Cathay hiring Flight Crew Relations Manager

[Check 6]

Cathay Pacific Airways
Company Information
Date: January 09,2002
Contact Name: Tony Penny Flt. Ops.
Address: 3/F South Tower 8 Scenic Road
City: Lantau

Country: HONG_KONG SPECIAL ADMINISTRATIVE REAGION
Telephone: 2-747-5000
Fax: 852 27472844

Job Information

Join the Team Share the Dream. Flight Crew Relations Manager Broaden your communication and management expertise. As a Flight Crew Relations Manager you will have an opportunity to provide consultative support to the Chief Pilot Fleet to facilitate communication and the management and enhancement of Flight Crew relations in the Flight Operations Department Fleet Office. This will involve supporting and advising the Operational Management team in relation to crew performance and career progression. Utilising your interpersonal and communication skills you will have regular contact with new and existing crew to discuss their individual circumstances and career path In addition you will participate in the New Pilot Applicant recruitment process. To be successful you should have between ten to fifteen years related aviation experience and at least three to four years tertiary education or specialised training or equivalent. An in*depth knowledge of a relevant technical or functional aviation field such as Flight Operations or Human Resources management is essential. Whilst demonstrating empathy with and an understanding of the needs of the Flight Crew you will also apply your problem solving skills to various issues in order to remain sensitive to established lines of management authority. As you will work independently with minimal administrative support and supervision we value your ability to multi*task and work under pressure. TO APPLY Please send your confidential resumé with current and expected salaries to The Personnel Manager HKG Ground Staff FI02012002. Or fax. Please note the closing date for applications is 18 January 2002. Personal data provided by job applicants will be used strictly in accordance with our personal data policy and for recruitment purposes only. Candidates not notified within 8 weeks can consider their application unsuccessful and all related information will be kept on our files for 12 months. A copy of our Personal Information Collection Statement can be provided upon request by contacting our Data Protection Officer at the above address. We are an Equal Opportunities Employer. Join the team that has made Hong Kong's own airline an international leader in the aviation industry. With expansion plans well underway we are looking for talented people who are smart, dynamic, enthusiastic, and keen to share our dreams and realise their own. Join the team Share the dream Same Team Same Dream. <a href="http://www.cathaypacific.com" target="_blank">www.cathaypacific.com</a>

[ipanema]

What kind of money might this job be worth? And how long is it likely to last?

I thought of going after it, but I can see the rest of my flying career going down the drain, along with the respect of my fellow pilots.

I feel safe in assuming that the cost of living in HK is no small factor, either.

Any volunteers for cost of living, reasonable salary, likelihood survival term?? <img src="redface.gif" border="0">

[Kubota]

You would have to understand that having "pilot" on your resume for this placement would be the industrial equivalent of telling your fiancee' that you had crabs...

Longevity for the successful applicant? One year, tops.

[411A]

If he could get the "malcontents" to wise up, he just might just last a bit longer.
Wonder if the position comes with a large number of management supplied pink slips?
According to the SCMP, CX has "too many pilots".

[Kubota]

[quote]too many pilots <hr></blockquote>?

[quote]"HK IN TALKS ON 600,000 NEW CATHAY PASSENGERS" (HK IMAIL) -

Hong Kong and United States government negotiators will meet next week for the first time since last July to discuss a new air services agreement covering passenger and cargo flights across the Pacific.
At the centre of the discussions is a codeshare deal between Cathay Pacific Airways and American Airlines that could boost the number of US destinations open to Hong Kong's de facto flag carrier from eight to 40. Cathay would not comment on the latest talks, but previously it said the codeshare would add an extra 600,000 passengers a year to its trans-Pacific services. Possible new destinations include Dallas-Fort Worth, Houston, San Diego, Denver, Detroit, New Orleans, Las Vegas and St Louis.
Despite next week's discussions, industry insiders ruled out any immediate breakthrough in the talks which have been taking place on and off for two years<hr></blockquote>

85268, you haven't a clue. Personally, I have my doubts as to whether you are a pilot at all.

The AOA MAYnot be in a strong position, but even the pro-business Hong Kong press is seeing through Cathay's lies.

[ipanema]

So, assuming a year of "having crabs" and knowing the cost of living in HK, what's the position worth?

[Obscurum per obscurius]

With all due respect ipanema judging by your posts I don't think you have the right temperament for the job.
I imagine the job would need someone with a little less of his own baggage and one or two less chips on his shoulder. Still maybe the aoa will have you...

[ipanema]

???????????

Sorry, dude, you lost me there. You must be looking at the wrong posts!! :)

[ 15 January 2002: Message edited by: ipanema ]</p>

[ipanema]

RTFQ = 1/2 TFA.

Read the question, FrankG. It's aimed at finding out what a reasonable wage would be in HK, given that it probably would not last very long, AND is in a VERY high-cost area (where I have never been).

Nowhere have I asked about the job itself... that's pretty easy for me to figure out for myself.

So do you actually have anything positive to contribute?

[ 15 January 2002: Message edited by: ipanema ]</p>

[411A]

If "the talks" have BEEN going on for two years....in maybe another two will an agreement be reached.
In the meantime....the AOA rushes over that cliff edge...leaving only an echo behind.
CX management does not seem to be the least bit concerned....and why should they?

