Forming A Pilot Database?

[VFE]

Hi folks,

For those of us seeking that first flying job would it not be beyond the boundries of possibility to form a database of names and give ourselves a recognisable working title such as 'Allied Trainee Pilot Association' or some such? This could be used as a list of those seeking work which could also in time be extended to linking those going through their training. Not exactly an official union but a tenious link between us all working to assist both applicants and recruiters which at present does not exist except for this forum.

One of the things that struck me during my training was the lack of unity amongst student pilots but more importantly the absence of a dedicated system to locate work. This industry, as we all know, is extremely difficult to enter and no organisation appears in place to link the job seeker and the employer together apart from those interested in providing further training and subsequent placement.

In time, the airline recruiters could find themselves free from countless unsolicited CV's and be free to access a current resource rather than have this ridiculous charade in existance whereby we all post aimless begging letters into the post for non existant jobs! If anything it would tidy up an extremely unproffessional and embarrasing aspect of this industry.

Pilots could be grouped in terms of flying experience, age, location, availability and other pertinent groupings based on the recruiters primary requirements.... Obviously this would need to be a non-profit making trial concept offering airlines and flying companies nothing but names based on information provided to the database.

Has anyone here got any reasons why this idea could never work nor in time become more recognised? Has anyone ever tried it before? Is anyone bothered? Is anyone interested in helping to form it?

Please post all thoughts.

VFE.

[BigGrecian]

Surely BALPA meets the majority of the above already?

And as regards to forwarding names etc to airlines. Why would the airlines approach an organisation when they have hundreds of people's CVs? Additionally - how would you maintain the standard of pilot's within the organisation etc....

Idea is good in principle but I'm not sure about the practicalities.

[VFE]

Thanks for your response BigGrecian.

180 views and one reply - I guess that answers the last two questions of my initial post! :}

As far as I'm aware BALPA offer membership to student pilots for a subscription fee whereas this used to be free (changed policy begining of 2002) and precisely what benefits are offered to students are unclear from what I can understand. Does anyone know if their legal contacts have been used in a case where a student was being unfairly treated by an FTO for example? From my experience most students don't bother with BALPA but that may simply be because they are unaware of it's services to students.

Regarding the standard of those names provided to an airline, this would obviously remain the responsibility of the airline as it always has and always should. They are the ones paying the wages and therefore have a high vested interest in assessing applicants suitability for the position. Surely a legal disclaimer would clarify this and remove any doubt regarding repercussions for the providors of a possible applicant?

Good question regarding airlines approaching an organisation when they have CV's in their files. This is obviously something which one hopes could change given time. Many airlines are aware that a CV they recieved last week may not still be valid (the sender may now have a job!) and that the most recent are the more likely viable applicants. I know of one regional airline who required 5 first officers last year and from the 40 odd applications recieved that week alone, only 2 were possibilities for interview. Following further sifting through previous weeks applications it became harder to find someone who was suitable enough to call for interview or who was actually still available! This must be a time consuming part of recruitment for them. How eaiser would it be for them to contact an agency and request the latest name that fulfills their criteria?

It would be interesting to hear what any of the management contributors to PPRuNe think about this idea. Obviously all this would take time and procedures would need reassessing within the airline but in theory it might be worth it, no? On PPRuNe we often read how unsolicited CV's cause nuisance within airlines. As jobs come and go within hours so too do the potential suitable applicants. To my mind it seems like an idea that might benefit both camps.

VFE.

[Kerropi]

To make this work I guess you'l have to write letters to the all the FTO's in Europe
to ask if their recent ex graduates who don't have a job yet wants to participate in such
a database. Otherwise I think it will be worthless.

If an airline does look into this Database what would the airline benefit from? They
already have tons of CV where they can choose from. In this case all wannabees/gonnabees
will have to be united to able to stand strong!!!!!

What are the benifits to us for forming this Database??
1. At least I will know how many people are looking for a flying Job
2. I am on a list where airlines can look at
3. More contacts to have for more information concerning the latest recruitment news.

I would like to know more people like me who are also looking for jobs so that we maybe can
swap ideas (or a shoulder to cry one when you are so frustrated because you aren't able to
find a job).

PS: If i am talking S**T or yo don't know what I am trying to say please forgive me!!! I am working on my english :)

[rjay259]

VFE

I think that it would be a very good idea, even if it was to give just a little ray of hope, and if all invovled were to take part it would as Kerropi has said provide "a shoulder to cry on".

Dont agencies do this job already, i know they only really like those with type ratings and at least 500 hrs on type, are the airlines going to look at this data base of low hour guy's.

