Death of a Cabin Attendant in ORY

[flyblue]

Tuesday the 1st of February in Paris Orly, Mrs Laurence Brenier-Claude, a fellow Air France CC fell when the stairs where removed from the 2L door of an A320.
The door had been used to disembark a pax who needed an ambulance. The accident happened while the CC was standing on the stairs platform to close the door. The stairs were removed and she fell, while another CC managed to jump back in just in time. She was transported already in a coma with a helicopter to the hospital, where she died the following morning. She was 35 and leaves her partner and 2 young children.
An investigation is open to determine the responsabilities in the accident.



Please be very, very careful out there :(

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Dear God - that is really dreadful. My very deepest sympathy to her partner, children and colleagues.. +

[Flirt Attendant]

What an awful tragedy.
Heartfelt sympathies to the crew, family and friends.

Most of us have all looked out that door at the drop.....to think that we could lose a colleague in this way is so terribly sad.

[surely not]

Flyblue that is a tragic piece of news.

I know of at least 5 similar instances in the UK where fortunately the cabin crew member has survived a fall from a door or off the stairs as they moved off the a/c, albeit in one instance with a serious injury for life. ALL these accidents were widely reported at the time they happened, ALL were investigated thoroughly.

In 2 of the incidents they were exactly the same as the one you describe, the Cabin Crew member standing on the steps to start to close the door because it is easier than hanging out of the doorway. This procedure wasn't in any of the airlines manuals therefore the CC was found to be partly responsible. The driver of the steps had checked there was no one on the steps, climbed back into his vehicle and started to drive off. It was in the short time between their checking the steps were clear and starting to drive off that the cabin crew had gone onto the steps. Recommendation was that another person should monitor the steps whilst the driver got into his vehicle and prepared to drive off, just in case a cabin crew chose to use them to shut the door. Reality shows that this isn't always possible to achieve with short turnrounds and minimum staffing.

However, no recommendation has been made that future aircraft designs should look to eliminate the need for CC to have to leave the aircraft to start to close the doors.. Maybe, just maybe, some good will come out of this tragic death and rules will be changed.

I wonder how easy it is to close the doors on the top cabin of the A380?

[KiloMIke]

Thats such a tragic accident.

Perhaps it would be a good idea for airlines etc to make it policy for the door to be shut before steps are removed.

[flyblue]

Perhaps it would be a good idea for airlines etc to make it policy for the door to be shut before steps are removed.
KiloMIke
it is the policy already :(

[KiloMIke]

Even sadder then that such a tragic accident should happen so needlessly.

It is a chilling reminder about how easily these things can happen.

[Hostessmostess]

How very, very sad. Deepest sympathies to her poor family, friends and colleagues.

Do you remember that TCX temp last year in CFU who fell out of the rear 75 door and broke her hip and knee and shoulder? (I think that was her injuries - they were quite severe anyway?

Please take care everyone.

[RatherBeFlying]

Here is the website of one business providing Fall Protection for a/c Maintenance Crews (http://www.aircraft-fall-protection.com/index.htm)

The same protection should be available to flight and cabin crews as this sad accident is only the latest in a long string of casualties:(

It's a bit of a wardrobe challenge to put on a harness, but you will be very grateful if you suddenly find yourself hanging in it

[tom de luxe]

Not that CGT would accept that removing the stairs while the door remained open was daft (not to mention against company policy), nor that the person who made the mistake should at least be suspended pending investigations:

PARIS (AFP) - Air France said it may have to cancel half its flights out of Paris' Orly West air terminal as a result of a strike by ground technical staff.

A spokesman said 60 or 70 flights out of a total of 120 might have to be cancelled.

The airline operates domestic and some European flights out of the terminal.

According to two of the unions involved in the strike, the stoppage could spread to passenger handling staff and to the main Paris Charles de Gaulle airport.

Hundreds of passengers were left stranded by the strike, which was called to protest the suspension of a gangway worker. (my emphasis)

The suspension followed the accidental death of a flight attendant who fell from the top of a mobile staircase as passengers were disembarking.

[Kalium Chloride]

...nor that the person who made the mistake should at least be suspended pending investigations


This ground worker probably didn't kill the FA deliberately and is probably feeling devastated at the thought of being responsible.

Something to think about - I'll bet this person is the only one on the ramp who you could trust not to make the same mistake again.

Suspension for deliberate actions, yes - like idiot pilots drinking before flight - but I think this is a little harsh, unless it's for the benefit of the person involved.

[pilotwolf]

Suspension isn't normally regarded as a disciplinary action - it's done merely to protect ALL involved.

However I would add that maybe out of respect the rights and wrongs of the suspension could be discussed in a separate thread?

Sad news.... :(

PW

[BYMONEK]

SURELY NOT

I don't for one minute think there will be any steps big enough for the upper deck of A380. The upper deck would be accessed by piers/boarding gates only............I hope!

