Ozjet merged threads

[applehead]

I've heard that Paul Stoddart's OzJet will begin flying in Australia this month using 767s in charter operations, with the launch of the airline happening at the time of the Melbourne Grand Prix. Sounds like the real thing.

Anyone care to enlighten?

[Icarus2001]

Well a search of AOC holders on the CASA website does not show an entry for Ozjet or Oz Jet. So unless there is another company name that is trading as Ozjet then they do not appear to have an AOC as yet.

[VH-WASA]

Well, here we go again.

Is this another pipe dream run by so call experts to build the hopes and expectations up of the genuine professional pilot just like Australian Challenge Airways for example. They'll advertise to see who's available then you won't here from them again just like ACA. Next thing you will here rumours that they are winding up there business venture. A too familiar ring that seems to be common in the Australian Aviation industry. Just another one of those pipe dreams so don't get carried away.

Anyway, who is this crowd? What are their intentions? Where is the so called base? Are they a charter or scheduled dream? Where are they getting this 767 from? There's alot of competition round Aussy now to start a dream like this.

No A.O.C, sounds very suss for a start.

[topend3]

i think icicles will start forming in hell before any airline owned by stoddart gets off the ground...

[mainwheel]

Biggles factor!!

A few guys get together, normaly imbibing a few frothy's, and start to get imaginative.

Between them they can run an airline, and have a look how much people are paying for 1KG of freight. On a coaster, dry one of course-it's important, scribble that by how much their old chariot can hold and there you have it. All millionaires before too long. Who's In???

Freight, and later pax!?, will self load/unload, all flights will be full and nothing will ever go wrong.

End of the day collecting resume's.

[VH-Cheer Up]

Not sure you can get an AOC without a registered company.

Go to ASIC Company Names Search (http://www.search.asic.gov.au/gns001.html) and enter OzJet, Search and you'll see OzJet Airlines is deregistered.

Wasn't Stoddart planning a Moorabbin-Bankstown operation using 146-200's?

Slight issue with TODA, LDA and pavement strength might have proved a little embarrassing on day one. Never mind, at least there's a golf course at the northerly end of 34L at YMMB.

So where would these 767's supposedly ply their trade, if they were anything more than the figment of anyone's imagination?

VHCU

[questil]

Know of a guy who recently put in his resignation to join this company. Works for a well performing regional as well, a bit premature methinks!!!!!!

[Buster Hyman]

A few guys get together, normaly imbibing a few frothy's, and start to get imaginative.
Didn't DJ start something like this?
i think icicles will start forming in hell before any airline owned by stoddart gets off the ground...
Isn't this (http://www.eaac.co.uk/index.html) his?

[QSK?]

VH-WASA: Is this another pipe dream ....etc
mainwheelA few guys get together, normaly imbibing a few frothy's, and start to get imaginative.Whilst I applaud your caution in becoming too involved in startup ventures without proper consideration of the risks, you also need to recognise that such startup ventures may also represent future employment opportunities for pilots and, therefore, startup entrepreneurs should generally be receiving encouragement from the aviation community to start up new air operations - not condemnation.

For all you know, Reg probably thought of starting Ansett when he was in a very imaginative mood "imbibing a few frothys" at his local during the 1930s, while his mates around him were criticising him for his "pipe dream". The rest is history as we know. I would venture to suggest that all of Australia's past and present airlines and charter operators (Butlers, Bain & Brown, Hazelton, Kendal etc etc) all once started as "pipe dreams" by their respective owners.

Which of you two has started, and operated, a successful business which provides employment opportunities for people?

The concept for my business also started when I was having a few beers at my pub, and I also had mates who thought I was having a pipe dream. If I backed down because of their criticism, I certainly wouldn't have the very successful business I now have, which employs some 30 technical staff.

On many occasions since the startup of my business, I also have had other "pipe dreams" to expand my business into other areas and to also offer my staff improved career opportunities in the process - some come off; some don't for a number of reasons. It's no shame if they don't come off; that's simply business. But at least I receive encouragement and thanks from my shareholders and staff for at least having a go on their behalf.

Aviation entrepreneurs are no different and, generally, are driven by the same shareholder, commercial and staffing concerns.

[Capt Claret]

An inside source told me the other day that no formal application had been received from Mr Stoddart's organisation.

[applehead]

Just heard from the same person that Ozjet is in fact planning to start their operations using a BAe146 and not a 767. Don’t know where the whole 767 thing came from. Apparently after the launch at the grand prix they will conduct private charters (?) to raise public awareness with the 146 before starting RPT around July 2005.

As opposed to using $100,000,000 737s, the 146s are quite cheap, in fact, you could probably pick them up for a carton of Becks each. So they will be ahead in that respect. But I agree with others, if history is any guide their chances of long term success are low. But then again, Paul Stoddart’s no ordinary bloke.

Good luck to them nonetheless.

applehead

[The Enema Bandit]

Aviation brings a whole new meaning to masturbation.

[Buster Hyman]

...That's why its called a joystick!

[matca]

QSK,

Well Said!

[DJ737]

http://www.chesneyhawkes.co.uk/myimages/190205/PICT0008.jpg

http://www.chesneyhawkes.co.uk/myimages/190205/PICT0062.jpg

Hmm...a clapped out 737-200, anyone still know how to operate one of these:confused:

Should be arriving MEL this week sometime....probably under the cover of darkness.

DJ737

[Buster Hyman]

Nothing like a busy colour scheme to get attention! Still, I'm sure if they are well maintained the 732's will be perfectly comfortable for people, other than me to fly on!

[gaunty]

Geeez fat albert flys again.:rolleyes:

I am sure that was Flukey I saw him with in the lounge the other day?:eek:

eh eh it must be the aircraft they fly the Brits Rugby and Cricket teams around in:E

[Ultralights]

an interesting news artical i found on the bankstown airport site


OZJET PASSENGER OPERATIONS AT BANKSTOWN AIRPORT

Bankstown Airport Chief Executive Officer, Kim Ellis today stated there are no immediate plans for OzJet to commence Regular Public Transport (RPT) from Bankstown Airport.

Bankstown Airport is currently preparing a Master Plan, which will govern the aviation operation of the Airport for the next 20 years. The community will have the opportunity to comment on any proposals for Regular Public Transport as part of the Master Plan process.

“We understand OzJet are considering a number of options with a range of airports along the eastern seaboard and Bankstown Airport is one of the Airports being considered by the company. However, no detail negotiations have been entered into by Bankstown Airport with OzJet,” said Mr Ellis.

Media information:

Meredith Laverty 0414-523-060

[Animalclub]

VH Cheer Up

My search on the web site you mentioned turned up...

OZJET AIRLINES PTY LTD
REGISTERED
ACN 108 659 972

Cheers

[Capn Bloggs]

That looks like one of applehead's:
$100,000,000 737s
:p

[applehead]

I'd pay $100mil for the colour scheme alone, Bloggs;)

[Soulman]

Well, the first one is on it's way. Took off from Bournemouth, UK yesterday morning bound for Dunnunda, as seen here (http://www.airliners.net/open.file/781098/M/).

Funny that www.ozjet.com.au doesn't yet render a website - could that be a claim for false advertising? ;)

Is it true that they plan to use a horse and cart to transfer baggage out to the aircraft? :}

How long does it usually take to ferry an aircraft from the UK to here?

Cheers,

Soulman.

[alangirvan]

from looking at the rear of the engines in the photos, they don't have hush kits installed, do they?

[VH-Cheer Up]

Animalclub

Interesting, that entry was NOT there when I posted...

But looking at the info it should have been... Perhaps ASIC had not processed it's updates?

alangirvan - They look hushkitted to me, FWIW.

The airframes must be costing next to nothing, probably fully depreciated. Quick paint job ($25k?) and hey presto - who cares if the fuel burn is double because there's no lease payment and the hull insurance will be next to nothing too...

I used to think I should never fly in anything older than I am. Still, by hosting this aircraft here, just think of the service Australia is doing for a despotic African or South American nation somewhere, it's one less antiquated stringbag to clutter up their mountain slopes with wreckage.

So if it was $99 ADL MEL with J*, and $49 with Ozjet, would the punters take the -200 or the Airbus?

VHCU

[VH-Cheer Up]

Seems OzJet may still be contemplating using 146's as well if this link Smartnumbers Auction (http://www.smartnumbers.com.au/app/action/auction?method=viewAuctionDetails&auctionId=127&auctionType=1) is anything to go by...

why else would anyone want to buy 1 300 146 146?

[Lodown]

"The Australian" online is reporting that Ozjet, will be based in Adelaide and focussing on business passengers between the major airports.


Full story here. (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,12334237%255E1702,00.html)

This will make a few people in Qantas shuffle in their seats. Now, if they can just get code sharing with an International carrier...

[Howard Hughes]

That is very interesting Cheer Up, I was almost tempted to up the bidding to $2750!!

Cheers, HH.


:ok:

[Sheep Guts]

Maybe thats why hes locating to Adelaide. National Jet have a 146 maint facility there dont they and will have some 146 to boot aswell. 732s and 146s mmmmmmmmmm, mmmmmmmm lovely!


Sheep

[Don Esson]

News reports this morning suggest that OzJet and the SA Govt have been discussing the set-up/base of OzJet for more than 12 months, and that OzJet will be Adelaide based.

This begs two questions:

1. How much money has been or will be promised and what incentives and their cost have been offered by the SA Govt to bankroll this venture so as to base it in the midst of the Rust Belt?

2. How could any low caost carrier base itself at an airport that is denied its use for 7 hours a day becuase of a curfew?

When will politicians and their flat-earth thinking/economic rationalist advisors ever learn???
:zzz: :zzz:

[Groaner]

You name any start up in AU within the last 15 years and I have been offered a Cabin crew position, awaiting interviews or have been interviewed!

