Least inappropriate or appealing engineering job?

[Genghis the Engineer]

This isn't an attempt to ressurect the Engineer .v. technician .v mechanic debate, but to poke fun at some of the idiots out there recruiting our profession(s), and some of the job specs and titles that they come up with.

So, which is the least appealing, or mis-stated job you can come across with "Engineer" in the job title? (Apart from whatever you are doing at the moment, that's cheating).

I'll kick off the debate with something from Flight's website today....

G

How much????? And where is it?
Job Title: Ingenieur Avionique-Radionavigation
Region: Finland
Company: Modis
Salary: £1 per hour
Position type: Contract
Posted: Friday 4 March 2005
Job type(s): Administration
Description: Notre client recherche un ingenieur avionique-radionavigation pour une mission dans le sud de la France.

Au sein du Bureau d'Etudes de la Direction AviationGenerale, dans le cadre du renforcement du pole de competences systemes radionavigation et software, votre poste consistera en l'analyse des architectures systemes etl 'integration des systemes avioniques.

Issu d'une ecole d'ingenieur enElectronique ou Aeronautique, vous justifiez d'une experience significative eavionique.

Vousmaitrisez les logiciels bureautiques et maitrisez imperativementl'anglais. Vous avez 5 annees d'experience dans ce domaine.



Oh and to follow up, a couple from the website of the UK job centre that I tracked down just to get the hackles up of anybody who has ever trained in Engineering, of any type.

Soo I need my own space shuttle, where do I land it in Maidstone?
Job TitleSATELLITE ENGINEER TUN/31341 LocationTUNBRIDGE WELLS, KENT Hours40 HOURS PER WEEK BETWEEN MONDAY-FRIDAY Wage£400 PER WEEK DurationPERMANENT

DescriptionMust have previous satellite installation experience. Own transport essential. Duties include installing and servicing boxes in private households. Immediate start. Weekend work available if required. Will be required to travel to Maidstone once a week to collect equipment. Self employed people are responsible for paying their own National Insurance Contributions and Tax. For information on how benefits may be affected, and whether entitlement may be lost, speak to a Jobcentre Plus Advisor

What, I get to be in charge of a whole door hinge?
Job TitleDOOR SPRING ENGINEER LYS/577 LocationLONDON Hours47.5 HOURS PER WEEK, MONDAY-FRIDAY, 7.30AM-5.30PM. Wage£8 - £10 PER HOUR (NEGOTIABLE) DurationPERMANENT

DescriptionMust be able to install, repair and maintain all types of door closures and associated hardware. Applicant must be experience, able to work with the minimum supervision. Must hold a current and clean driving licence.

Damned complicated things, fire extinguishers, to need a full time Engineer to maintain them !
Job TitleFIRE EXTINGUISHER ENGINEER CFB/88226 LocationCARDIFF, CANTON Hours35 HOURS PER WEEK MONDAY-FRIDAY 9AM-5PM Wage£5.00 PER HOUR + BONUSES DurationPERMANENT

DescriptionMust be aged 25+ for insurance purposes. Must be able to work under own initiative once training completed. Must have a full clean driving licence. Full training will be provided. Mainly for Cardiff and Newport area. Duties include servicing of fire appliances

[sparks and stuff]

Chuckle inside when I see people with job titles like "Sales Engineer" or even "Software Engineer" since these jobs have very little in the way of what I would consider to be Engineering in them!. Perhaps they could substitute developer or such instead. This would stop them diluting the very essence that makes me proud to call myself an Engineer.

[FunctionedSatis]

Ah yes the overuse of the word engineer!

Like the former recruitment (Human Resources) girl who became a Quality Engineer at my last airline. Fume!!

[wanty]

Don't forget the ultimate insult or degradation to our job title.

"Domestic Engineer". Otherwise known as a housewife. Sorry all,seriously not meant as an insult to housewives.

[Dr Illitout]

Whilst I was having my thinning hair cut , the barber informed me that on his days off he worked as a "Crowd control engineer". My blanker than normal look prompted him to say "Bouncer" at a night club!!!!!
Mind you insted of barber I should have said Hair control engineer?

Rgds Dr I

[glum]

Environmental health technician?

Binman.

[TURIN]

Ar*eh*le Engineer.

Sphincter Technician.

Rectum Mechanic.

:O

[Mr.Brown]

Ah but are "we" true engineers? Is troubleshooting, component replacement and routine maintanence an engineers job? If so does that make every car, truck and tractor mechanic and auto electricians, engineers. Who actually gives a Sh1t, we're all just trying to earn a living like everyone else.

