3000 over 2 at QF

[Lodown]

A report in The Australian online indicates QF plans on axing 3000 jobs over the next 2 years.

Here's the link... (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,12406908%255E1702,00.html)

What's the goss? These sound like desparate measures in juxtaposition with the profit scorecard.

[Sunfish]

Outsourcing and so on. Oh my!

I think we will watch Dixon outsource and sell off the wrong bits which chould be interesting.

IT outsourcing is not very smart for a start.

Neither is outsourcing anything that helps define your brand.

But the really interesting bit is what happens when someone takes the battered and rusty wrecked Holden you thought you sold them, polishes it and fiddles a little and voila! A brand new Mercedes appears from underneath!

Luckily I was on the "right" side of that deal! Its very embarassing for the management who sold it to you for tuppence.

[numbskull]

Its just another load of scaremongering from the QF bulls@#$ machine. They just keep putting out this trash to scare employees to take inferior pay and conditions.

Sooner or later one union will take them on for years of substandard pay increases or wage freeze that they have been offering. All employees have given years of productivity improvements and that has all flowed to the company bottom line.Surely EVERYONE doesn't think it was just the sheer genius of Geoff Dixon,35000 employees must have played some part!!

Well your reward is cop more of the same or we will sack you!!!

Personally I'd love to put on a stink and call their bluff. If they decided to send my job to China or wherever the cheapest option is then go ahead. You'll probably be doing me a favour. The world will still turn!! Maybe GD could get 50 or so Chinese/Thai/Indian children to sing "I Still Call Australia Home"- they'd probably do it cheaper too!!

I learnt as a 10 yr old to stand up to bullies and when it all boils down to it that is all that GD is. OK we had to tighten the ship a bit post Sep 11 and SARS,and we did, but QF will post around $1 billion dollars profit this year.

At some point you have to have some self respect and stand up for yourself. GD, Margaret Jackson,James Packer, Trevor Kennedy etc weren't shy in putting there hand out!!

Well I say bring it on!! I just hope my union colleagues/leaders also have balls-momentum is definitely gathering!!

I too have a Sydney sized mortgage and a family to feed but if we let this megalomaniac continually walk all over us then we will find the QF workforce will be a very disgruntled/ pathetic/ unmotivated/ unhappy lot.(Did someone mention customer service???)

[Buster Hyman]

we will find the QF workforce will be a very disgruntled/ pathetic/ unmotivated/ unhappy lot
You're kidding right? Since when has it not been like that?:eek:

[numbskull]

It may seem that way if you constantly read this forum but in reality the silent majority just keep doing their best under trying conditions. I'm sure this goes for pilots, flight attendants, LAMES, check in staff, office staff etc.

Sooner or later a union will stand up and say GET STUFFED!!

Unions will realise that they exist to protect workers rights and if they can't do that then they may as well not exist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[The Enema Bandit]

Now hold on. Would I be correct in saying that if they get rid of three thousand that will only leave managers in the place won't it? And who will they then be able to sack to get their bonus's then?

[regitaekilthgiwt]

Very well said numbskull.

Hopefully in this "review of its operations" Qantas sees that it is employing far too many managers and as everyone of em seems to be screwing everyone else for a cent it is having a DEFINITE impact on the front line i.e. the product that the passengers see and experience.
Perhaps if this review meant getting rid of some of the more useless 'managers' (and some may say they are all useless, but alas I am sure some do a job) and getting some more troops on the front line then the product might actually improve.
For instance I was in the luggage ‘services’ at SIT the other day and the one guy working there was doing the phones (for the people who were ringing the 'hotline' number re lost luggage (there had been people on hold for as long as 52 minutes) as well as handling all the customers coming through the door, and not just Qantas passengers, all airlines. It was ridicules. He said one person had gone sick, but so what?-get someone else in. All it made me think was what hope have we got? What sort of gallah was in charge to make it possible? If they can stuff up something as easy as the correct numbers for a simple office (i.e. probably more than 1 handling all that work) then I would hate to see how other parts of the business are run. And typical of what has been said before of most Qf employees, he was doing he best to hold Qantas’s image up and I must say was doing quite a good job in what was an impossible situation he should not have been placed in.