They just can't get the funding.


err, Virgin Blue?

Maybe even Impulse qualifies.

[Don Esson]

Groaner,

Virgin had buckets loads thrown at it by the Queensland Govt. Other States offered loads of incentives but failed to match the mob from Brisbane. You will also find that Australian trawled the state capitals to get as much by way of grants , incentives, tax breaks etc. as they could before settling on Queensland.

What does all of this cost the taxpayer? Tell me, why should taxpayers fund the start up of any business? They get enough tax breaks already and don't pay the same rate of tax as individuals earning roughly more than $65k. Why should any new business get a break? If I wanted to open a shop of some kind and so employ 2 or 3 people, NO government or council chases me around offering incentives to open in their patch. Why should an airline with rich parents (DJ and AO) get hand-outs?

[gaunty]

Shades of our friend Flukey, they must have been classmates:rolleyes: his F1 team must be running out of cash by now.

Perhaps he is going to borrow or lease an AOC from QF, DJ or NJS for a bit until he gets going with his own. :E

[alidad]

Bet you it will be a B737-(200??) blue and white paint scheme, with www.ozjet.com.au painted on the side of it with British rego, of G-CEAI................ Bets anyone???????????:O

[Knockout]

hey the web site is up www.ozjet.com.au

[fourplay]

Well FMD!
The website is up.
Where the hell did this op come from?
I for one am very surprised.
Sneaky b****ard!

Well AU definately needs a premium class product to go up against QF, There is a market for it if grown slowly.
Just wish it was being done by someone more reputable!

[questil]

had a look inside it today, the interior is very nice 60 seats 4 x 15 rows up front was also interesting i have never seen such a big ah no glass to be seen was manufactured in 1975, the engines looked small oily and loud but the paint sheme is nice
adelaide base thus far with plans for 4 x 737 200 and 8 ex ansett 146
ad in this fridays advertiser
above award pay (whatever that is) the ceo is ex Kendell wil also a few rex guys onboard in management
they have been approaching a few ex crj crew
endorsements will be salary sacrifice
interesting times ahead and more movement

[Howard Hughes]

Will this mean a mass exodus of other Rex crew too?

Can anyone tell me roughly how many crews required per A/C?
6 Perhaps? 12x6x2=144 pilots? woo hoo!!

Cheers, HH.

:ok:

[gaunty]

Hmmmm looks like "trouble in River City" then.

Will be interesting to see whether Adelaide can hold its end up in the scheduling/capacity stakes. No doubt lots of traffic between Mel, Bris and Syd, unlike VB with Bris the Adl end is the end.
Will be interesting to see what their Per plans are. Cuppla services a day would probably soak up all the J pax or more depending on the price.


This will make a few people in Qantas shuffle in their seats. Now, if they can just get code sharing with an International carrier... amen.

[vh_ajm]

Just wondering if anyone knows whether Ozjet will be recruiting employees (ground and aircrew) themselves or by getting another company to do it all? I am currently having trouble accessing the employment section on their website. If anyone has any luck could thet please let me know. The website is located at http://www.ozjet.com.au .

Additionally they have info on the fleet there. Seems they'll be running 737-200's and BAe-146s.

One last thing. I heard a rumour that this company initially enquired about running operations using BAes out of YPPF (Parafeild SA). Anyone confirm this? Wouldn't have thought they'd fit.

VH-AJM.

[Blip]

From their website:

the airline will operate a fleet of Boeing 737s and BAe146s – known as the whisper jet – aircraft.

The BAe 146 is also known for filling the cabin with toxic fumes without even a whisper!

If you're aware of this reputation (who in this industry isn't), why oh why would you choose the 146 over some other type capable of the same relative quietness? Surely there are other types out there that can do a similar job at a similar price.

And even if there isn't, why risk the really bad publicity if/when it does happen?

[Capt Claret]

Oh Blip, ye of little faith.

Me-thinks your some of your info is more historical than hysterical. :}

[RENURPP]

What other type is as quiet??

[Uncle Festa]

Let's hope that it's more successful than Minardi.

[Ultralights]

do any formula 1 teams actually make $$$ or are sponsors constantly picking up the tab.

after reading EW's post about a big spending client of his prefering other carriers to QF,
i still think there will be a strong market for the Business end of town! I prefer to pay a little extra to get good service, and a bigger seat, meals included thank you. and If Ozjet are aiming for that all business market, they will do well IMO. what other choice have you got in OZ? VB? nope, J* HAHAHAHAHAH, that only leaves bus class on QF, and that is proving to be below average at best. If i can get a choice of Business class on OZjet or QF, OZjet will get my $$.

[Lodown]

The advantage that QF will hold for a long time is the international connections, frequency of services and saturation of ports served. These aren't such big issues for the budget carriers, but are considerable issues for an airline focussing on the business pax. Assuming Ozjet get up and running, their initial hurdles will be trying to match QF on all or part of the three items above to the satisfaction of their clients. I wish them well.

[Buster Hyman]

Uncle Festa As long as he isn't using the Minardi mechanics, it should be fine!:ugh:

[VH-Cheer Up]

Much of the website doesn't work yet. The fullest featured bit is the Stoddart story - wonder if Paul suffers the same "shrinking rose" personality as SRB?

Want more info on the COO Peter Schott - see here (http://www.swin.edu.au/agse/news/newsletters/AGSE_Newsletter_Jun2004.pdf) . Freshly minted MBA so should be all over the business issues. Not many of those in the QF top row.

No mention of fares - wonder if EWL has been contacted by the distribution arm yet?

Anyone know what the fuel burn on those smoky old JT89D's would be? Where does one get an oil-change and lube job done on those, Adelaide or Mumbai?

The 146's worry me even more than a 30-year old 732 airframe. As potential J class SLF I would keep wondering about all that stuff that came out of the Senate enquiry. There are multiple threads in here already about cabin and flight deck air contamination causing some major health problems. Has all that stuff been resolved now? Was the real root cause ever discovered?

VHCU

[justanoldboy]

Who is their Chief Pilot. Where will they do their maintenance. Have they applied for an AOC. Start mid year? doubtful. Start with an old generation, noisy, expensive to operate 200 series B737. even more doubtful. Dream on.......

[Al E. Vator]

justanoldboy....just an old woman more like it.

For years I've been reading PPRune listening to all the naysayer 'experts'. Individuals whose abilities seem to be limited to sitting in front of a computer knocking others who have a go.

First there was Impulse getting jets....no way claimed the old women. One 'expert' even claimed he'd run down a terminal naked the day Impulse got jets...not sure if he was true to his word.

Then came the plans of Virgin to start a carrier in Australia and again the armchair experts came out of the woodwork. "It'll never happen" from the domain of cynical anonymity.
And now again the experts are out in force. Smart arse comments about Minardi etc. Have any of you owned a Formula 1 racing team? Have any of you owned or operated an airline flying Boeings?

Don't know anything about the credentials of this Stoddart fellow but good luck to him. Having been treated like rubbish when flying domestically and internationally in this country, competition is still necessary in Australian aviation.

My only hope is that this gentleman doesn't undermine the working conditions for employees the way some of those who preceeded him have.

[MkVIII]

GOOD LUCK TO THEM I say, but I question the purchasing of 732's...

If memory serves me well, JT8D-15's are exactly a fuel efficient engine...

And nor do they APPEAR hushkitted (the nacelles look stock standard to me) , which undoubtedly will cause concern.

I just don't see the economics of it. Sure, you buy a 732 for peanuts (low cycle life left, fully paid etc). You have 2 gas-guzzling Pratt and Whitneys, roaring like only JT8's can.(always did like it though!) You stick in 60 seats, and yet still undercharge compared to the other mainstays.

Something doesn't add up here. High operating cost is usually trimmed down with higher seat cost, or freight subsidy. But here, we have high operating cost (maintainence, fuel etc), minimum seating at LOW cost. These equations just don't seem to work.

Like I said, good luck to them. I just hope they have their sums working right.

I would have thought there were enough 733's around on the market these days, at competitive prices?

[P47]

If Mr Byron and his league of imposters had some intestinal fortitude and simply grounded every 146 due to the fume problem, it would make aviation safer for those poor bastards who have to fly them because they have no intestinal fortitude by simply refusing to fly them!

[Pappa Smurf]

I think old Paul may be onto something.
He states "bussiness class" .not a normal low cost airline for the broke people.
Customers to include bussiness men who dont fly ,or the company wont book bussiness class fares and top up with people who pay the normal top economy class anyway.
He must have done his homework on this one.

If i was getting into the airline bussiness thats the way i would go as similar thoughts came to my mind before.

Next you will find will be a Concorde replacement-----not a quick cramped plane ,but a 747 or similar decked out with heaps of room etc to supply the well heeled who if they have to fly want to do it in comfort.

Personally ,between Melb and Syd i wouldnt mind if i sat on the s/house as it doesnt take long.Can not see the value of bussiness class on short flights ,but now old Paul has given us better seats at a good price.

Will be interesting

[gaunty]

Newly minted MBA's are worse than useless unless they are backed up and complement actual real life experience. Learning on the job, in the aviation business anyway, tends to be fatal. :} The Stoddart apologia on the site doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

There have been more companies driven to hell in a handbasket than not by people with them but without the nouse.

I have been fortunate to have lived long enough to see them come and go, some brilliantly but they would have anyway, more doing the shooting star than not.

In the meantime the people who actually knew what was going to happen could only sit and watch as the starry eyed rest followed like lemmings over the cliff.

Lodown IMHO gets it exactly right.

And if the economics were so compelling why aren't QF and VB operating B732s and BAE 146s and buying second hand seats and tarted up interiors from Stoddart.

