PDA

View Full Version : Say Goodbye to Yesterday


grip-pipe
24th Feb 2005, 10:14
LongJohn on a different thread put forward the observation we as a work group appeared to headed in a race to the bottom. That thread seems a little diverse at the moment so here's another go at some discussion.

First light aircraft GA is dead, it merely requires a proper funeral. It now becomes harder to find a start to develop experience, true but light aircraft GA is not simply a feed stock for the airline industry, or the ideal stepping stone to heavy aircraft airlines. GA's market has withered and died, end of story, its not attractive as a pastime, its no longer affordable for agricultural properties, its importance as a quick form of transport is now over with the improved highways, freeways and modern cars. The car murders GA as it is the major airlines competitor. Where GA once was is now part of history. The technology is dated, the equipment clapped out and its discomfort unwanted.

It is not a race to the bottom it is the bottom. The golden age of jet transport with high yield but low cost loads has vanished with mass transports minimum cost operational focus. As the avenue of a diversified and healthy aviation sector receded so di the ability to obtain skills and qualifications. 1989 saw globalisation arrive to the piloting world and ten years of deregulation has now taken its toll. Apart from QF every other major heavy jet equipment operator functions via EBA's or Workplace Agreements with capped wages and allowances, roster flexibility is non existant and they have aircrew pay for their training, that is you do. So your buying yourself a job.

All the corporate sharpening has been on labour and labour costs, training costs heaps much better if the employee presents qualified at their cost. Piloting has not changed pilots like every other occupation have always had to pay for their base grade training. The issue is the offloading of what are proper business internal costs, that is endorsement training onto the employees pilots. Everyone knows that unless your lucky enough to get a start at QF every other hirer makes you pay, that's the way all those companies do business simple. Because there are more drivers than positions, then we have no market clout, it has ever been thus.

Here's the rub! All this job buying via paying for endorsements has nicely occured in the start up phase of these businesses, it has not seemed a too high a price to pay to get a position flying good equipment at reasonable salary levels and good prospects, OR was it?

So let's fast forward to where we are going. It is now several years down the track of travelling shiftwork and ad hoc roster changes, you have an upgrade opportunity to a command or a new type, great, one problem, you now have a house a car and kids and no $ for the upgrade, that is your command slot. Now you can not buy yourself a job. Your stuck.

Best solution is a Tax Office ruling to make the companies have type training put back into the business cost box. A dollar or two on the ticket is cheaper than a redraw on your mortgage. But who is going to do that?

Deaf
24th Feb 2005, 12:00
"A dollar or two on the ticket is cheaper than a redraw on your mortgage." The SLF (AKA payers) may prefer " a redraw on your mortgage is cheaper than a dollar or two on the ticket "

Just a thought.

QF Quoll
24th Feb 2005, 12:33
Really thankful younger son tossed the idea of Aviation and chose a Uni - degree civil engineering instead this Aviation crap.
There's NO future for the younger generation in Flying for a living.

There's more of a future for in Security and ASIC bull****. !!!

Blue Mullode
24th Feb 2005, 13:40
I hope his uni education and studies see him able to spel and rite better than his old man.......

How'd you get past the Quantas aptitude testing??????

surfside6
24th Feb 2005, 19:29
Blue Mullode
There is no U in Qantas

Highbypasss
24th Feb 2005, 23:17
NEEE NRRR NEEE NRRR NEEE NRRR!!!........

....HALT....
...THIS IS THE SPELLING POLICE....
....DROP YOUR DICTIONARY AND COME OUT WITH YOUR HANDS UP!!!

...................................................:cool: H

Kaptin M
24th Feb 2005, 23:29
Yes there is, s6, that c_nt who wants to ship all of your jobs o/s!!

Romeo Tango Alpha
24th Feb 2005, 23:33
If you are interested in flying, you do it REGARDLESS. If you LOVE flying enough, you'll sacrifice just about everything (within reason!)

Tertiary education was a decided waste of time and effort for me. It all came down to basically socialist / neo-communist brainwashing, and not a whole hell of a lot else!

Do we REALLY need the Spelling Police? It's getting so uber-lame now. You KNOW someone has no intelligable or coherant response when they start attacking your syntax and grammar.

Ultralights
25th Feb 2005, 08:30
ahhhhh the joys of australias avaition scene! we are now reaping the rewards of allowing monopolies in the skies for the past decades! with corrupt local governments,over government (federal, state, local etc) and endless red tape. just look at Aeropelican, im not implying anything, BUT money talks, and developers ALWAYS win? why is that? just look the newspapers, especially recently, about councils and developers, local councils, beaurocrats red tape. all are responisble for the death of a once thriving industry.

