100 + B737 NG Captains needed - USD8-9K

[Foreign Worker]

Word from my friends in Japan tell me that one of the two Japanese majors that has recently placed an order for more than 50 B737 New Generation aircraft, are going to need 100 - 150 Foreign Captains to meet their crewing requirements over the next 2-3 years.
After tax salary will be USD8-9k per month, accommodation provided.
Recruitment will be through an Irish contracting agency.

Will you Aussies and Kiwis continue working for slave labor wages?

[DeltaSix]

What about F/O's ?........ are they looking for same ?


d6

[3 Holer]

Supply and demand.

If $140K+ p.a. after tax doesn't get the 737 drivers of this country moving, nothing will.

Virgin will have to up the ante or purchase pilotless aircraft.

[Icarus2001]

Virgin will have to up the ante or purchase pilotless aircraft. Only when the pile of applications for FO positions falls to a few dozen. A long way to go yet.

[Dehavillanddriver]

If you factor the cost of living into the equation, it seems to me that the money being offered is less than that being paid to both Virgin and Jetstar Captains currently.

This isn't to say that the Virgin and Jetstar wages are OK, however I think many of us look at the dollar signs and forget everything else - $8000 - 9000 USD a month isn't all that flash in the grand scheme of things when it costs you a million dollars for a 1 bedroom apartment!

[TAC On]

DHD

What does "accomodation provided" mean to you?

RTFQ

Tac On

[Dehavillanddriver]

Tac On,

I see that we have been paying attention in those CRM courses again!

The point I was trying to make by talking about the million dollar cost of a 1 bedroom apartment is the relative cost of living - granted the phrasing is a touch ambigious!

A 1 bedroom apartment in Sydney in a multistorey tenament wouldn't cost a million bucks.

I spose I should have used the Big Mac index. What does it cost to buy a big mac in aussie dollars in Tokyo vs what it costs to buy a big mac here.

in terms of them providing accommodation, they really need to have accommodation provided because many expatriate pilots maintain at least a flat or house back here is oz. Sometimes it still has wives and kids living in it - many people I know choose not to take their families with them on these types of contracts, electing to try and get home once a month if they can.

Regardless of how much you get paid, being an expatriate is often more expensive that working in your country of domicile - trips home, phone calls, maintaining houses etc all eat into the supposedly better wages.

PS what is the tax rate like in Japan?

I have been an expat and it sucked!

The grass is always greener and I know of a number of 777 and A330 skippers who would swap their supposedly high paying jobs for direct entry commands here in OZ if they were offered one.

[Foreign Worker]

There are no requirements for Foreign F/O's at this juncture in time, which is not to say that is the way things will remain.
The F/O's will be sourced from existing G.A. pilots, an pilots currently undergoing CPL training.
But consider how your upgrade prospects will be enhanced, D6!
Bear in mind there are contract in China offering similar money, and Air Do in Japan are also currently recruiting B737 NG Captains for around USD12,000 per month, but without the free accommodation.
Why has this been posted on this forum? Because my pals in Japan told me that the airline which is the topic of this thread is currently researching setting up a flying school in Australia or New Zealand, and because both of these countries have a considerable number of B737NG typed and experienced crews.
Considering the salaries paid there, it appears to be an ideal breeding pool for future pilots who are looking at retiring earlier, or socking some dollars away.

[Metro man]

You need to examine the whole package and see how it fits YOUR situation and expectations. Money is an important consideration but not the only one. Some people will happily live in Oz on far less money than overseas, reasoning that to them the benefits of being at home are worth it.

Others will happily make sacrifices to bank the dollars for an early retirement, or some other goal.

Family, life style and ambition all come into it. Look at the job in it's entirity and decide if it's for you, don't just fixate on the $$$$s

[Oz Ocker]

Look at the job in it's entirity and decide if it's for you, don't just fixate on the $$$$s Yeah right. Stay in Oz and get sharfted - overworked, overtaxed, underpayed.
Go overseas for a few years, get payed market value an experiece life outside a the womb an cradle.
Som of youse seems a bit scared ta leave the nest.
The ones that ave been shoved out and HAD ta get on with life at least ave got a comparisen ta make. (Most of em didnt come back).
If yer happy ta stay in Oz and get screwd dont keep farkin whingin an whinin about it.
Youve got some choices - take yer options!

[boomhauer737]

Hey guys,

I know that in today's employment environment the answer to this question would be a resounding "NO!" But whats the likelyhood of any of these carriers employing high time F/O's with command ratings in the LHS?

Just curious,hopefully the scales will begin to tip in our favour with supply and demand.

:cool:

[FarCu]

Virgin Captains net between $8000 and $9000 in OZ. 8-9000USD at .78 is 10,200 to 11,500. About 2,500 extra a month, to live in Japan. Pay considerably more for food and about a months salary for a game of golf.
Not really that flash an offer.

[wirgin blew]

Guys you are forgetting about all those beautiful japanese cabin crew. Surely there are plenty of Captain's and FO's who will take the ladies and the greenbacks.



