch the lights on mid way through a long overnighter back from far east to do a drinks round!!

Ever heard of a call bell? If you press it....most often a crew member will come over to see see what you would like.You can even order a drink!! It's quite amazing........

Sometimes, when I have been feeling rather energetic,I have actually got out of my seat and taken a stroll to the galley.(I have been told this is a good thing to do, in general, on a long flt....something to do with dvt or some such nonsense)
Once I got to the galley,I found the so called "disappearing" crew.They were all in there with loads of goodies and drinks.Tea & coffee was on,bars were open,sandwiches,crisps,cakes,chocs....even some pot noodles were on offer.I chanced my arm and actually "asked" for some of the nice things.
Blow me....if it wasn't handed over without hesitation and I even had a nice chat for 10 mins or so with a couple of the nice ladies.
It was incredible.I,like you,only thought that what they brought to my seat was all that was available for the entire flt!

You won't believe this....but I went back a couple of hours later........and they let me have MORE. 'Twas indeed a miracle!
This time I asked the nice ladies about why some of the crew were "resting"..surely they had not worked for long really?
Apparently they had already been down to Austrailia from London and had gone though a few time changes in the last few days,including 3 overnight flights and only had one night in Sydney so their body clocks were a bit "all over the place".

Phew,did I feel silly.I thought that all cabin crew were able to turn their "clocks" on and off like a switch on a robot.....,whenever they wanted.I didn't realise they were normal people just like me!!

Anyhow...it's something to do with some legal CAA twaddle that they have to be awake and a bit "bright eyed" in case something goes wrong with the nasty plane when it comes into land,and they might have to do some emergency things or other?

The pilots have to do the same thing too,they told me!!
Wow!!

1DC

13th Mar 2005, 17:31

When I fly to Oz i usually fly Malaysian, generally in business but sometimes in the back. The service is always good back or front. As I pay for my own flights, wife always travells with me, I can usually get a deal in business with Malaysian but never on BA or Qantas. I accept that i'm not getting a flatbed but that doesn't bother me, although they are due in Malaysian this year.
If I travel in the back I won't fly BA or Qantas because the seat pitch is lousy compared to Malaysian.

Jordan D

13th Mar 2005, 17:54

BA Longhaul - got upgraded to Club (upper deck) in Jan flying BOM-LHR ... although it was a night flight, the crew were always at the back of the cabin if you needed anything (often only one of the two, but nonetheless), they served the food in cabin, with the lights off - so those who wanted to sleep could, and everyone else had a multitude of personal lights turned on for them.

As I see it, they were excellent.

Jordan

CosmosSchwartz

13th Mar 2005, 19:35

As per Captains brief - Cabin crew are there for your comfort and PRIMARILY your safety. They are not there to check on you every hour for 10,11,12+ hours in case your drink has run out. If you want something, ASK for it. Or, as Mashie said (but a lot more eloquently) Get off your arse and go and get it!

I never ceased to be amazed by people who think because they(or their employer) have paid for a flight they should be waited on hand and foot.

manintheback

13th Mar 2005, 19:41

quote: Pilotwolf

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Why does class make a difference? Because a pax pays their own way and can't afford first or upper they should gat lower standard of service and safety checks through the flight?
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er, well yes I think most do indeed expect a better standard of service in Business to Economy!

rsoman

14th Mar 2005, 03:54

Agreed, lighting up the cabin four hours into the flight for a drinks round may not be welcome.

But I do remember a LH overnighter, back in Coach, where cabin crew were doing the rounds every half an hour or so, checking with those pax who were awake reading et all whether they needed anything and fetching the same.

GwynM

14th Mar 2005, 07:46

yet again someone makes a reasonable point, (i.e. the crew weren't in the galley), and gets attacked with poor sarcasm (Mashie Niblik) showing they haven't read the original post properly or oblique references that he should have travelled business class if they want reasonable service.

Is anyone going to answer the original question? (where were the crew?)

TightSlot

14th Mar 2005, 08:33

Excuse me chucking in my dime, but I find this thread interesting, especially as we are currently reworking our longhaul service product. It is very hard to know what to do for the best on night sectors. Lights on and crew clattering through the cabin are undesirable to some, but a demonstration of high service to others.

