London designator airports (IATA = LON)

[jabird]

Very little info on the web about who's in and who's out with regards to the LON designator. Some sites wrongly attribute this to LHR too. This is the way I see it at present - any corrections or comments?


London "definites"

According to OAG, there are five airports with the London designator (LON).

These are - LHR, LGW, STN, LTN & LCY.

London "pretenders"?

OAG makes no mention of SEN, as nothing in timetable yet (Flybe's JER not 'till 7th May), but they bill themselves as London Southend. I've always understood SEN to be a London airport, going back to its "heyday", perhaps best exemplified in Goldfinger, when there were two flights to GVA leaving within half an hour. Now I don't believe everything I see in films (after all, the last Bond movie had BA doing a direct service from Havana), but I would give SEN the benefit of the doubt.

Lydd has ambitions, but they really don't look likely atm. Biggin Hill has had an IOW shuttle previously suggested, but otherwise aren't they pretty well hemmed in by local licensing? Presumably Northolt has no pax intentions?

Not London?

MSE now says: "Welcome to the new website for Kent International Airport, previously known as London Manston Airport", so can one presume they have given up trying to be "London East", if FR aren't interested?

Presumably the likes of OXF, CAM etc which have been rumoured for possible domestic shuttle routes, would not make any claim to be London airports, even if they are closer to some parts of London time-wise than STN or LGW might be? Then again, the same could be said for CVT, and probably even BHX or SOU, especially if getting to these by train!

[PAXboy]

If STN can claim to be 'London, not to mention my local LTN, then SEN could claim to be a close neighbour of LCY! :rolleyes:

[jabird]

Multimap has SEN as 43.8 miles from Oxford Circus tube station, and STN as 44.8.

OAG has STN as 34 miles, and LTN as 32. I presume these are as the crow flies, although not sure what they use as the reference point - the GPO tower? I used Oxford Circus, as that is one of the most central points that people actually go to. Timewise, I'd be interested in seeing "theories" on which airport is closest to it - LHR by LHR Express & Bakerloo? LCY by taxi; or bus to LPL Street & Central line? Has anyone ever timed it?

[TheOddOne]

Oi!

LGW has one of the quickest links to Central London, 30 mins to Victoria.

As you say, depends upon where you're trying to get to. I thought that traditionally, Charing Cross was taken as the geographical centre of the Great Metropolis...

Cheers,
TheOddOne

[The SSK]

The IATA Coding Directory shows the following entries for London:

BQH Biggin Hill
ZLX British Rail Terminal
LGW Gatwick
LHR Heathrow
LCY London City Airport
QQW London-Waterloo
LTN Luton Airport
LON Metropolitan Area
STN Stansted
ZEP Victoria Railway Station

There are all kinds of procedures laid down for the inclusion of a particular airport in a metropolitan area, including a poll of all the scheduled carriers at that airport.

[CargoOne]

Airports can advertise and name themselves in the way they want. But it is IATA who assigning official 3-letter airport and metropolitan codes. So until IATA will make an another assignment, Manston can advertise themselves even as "London Number One Primary Airport" but it will have nothing to do with LON code.

[Red Four]

The distances to Oxford Circus are well and good, however the distance to the Central Business District (CBD) ie: City of London are less and in SENs favour, especially as it has a frequent direct rail link into Liverpool Street Station.

And with the Docklands development, the Centre of Gravity of the City is now averaging further east. Then factor in the massive Thames Gateway development corridor to the east of London (and incidentally extending to London Southend airport) that is just beginning to trundle into action, and most people can see that SEN has a part to play as a London regional airport for the eastern side of London.

I heard that the reluctance to list as a London airport is not IATA's, but more down to the UK Aviation regulator???

[The SSK]

I heard that the reluctance to list as a London airport is not IATA's, but more down to the UK Aviation regulator??? IATA is just an impartial administrator of the codes. Of course some of the likely objectors to a remote airport being added to a metropolitan area might be IATA members...

Airports can advertise and name themselves in the way they want The UK Office of Fair Trading might have something to say about that. They recently made a judgement against Ryanair based on the IATA definitions (to which Ryanair complied, before you ask).

[SATCO Biggin]

I heard that the reluctance to list as a London airport is not IATA's, but more down to the UK Aviation regulator???

Correct. If your countries regulator will agree to the name you chose for your airport then that is how it will be listed.

The problem is getting the regulator to agree :mad:

Biggin Hill (BQH) geographically is nearer to the centre of London than some of the big names, and we market ourselves as London Biggin Hill on our headed paper and publicity blurb. However the CAA steadfastly refuse to list us as 'London' in the UK AIP. I am not aware that they have any legal grounds for refusing to do so.
:confused:

[Wycombe]

Desk Jockey.....

In years gone by, your list would have probably included IATA Code BBS.

Pop quiz gold star of the day for the person who can name the airfield !!