:ok:

[DeltaSix]

FW

Check your PM

D6

[Kaptin M]

Hmm, been eavesdropping Foreign Worker? ;)
Yep, most of the above is true - but now, I`m confused :confused:
There`s often a lot of noise made on this forum, about the low salaries of pilots in Oz, but I see from this thread that a few of you DON`T believe that to be the case.

On current exchange rates (and the AUD is very strong at present...or is it the Bush peso that`s weak?) the salary offered equates to AUD10,200 to 11,500 (thanks FarCu), with no accomodation charges - that means NO house insurance, no rates.
It is correct though, that "housekeeping" (utilities, food & the inoccasional beverage) will cost you around USD3-3,500 per month. And yes, a game of golf will set you back about AUD250.
Japan IS expen$ive.
Time off is also only 8 days per month. Leave is 30 days p.a.
There is currently no meaningful ID travel available to foreign pilots.
Hours flown are around 60 - 70 per month, so worked out on a per hour basis, you are DEFINITELY being paid more in Japan than in Oz.

The Air Do salary is closer to the mark (USD12k), but the housing allowance isn`t sufficient for Japan.

Chinese salaries - in the USD8-9,000 - would allow you to save considerably more...but then you have the lifestyle issues.

Check out the Far East forum for more info on Japan.

[Bungholerpoler]

....and prepare for the joys of working next to a bunch of guys who hate your milk-stench white guts for being a DE captain.

[Kaptin M]

Not the case, Bunger. All of the F/O's are brand spanking new - most with only bare CPL's.
There is a certain amount of "wariness" from the Japanese Captains, but I think that's only because they haven't had foreigners working and LIVING full time in Japan before this. The gaijin crew were based in their countries, and so contact was fairly limited.
By the same token, I hope they don't see us as a threat to their conditions - we didn't come here to undermine them, and realise that the conditions THEY work under are those that have been MUTUALLY agreed to by their employer and their union.
Yes, the foreign pilots do work more hours for less money - something none of us were aware of before coming here to Japan.
Similarly, scheduling here is often totally inefficient on the one hand, and then excessively over the top on the other.

The Japanese know how to handle their own (kind), but it's done in a (such a subtle) way that we westerners are often at a loss to understand HOW they do it.

Being accepted here is something that takes time (about 3 years) AND hard evidence that we aren't going to rape their women, and pillage their houses.

No-one said it was going to be easy - but no-one ever said it was going to take the patience of Job to be "accepted".

Again, read Far East forum for more background and informative stuff.

[7gcbc]

just a kind word to you folks who might be thinking about this contract, good luck and have a great time if you do get it.

However, I've not looked, although I think the contract may be offered through Parc, if it is, be firm in your negotiations and do not , I repeat do not negotiate with yourselves because you want the contract, Parc have a rep for squeezing hard, don't end up away from family for 12 months, wondering what the SFA you;re earning, and thinking of complaining, by then its too late.

Best of luck to all applying, and ahem ? Keep your eyes open when you read the contracts.

parc means field in gaelic, though read backwards it means something entirely different.

I can suss out the Exact tax situ in Nippon if you want me to , however it is not an easy post - significant cultural differences, some thrive , some not, I'll post back the exact tax implications for expats in a day or so, if my mate in rapongy ever leaves that cocktail bar.......

by the way, Housing is very expensive, however if you are on your lonesome its reasonable (1 bed), want a 3-bed with a garden and some where to play for the kids ? find an Investment bank to employ you, unfortunate but true. Not do-able on 8K Aud a month. period

<dooh> just saw accomodation provided, so not that bad a deal really, just check the lower case t's and dot the little i's.

cheers

7g

[HectorusRex]

For Kapitan's benefit there have been previous instances of expatriate aircrews employed by Japanese domestic airlines.

Specifically All Nippon Airways employed a large number of expats to crew their F-27 fleet(25 aircraft) which was being run-down and replaced with 40 YS-11 aircraft.
The initial term of contract was for 2 years starting at the beginning of 1970.

Very alien culture (to Europeans), and hugely expensive.

For anybody considering making the move check that the salary is pegged to Japanese Yen, and NOT the US dollar.
If the US$ or any other falls, then so does your salary.

[Kaptin M]

Thanks Hectorex, I wasn't aware that other expat pilots had been employed, and living in Japan on a fulltime basis before.
The '70's must have been very interesting times for the gaijin - I first visited Japan in 1969 with my parents, and the Japan of that time was remarkably different to Western culture...but then again Oz was a totally different place to the Oz of today.
Out of interest, how many were there, and where was their basing/s?

On the subject of salary, I understand that the trend now is to set the salaries against BOTH the JPY, and the USD, to ensure a guaranteed minimum, and I'd recommend that anyone who might be considering this (or other) contract(s), should have the contractor insert a clause to that effect.
In my case, we have seen more than 20% knocked off our salaries as a result of the Bush peso :{