If it starts I will be one of the first to put my name down and I know a few others who would as well.

Good luck and let me know if i can help.

259.

[Kerropi]

VFE

I am also willing to help. for example Maybe to contact flying schools in Netherlands and license holder via dutch pilot forums or small amount of cost (like stamps/telephone calls :))


Do you only want to target people living in UK? or people in europe with a JAA license? or all wannabee license holders in the world?.

K.

[GoldenMonkey]

Hello VFE

I also like the idea of this. I currently work in IT and am in the painful closing stages of acquiring my fATPL. i.e. the IR.
Anyway, I am fully aware of the uphill battle required at this next stage and think your idea is quite positive.
I am also prepared to offer my technical IT skills with regards to setting up a database and maybe putting a web front end on it.
PM me if you want any further help.

Cheers

GoldenMonkey

[VFE]

Thanks for the replies folks. To address some of the points raised.....

Firstly, the question regarding airlines approaching an agency when they already have CV's on file. As I posted yesterday the CV's an airline has on file are out of date. The airline is unaware if the applicant is still available without making enquiries. A positive aspect of a current database is that names and information is pertinent to the airlines requirements. To remain current a good agency could make it the duty of the person wishing to be included on the list to update their status weekly - if you want to be included then let us know each week - kind of deal.....

Not sure if any agencies exist to help unemployed pilots but if someone has information to the contrary then please post it. One imagines that should such an agency exist it would probably be profit making and serving the more experienced pilot but this is simply an assumption.

From the inception a free database would be much easier to administer if it was limited to the UK. This is purely for time and organisational reasons. The time and effort involved in setting up something so ambitious would be stretched unless the primary task was limited within a specific field. If the project gained support then in the future it could possibly expand further afield but the primary aim is to make it a non-profit making and non subscription charging simple database of prospective pilots available and seeking work which would be forwarded to airlines at the request of the airline following a circular outlining the motive of the project.

One possible problem that has occured to me given extra thought: those who undertake such a project will be faced with a difficult problem once they enter flying employment - who's going to continue collating the database?! Perhaps issues such as this are more important at the planning stages? However, the help already offered is encouraging and we'll see how this thread pans out over the next few days before making any in-roads.

For now, please keep the thoughts coming and if anyone within airline management could comment based on what they have read so far then we'd very much appreciate it.

Regards,

VFE.

[Dusty_B]

VFE: Check your PMs!

[ATP_Al]

Sounds like a great idea - another advantage would be that we track the progress of pilots from initial qualification to employment and finally get some real statistics on the job market!

Al

[timzsta]

It sounds like a decent idea, but however you do it you will incur some overheads I feel.

Perhaps a one off subscrition charge a little like friendsreunited had at the start.

You obviously have a website which you could have banners on like PPRUNE for various companies to advertise as another way of raising the revenue you need to keep the thing running.

As to who is going to run the thing long term how about keeping it in house so to speak. Once those who started it find employment their replacements are the next in the food chain - ie you need to be an out of work fATPL or in the process of getting one, to work for the organisation. This would provide employment for a few out of work people, with the added bonus of allowing them to keep in touch with the industry.

[VFE]

Thanks for the replies (and PM's).

Seems the idea might have more support than I first imagined. The prospect of encountering further financial burdon is slightly worrying to be honest but as has been suggested by Timzsta - any financial costs could be offset in other ways.

It seems quite positive for now that people are coming forward to offer help and advice (and I shall respond individually to the PM's later tonight) so we'll see what other responses appear and later start thinking about a plan of action.

Being perfectly honest now, should this idea take off it will probably be a learn-as-you-go exercise for me in particular and every idea and offer of assistance shall be utilised! There will doubtless be financial regulations to adhere to and authorties to answer to should the idea of subscriptions be actualised but we'll cross that bridge if and when......

Should also add that I'm aware of the strict rules regarding business issues on PPRuNe so it's important that I stress this would not be a profit making idea should money become a factor in establishing the database.

Please keep the ideas and opinions coming for now and once again if anyone is in a position of influence within an airline they are encouraged to offer their thoughts on this idea, either here on the forum, or if they'd prefer through the private messaging system.

Regards,

VFE.

[timzsta]

Remember just because your company is non-profit making it does not mean it cannot charge a subscription fee for membership etc.

My flying club is members owned - its non-profit making. That doesn't mean its free to fly our aircraft!! All the profit we make goes back into the club to improve our facilities, lease better aircraft or subsidise flying for events like spot landing competitions, night flying evenings and club flyouts.

[julien1763]

I'm very interested too, as I'm training to gain my atpl written papers!
Let me know when you start it!
Bye