[electron77]

Life Flight advertised for an apprentice "engineer" a few months ago, it should have been for an apprentice "cleaner". Life flight were absolutley hopeless in giving this poor apprentice a fair go and as a result have made the decision to terminate the apprenticeship after only a few months (very unfairly). Very Very Poor decision.

[Windy Militant]

Ermm I think not chaps. The term Engineer was originally applied to someone who tended an engine. In those dim and distant days this usually meant something big and nasty that knocked down walls. As this was usually acommpanied by hails of arrows and buckets of boiling oil, engineers usually tended to be big hairy chaps with large hammers and scorched eyebrows.

The affectation of Chartering engineers is a fairly modern thing although in days gone by many of the trades guilds were similarly chartered by royal appointment.

So from it's original derivation as some one who tended to engines then the appelation of engineer can be applied to many trades. I don't think that there were many trebuchet operators who had degrees.

Perhaps to save on confusion it might be better if the Academic world came up with a more suitable designation for those who do not wield hand tools to carry on their proffession.
Say Mechanical prognosticator or Aeronautical Adviso.

This would hopefully then stop people carping on about what they're called.

Dons nomex underpants, and climbs into the bunker!

[Genghis the Engineer]

Hard to disagree with you Windy, problem is we all think it's "our" title. In various places around the world I've been called "Engineer", "technician", "scientist", "boffin" and a few less polite terms. On the whole, "Boffin" is my favourite, except that nowadays it seems to be a term of abuse amongst teenagers to describe what I'd have known at that age as a "swot".

Let's face it, virtually none of us now do a job that would have been recognised as that of an "Engineer" 200 years ago.

Maybe we should just ban use of the word altogether, and we ALL have to find something else to call ourselves :} Alternatively, just keep adding words onto the left, "Chartered Engineer", "Research Technician Engineer", "Aircraft Maintenance Engineer" and protect those terms by law.

We'll never win will we!

Dr.G

[Windy Militant]

Alternatively, just keep adding words onto the left,

My now ex (thank heavens) line manager use to do that on a regular basis. The Numtyheaded underwater basket weaver ended up with such a large signature on his e-mail that the IT department pulled him up for wasting bandwidth. :rolleyes:

The Chief Engineer at the Establishment that I served my time as an apprentice used to roar at us sprogs at fairly frequent intervals ' Anybody who can't scrape a bearing or cut a keyway with a cold chisel has no business calling themselves a Mechanical Engineer'

I guess those days are well and truly gone! ;)

[Genghis the Engineer]

Out of interest, you weren't an apprentice at a certain now defunct aeronautical establishment just outside Swindon were you - now better known for Honda cars? If so, Genghis Sr. was an apprentice there, ending up in the DO designing bits of Attacker and Scimitar. It sounds faintly reminiscent of some of his tales.

G

[Windy Militant]

Hello Genghis,
No, I did my time at an establishment to the West that devoted most of it's time to lobbing highly expensive scrap at a great rate of knots into the Irish Sea.
I believe that Chief Engineers of a certain age had a standard phrase book with exhortations to encourage the green and cabbage like to greater things!
Myself I far prefer that syle and turn of phrase to the w*nk, ahem I mean buzz words of today. ;)

[Genghis the Engineer]

http://www.unitedmedia.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2091553050426.gif

[jb1007]

To be honest.....

The title of "Engineer" belongs to a Graduate from a University with a degree.

Airline Mechanics and other Technicians that call themselves "Engineers" actually piss me off!

The Airline Industry started with the title as Ground Engineer or Engineer due to the fact that a job such as a Flight Engineer were called a Flight Engineer...Instead of a Flight Mechanic or a Flight Technician.

Therefore the ground mechanics started calling themselves Ground Engineers!! To be even with the Flight Engineer??

If you are a Mechanic you are a Mechanic or at the most a Technician....but most definately not an Engineer.

It would be the same If a Nurse call himself a Doctor??:{ :{ :{ :{

[Windy Militant]

There's a certain Irony that for many years being classed as an Engineer condemned you to being part of the lower orders as being a Rude Mechanical was not considered to be a suitable position in life for a proper gentleman.

The term Engineer and Mechanic were for many years interchangeable and I belive in America railway locomotive drivers are still called engineers.
That is why aircraft engineers are called engineers because like ships engineers they tended the engines on the aeroplanes.