[jabird]

Desk Jockey,


ZLX British Rail Terminal
QQW London-Waterloo
ZEP Victoria Railway Station

Interesting that they've chosen these ones. Presumably Victoria is because it also had the "boat trains", or is it because of the check-in facilities for LGW?

So why no mention of Paddington, or Euston & KX, which offer rail routes to destinations which are also served by shuttle flights (MAN, LPL, GLA; LBA, MME (Darlington), NCL & EDI + DND & ABZ at a push etc)?

What would the new code be for St Pancras, and isn't Stratford also getting Eurostar. Ebbsfleet would just be domestic, wouldn't it?

Wycombe,

I cheated, but one of the code sites also has BBS = Blackbush, Saudi Arabia??

How about Croydon?

[The SSK]

Blackbushe with an 'e' used to have the code BBS.

In the oldest timetable I can lay my hands on (1958) BBS was listed but I didn't find any flights there. None of the London airports had identifier codes. Apart from LHR, Gatwick had just a few Channel Islands flights, ditto Croydon and Stansted had a solitary Malta flight. Southend was not listed as London

I had this notion that BBS was used for some of the 'low-cost' colonial services down to East Africa. I vaguely remember an old movie about a busload of passengers that got lost in the fog on the way there.

[Globaliser]

jabird: Interesting that they've chosen these ones. Presumably Victoria is because it also had the "boat trains", or is it because of the check-in facilities for LGW?

So why no mention of Paddington, or Euston & KX, which offer rail routes to destinations which are also served by shuttle flights (MAN, LPL, GLA; LBA, MME (Darlington), NCL & EDI + DND & ABZ at a push etc)?QQP = Paddington
QQU = Euston
QQK = Kings Cross

[Red Four]

Satco Biggin

Agree with your post.

Obviously there needs to be some common sense on what the public can realistically expect from a 'London' airport, by way of services available and distance to the city concerned. The CAA allegedly use the ICAO criteria for naming, but then of course modify it with their own interpretation, based on historic prejudices from out-dated white-papers.

UK AIP has EGLW listed under London, obviously CAA has no qualms over the level of services expected to be found by passengers going in there!

I guess until a legal challenge is launched, the situation will be slow to change.

(Oh, and there is no truth that there is a correlation between BAA/NATS units and a 'London' listing, excepting EGLW!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: )

[TheOddOne]

Firstly, the road and public transport links between Biggin and Central London could do with a massive improvement. Last time I had to go there to collect an a/c it involved a rail journey to Bromley and a bus ride. Has it improved since then?

Secondly, EGLW stood for London Westland Heliport. Since Harrods bought it, perhaps it needs changing to EGLH, which is available (should be EGLF reflecting the owner, but Farnborough got there first!)

Cheers,
TOO

[AlanM]

What about FAB!?

Oh - and Harrods haven't owned Battersea for some time.....

[TheOddOne]

AlanM,

Ooer, yes, sorry!

So EGLW remains appropriate! - Weston Aviation...

TOO

[SATCO Biggin]

Firstly, the road and public transport links between Biggin and Central London could do with a massive improvement.

Right.....so the name of an airport depends upon the quality of the road network and not its location geographically to nearby major cities :confused:

[TheOddOne]

SATCO Biggin,

All I was saying was that from personal experience in the past, trying to get to/from Biggin by Public Transport has been a bit fraught and time consuming. Admittedly I haven't tried to get direct from Biggin to Central London by road. We promote our public transport links because we believe they will help us with the environmental impact of our growth.

Personally, as far as I'm concerned, there is only ONE London Airport, (LAP) to the west of London on the Bath Road, where used to stand the place known as Heath Row. All the rest is pure marketing **** but don't tell my employers!


The Odd One

ps Just got to the bit in the Da Vinci Code where your place features. Bit far-fetched! (Won't spoil it for you if you haven't read it yet...)

[ebenezer]

LGW has one of the quickest links to Central London, 30 mins to Victoria.

If you want to compare travel to London's airports from the Capital, try this.

By rail:

Paddington-LHR Central (T 1, 2 & 3) = 15mins (+ walk = 5 mins)
Paddington-LHR T 4 = 20 mins
St Pancras-LTN = 23 mins (+ shuttlebus = 5 mins)
Islington-LCY (Silvertown) = 28 mins (+ walk = 6 mins)
Victoria-LGW S Terminal = 30 mins (N Terminal + Transit = 3 mins)
Kings X Thameslink-LTN = 30 mins (+ shuttlebus = 5 mins)
Liverpool Street-STN = 45 mins
Liverpool Street-SND = 48 mins (when/if it's built...)
Waterloo-SOU = 71min (+ walk = 4 mins).

Only three deliver you to the 'door': LHR T 4, LGW S Terminal & STN.

Alas ex-RAF Biggin Hill doesn't feature in the timetable...

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