Hong Kong Express [Archive]

VneII

26th Feb 2005, 12:13

Hi Guys

I heard a fith hand rumour that "local conditions" (ie no living allowance) makes the salary very difficult to live on let alone the training wage unless you are able to share with an already established resident. Somebody please correct me I would love to be wrong.

My question is if you where to take a job and work out your contract (eg 3 yrs) and then get on with CX or Dragonair would you be considered a local and therefore not entitled the housing allowance from them?????

Cheers, VneII.

dirty deeds

26th Feb 2005, 12:34

Sorry to harp on! Does anyone know about the pay conditions?

Solwata

27th Feb 2005, 00:20

DD, check your pm's

Howard Hughes

27th Feb 2005, 02:34

Hey Solwata,

If you've got news on pay and conditions could you share it with me to please?

Cheers, HH.

:ok:

Bill Smith

27th Feb 2005, 04:33

HH Check your PM's

nudger

27th Feb 2005, 10:41

I'm also interested if any one has further info?

Thanks.

and thanks HH for the link.

Cool banana

27th Feb 2005, 14:39

I am also seeking additional information on pay, terms and conditions any info would be great.

Supercala

27th Feb 2005, 21:30

I to would like any information on pay, conditions and potential success of this airline.

SparkPlugs

28th Feb 2005, 14:34

Hey Guys,

The pay for Capts. - US $ 8000.00
F/Os - US $ 6500.00

All Inclusive........

Any more questions ........:ok:

sunny77

1st Mar 2005, 03:46

SF, are they the only two? Who is it that recently advertised for crew with CRJ's? Is that the Heli Hong Kong operation?
I am not up to date with all of these new starts, just want clarification.
I don't know HK living expenses well, but from this forum $8000 would be pretty lean living would it not?

Bill Smith

1st Mar 2005, 04:39

I think you will find the other one is found here

http://www.crairways.com/eng

Mark Six

1st Mar 2005, 08:13

In reply to Sunny77's question I have done a few quick calculations using tax calculators from the ATO web site and the Hong Kong IRD web site. The results are quite interesting.
US$8000 per month is $96,000 per year. This is around HK$750,000. If you live in Hong Kong you will be taxed HK$119,200 ($99,200 if married).
After tax you will take home around US$81,000.
If you earn the same salary (US$96,000= A$122,000) in Australia you will be taxed nearly A$45,000. Take home pay will be A$77,000, or roughly US$61,000, compared to $81,000 in Hong Kong. To take home US$81,000 in Australia your pre-tax salary needs to be A$171,700!
To answer the question, you can live quite nicely on US$8000 per month in Hong Kong, as long as you don't have children at international schools and so long as you don't expect to have the same standard of housing as you have in Australia.

Bill Smith

1st Mar 2005, 08:31

MS, You are on the money!

Believe me some of the salaries that are paid in Sydney, you are almost on the poverty line.

Actually, I am pretty sure that the toilet dump man is paid more than an F/O at any of the Australian Regionals.

The sums mentioned below are not quite correct anyway, get a interview, get a job offer and then you will know :-)

If you think they are correct SP, PM me because we are being told different things, or maybe it is the exchange rate you are using.

SparkPlugs

1st Mar 2005, 09:09

BS, in regards to the information given, its the contract i have been offered. So information is pretty valid. Also been given a start date - so things are on the roll.

Lets see how it all pans out - :cool:

Bill Smith

1st Mar 2005, 23:44

I don't want to get into a discussion on pays on the public forum like I said PM me or email.

I thought the rates were slightly different, but I could be wrong.
It is not written in my Terms & Conditions !

Solwata

2nd Mar 2005, 00:11

was told different pay scales also,

jonjie

2nd Mar 2005, 00:16

CR Airways has been in Hong Kong at least 3 years and seem like it the CRJ is always on the ramp. If they can't make 1 crj work i dunno how they can make 4 EMB-190's fly either...

capt'n w

2nd Mar 2005, 00:47

The Pay is $8500USD for Capt. and $6000USD for F/O.
$30,000 hkd ($5000AUD) Relocation allowance , first 2 weeks accomodation paid by the company , medical insurance , life insurance , return tickets for self and dependants to home country (once a year), 30 days paid leave p.a. , provident fund. No housing allowance, No education Allowance. Possibility of working 7weeks on and 3 weeks off (reduced salary).