The degrees came later so whilst an engineer on the tools may not use the letters after his name he's still an engineer.

Oh yeah I have a friend who's a nurse who's got a Ph D which entitles her to be called Dr :p

[Megaton]

So why were they called Flight Engineers in the first place? Manipulating power levers, balancing fuel, monitoring and operating systems is an inappropriate role for an "Engineer." Personally, I felt that qualified engineers in the RAF made an excellent job of minimizing their qualifications and experience until they effectively talked themselves out of work. As Senior Engineers take on Contract Monitoring, I think that Service engineering is doomed....doomed I tell you!

[Genghis the Engineer]

The title of "Engineer" belongs to a Graduate from a University with a degree.
Well that's Brunel out for a start !

I'd say personally that the difference lies between those who just "do", and those who "think and do". A degree is one route into learning how to think and make decisions, but far from the only one. On the other hand a degree alone, certainly doesn't teach you how to "do" and a thinker alone is not yet an Engineer.

Why has this descended into yet another engineer .v. technician terminology debate?

G

[Windy Militant]

Ermm I think they need to broaden the sylabuses a bit to include some history. Early flight engineers had to decoke engines,lap valves, hand fit bearings, fix oil pipes and generally tend to the engines. People did fly before they had computers and jet engines don't ya Know! :ok:


Edited to add that as suggested above we've had this particular round robin several times before so I shall agree to disagree and that's an end to it.

[Mr.Brown]

Dictionary Quote:
"Engineer: A person trained in any branch of the profession of engineering"
"Engineering: the profession of applying scientific principles to the design, construction, and maintenance of engines, cars, machines, buildings, bridges, roads,and communication systems."
"Aeronautical Engineering: the branch of engineering concerned with the design, production and maintanence of aircraft."

:ok:

[Aeronut]

Never mind the wrangling over definition of engineer - what about the title of this thread -

do you mean MOST INappropriate or LEAST Appropriate?

<PEDANT MODE OFF>

[Genghis the Engineer]

Problem is, you spot these things but the system won't let you go back and change the thread title before anybody notices!

G

[Aeronut]

I'm sorrry Genghis - didn't mean to be a smartass - I'm just impressed that some of your attention to detail is rubbing off on me ;)

edited to correct spelling of Genghis - which is ironic given the subject of my last posts - that'll learn me!

[NorthSeaTiger]

Well the way I look at is ok an Engineer is a Uni garduate, you cant get your Licensce by going to Uni and the course time is about the same if not longer and at the end you get your ticket which is to degree level so I'd say a Licensced guy is an Engineer and if you look at the CAA issued document I think you'll find it Says AMEL, Aircraft Maintenance ENGINEERS Licensce.

But as someone has said already who cares what your called your'e only doing it to make ends meet. ;)

Regards NST

[Genghis the Engineer]

Aaarrghhhh!

Emailed to me today by one of these ****ing agencies who don't bother to train their staff in anything to do with the professions that they are trying to recruit for!


Description
Master-Plan Systems Ltd is currently in its eleventh year of trading and has built up an enviable reputation as a successful and established supplier of colour/mono photocopiers, plan printers and digital products. We offer a service which is both efficient and professional to our customers within Yorkshire and the surrounding areas.

Photocopier Service Engineer

We are currently looking for an experienced Photocopier Engineer to join our existing service department and develop a career within this forward thinking, progressive company.

The ideal candidate will have experience with a broad range of mono/colour digital machines, in particular; Panasonic, Konica, Minolta, Oki, Kyocera Mita and Ricoh products.
We are able to provide full manufacturers training if and when required, with extensive technical support.

Package includes a highly competitive salary (based on experience) laptop computer and mobile phone, plus company vehicle and generous sales bonus scheme.

[Krystal n chips]

From my local rag---the position on offer is a Tech Sales Co-ordinator--the usual c££p about single minded, target orientated--and of course a "team player"---slight contradiction here methinks re the previous criteria--however--the next bit reads:

" This position will have total aerospace concentration"

"It's the English language Jim, bit not as we know it"--apologies to all Star Trek fans for using this quote to define the garbage in the advert---but I would love to know what, exactly, "total aerospace concentration" actually means. :confused: :yuk:

[barit1]

...if you look at the CAA issued document I think you'll find it Says AMEL, Aircraft Maintenance ENGINEERS Licensce.

...and on the other side of the pond, a pilot's certificate from FAA may say AMEL (Airplane, Multi-Engine, Land).