Seems like back to the future in OZ and I'm not sure that el cheapo J class fares will cut it here. Anybody want to bet how long it takes for them to have to start deep discounting to below Y levels to pay the rent on the way backwards out the door,

Somebody should remind him that not wearing any clothes in Melbourne will not necessarily get you into trouble with the law, but you'd better make sure your health insurance is paid up.

It must be that crazy F1 time in Mel ??:confused:

[Flybnite]

Hey VIII. I think you'll find the 73's don't owe Mr. S a cent. The're his from Euro-pee-on Aviation.

[CasperA320]

The 737-200 will be banned due noise like the F-28

[Icarus2001]

Well Casper, that may occur but don't you think that his "team" would have thought of that or is the aviation knowledge in Australia limited to PPRUNE?

The AOC application process and CASA approvals will uncover any problems.

I think it is really sad that so many posters here feel qualified to make disparaging remarks about his planned operation. Incidentally without knowing very much at all.

Of course the website is short on information. Maybe they should just send a copy of their business plan to Geoff and Brett? All in good time.

Cheap aircraft and no lease costs could possibly offset slightly higher fuel and maintenance costs don't you think?

Best of luck to him and his team.

[Ultralights]

but I question the purchasing of 732's...

Im sure stoddard has taken them fom his euro fleet as they have been replaced by newer aircraft in his euro ops.

He must be doing something right in the EU to be able to afford to own a F1 team!

and im pretty sure any losses incured will be picked up as a tax deduction for his EU ops. then again im no expert. i think he will do well.

[MkVIII]

I honestly hope so.

Didn't realise the 732's were owned already - apologise for that.

I am sure the 732 will be interim until something better comes along. The BAe 146 though, well, better left to cold and dense environs than hot and thin Dunnunda!

Even if they take away 1 % from Qaintarse it will be a GOOD thing.

[VH-Cheer Up]

One per cent from QF won't even keep them in Jet-A1, will it?

How many J class pax are there anyway between:

- ADL-MEL
- ADL-SYD
- MEL-SYD
- ADL-BRS
- SYD-BRS
- MEL-BRS

Anyone know?

Will the 732 go SYD-PER or MEL-PER? Or will it need the 727 alternate of Kalgoorlie or Esperance when there's 270/100kt on the nose at FL315?

Just hope the 146's have in-seat IFE. Looking through the oily cabin mist at a bulkhead screen 15 rows away might be too much to bear.

VHCU

[Capn Bloggs]

Has all that stuff been resolved now? Was the real root cause ever discovered?

Yes and Yes.

P47: Falcon 135, buddy.

[P47]

Sorry Cap, they still fume and they will continue to do so.
The whole system is severely contaminated causing residue fumes. I really feel the operators of these airborne carcinogenic
piles of crap should have to prove they are safe to CASA rather than CASA having to prove they are not !

[Capn Bloggs]

P47,

That is your opinion, and based, I assume, on personal experience.

Whatever, I'm sure the people who fly them don't appreciate being called gutless bast@rds, as you blatently implied by this statement:
poor bastards who have to fly them because they have no intestinal fortitude by simply refusing to fly them!

[V1OOPS]

Al E. Vator you can add one more airline to your list of recent start-ups (Impulse jets and Virgin) that were claimed to not have a chance in hell of surviving by the armchair experts still posting their carefully considered opinions here. Maybe these experts should sign off their posted opinions with their own score so far.

Does anyone recall it being said in this forum that Rex wouldn't get off the ground, and when it did, that it wouldn't last 6 months ... then 12?

I'm glad some of us get behind these national initiatives ... eventually.

[Al E. Vator]

V1OOPS.

Yes indeed you are correct. In fact I well recall one fat, agressive, unpleasant, retired Qantas fellow (who was also the head of an amateurish group of agressive private pilots), stating that Rex had no chance of being around in 6 months time.

Not only are they still around but they have outlasted said fat, aggressive fellow. :ok:

[VH-Cheer Up]

Aforesaid fat unpleasant QF LH Cap'n wouldn't have initials BH would he?

If so, I shared the flight deck with him on a short sector in the red beercan dreaming. He was PF and I hafta say he could fly.

We were running late due to lost SLF ex-YSSY and were given two runway options to land at YMML. The best option, for a quick access to the International terminal, involved landing and stopping short of the runway intersection, which was accomplished by the book, by the numbers, and with astonishing precision for a fat old chap. OK, we were nicely underweight (hullwise) but it was crisp and accurate as you like. And we were back on time for disembarkation.

Looks, and sometimes personalities can be deceiving...

I was never sure about the filthy red baseball cap though, and the mo, thought it made him look like Skunk Baxter.


VHCU

[Spodman]

Noted the above nestled between Ansett hulks this morning. Being a B732 it make the freighters look modern...

Looks nice in it's colors though. Basically white, with a lot of black & blue at the back. Checkered flag tail looks cute and I suppose appropriate.

Found a picture ON THE NET... (http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=781959&WxsIERv=Obrvat%20737-229%2FNqi&WdsYXMg=BmWrg&QtODMg=Nqrynvqr%20-%20Vagreangvbany%20%28NQY%20%2F%20LCNQ%29&ERDLTkt=Nhfgenyvn%20-%20Fbhgu%20Nhfgenyvn&ktODMp=Sroehnel%2022%2C%202005&BP=0&WNEb25u=Qnivq%20Zbeeryy%20-%20Nivq%20Perngvbaf&xsIERvdWdsY=T-PRNV&MgTUQtODMgKE=Svefg%20fubg%20bs%20Bmwrg%20va%20Nhfgenyvn.%20N eevivat%20nsgre%20vg%27f%20sreel%20syvtug%20sebz%20Obhearzbh gu.%20N%20angvbany%20arjf%20grnz%20va%20gur%20uryvpbcgre%20t rggvat%20n%20qvssrerag%20natyr%20ba%20gur%20neeviny.&YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=675&NEb25uZWxs=2005-02-22%2005%3A04%3A52&ODJ9dvCE=&O89Dcjdg=21176%2F431&static=yes&sok=JURER%20%20%28ert%20%3D%20%27T-PRNV%27%29%20%20BEQRE%20OL%20cubgb_vq%20QRFP&photo_nr=2&prev_id=781960&next_id=781098)

[P47]

Dear Cap, I hope you understand my position on this topic is one of for the crews, however when the crews continue to fly these "THINGS" and continue to get "CROOK" because they do not have the "COURAGE " to stand up as a collective to the Companies and simply say "NO MORE THIS IS ENOUGH" I have little sympathy for them. Surely your health is worth that !
There is plenty of evidence to support this ongoing problem, and many pilots licences been lost on medical grounds also. I just hate to see it continuing.
I say again, "WHERE IS CASA?"

[SkySista]

Colour scheme is okay, but I dunno about those engines! They look kinda old..... :E

[Buster Hyman]

There's no Z in OldJet!:confused:

[applehead]

Sorry to break it to you P47, but the 146 has the best realiability in the QF group at the moment. (yes I know they are operated by NJS)

There have been no "incidents" for ages - stop bleating on about something that you obviously know nothing about. Oh yes, you read the Sydney Morning Herald.

[wirgin blew]

How many J class pax are there anyway

Wouldnt be many after you took out all the QF staff travellers.



:ok:

[planemad2]

Fourth airline to hire hundreds in Melbourne

John Masanauskas
24feb05


HUNDREDS of jobs are expected to be created in Victoria with the launch of new airline OzJet.

Formula One team owner Paul Stoddart said yesterday that Melbourne would be the busiest port for his new business.
"It's personal for me because Melbourne is my home town, I was born here," he said.

OzJet maintenance will be done in the former Ansett facilities, creating more than 100 jobs when flights start mid-year.

But the airline will base flight crews in Melbourne and is expected to employ many more people as patronage grows.

Although the airline will nominally be based in Adelaide, 60 per cent of OzJet's initial flights will go through Melbourne and chief executive Hans van Pelt will live here.

Capacity constraints at Sydney airport gave Melbourne an advantage, Mr Stoddart said.

"Melbourne will be without doubt our busiest airport," he said.

State Tourism Minister John Pandazopoulos said OzJet was great news in the lead-up to the 2006 Commonwealth Games.

"Melbourne Airport's status as Australia's largest curfew-free airport and Victoria's highly skilled workforce have made us an attractive base for OzJet's maintenance operations," he said. As foreshadowed in the Herald Sun last November, OzJet will serve a niche business market after dumping plans to compete with low-cost carriers Jetstar and Virgin Blue.

OzJet will initially fly between Melbourne, Adelaide, Canberra and Sydney using 10 Boeing 737 and BAe146 aircraft.

Each plane would have only 60 business-style seats, giving passengers plenty of leg room. Seats would have ample recline for relaxing.

"We'll give you a full business class service at an economy price," Mr Stoddart said.

Passengers also faced shorter waiting time at airports by being allowed to carry more luggage into the cabin and because boarding would be quicker than on bigger jetliners, he said.

OzJet, which could be flying as early as June subject to regulatory approval, will have fully flexible fares allowing late passengers to board other flights without penalty.

Melbourne Airport CEO Chris Barlow said OzJet would join Virgin Blue and Regional Express in the south terminal.

Mr Barlow said he expected OzJet to find a niche in the competitive Melbourne-to-Sydney route, which is among the top five busiest aviation sectors in the world.

OzJet had originally intended to offer cheap fares between secondary airports such as Moorabbin and Bankstown in Sydney, but the entry of Jetstar into the market last year forced a strategy rethink.

Mr Stoddart, the F1 Minardi team boss, owns UK-based European Aviation, which operates 11 aircraft and is one of the world's biggest suppliers of spare parts.

[Icarus2001]

Okay then, where will the crews come from?

Will it be a case of pay for your own endorsement?

