UM's and Royal Brunei very relaxed, we don't G.A. Fark

[Onewordanswer]

First spare me any condemnation of my personal situation having reviewed previous threads I do not need your advice on not transporting my kids in this way, thankyou.
Dear Royal Brunei Airlines,
I would like to detail for you the “service” which was provided to my children by your company on their flight from xxxx to xxxx.
Upon checking in my son aged 10 and daughter aged 7 at 1305 at xxxx Airport for the scheduled flight to xxxx and connecting flight to xxxx, I was informed that as there was an “emergency” no RBA staff were available to assist my children onto the aircraft. This concerned me as the computers were down and therefore xxxx airport staff were unable to issue boarding passes all the way to xxxx.
When I spoke to the xxxx airport official and explained my concern he contacted the operations officer for RBA and he explained to me by cellphone that due to extenuating circumstances staff could not meet my children and escort them to the aircraft but that they would definitely be well looked after and escorted to their connecting flight to xxx once in Brunei. I also requested that I be telephoned upon their being put onto the flight to xxxx. However these things did not happen……
Instead my children upon arrival were told to go and check themselves onto their next flight when they arrived in Brunei. I received no telephone call and my kids instead of getting onto a direct flight to xxxx as per their ticket were sent to xxxx a scheduled stop. At no time were they offerred a refreshment or even a modicum of interest from your staff. This was afirst and given your efforts the last time I would consider entrusting my kids with an airline, yours is naturally xxxx. I am still gathering further detail from my children as to the picture but can assure you that to say I am angry is to minimize my feeling. As far as I am concerned this was not a mistake but bumbling incompetence at its worst the consequences could have been far worse, they could have been molested or kidnapped while left unattended in Brunei quite easily.
Is this the “service” you offer to unaccompanied minors Royal Brunei? Unless I receive a satisfactory response from your company within 24 hours I intend to place this information publicly to warn other parents of the inept and dangerous practices of placing their children with your airline. If you were a person and not a faceless corporation I would like nothing more than to plant my fist with all my might in your face!
Looking forward to hearing from you soon my cell # is xxxxxxxxxx.

[etrang]

One word, i think you are sending a bit of a mixed message here...

"If you were a person ... I would like nothing more than to plant my fist with all my might in your face!
Looking forward to hearing from you soon"

[Max Angle]

Nothing in the scenario you have described will come as a suprise to anyone working in the airline industry, it could have been any airline anywhere which makes posting it here rather pointless, you could try a travel magazine.

10 and 7, longhaul, with a connecting flight in a far flung part of the world is madness in my book and.........oh, sorry you didn't need advice did you. Oh well I don't suppose you will do it again, a lesson well learned with no harm done. I can't for the life of me work out why airlines offer the service in the first place, there is little financial gain and whole lot of trouble to be had if it goes wrong. No one under 16 without a parent or guardian would be my rule.

[Algy]

Fortunately for everyone whose personal fortunes depend on the health of the airline industry, employees with attitudes like those of Max Angle are becoming rarer.

Unfortunately there are still quite a few around, which is why the industry has its uniquely confrontational relationship with its customers and so attracts the expensive attentions of the regulators. Unsurprisingly most of them have got their pensions and union deals stitched up and don't have to worry much about providing a decent service.

A major reason why governments feel they can commit outrages like airport taxes with impunity, and sledgehammer passenger-compensation legislation, is because practically everyone's now been screwed around by an airline.

Result: industry can't make money, employers go bust, employees lose jobs in their tens of thousands. Hopefully the coming generation of management and staff won't make such a complete hash of what could be a truly glorious business to be in.

[apaddyinuk]

Firstly improve your English a little...that hardly made any sense!
Secondly...I have worked in a customer relations dept for a major airline and I would be very surprised if the correct department even receives the letter within a week of it being sent to the airline let alone within 24 hours!!!!
Suggest a more adult approach to the issue instead of childesh threats that no one will really listen too...perhaps a lawyer would be a suggestion!!!!