My personal preference is to get lights out as quick as possible and get the crew in the galleys. Once that is done, it is vital that crew regularly patrol the cabin and ensure that the perception exists that they are happy to cater for pax needs, either at the seat, or on visits to the galley. This can sometimes be easier to ask them to do than for them to achieve...

;)

Curious Pax

14th Mar 2005, 09:19

My experience of bmi longhaul is that after a meal and lights out one of the cabin crew comes round every 30 minutes or so with some OJ and water on a tray for anyone who wishes to take one. Hence those sleeping are not disturbed unnecessarily, and waking pax get the opportunity to see that the CC aren't skiving, so everyone is happy. It would appear to also give a number of the crew a chance for a break as they weren't all involved at the same time.

amanoffewwords

14th Mar 2005, 09:23

Last time I flew long haul on BA - Feb 2004 - from JHB-LHR the crew seemed to be coming and up and down with orange juice/water every 30 mins or so after lights-out. When we hit turb at the seat-belt sign went on they were out in a flash making the cabin secure - I was wondering at the time how they kept going all that time. It was all very impressive - and I've never had the feeling on this or any other BA flight of being left alone or not seeing cc for extended periods of time.

amowf

ps. the getting out and getting your own drink is fine as long as you've got an aisle seat...otherwise you tend to be stuck...

malanda

14th Mar 2005, 13:03

My experience of bmi longhaul is that after a meal and lights out one of the cabin crew comes round every 30 minutes or so with some OJ and water on a tray for anyone who wishes to take one.
This is perfect as far as I'm concerned. I've had similar service from LH longhaul recently - as soon as I woke (with the lights still off) someone was there offering "water, sir?".

A rather more undesirable experience was on a 6-hour overnight flight (no timezone change), departing at midnight. A light snack was served soon after takeoff, followed by lights out. Fine. But at 4am the lights came on and a big breakfast was served. Breakfast was all over in 45 minutes - then they turned the lights off again. Wierd, wierd, wierd.

radeng

14th Mar 2005, 13:08

I've found BA longhaul very good. As mashieniblick says, walk down the back, and they're always at least one of them there.

But crews do vary a lot, don't they.

Compare with America West:

Trolley comes round: "Jer wanna drink?"
radeng, "If you please, a club soda"
"Waddyer mean, if yer please? Are taking the piss out of me?"

or when delayed,

'Come up to the desk for re-routing'
'What's your final destination tonight, sir?'
'London Heathrow'
'Oh sh*t!'

Mashie Niblick

14th Mar 2005, 13:43

GwynM,
I suggest it is YOU that has not read the origional post.Where does it state.....as you did.....that the "crew were not in the galley"?

I think you will find the poster was referring to the crews "disappearance" as in from the passenger cabin.
Bearing in mind this is a Boeing 747 we are talking about as opposed to a cruise liner,were do you think that the crew would be if they were not in the galley? Other than the flight deck or locking themselves in individual toilets for 9 hours,there IS nowhere else that they would,or could be!

You may have been confused by the posters "self service" comment.Once the main service has been done and the 1st half of the crew start their rest break,the "on duty" crew generally set up lots of drinks,snacks etc on the counters in the galley so that folks can wander up and help themselves if they so wish.If there is something else you want that is not "on display",then you only have to ask.The crew WILL be in the galley 'cos there is no other place they physically can be!

All airlines,including BA, come around periodically with juice and water for those that are awake.If you happen to be sleeping for long periods,perhaps you can get the "impression",as I think the poster has, that you haven't seen the crew for some considerable time.Again....that is what a call bell is for particularly if you are in a window seat.

Yes my post may have been "poor sarcasm",but given the general peevishness and petulance of the origional post, that had very little or no substance in terms of details,I thought at the time it deserved an equally ridiculous reply.

Final 3 Greens

14th Mar 2005, 13:55

Bearing in mind this is a Boeing 747 we are talking about as opposed to a cruise liner,were do you think that the crew would be if they were not in the galley? In the crew rest areas perhaps?

BOFH

14th Mar 2005, 15:36

radeng hits the nail on the head - experiences vary. I am compelled to fly LHR-SYD-LHR twice annually (and have been for some time), and as I have to pay for it, it's down the back :{

BA is my airline of choice, on average being far better than QF in the OW tribe. Sometimes they're great, sometimes indifferent. They provide me with cost-effective and (so far) reliable service, so I don't mind the DIY bar.