[aviator's_anonymous]

I'd just like to say OzJet has my full support!
I'm glad another airline is entering the market and that hopefully,
they'll "raise the bar" in what seems like an industry that has been
only trying to "cut costs" and get rid of services that made airline travel so
great in the first place. Yes there are many up and downs in any company starting up, but i think if we give it some support and the "benefit of the doubt", it might end up surprising us in what it does.
All it really needs to do is tap into the market where people are paying "full based fees" between capital cities and only economy class tickets, well....if u had the option to pay the same and get business class....wouldn't u go for it? I would...
anyways, Good on ya OzJet, and Hope the Best in the near future!

[Capt Claret]

P47

Just for you...

Been flying in them for 10 years. Been flying them for 6 years. NEVER had a fumes incident. NEVER felt sick flying one. NEVER EVER had any pressure from the company to not bring defects to their attention. Quite the opposite really. Don't know any "crew's" who "continue to fly and get sick".

Now what's your actual experience with the type?

[MIss Behaviour]

That same aircraft was in Darwin last week for a tech stop whilst enroute from Denpasar to Melbourne, with pax that is - not a ferry flight.

Formula 1 is one thing, aviation is a whole different ball game. :suspect: :suspect:

[The Voice]

welcome back MIssy ...

I guess we'll all just have to wait and see, but I also have declined an offer of interview for a possie in their Ops cell.

[Capn Bloggs]

Icarus,
Will it be a case of pay for your own endorsement?
If you're already endorsed: does he pay you!?:O

[Icarus2001]

Formula 1 is one thing, aviation is a whole different ball game. An amazing insight! You may like to have a read of their website. Mr Stoddart has plenty of experience in aviation in Europe in operations, spares and maintenance.

Try reading this...
http://www.ozjet.com.au/corp/about.aspx

[Buster Hyman]

OzJet would join Virgin Blue and Regional Express in the south terminal
Does that mean DJ will finally be made to take down theuir sign out the front of the terminal?
:hmm:

[Spotlight]

Capt Claret

Perhaps you are inured to it. I know I had a bad reaction to 146 fumes several years ago. The symptoms were similar to the onset of a cold. Quite unpleasant.

[Buckshot]

I'd be interested to know how many cycles this baby's got on her - it's a 1975 build: 30 years old!!

737-229ADV 21176/431

[Icarus2001]

Is there a finite limit to cycles before the aircraft can no longer be used?

If so(see below) what is it?

[Zigzag]

Yes, but I dare say it's still WAY off...........

[F/O Bloggs]

Are you sure you were not coming down with a cold?

As per Cap Clarry, never had a problem with any fumes from the 146, other than the noxious gases as a result of the inflight crew meals.

Every aircraft type has the potential to gas its occupants, and I know the 146 had issues in the past, but a lot of work has been done, and the problems appear to be resolved.

I don't see why the 146 would be a problem, probably a damn good choice for Ozjet. Cheap Leases, quiet airplane, smoooooth landings. Could be a winner.

"Follow me thru bloggs"

[Ultralights]

all that really matters is public perception of the aircraft, the general population and newspapers tend to have a short memory, the issuse of a few years ago will not be remembered. the public also percieves that 4 engines are safer than 2

[Eastwest Loco]

Very interesting theory - running a 732 in 60 seat full J configuration. American had considerable support doing similar from LAX into DAL (Dallas Love Field) with Fokker 100s. Sep 11 put paid to that when the entire fleet of F100s was benched, but high support until then.

Rather than take on the LCC model head on, this seems to me to be an intelligent way to enter the market with a defined point of difference.

I have no means or right to comment on the people involved, so I will not.

This just seems to be a logical way to approach a defined market sector that has been sidelined.

It will however be nice to hear allegedly hushkitted JT8D's bellowing across airport adjacent suburbs again. Nearly as nice as Rolls Royce Speys.

:}

Best all

EWL

[Metro36]

:cool:

From what I can gather the 732's are freehold from PS's interests in the UK. If they don't work in Oz, PS goes home.
I for one would love a job flying a Jet based in Adelaide.

As far as the 732's are concerned, the bloke (apparently) runs a very successful spare part (older a/c) factory back home so it wouldn't take much to fly a part if needed.

I'm sure there's a comparative compromise between fuel/maintenance costs to out-rightly owning aeroplanes.

Anyway hope Ozjet takes off and I become apart of it.

Cheers M36

[questil]

Media reports suggest that the heavy maintenance and pilot base will be in melb in the old ansett area, with the office and catering out of adelaide, ps is obviously taking advantage of the sweeteners offered by the sa government but would be silly to spend money in adelaide on new infrastructure while it is all there in melb.

[Sunfish]

Good Luck OZjet! Anything for a bit of competition!

And on a conspiracy note, anyone like to bet how long it will be before a "grass roots campaign" is set up by QF via the Packer press to complain about the noise and get it banned? My guess is two microseconds after the business is launched.

[Sunfish]

The ALF 502 in the 146 is a Lycoming helicopter engine. They simply bolted a fan assembly on the front of the output shaft. Problems initially with lubrication of front fan bearings from memory oil seals weeping behind fan and into bleed air, and voila health problems. Breathing oil mist is not good.

Saw first protoype 146 building at BAC where Bro in law was engineeer. John Warner was behind design at BAC before he became D of Eng at AN. It had four engines because there weren't anything the right size to give it two engines. JW agreed that it would be better with two, but at least the T/O performance with four was an advantage.

I remember doing the numbers on maintenance costs and the way the sales team treated us like ignorant colonials.:p

[OBNO]

Sunfish - Your Anti-Qantas sentiments really are becoming boring.

[Ultralights]

the aircraft is british registered. dont aircraft flying in the EU have to conform to higher noise standards than here in Oz?


agree sunfish, wont be long before the negative press generated by QF via their paper hit the stands.

[Boney]

.... but I would bet a weeks pay that Sunfish is right!

[Capt Claret]

Spotlight

I'm not suggesting there were no problems in the past. Simply the problems are now histroy, and, fortunately, in my 10 years I've not had a problem.


Sunfish

As I understand it, before the ALF502 became a helicopter (Chinook) engine it was a tank engine! As in Gruber's little tank a-la 'Allo 'Allo! :8

[Capt Claret]

Re "getting it banned", weren't stage III noise restrictions introduced in Oz a few years ago, thus bringing the demise of F28s, JT8s etc?

I'm surprised if it's not hushkitted it's allowed into Australia, unless perhaps on charteror pvt limited ops?

[EPIRB]

I may be incorrect but I didn't think they were banned (yet??) but I have a feeling that you do need bucket loads of cash to pay for the extra decibels.

[Zigzag]

If the AAE 727's can fly around, Ozjet's 737's can.......

[Pass-A-Frozo]

Yeah. Last time I was sleeping in Townsville a few hundred metres from the threshold when the 727 took off. I woke up and honestly thought there was an earthquake! :eek:

[gaunty]

Everything you wanted to know about noise certification but were afraid to ask (http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=986ecdbf5dff42bda2e48bd1959c25da&rgn=div5&view=text&node=14:1.0.1.3.17&idno=14)

Cheap seats for flyers but who is paying the real cost of operating old technology.

Here is one of many views (http://www.cfit.gov.uk/research/aec/05.htm)

[Woomera]

I'm putting all the Ozjet threads in one to save a bit of time with multiple threads on the one topic.

Oh and for the record tyere were over 14,500 views of the original thread and over 8,500 views of the Tulla one.

Obviously there is a bit of interest n'est ce pas.;)

[Capt Claret]

Just a bit of light reading Gaunty! ;)

Zig, aren't the AAe 72s hushkitted to make them compliant, whereas there are suggestions that the 732 is au-naturale!

[applehead]

The 146 engine was indeed originally designed for a tank. This is where the problems with the oil fumes came from, i.e it was simply not designed to be used to power a pressurised jet. As discussed, this problem has been rectified (and a long time ago at that).

P47, your silence is deafening now that those on this board with any practical experience on the 146 have put paid to your rubbish remarks. Before you get back to your GFPT study book, why don't you just say sorry and we can all be friends again ;)

[fourplay]

From Zig zag, Quote: If the AAE 727's can fly around, Ozjet's 737's can.......Unquote.

I tend to agree, was thinking the same.
The AAE 727 flys over our house on take off moments from Kingsford-Smith late weeknights several times per week, the noise is a pain in the A*se!
So if they can, I am sure the 732 can, kit or no kit!

[Capt Claret]

Sheesh, "So if they can, I am sure the 732 can, kit or no kit".

I guess some one should call Air Niugini and tell them that they can resume their F28 ops! :rolleyes:

[nightrider.au]

Just a quick question - does the business class layout, and the reduced number of passengers, significantly reduce the number of cabin crew required for operations? (eg. does it get you down to two cabin crew?)

Just a theory - if you go all business class, then you can reduce the number of cabin crew (reducing costs), reduce the number of passengers who will need to check luggage (because you can let them carry on a whole lot more - see the recent trend in Europe to let people carry on practically anything), reduce ground crew (because there won't be that much to handle), and possibly make some real money from freight (because there will be plenty of spare capacity).

Could freight be playing a major role in their business case?

Perhaps they have worked out that they would rather just carry high yield customers, rather than the leisure market with all their luggage, etc. and leave the rest of the space for freight?

Thoughts?

[reil]

nightrider - have recently been told by someone who apparantly knows that they only need two FA's by the regs but they are going to go with three for better service.

Also heard that they're having trouble finding 146 Check and Trainers. That could slow them down a bit!

[Kanga767]

The point should be made that persons paying premium prices generally demand reliable, on-time service.

K

[nightrider.au]

If the regs say they need two, but they are planning on having three, this might provide some savings (eg. if someone calls in sick, then they can still operate with only two cabin crew). Might save on having people on call, and prevent delays if they can't get someone in?

[Zigzag]

Sorry Claret, It was an off-the-cuff remark I should have clarified....

People are throwing mud at the fact the 737's purely because they have JT8's. Conveniently forgotten are the 727's still flying around the country.