[MarkD]

First spare me any condemnation of my personal situation having reviewed previous threads I do not need your advice on not transporting my kids in this way, thankyou.

For this read:

I sent my kids on a fairly hefty trip when sane parents wouldn't send them one a trip 1/1000th as long without accompaniment. I was too cheap to go with them or to pay for someone to accompany. Many PPRuNers of a clued up sort think that's a bit dodgy given the kind of folk out there these days, and might enquire as to why the **** I risked them like this when told upfront that accompaniment might not be possible. But I don't give a **** because I prefer blaming Royal Brunei for the shortfalls in my parenting.

Does that cover it?

[Max Angle]

Algi,

I don't think it has much to do with my attitude, the airline biz. is no longer capable of providing the sort of service that a couple of UM's on a long haul trip need. The customer service staff at most airlines are overworked and underpaid and have to cope with long shifts with not enough staff around to run the operation properly. The consequence is that most don’t give a monkeys anymore and it shows.

The bottom line is that despite the fact that the airlines accept UMs they are just not set up to act in "loco parentis" in the way that say a boarding school is and the story related above is often the outcome. They need to realise this and either gear up for it properly, insist a vetted and trained member of staff accompany the child for the whole trip and charge accordingly or stop doing it.

PS. While lowest cost is the driving force the airline business will never be glorious for the customers or the staff.

[Onewordanswer]

I don't give a **** because I prefer blaming Royal Brunei for the shortfalls in my parenting.
Dear Markdickhead since you obviously can't help yourself lets put it this way........does the airline offer the service......yes or no?...If you accept they do that means they should live up to their end of the deal doesn't it. As to shortfalls in myself I have neither the inclination or time to strip my personal life down here for you

[Final 3 Greens]

Onewordanswer

Whilst there is nothing to stop you posting on PPruNe, I don't think that you will receive overly much sympathy on here, since the rather unfortunate, confrontational and arrogant choice of words in the first sentence of your original post makes it quite clear that you are using the forum to punish Royal Brunei, rather than seeking advice from others.

Personally, I would not send my kids on a trip as UM, because I am aware of the countless number of "Murphy" factors that can intervene to cause plans to go pear shaped.

Still, that is a matter of choice and if you feel that the airline breached your contract, then legal action should be your choice.

That would be rather more effective than posting a rambling diatribe on here.

[Onewordanswer]

If you are regularly a passenger on any airline then why not post your views or questions here? Many of us pilots like to know exactly what you think of us, the job, the airline or anything that you think we should hear about.

Oh really?:}

[Final 3 Greens]

There is a two word answer that I would love to give you, but the mods wouldn't much like it.

As I said, there is nothing to stop you posting on here, but you will not get too much sympathy from many of us, because of the patronising and aggressive opening to your first post.

[radeng]

Firstly, I don't have any kids that I know of..................

If I did, having seen the way BA looks after UM's, I would have no hesitation about sending them with BA.

Of course there are airlines and then there's BA....

And NO, I don't work for them, but I do find them good.

[cargosales]

Just posted this on cc forum:

Thank you BA crew
Would like to say a big thank you to BA staff, especially escorts and cabin crew. CS junior has just been out here for a holiday and is now safely back home. Flew UM both ways. She said all the staff were great and wanted to say thank you

Thank you from me too!



Hey all those knocking the UM service and the fact it exists / isn't profitable, THINK!! And airline marketing departments take note!! Miss CS now has a very, very favourable impression of BA. Guess who she will want to / be happy flying with again and again and again! Not rocket science is it?

Oh and BTW, UM under 12 flying with BA cannot be booked online or thru travel agent. Only thru BA themselves so the ticket cost more for her than it would have done for me buying online! Plus the $100 UM escort fee on top of that. So you are making money just it may not be immediately apparant

And yes, there was a tiny problem over exact meeting point in DXB when she came out (bout 100m away from where I was) Quick call to my mobile got us together in 30 seconds. Bit of commo from staff helps too.