Hong Kong Express Airways is not associated with CR Airways .
It is the jet division of Heli Hong Kong .

omnipotent

3rd Mar 2005, 00:37

The business name, HeliHongKong, is no more as they have consolidated both the helicopter and jet operations under the Hong Kong Express Airways banner. The helicopter service now operates as HeliExpress.

Of more significant note to those of you still considering a future with this operation, be advised they have implemented a policy on the helicopter side whereby if a copilot is selected for upgrade, he/she must agree to pay the company not less the HKD$45,000. This amounts to "buying" a command and is a sham as there is absolutely no guarantee they will be promoted.

My point is, it's a glaring example of how this crowd does business internally and I see no reason whatsoever the same mentality will not spill over into this new jet dream of theirs. Do not forget, the same people that decide what happens with the helicopter operation decide what happens with the 170's.

Word is there is a hardcore movement afoot to slash costs at every level and no idea seems too far fetched. To think the fixed-wing side will not be affected in the same way would be very naive.

This is not scare-mongering on my part, it is statement of fact as I have sources very near the sharp end. Do your homework very carefully boys and girls.

VneII

3rd Mar 2005, 03:22

Thanks Captn'w & Mark Six,

Could an FO live on US$6000 a month with a partner and what would you expect to pay for accomodation?

Also if you where to take a job and work out your contract (eg 3 yrs) and then get on with CX or Dragonair would you be considered a local and therefore not entitled the housing allowance from CX

Cheers for any help, VneII

Mark Six

3rd Mar 2005, 04:18

Yes, you can live okay on US$6000 per month. As PC, GH, RP, etc will confirm, that's about what I get paid. If you want the big money, become an engineer...
Impossible to answer the question about housing as it is so dependant on the area you live and the size of your house/apartment. I suggest you look at this web site: http://hongkong.asiaxpat.com/forums/default.asp?id=1
There is a lot of info there about living costs. You should do a search of the site because any questions you may have will have been answered before.
Dunno about the policy regarding locals/expats and housing allowances.

PC-HK

4th Mar 2005, 01:13

Mr Six

Have spoken to GH and RP, and while we agree you can live on US$6000 per month, your pay would have to be questioned.

US$6000 a week perhaps?

jonjie

5th Mar 2005, 01:21

any news from guys who applied for this outfit? i personally dropped my cv at their office in Central yesterday. place looked real busy..

flycold

6th Mar 2005, 08:23

jonjie, do you live in hongkong?

are they open to expat?

I think they don't check even if e-mail.

can you give me some infomations?

:ok:
flycold

jonjie

7th Mar 2005, 04:42

i'm in hong kong at the moment on holidays. i emailed them too before coming over but also no response. got their office address on the web.

assymetric

7th Mar 2005, 10:42

Has anyone else had difficulties loging in to Website - Application Form. Haven't been able to get in after creating account. Can anyone help.

flycold

8th Mar 2005, 08:00

still waiting for reply.

did anybody got reply?:suspect:

Fifthleg

9th Mar 2005, 00:51

Assymetric,

Try this link http://www.helihongkong.com/hkexpress/recruitment/

I had no probs getting back in once my account was created.

Cheers:ok:

flycold

9th Mar 2005, 06:27

HI Fifthleg, Did u get a response from HK Express? I have send my application but still no reply from them. :suspect:
Anyway, do you mind to share your previous experience and how long you waited after sending the application.

AK747

9th Mar 2005, 13:53

Just applied via the online application.
Got an application number of 1002-401 back
Does that mean that there are 400 applications in front of me?
I hope not...:(
But good luck to the ones ahead anyway! :)

Howard Hughes

10th Mar 2005, 06:57

Got an application number of 1002-401 back. Does that mean that there are 400 applications in front of me?

Or maybe 1,002,401 applications in front of you.

Cheers, HH. (Always the optomist)

:ok:

Badapple

11th Mar 2005, 00:58

Alas, another wet dream destined for failure.