Not sure on the hush kit status of either type, but:

a) If the 73's have been flying around Europe, surely they conform to some sort of regulation (aren't some places in Europe stricter than Aus)?

b) The noise abatement issue probably would have been one of the FIRST things Ozjet looked at when deciding on flying 73's around Australia (?) Surely (?)

Even so, I dare say a (hush-kitted) 727 at night would cause more issues with people living in a flightpath than a (non h-k) 737-200 during the day. I'm not convinced hush-kits are THAT much quieter. Just my 5 cents.

As a side note, gotta love the people putting down the 146. If they are so concerned about it's Air Con issues, why aren't they on here every single day calling for NJS/Qlink to stop using them?

[VH-Cheer Up]

ZigZag

NJS - Out of sight, out of mind. And NJS SLF are probably all used to air pollution anyway. Haven't you seen some of the more experienced guys on a 146 carrying a little yellow canary in a cage as an early warning device?

Q-Link - I thought they were dropping the 146 in favour of the new Bombardier "Q400", or whatever the anti-phased cabin noise version of the Dash 8 is called these days.

Has there any other aircraft that has been the subject of a Senate Enquiry into cabin and flight deck air quality? And all that happened while some of them had red tails with a white kangaroo on them, in spite of the world's greatest airline-owned political lobbying machine permanently based in Canberra. Even they couldn't stop that enquiry.

Where there's smoke, there's gotta be smoke. If the faulty air exchanger seal problem is all fixed now, that's absolutely fantastic, but the 146 brand is irrevocably damaged. It's a bit like the DC10 after Chicago and Erebus. Wasn't the DC10's fault, we all know that, but they ended up changing the name to distance themselves from the bad PR.

So I think what the people here are getting het up about is the 146 being used on intercapital trunk routes where the readership here is more likely to be flying... In other words, it's a NIMBY issue. Or more to the point a NOMJA issue - Not On My Jet Airliner!

Gotta go, nurse says it's time for my medication.

Cheers

VHCU

[Buster Hyman]

64 seats @ $200 per tkt = $12800 per sector if full.

MINUS 2 Tech + 3 Cabin crew.
Lots of fuel.
Ground handling.
Landing fees.
Ancillary costs etc, etc.

I'm not the sharpest tool in the box, but this works how?:confused:

[Eastwest Loco]

VHCU & zigzag

The beastie is hush kitted. Just look at the rear of the turbine and you will see the extension that was added to quiet them down.

As for non hushkitted 737s being quieter than a 727-200, if the turbines are the same mark # as the DC9-30s, the look out!

JT8D-7s on the TN a/c if memory serves - they crackled something terrible.

The theory is quite valid, but I feel $200.00 a sector may be an undercall. I have lots of passengers who would pay $250.00 (probably plus taxes) for a seat with legroom and full service. At least they are looking for a point of difference, and trying to find a market niche rather than going full tilt at the incumbents. The choice of aeroplane is quite interesting, but I suppose the girl owes Paul nothing in the long run.

We will see I guess.

And - I just noticed that there may be some of the ex AN 146 girls involved. I hope he keeps the Echo Whiskey regos on the ex Eenie Weenie aeroplanes. It would be wonderful to see my old friends off the fence and running again. I cannot remember one "fumes in cabin" incident at EW, but they were the front line aeroplane and the LAMEs tended to keep ahead of the Lucas electrics and the Avco Lycomings foibles.

Yay girls!!! Hopefully a new life!

Best all

EWL

[VH-Cheer Up]

Let's ignore the whole 30-year old airframe, hush/non-hush and oily cabin mist thing for a moment.

$200 a sector? Give me a break!

Let's just talk MEL-SYD for the moment. Internet prices.

One way only. (Return is usually double, plus QF charges a $3 noise levy ex-YSSY!) Not including credit card levy.

QF fully flexible economy = $360
QF J class (fully flexible, natch) = $554

DJ Fully Flexible = $239
Extra for "Blue Zone" (Exit row - 40 inch pitch) optional $30

So right now, business people are shelling out between $239 and $360 for fully flexible economy, or $554 for a wider seat, more leg room, swanky finger food or a hot meal and free turps.

Why would OzJet only charge $200? They'd be back in the Tasmanian Ferry Passenger quadrant of the market matrix, the SLF the Ppruners love to hate. That's not the market OzJet will be chasing, IMO. I am sure they'll be expecting to get yields more like $300 a sector or even more, perhaps even closer to the QF full Y fare of $360.

Let's face it, if the experience is comparable to QF J class and they charge QF Y class equivalent, I reckon they'll be selling tickets all day. Everyone I know wants to try it.

Of course they are all nervous about the age of the airframes but if a couple of flights make it without doing a Comet over the Med simulation, they'll troop along and stump up and expect the works for their $300 - $360.

Most people I know have no idea about the senate enquiry on the 146 so unless it happens on a flight they'll not notice. Media spotlight could change that perception, though.

As for the engine noise, is it going be noticeably louder than a 737-800 inside the cabin? Pity the poor residents of Sunbury and Redfern, but who else is going to notice?

So 60 * 300 (say) * 80% LF = $14,400


Expenses estimate:
Fuel = $4,000
Maintenance $1,000
ANC & Landing Fees etc say $1,500
Tech Crew (2 Pilots) say $400 per sector (or does the -200 need a F/E?)

Cabin Crew say $360 per sector (3 crew)

Food at $25 per pax = $1200

Total Expenses = $8,860 per sector

Gross Profit per sector $5,540 before head office burden allocation.

10 sectors a day, say... $55,400 Gross Profit per airframe. Should support a Minardi or two...

Am I missing something? Doesn't look that bad to me.

Roll on the increased competition, I say.

Cheers

VHCU

[Don Esson]

Cheer-up....I don't think your assessments would cheer up any airline proprietor.

What about ground handling charges (like check-in, cleaning, load/unload bags + cargo), insurances, security screening, catering ground handling (who puts the grub on the aircraft, and the removes the dregs?), selling selling costs and flight planning to name but a few of the charges and fees that airlines pay as direct operational costs. To these you must add standing charges and overheads necessary to support the outfit. Put bluntly, it's not as simple as you may think!

[VH-Cheer Up]

Don, sorry, the back of my envelope didn't extend that far. Feel free to throw your additional computations onto the barbie and let the forum grill 'em!

Would be interesting to see the collective IQ gathered here at this forum might determine whether the OzJet concept is viable, and if it is, how so...

Assume the ticket sales are mostly via internet (sorry for EWL and those of his ilk, but probably 70% domestic seats are sold that way). Internet development, management, call centre costs, say $10 per ticket, OK?

That's another $480 expense per 80% full load.

Cleaning, ground handling, dunno, maybe $250 per turnround?

Flight Planning cost... search me, thought the crew did that.

Check-in what? Ozjet purportedly offering to let SLF carry on three bags each, sounds like the SLF is self-loading its own bags... Check in pax - say two ground attendants at $40 per hour, say $80 per sector load?


Say the airport charges a per pax charge for the facilities too, say $10 per pax - another $480.

Where does that bring us... an extra $1290 in expenses, per sector?

So if the revenue is 14,400, expenses now are $10,150, profit per sector is $4,250, profit if 10 sectors flown per day is $42,500.

What else is missing?

I started my original post not to estimate the feasibility or otherwise, but to support the notion the price per sector could be considerably higher than the $200 - $250 mooted earlier.

Someone else reckoned the aircraft owed Mr. S zip, so there's no depreciation. Did I get the fuel cost wrong? Is $4k enough to get between MEL-SYD or vice versa?

Dunno, Don, I know it's not that simple, but just how complicated is it?

I still reckon it's worth a bash. Always worth a bash with OPM, anyway!

Any bush accountants out there got a properly informed view?

VHCU

[Ultralights]

Stoddard owns the EU biggest aircraft pars company.

Im sure there are enough spares left over from the -200 days in the EU and the US to keep the Oz fleet running for quite a while.

[RollzRoyce]

Nightrider,au

Its a CASA requirement that you have 1 flight attendant assigned to each exit. Hope that helps.

Rollz

[cyclops camel]

I have been quietly reading all the responses to the Ozjet threads over the past few weeks. I am a personal friend of a Director and have had an inside track on the formation of the business for over three years.
Believe me when I tell you that this Director is a very intelligent cookie and far too smart to have been content flying the line like the rest of us pilot sheep. All the inane arguments you lot have thrown up in these pages about noise, cost etc just make me laugh. Do you really think that the investors would have risked their funds without the satisfactory arguments and answers to the thousand other unasked (in this forum) questions that would confront someone launching a project of this magnitude?
All you should be asking is where to apply if you like the sound of things to come. If you are already happy with your lot then why bash what you don't understand? Call me in 2008 and we'll discuss over a beer.
CC.

[the lost one]

these 732's are rumored to have 55000 flt hours + many cycles-
qf are retireing there 733@734's with that many hours/cycles.

all aboard the SH#Tbox express.---

[P47]

To applehead,
I have nothing to apologise for. You and Cap Claret quite obviously cannot see the point I'm trying to make; that being and I say again, what about the poor guys & gals who cannot fly anymore because of these carcogenic wonders. You may like this thing because it's all you've got but that does not hide the "FACT" that this bird has ruined many a career. YOU CANNOT DENY THAT!
The only reason these things are still in the air from a companies point of view is that they're CHEAP. AND WHY ARE THEY CHEAP?

[Groaner]

G-CEAI MSN 21176 line number 431 YOB 1975

Total time 57459 hrs, 41527 cycles as of a few months ago. No reported utilisation since early 2003.

Originally purchased and operated by Sabena, leased out to operators including Gulf Air, Air Gabon, MAS etc.

[gaunty]

1975 eh, well she's a flirty young girl by OZ GA standards.:rolleyes:

But we don't want to go there do we.

