Military or Commercial Career?

[Aerospace101]

Dear All,

You have left School or University with all the essential qualifications & life skills and want to live the dream of being a pilot!

Your dilemma: Where do you go, Military (RAF) or Commercial (Airlines)?

We all know the cyclic nature of the aviation industry, but looking towards the immediate future the RAF is on the downsize, cuts and tough recruitment whereas the Airlines are soon to be picking up growth and recruitment.

I would like to get your personal views of which choice you would make tomorrow?


I know that this ‘Topic/Theme’ has been done before, but thought it was time for updated views, in light of post 9/11 airline growth and RAF cutbacks.

Lets get some top quality advice/views flowing….


Keep the dream alive!


Previous Threads;

‘Join RAF or BA?’ (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=48091)

‘Going for ATC RAF or ATPL?’ (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=165972)

‘Quit RAF FJ training for the Airlines’ (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=163757)

[totalwar]

Ooooooooohhhhhhhhh...Bad choice.... think again fella.

If you want to spend your time moaning about pay rises, not enough time off, too much paperwork, BAe, Mr Hoon, poor leadership, lack of Family quarters, being posted abroad when the wife has just got a new job....then join the RAF...

However, If you want a rewarding and exciting career with lots of fun, some great people, great flying....then you should opt for Military (RN)

[tradewind]

The question is whether the dream is to 'fly' or whether it is to be a 'pilot'.

If you want quality flying, forget the airlines.

If you want the 'career' and are not bothered about quality flying, the two choices are much closer.

Or how about both if you are lucky enough!

[BEagle]

The MoD/CAA Joint Working Group came up with accreditation rights for those who wish to obtain a civil commercial licence later in their careers. This is a recruiting and retention incentive designed to attract those who wouldn't otherwise give the miliary a second look but would go direct to the airlines.

These accreditation criteria vary dpending on a/c and role experience; they are most generous (fairly obviously) for the ME world which does a lot of what an airline would do anyway! But a military career on helicopters would not equip the pilot in the same way; hence RW accreditation is nothing like as generous.

To get the best of both worlds:

1. Apply to the military. With any luck you might fly Typhoon or J35. If you are streamed ME, there are several new 'glass' types coming into service in a few years' time: A330MRTT, Nimrod MRA4, A400M to name but a few. If you are streamed RW, whilst it will give you some challenging and rewarding flying, it's not going to help your ultimate airline aspirations.

2. Stay in the military until you've achieved at least 2000 hours TT, of which 1000 is PIC and 500 P1 U/S. That will entitle you to the maximum licence credit - as an example, if you were a VC10 captain then you'd need a JAA Class 1 medical, to pass the Air Law exam and to fly an IR with a CAA mate on the jumpseat. Total cost around £800. Whereas an ab-initio civil student is looking at nearer £60000!

3. Leave at your ORD with a licence, small lump sum and a more or less guaranteed airline job.

Finally, your choice of RAF or RN (assuming FW flying) will probably depend most on your personal quality of life viewpoint.

[teeteringhead]

And I know it's been said so many times before (but that doesn't make it not true) ...

You just ain't comparing apples with apples ... Military aviation is just soooo different (not necessarily better - but different), and I'm not going to get diverted into discriminating between various uniforms/capbadges.

But - if you have to ask, you prolly don't have the 110% commitment the mil requires ... sure the military don't have a monopoly in screwing people's personal lives, but they are very good at it!

And there's always the "blank cheque you hope is never cashed...."

[Aerospace101]

Emphasis on 'Cyclic' Industry. I know we cant predict the industry, but if airlines are picking up now, will they be doing the same in 12 yrs time after you have completed your short service commission?

Is Multis more rewarding than Airlines? (take into account 1 yr at IOT and probably another 1-2 yrs holding!)