[Sunfish]

R, I respectfully suggest that in any reorganisation and rationalisation, the number of managers will actually INCREASE! Who do you think is going to "manage" the contracts with the new suppliers? The tooth fairy?

[126.7]

With regards to QF or DJ for that matter, how will Howards Industrial Relations effect the outcome of job shedding and sub-standard EBA's? I am wondering whether or not as soon as the senate passes the bill that QF will have a green light to achieve their goals.

[the lost one]

i could not of had said it better numbskull.-- all i could say is bring on the VR ..last one to leave- turn the lights out.

[Don Esson]

The only was to get rid of dead wood and time-servers is to be ruthless, go for the jugular and simply get rid of all non-performers. From my experience, voluntary separation allows bright people get an undeserved handout and shoot through to another well paid job, or even return as contractors or highly paid executives (as many ex Australian Airlines TN staff manged to do). Poor performers etc. will not easily find employment elsewhere and so plod along and hold an organisation back. For once, Qantas must go straight to compulsory redundancies if it is to work and do smarter with less.

[BUNYA]

Great name mate...

"As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions.,"

[argusmoon]

CR is just a little(read alot) more expensive and complicated to offer than VR.Also a lot harder to justify when you are making an enormous profit.

[Don Esson]

Here it is:

Qantas said today there was no definitive figure for possible redundancies as a result of its ongoing and extensive restructuring across all areas of the company.

The Chief Executive Office of Qantas, Geoff Dixon, said Qantas - like all airlines - was involved in ongoing workplace and operational change to meet the challenges facing aviation worldwide.

Mr Dixon said that despite its credible level of recent profitability, Qantas had no option but to continue the change program it had been implementing in recent years.

"Two weeks ago, when reporting the Qantas half-year results, we announced a review of all processes and activities across the Qantas Group that would take at least three months," Mr Dixon said.

"It has been this willingness by the company to confront deeply embedded inefficiencies that has provided Qantas with the means for substantial investment in aircraft and product and significant employment growth.

"Qantas has added 7,500 jobs over the past six years while most airlines have been undertaking massive downsizing."

Mr Dixon said it was inevitable that existing efficiency programs and the process review outlined at Qantas' half-year results announcement would result in further change.

"This could involve some redundancies, some relocation of activities - not necessarily offshore - and a change in emphasis in the direction of some areas of the company. It could also involve new jobs and greater opportunities in other areas," he said.

"We do not have a redundancy target in any area - we have a commitment to ensure the competitive future of Qantas. What we do have is a record of employing and training Australians in many key disciplines."

Qantas currently employs about 38,500 people including more than 35,000 in Australia.

Mr Dixon said Qantas was consulting, and would continue to consult, extensively with its people over proposed future changes.

He said that despite some misinformed views to the contrary, Qantas received no Government support in an industry rife with Government ownership, subsidies and extensive protection.

--------------------------------------------------

GD's statement about subsidies is clearly incorrect. How much in Govt handouts has its subsidiaries Jetstar, Jetstar Asia and Australian Airlines received?

[Ultralights]

sounds like what i read a few days before the V(C)R forms were pushed under my nose!

record profits (and bonuses) but sorry, we are facing hard times, we have to let you go!


sad thing was seeing good hard working and skilled tradesmen complaining when they didnt get the VR, (being a delegate guaranteed me a spot)


and they have the hide to ring me up, 6 months later and ask if i want to come back! :*

this finacial years "record profit" will be in direct relation to this years cost cutting! instead of saving an extra $500, Million, how about finding a way to MAKE an extra$500 Million ?????

no wonder i feel ashamed to admit i actually gave 11 yrs of my life to that company.