I thought third world countries, petty dictatorships or the desert were the dumping ground for cobweb infested airline type clunkers this old.:{

We are supposed to be a young vibrant modern forward looking switched on country? :*

Still, we get a version of this every year at GP time, with any luck it will go away with that circus too.

And I am a F1 fan too.

[Kaptin M]

Personally I think the concept of providing an upmarket air carrier is a good one, and long overdue and wish them every success.
Hopefully. for the pilots' sakes, the autopilots on these -200's will NOT be the old CWS type.

If they do exceedingly well, who knows WHAT the replacement type might be.

Ansett New Zealand was started (by The Fat Man) with 100 series 737's (you know, the "737 convertible" as flown by Aloha Airlines), that we heard he'd paid only $1 million each (for).
They LOOKED fanbloodytastic with the new paint job, and a plush blue interior, but were heaps of cr@p mechanically...leaking pneumatic ducts (technically known as fuct ducts!), and several hydraulic system failures - BUT they got the airline going without investing too much initially.
And the passengers - you know, those people who PAY to ride inside - thought they looked BEEeeeautiful, and flocked to Ansett N.Z. in droves!

Anyway, Good Luck, Ozjet :ok:

[Eastwest Loco]

Indeedy Kaptin!!

As long as the aeroplane has been well maintained and is well fitted out, who cares if it is old enough to have kids in grade 9.

I wish Ozjet clear skies, and a smooth ride. As I said earlier, I would just adore to see the former Eastwest junior Jumbos come off the fence and fly again as well.

We definitely need another full service carrier to maintain just that - the delivery of full service.

A clear and present danger may even make GD have a little look at what he is doing to staf morale, and retain a few jobs in Australia. Faint hope - but a hope at least.

Best all

EWL

[poor southerner]

Is everyone missing something here, or is it just lack of info your side of the world.
Where are all these other airframes coming from and how is stoddy gonna pay for them. He may act loaded, but he aint.
Yes he owns skip loads of parts back here and a bunch of airframes. So he's added a little paint to an existing colour scheme and flown one down under. But the other 732's are either working on contracts over here or waiting to be brocken up. I also believe some on the flying examples have major checks due this year.
From the outside the busniness plan he has reverted to (not planned for years) would work, with the right capital and airframes behind it.

Also: Do you guys not know some of the things he's been upto over here in the past and the cr~p he speaks some time. Do you actually trust hime from a perceptive point of view.:bored:

[Wanikiba_pilot]

732's are still being used in the US, Alaska has them operating into gravel strips on the tundra and Delta uses hush kitted models on the East Coast, even into downtown DC(Reagan Natl). Southwest are still using 732s between Dallas, Houston and Austin Texas. With all the 733's about and the cost of fuel I would have thought the airlines here would have retired them. Maybe they fill a niche in the routes and the numbers just work. I think that it proves the point that while the airframe is old, it does still seem to have it's uses and seems to be doing OK in certain markets.

WP

[FatEric]

Southwest retired thier last 737-200 last week. Big ceremony, even Herb was there.

[MrWooby]

And in the latest news for the Australian Grand Prix, Stoddart (Minardi) want to race last years car as they couldn't afford to build a new one. This bodes well for Ozjet, an airline using clapped out, out of date equipment and they can't afford to pay for maintenence.

[Buster Hyman]

...Err...Ferrari are using the 2004 cars as well. :rolleyes:

[applehead]

P47 [applehead takes deep breath and sighs]

Whatever. I will not waste my time arguing with a amature like yourself. Good luck with the GFPT.

[scramjet77]

Hey P47,

I read with interest "this bird has ruined many a career. YOU CANNOT DENY THAT!". Would you be kind enough to quantify "many" please. I see lots of grand claims and the espousion (sorry for mangling the english language) of many wild claims. Please quantify in order that your argument might become more rational and less hmmmm.......

I am aware of one shall we say "questionable" incident, where it appeared that money made the problem go away.

Infact, the APU makes more smell than the main engines if you really wanna know.

[SmoothCriminal]

So,,,, have they got an AOC yet ?!

Smoothie :cool:

[Nakata77]

the plan is apparently 6 aircraft before June, all B737-200 from EAAC, UK.

capping your aircraft at 60 seats though and still selling economy fares in a highly competitive market - you will need to consistently sell out every flight in order to ven try and make some money, or at least break-even.

Interesting idea though.

[Menen]

Understand that the plan is to bring UK pilots out here to crew the B737-200's and those that want to stay on may get fast track permanent visas.

[VH-Cheer Up]

Ferrari may be running 2004 model but have made 2005 safety mods; Minardi has not, as I understand.

Again, bodes well (not) for OzJet.

They dont have to sell every seat on every flight though... 70-80% LF will get them enough to upgrade to the 2005 Minardi.

Probably not till 2006, but...

[Ultralights]

gee, a sucessful Business man, and an Australian as well, wants to start up an airline here in OZ, that might do very well in its chosen niche field, giving more job for aussies, in the form of flight crew, cabin crew, maintainance, and all everyone here can say is negative and bad things!

Minardy, is Stoddards SMALLEST part of his business. and im sure will have NO impact on his Aussie Aviation business. (except promtional)

what ever happened to the Aussie spirit of supporting a mate, of helping out? everone is QF this, VB that nah nah nah blah blah , all negative i might add, and now there might be a decent alternative! but still you harp on.
just maybe there could be a little bit of truth behind Paul Phelan and his report on Australian Flying.

Oz DESERVES our full support!

[Swear Engine Twenty3]

Have to agree with you Ultralights.

Whinging pilots seem to whinge when there are no jobs and whinge when a prospect appears on the horizon.
No one has forced you into avaition

Takes less energy for optimism than pessimissm.....

Go OZ thats all I'll say....

[Metro Boy]

I think everyone has a right to whinge and be concerned if what Menen has said is true. Why bring foreign pilots in when there is an ample amount here?

[gaunty]

How can you take this man seriously.

He trys to get the F1 mob to change the rules just for him using the great Aussie "fair go" BS , then whinges that there is a conspiracy and they are out to get him.:rolleyes: he has known about the change since Sept and all the other teams are compliant.

The World Motor Racing organisation then issues a release saying that if an Australian Court is used to subvert their rules then Australia will never see another world class motor racing competition that comes under their jurisdiction. Good for Oz NOT.

He complains about not having enough sponsorship money then puts OzJet in the prime ad spot on his cars for several billion NON Ausises to see.

Seems to me the smart thing would have been to get someone who would pay real cash money for the spot which he could then go and spend on his cars or airline:p, i.e.assuming there was somebody who wanted to pay for it.

Then I 'spose we can expect a similar "Aussie Battler" whinge when he has to jump through the same hoops as the local airlines.

[Kaptin M]

and all everyone here can say is negative and bad things! That's not really factually correct, is it Ultralights - though I agree with your sentiments.
It's well known that Australian is a "Nation of knockers"....not all of them female! :cool:
There have been several positive posts from NOTEABLE persons!:O

There are certain restrictions under Australian Legislation, that apply to Australian work permits being issued, Menen - although Bob (can't get it up anymore) Hawk did change those for a few months in 1989.
To allow foreigners to take work on offer in Oz, it has to be proven that there are no qualified Australians applying for, and capable of filling those positions. There may be an "ample amount" of pilots in Oz now, Metro Boy, but are they qualified to fly the aircraft that will be used?

[P47]

Oh dear,
Applehead please don't be like that.
You just don't get it, do you?
By the way, if you choose to call me an a non-professional (which I'm not) at least learn to spell it correctly !
Sincerely,
All the best.

To Scramjet 77,
Yes certainly,
I know of two definately, and through these, there are possibly 4 - 6 others with medical problems. There are probably more that I don\'t about. (like you, I don\'t know everyone in the industry)
Surely the fact that this has happened at all, irrespective of numbers, is not a good thing and I would hope that with that, you would agree.
Remember all, burnt turbine oil through air conditioning systems is VERY DANGEROUS and at the slightest hint of it, report it to your maintenance system for rectification.

[Z Force]

I wonder how they would stand in regards to bringing in foreign piolts with the amount of Australians working overseas that would like to come home and would the Rex pilots with RJ experience be considered suitable without a 737/200 endorsement?

[Howard Hughes]

I wonder how they would stand in regards to bringing in foreign piolts with the amount of Australians working overseas that would like to come home and would the Rex pilots with RJ experience be considered suitable without a 737/200 endorsement?

Considering that Qantas and Virgin both employ people directly from GA, a case could almost be made that there are sufficiently qualified people in Australia.

What qualifications are required to act as pilot in command on a multi-crew aircraft above 5700kg in RPT ops?

Many people in this country would qualify and meet these requirements.

I guess the only loophole would be the endorsement and 50 hours on type!!

Cheers, HH.

:ok:

[poor southerner]

So no one cared to answer my questions?

So Nakata you think 6 732's. I'll say again where are they coming from. The UK operation only has 9 of them. 2 of which are tied up with palmair work, plus the need for a spare and other UK work. When I was at hurn a few weeks back I think at least 2 had large cobwebs where engines should hang.

So whats the score, EAC shutting up shop in the UK and moving it all, pilots, engineering and airframes down unda ?

Or is it just a gimmic to try and drum up funding (for his dreams and other spinning plates) by adding a little paint to an aircraft already fitted with second hand leather seats and flying it down unda for the GP, where it would have been going anyway, filled with friends and other hangers on.

I'm sorry to say the way this guy conducts his business and the things I have seem him come out with and say. Just taints the impression I and possibly many other Brits have of ozzies. :oh:

[VH-Cheer Up]

Poor Southerner... It's not that nobody cares to answer your questions, I would imagine few here in the D&G would have access to the treasurehouse of information you have gleaned by scouting around the hangers and aprons at Hurn.