CS

[xrba]

Why on earth did you choose to send 2 very young children to a destination that was not BWN by RBA? Could you not find a better, more direct carrier, possibly the destination airport’s flag carrier for example. Let me guess. You chose the CHEAPEST option and, often, you get what you pay for. A few years ago, when RBA’s reputation was better than it’s current atrocious one, the LHR-DXB-SIN-BWN-DRW-BNE flight [why is it cheap to OZ!] went u/s in DRW in the wee small hours. The [Brunei local] handling girl announced to the pax that all those with Brunei passports would be put up in a nearby hotel, and the rest could fend for themselves!! Fortunately this was not occuring in the previous 3 stops, and the other pax robust Antipodean attitude soon sorted that one out. Things have gone drastically downhill in EVERY department of the company and I cannot recommend them.

[Onewordanswer]

There was no direct flight and no it was not the cheapest option.

Greens- My post is not an attempt to gain cyber-sympathy but to publicly state my opinion of the service recieved........which is the point of this forum, is it not?

[BANANASBANANAS]

Whilst I sympathise to a degree with the points you raise, may I add 2 of my own.

1. You do your own case no credit with the way you present it it.

2. If you want a quality service, pay a quality price. If you pay peanuts, expect monkeys.

Bananas

[Onewordanswer]

I can agree my first response is as a dissatisfied consumer, no I did not feel happy hence my letter. Yes I did recieve a response saying all was well in their opinion.....I did wait longer than 24 hrs.
My permiss here is to highlight to others the unsatisfactory service offered, and as can be seen certain airlines seem to offer a good service-RBA being an exception in my opinion.
RBA as an airline if you read back only recieve a report as "atrocious" which is not the way they were reported to me by my agent............get it? It at least ACTS AS A WARNING FOR UNSUSPECTING MUGS LIKE ME.
:bored:

[Final 3 Greens]

Greens- My post is not an attempt to gain cyber-sympathy but to publicly state my opinion of the service recieved........which is the point of this forum, is it not? In which case, may I suggest that you edit your intitial post to remove the polemic content and leave a reasoned, fact based account.

That would serve your intent rather better.

[sparkymark]

I'm not taking sides but i do agree that he is allowed to say his opinion.

:) sparky

[xrba]

If RBA wasn’t the cheapest option, and the destination beyond BWN [unnamed by you] was not served more expeditiously by it’s state airline, what criterion did you use in selecting RBA as your carrier of choice for despatching your 2 very young children into the middle of nowhere?

[Anti Skid On]

Xrba - my thoughts exactly.

Onewordanswer, what exactly were the start and finish destinations? Were RBA really the only option?

I have experience only of UM's on BA and AF on short haul, but if I were sending my kin on long haul it would be on as direct a routing as possible, and if it were not possible I just wouldn't do it. And then I would be VERY picky about the carrier.

[Loose rivets]

Whoooooh! Wait a minute. Let's get things in some sort of perspective here.

1/ Sometimes people are left with very difficult decisions concerning their children. There was a clue in one of the responses that this might be the case.

2/Children are without qualification, the most important thing(s) on Earth. If you can run an airline, you can be responsible for the most important freight that you will ever carry. If you fail in this, it's time to review your right to carry anything.

3/ When I carried UM, I got myself out of my comfy seat and made it my personal business that they were handed over to the appropriate people. True, mine was a crew of five not twenty, but I deemed it MY responsibility from the moment I signed for UMs.

4/IMO, everyone should be held accountable for such important responsibilities--from check in to final destination...everyone that accepts their wages from an airline or ancillary industry. No excuses.

As a total Mother hen, when it comes to children and now grandchildren, I have been fortunate never to have been put in this situation. But I can see how, in this so called modern world, that such situations arise frequently. Please let us be more ready to share the load rather than criticise an individual's parenting during what may be difficult times..

[GwynM]

Unfortunately this is typical of many message boards, not just Pprune.