The best advice for anyone travelling over such a distance is to break the journey, even if only for 24 hours. You'd be amazed at how much less onerous the second leg is.

BOFH

Mashie Niblick

14th Mar 2005, 15:45

final 3,
Not when the "resting crew" were already in there.It is not possible to fit an entire crew of 15/16 in there.Sleeping for 8 max only."ON duty" crew never go into rest area until is is time to wake "resting crew" from their slumber.

The fact remains,contrary to the posters' impression,that there would have been half of the crew complement ON DUTY and most likely in the galley areas or walking round cabin or checking toilets etc.But they WOULD have been there.There is nowhere else for them to go!

PAXboy

18th Mar 2005, 18:11

I have no axe to grind here as I tend not to use BA for LH but thought that I would throw a fire-cracker into the thread. :ok:

A friend has just returned from a short leisure trip to Lisbon (out on Monday back today) and she reports this from a regular punter point of view (discount seat in Coach with a full service carrier:

Hi, had a fabulous trip, everything wonderful except, of course, for lovely old BA. Never going to travel with them again. Outward flight delayed, no food.
Return flight delayed, but they did not warn us, and we spent nearly two hours confined in a hot corridor without toilet or refreshment facilities - not allowed back through gate control, not allowed into the gate lounge. They continue to treat their passengers like cattle. They don't get my business again.

At present I know no more but she is not one to exaggerate and is a highly seasoned traveller and well used to things going wrong beyond the fault of the carrier. But it is the being abandoned, almost more than the lack of refreshment, that is the point here and the point behind this thread.

amanoffewwords

18th Mar 2005, 20:24

Like it never happens with other airlines.

Globaliser

18th Mar 2005, 22:37

amanoffewwords: Like it never happens with other airlines.We live in a world of asymmetric reporting, so what do you expect?

Take, for example, the perfect (but totally hypothetical) s**t-stirring headline: "More British pax stuffed around by BA than by any other airline". Almost certainly true. Equally certainly tells you nothing of any substance. Lies, damned lies and statistics.

The only mystery to me is why I've managed to break my self-imposed rule not to bother with BA-kicking threads like this.

PAXboy

19th Mar 2005, 02:39

It is certainly true that BA has taken a kicking in here of late (on many forums) and it may be as simple as being the biggest and transporting more of us and so more opportunities to get it wrong.

I suspect that what happened to my friend is a problem of an agent, rather than the airline itself but, of course, the airline has to take the rap for anything that happens to it's passengers in it's name.

Monitoring out stations and how they treat the pax may not be as rigorous and frequent as it once was. Do BA still have 'secret shoppers' who book and fly and make notes of what the service is actually like? Or do they just monitor other carriers now and reckon that complaints will direct them to the trouble spots fast enough?

Alpha Leader

19th Mar 2005, 04:47

The bottom line with all flights is that the attitude of the cabin crew will make or break the impression left on all passengers.

For me, one of the most memorable flights (in the positive sense) was a recent flight on Emirates (Y-class) from Colombo to Dubai via Male. On the short leg from CMB to MLE, a light meal was served. When I asked for coffee, I was told there was neither tea or coffee on offer (....!?!?).

During the stopover in Male - just as all passengers for this destination had deplaned - the chief purser came to my seat and asked for me to follow her to the galley. There, she explained that upon departure from CMB, the flight deck had advised turbulent conditions en route and for safety reasons they had decided not to serve hot drinks. She apologised for not having communicated this and, pulling the curtain aside, presented a tray with freshly brewed coffee and cookies for me to avail of during the stopover.

This very personal gesture turned made this flight - out of more than 100 I take every year - the one I remember best, and - despite other issues I have had with Emirates - a major reason why I use EK regularly.

wheelbarrow

19th Mar 2005, 08:22

Not to worry, good ole Willie will sort out the scivers and wasters in BA. Jolly good!!

wombat13

25th Mar 2005, 08:00

I'm with you on this one Easyflyer. No, I don't work for BA or any company related to the industry, but yes I do fly often (although not quite the 30 plus long haul flights so far this year claimed by traveller5 on this thread - he / she does work in the industry, is telling fibs of need their head seeing to - they were at pains to point out long haul is not transatlantic, which tells me they are new at the game since no FT would feel it necessary to point something like this out).