[christep]

frankg: I think I should qualify your comments by offering a comparison... in the telecoms business where I work only the very top guy (running a US$50M business) would get HK$100K per month plus housing, schools, etc. A very good sales engineer / team leader with 10+ years experience on a local contract would get about HK$75K TOTAL, and would reasonably comfortably support a family of four on that. Note that the tax rate is at worst 15% flat.

And there are very many people who like HK very much as a location, myself included (I am from the UK originally). Much of it has a very cosmopolitan feel, there is a great range of food and nightlife (well, OK, a bit light on decent music), and some wonderful hiking and countryside.

[Snake Hips]

You can also go into a cafe without a fear of being machine gunned by some raving loony! In fact I would suggest it is about the safest major city in the world?
Air quality sucks in the winter.
You can park your car without anyone scraping a key down the paint work although the car.
Some GREAT destinations within 2/3 hours flying.
Climate Sep-Jan/Feb really not bad at all.
Travel benefits-you decide; They work for me and
most of my ground type colleagues.
Good luck

[ipanema]

I would imagine that "HK$100K per month plus housing, schools, etc." works out to be quite a bit more than HK$100K per month - with the added perks that take-home (before tax) could well be worth quite a bit more.

I don't know for sure, but I would imagine housing is a major item. What else? Company car? Elongated vacation? Full passage (1st class?) home once a year for the family?

And isn't an airline like CX much more than a $50M business? The investment and cash flow that must be involved boggles the mind!

But it all adds up. I'm looking at what I might ask for to cover the whole enchilada - or maybe I should ask CX to cover some of the expenses to save me the details.

Along these lines does CX own/have investments in any hotels/motels/apartments/real estate/other? How about car rentals?

But some numbers are appearing, and that's what I was looking for. For that I am grateful - thank you. :)

[Snake Hips]

I would imagine job level C (middle manager). A=Check-in Agent, E=General Manager. You should expect: -
3 year contract -
Ex-pat Terms - Salary iro HK$65K/mth starting. Talk of $100K per month nonsense. If level D
then maybe a bit more.
13th month and profit share if you are lucky.
End of contract gratuity at 15% gross basic pay.
Medical.
Housing HK$24 cash or HK$40K allowance with no
staff contribution. Above this you pay 8% of
total above $62K you pay 12%.
Travel.
Leisure - Unlimited EYCL and Biz class ID90. Some
FRCL ID90. Annual Free for you and family I think in biz class but not 100% sure. Interline after 6 months.
Duty - Biz class.
Car - Ha ha! We all wish.

CX owns interests only in aviation related stuff but largest single shareholder who has the CX management contract, John Swire and Sons, into
everything. Global holdings.

Housing. Tiny apartment middle of nowhere $10,000/month, House in rural area $40K-60K/month.

Don't know what your background is but this is not the happiest of departments within the airline.

[christep]

My point about the US$50M business was that at HK$100K/month + lots of benefits you would be the CEO with full P&L responsibility. Until recently I had P&L responsibility for a US$200M chunk of my employer's business and my expat contract in HK is about the same as SnakeHips suggests for a middle-ranking HR job in CX. <img src="frown.gif" border="0">

Clearly I'm in the wrong business, and I'm beginning to understand why people want to work for Cathay!

[spannersatcx]

HKGpax, or you could read it another way - like some people don't know when they are actually well paid! :)
(sits back and waits to be shot at!)

[raitfaiter]

Or....it shows how much you have to pay to get anyone with any expertise to join a crap company like CX.......(or Haeco....) <img src="tongue.gif" border="0"> :) <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

[Snake Hips]

Actually a terrific company going though some difficult times with a particular group of the workforce. Can't comment on Haeco.

[raitfaiter]

oh, you mean the cabin crew that were forced to back down by rod?...or the ground staff (2000) sacked by turnbull in a major profit year....or the ground engineers sacked en mass by haeco....even the little guy who used to cycle round cleaning the oleos has gone! <img src="tongue.gif" border="0"> <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

[Snake Hips]

So what you actually mean is crap management? I
actually resent being told I work for a 'crap company'. I don't. I work for a quality airline
that has some seriously difficult issues which, hopefully, will be resolved. I work with some
great people, many of whom have a real pride in working for the organisation. Yes, the gravy train disappeared some time ago, especially for expats (I am one) but it was always going to happen. Enjoy your retirement.
SH

[christep]

Snakehips: I can't comment on whether it's a good company to work for, but my point was that the package you quote seems to me to be pretty damn good for what appears to be a mid-level management position. I can't imagine what it must have been like when the gravy train was still here!

By the way, you don't have a vacancy for a telecoms manager for Cathay City do you? <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[Kubota]

We need:

IT Managers, IT maNagers, IT manaGers, IT manageRs, It managers...

It's controlled chaos.

[Snake Hips]

HKGpax
My response was really to Lego land or whatever the name is. Have a good weekend!

[middlepath]

I am surprised to see the job discription as to facilitate communication to chief pilot,management at cx rarely communicate with employees.

[raitfaiter]

Thunderthighs, sorry Snake Hips.....If its sooo great, great people etc etc why is there noone they trust to promote from within for this job?......... <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">