errosion of airline industry awards

[sys 4]

time for the ALAEA to include the LAME"S award in the current log of claims with qantas before we lose the lot in the Howard goverments award simplification and that goes for all in the industry,there goes overtime rates,leave loading,shift penalties,annual leave,etc,etc.

[Col. Walter E. Kurtz]

All of a sudden, voting Howard and his clowns back in isn't quite so funny anymore, is it?

[Mr Seatback 2]

Too true Col Kurtz

"I don't want high interest rates"

Low interest rates are no good when your hourly rate, like the rest of your terms and conditions, start plummeting.

Btw, haven't they just risen since the election?

"Unemployment is at an all time low"

And with control of the Senate, so will our salaries over time.

"He seems like a nice man"

Really? Has anyone asked the families of those troops that have just been allocated Iraq duty? You remember THAT commitment during the election - no significant increase in troop numbers to Iraq!

Of course, 'significant' is a relevant term. Means bugger all if you have control over both Houses of Parliament - 'significant' simply means whatever you feel like on the day.

Rant over.

[sys 4]

he also told those forrestry workers down in tassie that he wouldn't hurt the people that but in power ie the workers of this country another lie and his only been back in power 4 mths.the man has absolute power .now where going to see what this conservative gov is all about.WATCH COMPANY PROFITS GO THROUGH THE ROOF

[Sunfish]

I just have to challenge the assumption behind this thread....

Howards reforms will reduce wages and conditions.

Exactly how?

Wages and conditions are a function of supply and demand.

If there are very few available people then employers have to pay more to attract them and vice versa.

So what if there is NOT a never ending stream of LAME's, Pilots, FA's etc.?


Sunfish tore up some carpet a few years ago and saw some 1960's employment pages. Factories and businesses screaming for employees - offering them everything and anything to come and work for them.

Given Sunfish's first law ; "Governments achieve the exact reverse of their stated intentions" I suspect you are going to be much better off than you think.

Aren't all you LAMEs and flight crew complaining of the overtime you are being asked to work? That should give you a clue.

[socks]

Seatback
Really? Has anyone asked the families of those troops that have just been allocated Iraq duty? You remember THAT commitment during the election - no significant increase in troop numbers to Iraq!

When you become a pilot you expect one day to be flying a plane, when you become an engineer you better know what a spanner is because one day you may have to use it, and cabin crew should by now know that they will be serving coffee while they wait for that emergency to eventuate.

I thought conscription finished in the 70's, surely those who join now, do it because they want to. This is not the right forum for you to be pushing your political allegiants. They are all the same anyway, they just go by different names.

[surfside6]

Somewhere a village is missing its idiot.Should we let them know?

[Capt Basil Brush]

You guys no doubt know who the alternative to Howard was. (A Lunatic!!)

Simple choice really.

[socks]

Always the joker ss6, your childish ways are wearing thin.

[Ultralights]

wage pressures are increasing as our production capacity reaceh maximum through maximum utilisation of out workforce!

unblocking our ports and rail system will allow our manufatring to increase again. hence the interest rate rise to slow economic growth untill our infrastructure can keep up with the growth.

[pgroper]

Supply and demand is a nice theory, but if the employer has all the cards with regards to bargaining, then it is not a very fair prospect. (ie: take the job on the employer's conditions, hope to get some hours on a nice plane).

[FatEric]

"take the job on the employer's conditions, hope to get some hours on a nice plane"

This is one of the basic fundamentals of the capitalist system. To think that the market will move forward while being held to ransom by employees is ludicrous. Such forces may have been tolerated in the protected environment that Australia once was but this is no longer the case. Global capital currents will naturally flow in the direction of countries with pro-business industrial laws and low labor union participation (amongst other things).

The airline industry in Australia (like the US) is going through a long awaited rationalization. The outcome will be market dominance by new, lower cost operations with less industrial baggage and fewer impediments to rapid market response.

QF would be following the likes of AA, UA and DL were it not for generous government protection.