So what's on Stoddy's mind, really? Making money, my guess. He seems to have a fixation with becoming respected and accepted back here in his alma mater. Some here doubt his ability to pull that trick of, though many would love to see him give it a shot.

What his numbers look like, and whether they work, again, dunno mate. I ran a few ideas up the flagpole earlier but there's been precious little comment either way on those. I guess everyone's glued to the telly this weekend, there's an F1 car race on here in MEL.

One thing I will ask is that you don't make PS the new international representative of Australian anything. For one thing, he don't live here any more, and anyone who permanently turns their back on Oz isn't a good representative for the country, and for another, he was always about as representative of Australia as Idi Amin was of Sandhurst. Go figure. Takes all sorts, my old son, and there's a few billion sorts out there, don't tar us all with the Stoddy brush, thanks, mate!

PS Aussies don't think all British business men are like Terry and Arfa. Not quite all, anyway.


VHCU

[Supercala]

Smoothie,

If your who i think you are they could buy your AOC!!!!:ok:

[P47]

Onya Ultralights, I agree. Support the Australian product, or if we are not careful, like nearly every other industry(which has been sold out) in this country, there won't be one.
Not having something Aussie here to compete is a worry, especially industrially!
Come on Geoffrey, start looking after your Aussie employees and stop selling them out !
Hudson would be ashamed of you !

[VH-Cheer Up]

Wonder if they're launching MalaiseJet next week...?

[planemad2]

ABC News

Qantas, OzJet to compete for Canberra route

Thursday, 10 March 2005.


It appears an airline war is heating up over the Canberra route.

The ACT's travel industry suffered a blow in December when Regional Express pulled out of Canberra, citing lack of Federal Government support as the reason for its demise.

OzJet is confident of filling the gap.

The airline, which offers only business class flights, will today hold a promotional flight into Canberra.

Paul Stoddart from OzJet says he hopes regular flights will begin in August, subject to final approval from the Civil Aviation Safety Authority.

"There are only 60 seats on board, we feel there is an appeal for our product that will be taken up largely in Canberra," he said.

Qantas will also stage a special preview today of its new 72 seat dash aircraft in Canberra.

The airline says it is a coincidence it is offering joyflights to media on the same day as OzJet.

Qantas is yet to decide if the new plane will actually fly on the Canberra route.

[gaunty]

= I gotta hang around at this end of the world for another week and a half 'till the Malaysian GP so I might as well do a bit of trolling.

[VH-Cheer Up]

Onya Gaunty, great observation...

I think John Maynard Keynes once observed competition means greater choice (and lower margins).

So the Canberra fat cats can now choose between a 30 year old fan jet with 60 big fat leather seats, or a new, shiny, 72 seat dog whistle...

Anyone got a coin?

[QF Quoll]

planemad2

Qantas, OzJet to compete for Canberra route


planemad2, the only bad route in Canberra would be Amanda Vanstone from the upper house, ........ :{

[gaunty]

Mr Keynes would have been fascinated by the airline business.

He also said;“When the facts change, I change my mind – what do you do, sir?”

[fruitbatflyer]

Gaunty, your last two observations are very droll, and probably very accurate.
Does anyone really know what is going on with Ozjet? Yesterday's 'Australian' made the comment that the industry won't take Stoddart seriously until he has an AOC. The same article claimed that 30 people were working on getting the AOC.
If they expect to get going by August, one would assume that by now the job adverts for crews would be placed and interviews in progress, simulators booked, chief pilot and maintenance chief appointed, manuals at CASA for evaluation etc. Also, there can't be too many pilots not already gainfully employed and looking forward to the 717 that would be current in the 146, and anyone who ever flew a 737-200 in this country did so 20 years ago and so would have to do most of the type rating again.
Maybe most of the 30 people working on this are ex- Ansett pilots hoping to be recycled? How current are they?
As for how you can make money with 60 seats on either of these aircraft types, given their fuel burn and aging aircraft maintenance schedules alone, beats me, even if leasing costs are next to zero. Assuming they always have 40 'suits' on board, the best I can see them generating is about $8000 an hour, and fuel will eat nearly half of that. No discounts for air nav charges or terminal use either, and the suits will want real food, so I don't see any profit in this. A similar concept was tried with old 727s in the USA, and I think it lasted about two years.
Not knocking the concept - I think it would be great if he pulled it off - just a bit sceptical that board members and shareholders will allow their executives to pay the premium prices Ozjet will have to charge to get the $10,000 plus an hour these old gas guzzlers must cost to run (hourly costs only a wild guess, but try chartering any jet!).

[Capn Bloggs]

FBF,
hourly costs only a wild guess, but try chartering any jet!).
Yep, a wild guess. You only have to look at your outfit for the operating costs verses charter rates to see that a crappy old 737 would probably be quite cheap to run if you owned it...

[gaunty]

fruit dear boy, :ok: there is real, but anecdotal evidence for the moment, that we are actually in the middle of a worldwide shortage of pilots, similar to the period before ummmmm '89.:uhoh: We don't need to go there again but the international and domestic airlines of the world couldn't believe their luck at the time.

Today for example there seems to be a procession of young gentlemen slinking off to Honkers upon completing Airbus conversions for an actual Australian airline and so on, why would they chance their arms with a would be.

I suspect that Ozjet would be trolling the bottom of the pond given his particular take on low cost operations and the other more interesting and stable opportunities for young or old players.

Besides the training stream output has not been exanding at any near the rate of introduction of airframes into the country and goodness we all know that simply applying large amounts of money will not, at least overnight, produce instant pilots.

Ask Singapore Airlines, Malaysian , et al about their attempts in the 70's.

Are those the same 30 people who were working for Flukey or was it Challenge or was it Southern Cross. :rolleyes:

You'd think by know this group would now have a set of generic docs ready for sale and all that would be required was a quick find and replace for type and personnel for lodgement with CASA.

Now there's an idea why dont we just get a Master HCAOC and then we can all pop in and out of the market with whatever we can dig up and when we think there is an opportunity.

Sometimes there won't be any airservices at all but hey when there are it'll cost next to nothing, it's called the free market .:8

[BAE146]

I know I'll cop it from Patriot One, but Air Challenge Australia was never ever going to be a challenge !

I knew the players and the top dog is a dreamer.

[planemad2]

OzJet flies clear of price war

2005/03/15


The owner of Australia's newest domestic airline said on Tuesday he did not want to get into a price war with the "big boys", especially the notoriously aggressive Qantas.

Paul Stoddart, the Melbourne expatriate who owns Italy's Minardi Formula One racing team, said OzJet was seeking a small share of the market by filling in a gap left in the business travel sector.

"We are offering something that I don't think is a threat to our competitors," Mr Stoddart told a media conference at a private terminal at Sydney Airport. "I see us as someone that can work alongside all of the players in the market place."

But low cost carrier Virgin Blue and national carrier Qantas aren't likely to take the arrival of OzJet lying down.

Mr Stoddart's operation is targeting their own lucrative corporate and government travellers.

However, he believes the domestic air travel market is growing at such a rapid rate that there is room for everyone.

After OzJet completes its rollout to 10 planes plus two spares by March 2006, its market share will be under 10 per cent.

"We don't have ambitions to take on the big boys, we are just looking to take a modest market share," said Mr Stoddart, who also owns European Aviation in the United Kingdom.

He added that on the Sydney-to-Melbourne route OzJet was looking for about 1.78 per cent, which was the market share that Virgin and Qantas fought over every month.

OzJet is positioning itself as an alternative carrier for the business traveller seeking top line travel at economy prices - a sort of upmarket cattle class.

Mr Stoddart argued that Qantas could only undercut OzJet by slashing the cost of its business class tickets to economy rates.

"I do not underestimate Qantas, it is one of the best airlines in the world, and it has had in the past a very aggressive approach to competition," he said. "But where is the upside to getting into a price war?"

OzJet's 130-seat capacity Boeing 737-200 and BAe146 aircraft will each offer 60 spacious international business class standard seats and service.

Passengers will be able to check in 15 minutes before a flight, carry twice the hand luggage and change flights without penalty for up to 12 months.

A fully flexible return ticket from Melbourne to Sydney should cost $598, in line with Qantas' flexible fare offerings.

Point-to-point flight times will be faster, with the average time to travel between Sydney and Melbourne expected to be cut by 30 per cent.

Phase one of the start up will cost $US30 million ($38 million) and the airline is expected to be operational in late August, pending the receipt of it operations certificate from the Civil Aviation Services Authority.

OzJet will first fly to routes between Melbourne, Sydney, Canberra and Adelaide, except Sydney-Canberra. Phase two will add Sydney-Canberra, Brisbane, Perth, Hobart.

OzJet will have a breakeven load factor of 49 per cent in phase one and 47 per cent in phase two.

"Which means in effect that when the 30th passenger gets on board we are in profit," Mr Stoddart said.

The airline owns its assets, can add more resources if necessary and expects to employ about 300 staff in year one and 500 in year two.

OzJet is not hedging its fuel costs, but with prices set to remain high, it may look at the issue in the future.

[Uncommon Sense]

At the outset let me say besot of British Luck to this venture.

It seems to fit a neglected niche - indeed one discussed here about 18-24 months ago.

Simple extraction of the data in the above article suggests ML-SY costs for this operation are $9000.

Does this seem awfully low to anyone else? I am assuming all costs are included including aircraft insurance and whatever acquisition costs exist.

I also wonder what is meant by 30% faster SY-ML - I will assume they are talking about pax 'block' times - i.e. checkin to bugger off time. (Unless there is a new cost-index chart for the 732 Whisper Jet!)

[Metro Boy]

I'm at a bit of a loss too. Not sure how an old 737 or a 146 could be 30% faster. Sort of sounds like one of our esteemed leaders saying that by going non ETOPS to Perth only costs five minutes.