I seem to have gathered the views that;

If you want REAL FLYING you need to go MILITARY: FJ or ROTARY. Great lifestyle, young free and single - but that doesnt set you up well for Airlines later. But you have to put up with the lows, countless days in the crewroom, cutbacks, lack of equipment (working), war and possibility of watching your friends or yourself die for your country.
If you go MULTIS - you might just have well gone Commercial in the first place. If the flying is fairly similar, RAF lifestyle perhaps the best for a 20yr old! But you still have to put up with holding etc.....

Sure the Airlines Flying 'aint the real deal', but you get stability for family, better pay, better prospects of seniority, varied travel....

But my point is what would you do tomorrow? Regarding the current future of both industries.

[Training Risky]

I am not into bu66ery personally, but I would join the RN with the express intention of sneaking into totalwar's admin hole and cut the cord that links his PC to the internet (more specifically, this website).... and steal his paperclips.

[totalwar]

Thats cos your Buffoon in cognito.....

PS. How many RN aircrew applied to the RAF first but were turned down? A large proportion I'd wager
quick straw pole of the office (which consists of 6 pilots and 5 Observers, and a civvy)....

All wanted to join the RN. Not one of us had any inclinations to join the RAF as, as one guy put it "I wanted to join the military, and not become a civilian in uniform"....ooops

[airborne_artist]

All wanted to join the RN. Not one of us had any inclinations to join the RAF as, as one guy put it "I wanted to join the military, and not become a civilian in uniform"....ooops

The same was true 25 years ago when I joined the Andrew. Interestingly over 50% of the would-be fishheads at the time had applied for FAA and been turned down.

I'm not so sure about the RW route being a blight on one's civvy career - ask Arkroyal, Captain on a UK LCC, and another from his course who is a BA Captain.

[engineer(retard)]

From my limited experience of working with the FAA (mostly at Manadon) most of them had spent less time at sea than than the average tank commander. :O

[TurbineTooHot]

Totalwar.

What Does WAFU mean and why do my sub mates call you lot WAFUs?

Whose jets by the way?

TTH

[totalwar]

Women All Fancy Us (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69027&highlight=WAFU)

But dont like crabs (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73366&highlight=WAFU)

[BootFlap]

TTH

What Does WAFU mean and why do my sub mates call you lot WAFUs?

Wet And F*@king Useless!

Join the real Harrier Force, get to wear badges so smart they have a degree from Hull, get to fly single-seat with no whinging Nav/WSO/Observer wasting precious oxygen, don't have to worry about learning how to use those radar type devices, just blow stuff up!

chaffing and flaring as I egress!

:D

[Widger]

I'm just waiting for Divergent Phugoid! to vent his spleen.:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[teeteringhead]

I'm not going to get diverted into discriminating between various uniforms/capbadges oh well, at least I tried...:(

[TurbineTooHot]

BootFlap,

YES!

Turbine

[Training Risky]

Proposed motion: ban totalwar/hyd3failure from these boards, tie him up with a chain made from his own paperclips... and drop him in the ogsplosh.

Do I have a seconder?

[MATZ stub]

Motion seconded... what a LeathermanTM

[Training Risky]

Motion carried!:ok: :ok:

totalwar, d'you hear there? (take a hint)

[totalwar]

Thats because your arguments fall down at the first hurdle. Rather than trying to construct a cohesive and articulate argument to counter my arguments, you simply revert to standard RAF Officer tactics of swearing and crying.
"get rid of Totalwar" they cried...."we can't argue against him as his argument is too solid".

Hmmmppphhhhh

[sarmonkey]

Now, now..... let's not gang up on the Senior Service. Remember that they provide a valuable service by giving a home to all those that failed RAF selection (probably for not being able to spell 'poll'), thus ensuring that they don't turn to a life of crime and homelessness.

Who joins the Navy to fly?

The same sort of person who'd join the RAF to drive a boat....

Sippers, shippers?

[freeride]

If you go rotary you stand a very good chance of getting to the airlines and you will generally start with the same seniority as the peeps who wemt ME. The other advantage is that when the airline industry takes its next dive you stand a chance of a rotary job. Beagle has some good advice but you have to work round the stiff wing prejudices!