[numbskull]

There may be a skills shortage and we all may be very highly skilled but unfortunately there is no shortage of people willing to be Pilots/LAMES/Flight Attendants/Aviation proffessionals.

Job satisfaction is great but does that mean you should accept less than you are worth!!!

We've all been copping the short end of the stick for years now. It must be about time someone stood up!!???

[Al E. Vator]

FatEric....'QF would be following the likes of AA, UA and DL were it not for generous government protection'.

I just love that. Dixon (and Fat Eric it appears) always bleats about Government protection afforded to their opposition. What do they think built Qantas? Until the late 80's, no other Australian carrier competed with QF internationally. The Government was there if things went bad (far more convenient even than Chapter 11). The entire QF structure was built on government protection and it was with that inertia they came to the world of 'the free market'.

Other airlines (Virgin Atlantic for example) not only had to start from nothing, clawing their way to a position in the market, they also had to struggle against the like of BA, an airline that similar to QF had been mollycoddled for the majority of its life.

QF is finally privatised and Dixon bleats endlessly about the very same protection that built his very airline! Would QF be in the the position it is today without government mollycoddling.....I doubt it very much.

What bugs me even more is that the CEO of Qantas, whilst he has no doubt made a few shrewd moves, is regarded as a corporate messiah. Why for god's sake? The whole thing was set up for him. Branson, love him or hate him, at least built up his whole empire from scratch, he didn't have it all handed to him on a platter.

Fat Eric also says...'To think that the market will move forward while being held to ransom by employees is ludicrous'. Are you for real...sounds like some 'reds under the beds' rant from the 50's! The treatment of aircrew in Australia today, primarily at the LCC's is pathetic. Charging aircrew for basic sustinance whilst on duty - come on (btw: doesn't that breach CAR's?). Who is holding whom to ransom?

Terms and Conditions will follow the laws set out by Mr Keynes etc FULL STOP. When there are more seats waiting to be filled globally than there are properly qualified aircrew to fill them (as opposed to the 'thousands of pilots' airlines sometimes claim to have on file) the the laws of supply and demand WILL prevail.

Will an Emir in Dubai stand by and watch his pilots begin to leave in droves and his airline stop flying...no way. Will SQ allow their shiny new aircraft to be backed against a fence due lack of crew...never. The likes of JetStar and Virgin Blue will just be training grounds for better paying jobs.

When said situation will exist I do not know. However, look at the flying schools, they're empty. Vietnam-era pilots are retiring from US majors and the military has downised so much there are not the numbers to replace them.

10 years from now I predict Mr Keynes' rules will be in full swing (as they are indeed now) but smug airline managers will need to be a little more kind to aircrew if they want their airline to function. Happy to have this post thrown back at me at that time!

[FatEric]

Al e vator – I have never “bleated” about government protection, nor has Dixon. He is fully aware of how QF would struggle in a completely free market. The first half of your confused rant actually supports such an argument.

“Will SQ allow their shiny new aircraft to be backed against a fence due lack of crew...never.”

Actually, SQ have in the past allowed this to happen and MI up until recently had aircraft parked with vacant cockpit seats.

“When said situation will exist I do not know. However, look at the flying schools, they're empty. Vietnam-era pilots are retiring from US majors and the military has downised so much there are not the numbers to replace them.”

There are currently thousands of cockpit crew in the US seeking employment. The correction being experienced in the US at the moment will see AA,UA and DL emerge as smaller operations than they once were. A shortage of pilots in the US (or Australia) is not something hiding around the corner.

[Casper]

New QF Link pilots will be required to pay for their Dash 8 endorsements in the very near future. Sad sign of the times.

[matca]

Fools!

Not with an effective union or association.

Oh, sorry, 'unless you've walked in a man's shoes'

Do you think the HR legend who thought this up is paying for any further education? In fact, I think you'll find he/she is actually getting paid a bonus to implement this.

Like I said

FOOLS.