[Choice bro]

Good luck Schotty, Hope all is good in ADL. From an old mate across the pond.

:ok:

[T-bone]

Well said Choice Bro!

From another ex KD driver

[VH-Cheer Up]

Uncommon Sense - I think $9k cost per sector sounds close - see my proposed set of figures (in two posts) back on page 8...

Someone complained about a couple of omissions which I adjusted but no-one has come back since. I'd be really interested in getting some more aviation bush-economists analyzing this and testing my hypothesis (no rubber gloves required).

Now I know the guys in the pointy end don't like bean counting but there may be a few people here close to the numbers. How much does Jet A1 cost, for example? I guess it's less than$1.00 a litre... Isn't it $68 a drum? Those 732's probably have to be fuelled from drums, too...


VHCU

[VH-Cheer Up]

Ozjet has gone as quiet as this thread. Still waters run deep? Or is it because the F1 GP circus has moved into a more distant timezone?

Anyone know if they are any closer to getting their AOC?

VHCU

[apacau]

I was wondering the same VHCU. If they are serious about an August start-up, there must be a lot of people working extremely hard on an AOC application at the moment.

[double long black]

Typical cost's for a B732 operating an NZAA-NZWN sector is around the $8000 mark, give or take.

[fruitbatflyer]

Their website www.ozjet.com.au says they will be flying by midyear. Same website has a jobs section but no positions advertised. Must already have all the experts they need? Or maybe they reckon there are plenty of suitable people unemployed who can start next Monday?

[VH-Cheer Up]

Acute observation, fruitbatflyer. Mid year would be... end June?

Which is about 13 weeks away, by my reckoning.

Does anyone here know anyone who is actually signed up to work with them? In ANY capacity?

Or are they all sworn to secrecy?

[QSK?]

http://www.cbc.ca/mondayreport/videos/airline_failures.wvx

[VH-Cheer Up]

QSK

Brilliant!

[apacau]

The Oz today is reporting that ozjet are soon starting recruitment for pilots:

RACING identity Paul Stoddart's premium start-up airline, Ozjet, is moving to recruit pilots after setting up a senior management structure to run its operations Ozjet chief executive Hans Van Pelt said yesterday the airline would start advertising for pilots this week and remained confident it would launch in the third quarter of this calendar year.

The niche airline intends to initially operate a fleet of three BAe-146s and two Boeing 737-200 jets, each with 60 business class seats in a two- abreast configuration.

It will provide a business class service at full economy prices that will include the ability to avoid queues by carrying up to three pieces of baggage into the cabin.

Initially serving Sydney, Melbourne, Canberra and Adelaide, Ozjet hopes to double its fleet to 10 by mid-2006 and extend services to Perth, Brisbane and Port Lincoln.

Mr Van Pelt said the airline was pushing along with its application for an air operator's certificate "pretty much on schedule".

He said Ozjet had hired key post holders, including a chief pilot as well as check and training, engineering and safety and audit managers.

The flight attendant management structure was in place and the airline was looking for accounting and commercial executives.

It was also looking for pilots because they would take the longest to train. " We want to get them in the bag early," he said.

One of the airline's 737s is already in Australia and a second is undergoing heavy maintenance in Britain.

Mr Van Pelt said three BAe-146s were also undergoing heavy maintenance checks in Australia.

"So that's our five start-up fleet in the third quarter and then we'll get to 10 as quickly as we can after that, which will give us some efficiencies," he said.

"If we start with five (aircraft) we can concentrate on key markets and then we don't have too big a headache getting through January when there's nothing around."

Ozjet is aiming for a single-digit market share and will be targeting corporate and government business.

It says its market research indicates the new service will be well received and Mr Van Pelt believes it will be able to withstand competition from Virgin Blue and Qantas.

Virgin, in particular, is moving to aggressively court business travellers with flexible fares and perks such as free lounge access and priority check-in. Virgin also plans to introduce a frequent flyer scheme.

- The Australian ~ TUE 12 APR


And from the ozjet website:

Media Release


OzJet is All-Business for Air Travellers in Australia
11 April 2005

OzJet is Australia's new all-business-class airline, aiming to be in the air in the third quarter of 2005.

OzJet will operate a fleet of planes each with 60 business-class seats.

Its fares for these big, comfortable seats and matching service will be equivalent to Australian fully-flexible economy tickets.

OzJet will substantially change the nature of business travel in Australia while offering its customers greater speed, comfort, service and productivity.

On the high-frequency Sydney-Melbourne route in particular, travelers will save as much as 30 per cent in time because of OzJet's self check-in and - as they will be able to carry three pieces of luggage, including suit packs - avoiding baggage queues.

Headed by Australia's international aviation and Formula One sporting identity Mr Paul Stoddart, OzJet will be different, innovative and determined – a unique networking opportunity in the skies on an airline that means business.

While only charging a normal economy fare, OzJet's business-class tickets will have full flexibility for change, transfer or even cancellation.

Initially Ozjet will service Sydney, Melbourne, Canberra and Adelaide, with its headquarters, call centre and many other essential business functions in the South Australian capital.

Seats in OzJet's B737-200 and BAE 146 jets will be configured four abreast - two by two, without the often-annoying middle seat.

Each seat will have a 40-inch pitch, providing significant extra legroom, there will be more lateral space as well, and – if a traveler has work to be done rather than take advantage of OzJet's relaxing environment - PC power will help maximize productivity.

Once it obtains its Air Operator Certificate (AOC), OzJet plans to begin services in September, initially with six aircraft and then 10 by July 2006 – when it is intended to extend services to include Brisbane, Perth and Port Lincoln.

Popular tourist destinations such as the Gold Coast and Hamilton Island may be added later.

The travel industry has welcomed OzJet's imminent arrival in the market, with Australia's largest travel agency groups and corporate travel management companies pledging their support.

OzJet's reservation system will be compatible with the global distribution systems used by travel agents, other airlines and corporate on-sellers. This will enable the travel industry to easily book an OzJet ticket without the need for duplication from internet-based systems. This will provide additional benefit for passengers connecting with OzJet flights to or from international carriers, giving international carriers an alternative independent carrier with which they can partner to connect passengers to and from Australian domestic flights.

OzJet will be very travel agency-friendly, paying standard commissions to agents.

OzJet is only aiming for single-digit market share in Australia's $5 billion aviation market.

Its focus will be on corporate and government travelers, many of whom have been restricted to date by policies requiring them to travel on the "lowest logical fare of the day" and by the limited availability of business-class seats with existing carriers.

OzJet's pricing policy could make its fares the lowest available in many cases, yet with business-class seats and service.

"We will offer compelling value by providing business-class travel for no additional cost and with a suite of additional benefits," says OzJet chief executive officer, Mr Hans van Pelt.

"We have the ability to offer a different product and service to a large and growing market that is becoming more concerned with service and on-time performance.

"We have a commitment to deliver great service and to treat our customers with respect and as friends.

"Our market research reveals that our customers are identifiable, reachable and highly receptive to greater speed, more comfort, better service and higher productivity.

"The greatest long-term advantage for OzJet is operating in an environment which other Australian airlines cannot.

"Even if our competitors try to discount fares they simply cannot match OzJet's product."

OzJet Airlines Pty Ltd is an Australian company headed by a management team with strong aviation backgrounds and experience.

Mr van Pelt is a leading airline industry executive previously with Regional Express (Rex), Ansett and Air New Zealand.

Mr van Pelt and fellow executive Mr Peter Schott are OzJet directors, along with Mr Trevor King, a commercial lawyer and businessman, and chairman Mr Paul Stoddart.

Mr Stoddart is an Australian who has made his mark in international aviation as the head of the European Aviation company he founded in the early 1990s.

European Aviation, with facilities at Ledbury and Bournemouth in Britain, operates seven 737s, four 747s, a simulator centre, an interiors division and a spare parts division. The company specialises in airline support as well as supporting its own airline.

In 2003 one of European's operations, Palmair European, won the prestigious UK Airline of the Year award from consumer protection magazine Which.

European Aviation's spare parts division was established after Mr Stoddart purchased five aircraft – three Falcon 20s and two BAC-111s – from the Royal Australian Air Force in a tender in 1989.

The spare parts offered by the RAAF in that tender formed the basis of European's spare parts division, now among the largest businesses of its type in the United Kingdom with more than a million spare parts line items.

Mr Stoddart also owns and runs the Minardi Formula One racing team, the fourth-oldest team in the world's biggest globally televised sport after soccer. Only the Ferrari, McLaren and Williams teams have been in F1 longer than Minardi, which is based at Faenza in Italy.

Although the smallest team in this massive sport, Minardi is renowned as having launched many great driving careers in F1 – including that of Australian Mark Webber (who still travels to Grand Prix races in Europe races aboard Mr Stoddart's planes despite having graduated to stronger racing teams) as well as F1 race winners Fernando Alonso of Spain and Giancarlo Fisichella and Jarno Trulli of Italy.

Apart from its F1 racing activities, Minardi also has eight two-seater F1 cars which are used for promotional and charitable purposes.

Like Minardi, OzJet will have a "boutique" niche in its market against much bigger participants but with the capacity and endurance for the challenge.

It will provide a high-quality, time-efficient service – a new "wow factor" in Australian aviation - at modest cost.

[Buster Hyman]

In 2003 one of European's operations, Palmair European, won the prestigious UK Airline of the Year award from consumer protection magazine Which.
And in 2004 they won the Flight Attendants of the Year award from the cabin service magazine Witch!:E :ouch:

[questil]

Port Lincoln ??????????????????????

[apacau]

PLO is a very wealthy little town. It is often said that there are more millionares in Port Lincoln than in Adelaide - not sure how true that is though!!!

An interesting concept, mixing in a jet with all the Saabs and Brasilias. Only time will tell, I guess!