The monopoly airlines have always pulled the strings within regulators, - remove competition remove GA , remove this and that, the result, No more commuter airlines, no more GA.
i remember the days you could book a seat on a commuter flight to just about every town in NSW and OZ, though the side effects of this are starting to bite in the name of skills shortages, which = higher wages, higher interest rates, so in the long run, Everyone pays!

its sad that a country with so many possibities such as ours is the most regulated and beaurocratic democracy on the planet. and to think, the fastest and most efficient way of defeating the tyranny of distance in Oz is aviation. (australia, with its vasts distances, empty airspace should be a world leader in Aviation with a strong and robust GA industry)

yet there is a small glimmer of hope, the RAA. why is there an exodus from the corpse of GA? they are Cheaper and more efficient! they are not seen as a threat to airlines, have little or no impact on tax income with PAX and terminal fees etc etc, and not strangled and tied in the dark ages with regulation, allowing advances in technology to be used to there full potential, and allowing unlimited freedom in creating new technology. why hire a 30 year old C152 for $150 per hour from YSBK when i can hire an 2004 model Allegro 2000, with better performance, for $95.

dont belive me? RAA aircraft can be used for commercial gain! but not fare paying PAX! CASA and others will never allow a competitor (the RAA) to take away income in the form of taxes and revenue from PAX, from those who rule the skies!

Adamastor
26th Feb 2005, 03:47
Actually, RTA, some of us do appreciate the finer points of the English language, and get a distinct kick out of seeing correctly spelt and formatted messages. In my opinion it doesn't lessen either the intelligibility or coherence of our arguments (though I do concede that the antagonistic manner in which some people point out grammatical anomalies here occasionally leaves little room for anything other than anger from the original poster).

As a point of interest, did you complete your "neo-communist brainwashing" course?

bushy
26th Feb 2005, 05:48
Adamaster
Thank you for pointing out the need for a reasonable standard of communication, so that posts actually do have some meaning. Many are just a series of words.
Also some posters appear to ridicule anyone who disagrees with them.
I thought pilots were responsible people who could communicate effectively, and participate in sensible discussion.

ITCZ
27th Feb 2005, 13:34
Where the hell did you get THAT idea from, bushy?!?

Pilots are good at drinking beer, telling stories about themselves and occasionally fly aeroplanes.

:)

More seriously though, when you compare pilots to people in other lines of work, you find a few interesting things

Pilots are mostly people who are oriented towards visual communications channels.

Manuals put them to sleep, briefings are too long if they go over a half hour.

Thats why you put us in simulators and SHOW us situations and concepts. Select us via psychometric tests which have little pictures to choose from. Draw diagrams of hydraulic systems instead of just writing how they work.

We spend our day chatting to our flight deck colleagues, not writing them memos.

About the only place where you find pilots regularly putting their thoughts into writing is either here or on toilet walls (but only if it is a female toilet wall, and it is rude or funny).

Pilots are also generally people who prefer seeing immediate results, and prefer to work on problems that well defined and the results of their work are right in front of them in the here-and-now.

Long term considerations are usually limited to .. next job, airline job if they dont have one, the next bigger airplane, the next bigger paycheck, the next overnight.

This is not a criticism. It is just that we are different from say, a scientist who might be working on a problem that is extremely complex like working out how to get molecules to act as transistors.... all tests must be well set up, with statistically measureable results, the results written up and published to the scientific community... etc. That is for people who are prepared to work on little bits of a problem that might take up to 20 years to develop a practical technology.

Not a job I would be interested in.

Enjoy the madness on Pprune, just don't expect responsible and considered responses all the time!

Sunfish
27th Feb 2005, 20:30
I don't think GA is dead. I think instead its just changing.

U.S. GA aircraft design has been in a state of suspended animation for decades until the Cirrus came along. I expect that eventually we will see new aircraft that can compete with sport aircraft.

The institutions need changing. The RAA seems to be doing a lot better engaging with the future better than another unnamed organisation which has its head stuck firmly up its fundament.

Airports? Ah yes! As cities have grown what used to be cheap airport land is now prime real estate. The solution is simple. Build new ones out of town. Repeat this [process every fifty years.

Simply engage with change! The sky is not falling.

Ultralights
28th Feb 2005, 05:29
Thats why you put us in simulators and SHOW us situations and concepts. Select us via psychometric tests which have little pictures to choose from. Draw diagrams of hydraulic systems instead of just writing how they work.

this might also have something to do with the 3D work environment. 99.9% of the population stuck on earth in a 2D environment. the only other exception is divers!. and the working environnt is ever changing and unpredictable!

not only that, if problems arent solved immediatly, the results are deadly, and not just for the flight crew!


agree sunfish with your post, only problem with moving airfeilds thurther from the expanding population is IT ISNT HAPPENING!! (fingers crossed ... yet!)