Maybe when he gets tired of this one he will start up a space program.....

jonjie

13th Mar 2005, 02:19

hi guys..i got 1001-433 it must mean there's 33 going for captains..best of luck to all of us!:=

Howard Hughes

14th Mar 2005, 21:38

Solwata and Jonjie,

Check your PM's.

Cheers, HH.

:ok:

flycold

18th Mar 2005, 15:12

any replies from HK Express, Sir?

jonjie

20th Mar 2005, 02:05

Absolutely none whatsoever...:sad:

flycold

20th Mar 2005, 15:33

there are some pilots who are scheduled for interview.

and I'm not. :(

good luck to all!

jonjie

20th Mar 2005, 23:00

flycold..check your pm's.

Badapple

28th Mar 2005, 08:45

Sorry guys, but HongKong Express is living up to it'd sad reputation. Lots of noise, but little action. I just hope nobody spent too much of their hard earned money on this fruitless exercise

turboprop88

28th Mar 2005, 09:17

Hi Badapple,

Not sure what you mean.

Interviews in Melbourne last week.

Nice people - made me feel very comfortable - open communication about the company - great interview - a fair sim ride (could always have done better of course) - they even gave us an envelope with a hundred bucks for making the effort to come and see them.

I was impressed with the attitude, the fact that they don't expect a type rating and don't bond.

TP101

29_right

29th Mar 2005, 04:01

Bad Apple,

Like turboprop I don’t agree with you. All the contact I have had with HKE has been great, I haven’t spent any money of my own (except for buying a plane ticket to travel to interview, just like all other airlines) They are paying for our endorsements, which is a substantial amount of money. They are paying for tickets to Hong Kong. The conditions aren’t those you get at CX or KA but they have been up front in telling everyone so. You have an agreement to return service for 3 years. this is not unreasonable with respect to Australian operators, you would expect the same even to fly a regional turbo prop i.e. REX 2 yrs (and really if you want to leave pay the value of the training, this would create a situation the same as paying for your own type rating i.e. free to leave).
Most of us are now finalizing employment contracts and visas, and in general the contract has been accepted by all future drivers. Unfortunately like your post there have been a few negative posts re: Heli Hong Kong, but with the authors not saying "why" they think the company "sucks" it is unlikely the guys that have had the nod will reconsider the employment agreement.
I also emphasise that HKE has the support of other individuals of excellent reputation and as such I am encouraged to pursue the dream.

So if you have something to tell us please do! All involved would appreciate the information.

Bill Smith

29th Mar 2005, 06:01

Maybe his name says it all :suspect:

assymetric

1st Apr 2005, 12:37

Well done to all successful applicants. Let's all hope this is a successful exercise as it will benefit us all, and let’s forget all the unfair criticism.

Good luck boy/girls.

omnipotent

2nd Apr 2005, 05:42

I would hardly liken some of what's been said as "unfair criticism". As has been previously pointed out, some of the information posted comes from direct contact with staff currently working for the helicopter side of things. What would be unfair is to arbitrarily discount the opinions of those who actually work for these people right now.

If anything, I would caution those of you who so quickly dismiss what others have said, just because it does not match your own feelings of optimism. Like it or not, those of you who aspire to join this lot know nothing of how things actually work there, beyond what you've been told under carefully controlled circumstances.

Only time will tell if this new operation works out, but it would be a pity if later some of the posters on this forum had the opportunity to say "I told you so".

just another user

2nd Apr 2005, 08:15

Omnipotent,

It would be a lot easier to take some of this critisism on board if the posters would back up their accusations with some facts and evidence, rather than just dropping some negative comments without backing them up.

It is very easy to say 'listen carefully' and 'ask questions', without letting on what to listen for and which questions to ask.

And reading badapple's post, I would be more inclined to think that he either failed the interview or missed out on the interview altogether.
Ofcourse if he cares to elaborate a bit more, maybe that could possible change how I think of him.

So either give some solid information, or don't bother posting at all.

Cheers!

Badapple

2nd Apr 2005, 10:59

Very interesting point about bonding....