[the lost one]

in ref to numbskull's rant

as aqf line maint LAME --it pains me to think the direction this company is headed in --to spend 3.5bill $+ and then some--- on new gen aircraft yet not provide enough money to supt them properly ie tooling,work stands,LAME TRAINING AND SPARE'S and maintain them on line._you would think they management ,would do everything they can to support/keep these aircraft flying so they can make money--which in turn keeps our wonderfull shareholders happy--and we got to keep those shareholders happy.yet when you confront management about this -what do they reply with-we don't have any money-- FORCAST 750MIL$+ 04-05 profit--
we must trim more fat --3000 to go over 2 years- when will this madness end. we are already running a lean operation.
numbskull got it right: there are many people in this company pilots,fa's,csa staff LAME'S etc etc doing there best while the situation around them worsen's-- yet management want to know why staff are not happy/ .
sell of asset's close down maintenance-- you do not want to contract out-go down the the path selling off operational area's of the company -you don't want to loose day to day control of those assest's --anyone remember the- VALUEAIR DC9 - a good old 3rd party contractor maintenance company fixed those poor soul's right up.

call me disatisfied; call me what you want; -but when i started at qf 15 years ago as a 16 year old apprentice bright eyed,straight out of school and proud to be working for qf-living a childhood dream to be working in avation on aircraft.
- i just can't see a future in it any more.-
yeh i still bust my balls at work in all weather at all hours ,-morning noon and night when i'm doing this i could not give a **** about the company . i do it for the travelling public.yes i still do care about them and there safety,my profession and my self i lov what i'm doing.

sadly i have had enough --pls bring on the VR i want out --with the golden handshake while its still on the table

end of rant.

[numbskull]

I think what angers me most is not that there will be more redundancies despite a forecast profit of around $1 billion pretax-life goes on.

It is the fact that Geoff Dixon and the board can get HUGE pay increases in the vicinity of 60 % while the front line troops have to beg and scrape for their measly 3%. I know its an exageration to say it harks back to the days of Oliver Twist- "please Sir, can I have some more?" but its not far from it!!!!!!!

An ignoramus- and lets face it the public are when it comes to air travel- must think that all QF workers are lazy and overpaid and the good results from QF are all due to good management. God it makes me sick!!

[Sunfish]

With the greatest respect. It appears that your troubles are shared by European, Asian, Middle Eastern and American airlines as well.

One wonders if concerted action by all concerned, shutting down global air transport for a few days might get peoples attention?

Of course the organisation of such an event might be beyond the aviation community.

The message would have to be very very simple, perhaps "airlines are putting profits before safety and we aren't going to take it anymore".

The alternative is to wait for big smoking holes in the ground courtesy of someone like Ryanair management.

[Ultralights]

and the big irony, the QF share price has Gone NOWHERE! dispite record profits, record cost cutting.

to me it looks like the market can see straight through the dixon plan. Note to dixon, your shareholders arnt THAT stupid! they can see whats happening, and thats why the shareprice has remained static for the past 3 yrs!! (how have you increased revenue per share?)

[Eastwest Loco]

The thing that scares me about the constant cutting is getting into the same coffin corner that Pan Am found itself in 25 years ago.

The beancounters decided that regular and correct maintaining of aeroplanes was too high in cost and forced staff at threat of their jobs into shortcutting. This came to a head when a PA 732 was impounded by the FAA after operating 5 sectors with both turbines U/S dueto not developing minimum allowable power. I guess a crew member advised them on the sly to save his own butt.

I am not for a second saying this is happening now, but the way things are going - wtch for it and drop them in the deep end if they try it.

Personal experience over staff safety and fiscal balance is something I have experienced at TN, and quite a few of the "hush it up" kings are still on the chessboard. Trust noone - fill in the forms.

Best regards

EWL

[Keg]

Given your comments in recent times about QF and it's management Sunfish, I thought you may be interested in this article on news.com.au


The hidden world of psychopaths
By Samantha Baden

March 02, 2005
From: AAP

THEY are callous, egotistic and destroy their victims, but serial killers and rapists are not the only type of psychopaths. In fact, you could be working with one.