Someone expresses an opinion, sometimes badly written, and the old hands' first reaction is to attack someone who is not part of their "club".

Whatever the reasons for doing so, he sent his children in the care of someone else, and as I understand it, they had a contract to look after them.

They failed that contract, and he is naturally upset, and letting the world know about it.

Do people on Pprune really have to attack him when they don't know all the facts? A few have given advice (e.g. see a lawyer), but most are just posting purile comments to make themselves feel better.

[Final 3 Greens]

Gwyn

IMHO anyone who starts their post with the words "First spare me any condemnation of my personal situation having reviewed previous threads I do not need your advice on not transporting my kids in this way, thankyou" is inviting tart comment.

The rest of that post is a rambling and emotional diatribe that declares only some facts, so how do you expect the respondents to respond based on the all the facts?

This forum is generally very supportive, but in this instance the poster has chosen to post in an aggressive style that has obviously irritated a few people.

[Onewordanswer]

Greens a simple search on UM's will reveal that this subject seems to give some idiots the thinking they understand the full detail on anothers lives............of course this is complete crap. Also seems you feel that asking people to play the topic instead of the poster is unreasonable??? Why is that?Even having posted the fact that I am entirely uninterested in engaging in this I think the second respondent to this thread began.
The points I am highlighting are valid and probably of concern to others in a similar position maybe thats not you. Personally I don't care, why not climb down from your ivory tower once in a while?

So sorry you find my posting not up to your own "High" standard of english..........
so how do you expect the respondents to respond based on the all the facts? :yuk: :ok:

[xrba]

What ever way you cut it, entrusting your very young children to a tiny third world airline for a multi-sector, aircraft changing trip of around 10,000 miles has got to be a no-brainer.

[Onewordanswer]

So you are saying they should not offer the service?Yawn.......:zzz:

[xrba]

Many people offer many things, but caveat emptor springs to mind, not, I would surmise, a yawning matter.

[Animalclub]

xrba

I worked for one of those "tiny third world airlines" for a good many years. We handled hundreds of UM's at school holiday times. We had to put on extra flights for them.

Yes we had stuffups like aircraft going u/s and bad weather - and kids staying overnight en route to their homes. Always, I repeat, always, when kids stayed over night one of our female staff members stayed in the hotel with them.

We always kept their parents and/or school (which ever way they were travelling) informed.

Not one complaint about the treatment of their kids - and all staff were persons of that "tiny third world airline's" country.

Please don't dump on all "tiny third world airlines".

[xrba]

Precisely the point animalclub. Devoting, say 5%[1 hour] of your children's journey time researching different carriers might well have uncovered a caring little gem like your ex-employer. The information is all out there in the very medium which is being used to spread the current complaint. If, on the other hand, the whole procedure is too yawnmaking, and so you give less attention to it than most of us parents give to the school bus, then caveat emptor still applies.

[Onewordanswer]

Devoting, say 5%[1 hour] of your children's journey time researching and on what basis do you make that claim?
Caveat emptor!let the buyer beware
Smart consumers know their rights and act on them. Information is the best defense against purchasing defective products or falling vicitim to fraudulent practices. Learn the facts. Ask questions. Be aware of current scam operations. Blow the whistle if you think you are on the receiving end of a bad deal. Call your local public library to get the address, telephone number and president of any company you need to contact regarding a complaint or problem
Sorry but I have seen zero threads on UM's and RBA.........until now........again go back and read what the purpose of the forum actually is.
Woohoo another posting off topic:ok:Blow the whistle if you think you are on the receiving end of a bad deal

[Final 3 Greens]

xrba

Do you think that we might have a troll on the forum?

I'm not going to play any more.

F3G

[xrba]

Yes, Final I think that you are right, time to go.

[Onewordanswer]

Damn and I thought this was the begining of something special.....:p
muppets

[TightSlot]

Think this one has brought enough joy and happiness to all involved, so we'll put it to bed now.