Recently, pilots have been required to sign bonds for recurrent sim training in the helicopter. Having been working with the company for a couple of years and attended sim training in the past without a bond, I was a little dissapointed to be subjected to this change of policy

But you know what really stunned me........I knew nothing about this bond until I was handed a bond agreement to sign AFTER I RETURNED FROM TRAINING. No prior notice given.

I say again.....be very careful.

Prove me wrong guys.......please...... and restore my faith in our company.

omnipotent

2nd Apr 2005, 13:42

Ask about where you'll really be living, Hong Kong or Macau. You will ask this because you've heard there are sufficient difficulties being experienced with the HK CAD that the first two 170's are most likely going to be registered in Macau. Then, should you actually find yourself in Macau, ask why your promised salary is being "adjusted" due to "market conditions" in Macau.

Should you be a first officer, ask how much you will have to pay when you are told you are about to be provided with "upgrade" training for a command.

Ask if you might be shown a published pay scale prior to signing on the dotted line.

Ask to be provided with a written document spelling out how the matter of seniority and promotion will be handled.

Ask about staff/family travel benefits and any associated costs.

Ask what portion of your salary you will receive while you're waiting to obtain either your Hong Kong or Macau licenses, you may be surprised at what you're told; assuming of course they tell you the truth.

Ask why the flightcrew and engineering staff on the helicopter side have such low morale. Then add that you've heard it has something to do with the incessant, almost childish erosion of the terms and conditions of their employment contracts.

How am I doing so far.
:confused:

Badapple

3rd Apr 2005, 04:09

J A U,

C'mon my friend, wake up and smell the coffee.

The majority of pilots in this company are highly experienced people who have worked for many other companies in many parts of the world. You may need to remove the rose coloured glasses for a moment and be prepared to ask the Q's as suggested by other contributors.

By all means, take the chance, I think that you are probably low on experience and desperately want to take this opportunity. Most of us have been there and know what it is like. Just be carefull.

I will not be contributing to this topic again

just another user

3rd Apr 2005, 05:22

Now these are some post that people can take home and think about.

Thank you!!

On the contrary to what you think badapple, I am not a HKE wannabe, in fact, not even a pilot. But that is besides the point.
I was just fed up with people making unsubstanciated remarks.
Now after the last few post, some light has been shed on some of the practises that (possibly) go on within HKE. Now people can make a more informed decision.

And like you said, I suspect that most people are low hours/inexperienced, who are probably comming from cr*p jobs anyway. So in the end, I don't think they will be deterred regardless. Flying a shiny new jet is always better then shovelling sh*t somewhere in GA.

Once again thanks guys for elaborating, you've redeemed yourselves.

Badapple

3rd Apr 2005, 07:14

J A R

Ok, I said I wasn't going to contribute to this post but your last post forced me to come out of retirement

So, you admit that you are not even a pilot, eehh

You are like a eunuch in a brothel.....

You see it going on all around you

You have a pretty good idea of how it is done

but......

You just can't do it yourself.

To think that I wasted my efforts on a eunuch

Cheers

just another user

3rd Apr 2005, 09:52

Hmmm, when did I say that I know it all?
I can't quite understand the eunuch remark.
What does me not being a pilot have to do with the state of my testikels?

I'll be the fist to admit that I am not an aviation expert, I never pretended to be. But I do know several people who are in aviation, some of them indeed wanting to go to HK express.

I'm not sure what I've done to upset you my friend.
All I asked for was some elaboration on the negative posts here,
which you subsequently gave. Please explain why that was a wasted effort?

It is of no use to me personally, but I am sure that you've done several other people following this thread a good service.

A bit of clarity is what I asked, and a bit of clarity is what you gave.

Once again, thank you.

PS. Badapple, prehaps you could let us know what your interest in HKExpress is? cause afterall, if you're not directly related to anything in HKExpress, wouldn't that make you a eunuch as well?:} :}

omnipotent

3rd Apr 2005, 14:36

jau

you are obviously as inexperienced a reader as you are an aviatior.

and given my length of time on the flightdeck as compared to yours, I hardly need the likes of you telling me I've been "redeemed". :yuk:

PS. Perhaps YOU would like to let us all in on what exactly YOUR interest in HKE is, because I am quite certain most of the posters on this thread are infinitely closer to what's going on than you could ever hope to be. :rolleyes:

Badapple

7th Apr 2005, 03:07

JAU,

R u sure that u are not a pilot? You seem to suffer from the same problem that pilots occassionally do (and I include myself in this one); we look but we do not observe.