My experience of BA in the air AND at check in - as good as you can hope for - often better. My view on life is that things can and do go wrong. Humans and machines. I make mistakes, so does everyone else on this forum.

Flew with my family to Chicago a few weeks back. At LHR, outstanding service from ticketing and check in. At the lounge - mmmm. Could do better. In the air, excellent. Now I know I have flown with them before when a certain member of the crew has annoyed me with allowing their personal problems on the day to show through - but hey, life. As for it being a one off? On the way back from Miami check in were as good as london and the crew just great.

IB4138

25th Mar 2005, 10:42

About 20 years ago, when Iberia operated the A300's on the AGP-LHR route, it was the custom to serve the meal, drink and wine, as soon into the flight as possible, then retreive the empties.
The front galley was then set up as a duty free shop and the rear one as a bar, complete with small bar top across the servery. It was made clear that you had to get up to shop or aquire more drink. There was even room to stand in the rear galley with your drink and have a chat with other passengers or the cabin crew if you wished.
In those days it was often possible to get a Brazilian Brahma beer on those flights, as the aircraft also operated some MAD- S.America routes:ok:

Just an idea that you might like to consider Tightslot and one that would be pleasant if re-invented today by any airline for all classes of passenger, on a wide body.

manintheback

25th Mar 2005, 11:08

quote

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although not quite the 30 plus long haul flights so far this year claimed by traveller5 on this thread - he / she does work in the industry, is telling fibs of need their head seeing to
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Glad someone has finally spotted this anomaly.. Add the maths for days in the air against days on the ground working or r&r and it sure leads for a hectic life!.

Flip Flop Flyer

25th Mar 2005, 18:08

Having once sworn never to fly BA again, these days it's the company paying the tickets and as such I'll have to accept what they give me. I did have a choice between GF and BA, but since both forced by through the mall from hell called Heathrow, I decided to give the BA flatbed a shot. And what a jolly nice experience it was! Those flatbeds are so nice, even if sitting 8 across in a 777 would lend one to belive it would be rather tight. But it wasn't, it was nice. Also had concerns about flying "backwards" but apart from the rather odd sensation on take-off, it's a total non-event.

No, the cabin crew are not as good looking as those on GF - but they were much more charming, funny and attentive. GF hosties are like robots, BA ditto like human beings. I don't think any GF hostie would dare give you a quick come-back to a sneaky remark; "my" BA hostie gave it back raw and undilluted! Made my day, she did.

In short: Service was perfect, professional and delivered in a refreshingly "human" way. The flatbed is a gift to aviation and the 777, whilst being marginally more noisy than a 330 or 340, a very nice aeroplane to traverse continents in. The IFE was top-notch and I'm actually looking forward to my return BAH-LHR flight in the very near future. This is remarkable since I've always held the conviction that any aeroplane capable of holding fuel for more than a 3 hour flight should never have my sorry self onboard.

Have done the last 2 BAH-LHR-SomewhereinEurope and back on GF and the impression was less than stellar. Old seats, dodgy IFE, "robot" hosties, bland food and the same items on the menu every time. I'm probably growing into an over pampered git, but if the seats in C ain't flatbeds, I'm not impressed. Finding oneself bitching about unpleasentness in a C-seat should be a sign of same.

I'll be posting flight details here for my BAH-LHR on BA when I get them, hoping that my prasing the BA service here would grant me an upgrade from J to F :O I know, but one can always hope, right?

traveller5

26th Mar 2005, 16:29

wombat and manintheback - IF you take time to read my reply, you would have noticed I wrote 30 or so flights/year. The / = per, as in per year, not since the beginning of the year.

Worrying.

wombat13

28th Mar 2005, 10:00

T5, take it easy old buff. Simple mistake made by me and followed up by MITB. Still feel sorry for you and your 30 lh's per year though.

What it does not change is the theme of my response. I know the subservient attitude of the Asian cabin staff girls is to the liking of many. I like mine with a bit of spunk in them and simply enjoy the BA experience.

What you should do is get out of business class for a while. Either use your miles to upgrade or take a few flights in cattle class. You get a better class of people in both those parts of the aircraft. There is something about a lot of the passengers in business that behave as if the world owes them something, just because their company pays for them to travel business.