Criminologist John Clarke, a consulting profiler for NSW Police, said most psychopaths were not homicidal maniacs, but worked and lived unchallenged in society.
He has written a book about his work as a consultant to corporations who call on him to deal with workers who create problems in their organisations because they exhibit psychopathic traits.

His book, Working with Monsters, identifies the psychological tendencies of the workplace psychopath.

Advertisement:
Like their violent counterparts they are superficially charming, have a grandiose sense of self-worth, a need for excitement, and are pathological liars.

"They have an absolute lack of remorse, a lack of guilt for what they do," Mr Clarke said.

"It's a parasitic lifestyle, they live off other people, take credit for other people's work, ... have a sense of entitlement, are very narcissistic and often exhibit promiscuous sexual behaviour."

It is not exactly known how psychopaths come to be, but most authorities agree that it is a combination of genes, biology and the environment that produce the psychopathy syndrome, or cluster of behaviours.

There are different types of workplace psychopaths, but for some of them the main objective is to get to the top of an organisation for the financial rewards and power it brings, according to Mr Clarke.

Their second aim is to revel in the suffering and misery they exert on people.

They can also be corporate fraudsters who steal from their organisation by being brilliant con artists, or they can use their jobs to act out their psychopathic tendencies on people.

"Just incidentally, the workplace psychopath is very nice to talk to. Very, very nice," Mr Clarke said.

"Out of all the killers and rapists and everyone, the workplace psychopath is the most interesting."

This is because they are extremely clever and have very good verbal skills.

But workplace psychopaths have a devastating affect on corporations and co-workers.

"For the people they work with, who they actually victimise, it's absolutely devastating, (and causes) anxiety disorders, depression, heart problems, relationship problems and stress beyond belief," Mr Clarke said.

In the beginning, a corporation may value the psychopath because they attain success at any cost.

But they over-promise and cannot deliver and eventually customers get frustrated and take their business elsewhere.

"It costs the corporation money," he said.

It is estimated that between 1 and 3 per cent of the adult male population and between 0.5 and one per cent of the adult female population are psychopaths.

"It's a small proportion of the population, but the damage they do is out of all proportion to how many there are," Mr Clarke said.

"Everywhere they go they affect people's lives and they will con and manipulate everyone around them."

People who think they may be working with a workplace psychopath should be reminded that there are many types of people with poor social and managerial skills, Mr Clarke said.

"But for those who really think they do have a psychopath, they should really seek professional help."


:suspect: :*

[Sunfish]

Thank you for the article Keg. I've been studying this subject for four years now after running into one of these people in private life and then another one in business.

Mr. Clark appears to miss the point a little bit. Although he says between one and three percent of males and and .05 to one percent of females exhibit this behaviour, the reality is that the figure is much higher in management ranks because these people are driven to achieve. They are often highly intelligent, work their backsides off, and appear to their superiors to be god's gift.

However it is a facade. To achieve these impressive "results" they are quite prepared to do anything, legal or illegal, and destroy anyone who stands in their way.

They are also great haters, one household name will never forgive me for correcting him at a lunch, on the starting date for gulf war one!

[matca]

To the lost one'

Dood, I don't know what the market is for LAMIES around the world, but aren't there contracts around the place that pay more than this mob?

I can understand what it must be like to start working with a company that you admired as a kid to see them join the procession of whinging bastard companies.

'We can't compete with cheap third world labour' How about taking a moral stand and either pay the third world labour what you pay an Australian worker. Or don't send the damn contracts there in the first place.

Sportswear companies are now rated on how much they pay their overseas labour and how they are treated in the workplace, maybe one day the full extent of all these companies that bludge on foreign workers will be published.

Cheers.

[Butterfield8]

We at Qantas seem a little unlucky in that we seem to have the full quota of psychopaths working in the upper echelons of management. We have ALL the psychopaths in Australia working for one company....PLANE UNLUCKY.
Now I know why we have plastic knives on board our A/C...particularly when Dixon is in 1A.

[HANOI]

Keg

Do you think he really understood the message you were sending ?.

[Sunfish]

Yeah you are right as usual Hanoi. He probably isn't a psycho, just has poor management and social skills.........