Now, go back and read the previous posts carefully and your questions will be answered. Don't be lazy. Expecting someone else to do your work for you won't get you far in any walk of life. let alone aviation.

capt'n w

7th Apr 2005, 06:30

For those who are interested in fact and not the carpings of some disgruntled missguided elements.................................
I had the pleasure of a very informative and well conducted interview with HKE recently and I feel that I can confirm the following:

1. Hong Kong Express is NOT Heli Hong Kong although owned by the same people. It is managed by different people . There are no similarities between the two companies they dont operate under the same AOC.
2. There is NO aircraft rating or command trianing bond. Nor is there planned to be.
3. Macau could be a lifestyle option (NOT a posting).
4. Full salary is payed from day one (unlike most other airlines).
5. The Conditions Of Service and Contract are industry standard.

I was left with the impression that they were upfront on all points discussed and that they are placing much importance on employing the right people and keeping them.

Carp Away !!!

Badapple

7th Apr 2005, 06:46

Cap'n w

Your post reminds me of an old saying..

'Sometimes it is better to have people think that you are ignorant rather than opening your mouth and removing all doubt'

Obviously your post is a windup as it would be unbelievably naive for anyone to make such sweeping statements based on nothing but one interview.

However, as I have said before, I hope that your optimism is rewarded by a long and interesting career with this company.

I shall watch with interest your progression in HKE

omnipotent

7th Apr 2005, 15:58

capt'n w,

HKE is very much HeliExpress (HeliHongKong is gone). You may also want to reconsider your belief that HKE is managed by different people. That is only true inasmuch as the Ops Manager and CP (cited as two examples) are different individuals from the helicopter side. Above that level, I know exactly who's calling the shots and it is the same people who call the shots with the heli operation. That being the case, I would counsel that you and others have more than your fair share to be worried about after you commit yourselves.

And correct me if I'm wrong here, but I am quite certain HongKongExpress grew out of the same AOC that the helicopter operation works under to this day. Now if that's not the same company, I don't know what is.

"5. The Conditions Of Service and Contract are industry standard."

Now then, you are either easily fooled, or, just haven't been in the business long enough to know what "industry standard" really is these days. Nuff said.

Lastly, I'm glad you said you were "left with the impression" that blah blah blah. I will tell you one thing right now, this mob is very good at just that, leaving an impression that is both believable and desirable. Unfortunately, their track record when it comes to consistently delivering the goods year in, year out seems to be debatable.

And since I do not quite share the same level of "optimism" (if you could call it that) our friend Badapple seems to display concerning career prospects at HKE, I will only say to you and others, good luck. :}

capt'n w

8th Apr 2005, 02:07

Well there's two individuals that are "Wound Up ". Would anyone else like to comment ? or is the score to remain a paultry 2/Nil .:{

Raffi

10th Apr 2005, 16:07

Hello everyone,

Just wondering here- their website said that they accept applications from "low-time" pilots. At the moment, I only have 460 hours and am flying a C152. Would I have any chance whatsoever with no jet/turbine experience and not being a HK national? I have heard of many low-hours pilots like me getting good jobs in Asia, and I was just wondering if I would have a shot anywhere?

Thanks,

Raffi.

rotorlow

12th Apr 2005, 07:26

Wow, there seem to be a few people here with some axes to grind, I wonder why. Maybe disgruntled ex-employees...

I have some friends working the helicopter side of things, and while it may not be a perfect job, they seem pretty happy with things, and have been there for a long time. This despite the earlier post claiming low morale and high turnover. Sure there's some politics, some things that might not be ideal, but show me the perfect job in this industry, and I'll show a queue of people waiting for the incumbent to die.

I hope that the new airline takes off (excuse the pun), and provides a break in the industry for a whole bunch of people. Good luck to all involved.