This incident is a tragic waste of life but I doubt we will never see it happen again.The same thing almost happened to me 20 years ago at Manchester Airport when a crew member jumped onto the steps in the split second she realised they were starting to move.Luckily for her all she had to face was the embarrassment of being driven around the airport stood at the top of the stairs and the mouthful of abuse from a very rude driver.The drivers Union protected him and blamed the Airline even though it was his fault and it was a regular occurance at Manchester Airport for them to never give thumbs up when the stairs are locked in place and ready for pax disembarkation. And we know what the French are like with their Unions!

[andyman_82]

My heart goes out to anyone who knew her and especialy those that worked with her and her dear family.
May she rest in peace now in gods kingdom and my god give strength to her family to overcome this difficult time.

[leonbrumsack]

Deepest sympathies to the family she leaves behind.

Although I am only relatively rarely on such steps, I am always worried that they will somehow move suddenly.

Hopefully something can be done so that these tragic accidents do not occur in future. :(

[ozangel]

I guess one of the most important things is that everyone learns something from this.

On a turnaround in Sydney on sunday, with all passengers on board we were in the middle of a paperwork delay (50mins) waiting for the load and trim sheet from a fairly new inexperienced loadie. Keeping the passengers happy was one thing - they had been boarded 30mins early and had now been sitting on the ground for 1hr 20m!

I had done a similar pattern on Saturday, and experienced the same thing. On both days, the rampies had been loud, abusive and impatient - insisting they had to knock off by 4pm. (As if it were the crews fault we were waiting for the paperwork).

On saturday, they pulled the stairs away while there was no one at the door, or in the galley. The load controller was still in the flight deck. I gestured for them to return the stairs - which they did while calling me a 'whiney f**k', and a 'fu**ing fag'... The number 3 came into the galley to ask what it was all about, as she had heard it 4 rows down into the cabin...

Sunday, they did the same thing, different rampies, different abuse, however when I asked them to return the stairs, they held them 2ft away from the door - refusing to put them back in. Subsequently the load controller had to jump the 2ft gap, and once again, the stairs were well and truly gone before the thumbs up, ok to close signal had been given.

I have worked on the ramp, I also knew a person who has had a fall from the aircraft door (only a Bae146, but enough to make it difficult for him to do simple things anymore).

I have printed out a copy of this thread to take into our fa manager. I think that its important that everyone be made aware the danger of open doors with no stairs/guard strap, and the dangers associated with the removal of the stairs... Otherwise, one day, it will happen again. :(

[surely not]

BYMONEK, I can see how you might have thought I was talking about steps up to the top deck of the A380........but..... I was meaning to ask whether the door closing on the top deck required crew to hang any part of themselves out of the aircraft to get it moving to a closed position? Same applies even to the main deck doors.

[flyblue]

Fokker_Me
if you have to talk to the FA manager, it might help you to bring along the chapter of your Ground Ops Manual (ask a pilot) where they cover the stairs/jetway rules. And whenever a fact like the one you describe occurs, to file a written report (or better have it filed by the Captain) referring to the Ground Ops Manual rules. Good luck.

[surely not]

Fokker_me, there is no justification for the bad language directed at you by the ramp staff. I suggest that you put in a formal complaint making specific mention of the fact that the abuse was audible at least 4 rows down the cabin. The staff responsible have 'brought the company into disrespect' by their actions which should ensure a disciplinary and possible dismissal if the company regs are the same as companies I have worked for. Add in their flagrant disregard for safe operating procedure and I would suggest that if they are not dismissed then the company has a serious issue with H & S.

[skyboy1919]

This is really sad, and something that has always scared me, but I know a lot of crew do. Larger aircraft doors are very heavy and sometimes even a strong guy needs a hand to close them. and the steps or jet way is an ideal 'push off'

I think the USA has the right idea, as most c/c do not close the door or open the dorr themselfs, and only ground staff do it in normal operation. I think this can protect things like this happening, however I also think c/c should handle the door regularly as you need to be used to the weight and method required to open, as each aircraft type is a little different.

I know some people worry about ground staff accessing the door due to slide deployment and so on, however I think nearly all aircraft doors now automatically disarm when opened from outside.

Anyone know why we do not use this system in the UK ?

My heart goes out to the family and friends of this poor person. I wish them all well.

[tom de luxe]

I would suggest that if they are not dismissed then the company has a serious issue with H & S
In the Real World, if they were dismissed (or investigated), the company would have a serious issue with the gc's union(s).

[surely not]

TDL, in the real world, the unions are very keen to see H & S standards upheld by the company, and in the real world they normally support management action when it is in relation to H & S because not to do so would be seen to condone poor H & S practices. Of course they will ensure that the management are not using it as an excuse to 'get rid of' a trouble maker.

If the management and unions won't stand up for H & S then this is a serious failing.

FYI I have live in the real world, and ground staff have been dismissed for such actions.

[Anti-ice]

The poor girl :ugh: - what a very sad accident , especially with 2 young kids and for her husband ..
My thoughts have been with them.

Fokker me, your post astounds me - i cannot believe you were subjected to such blatant discriminatory abuse from those staff - they deserve the sack - i hope you feel strong enough to follow it up - thats dreadful.
The fact that they then left a 2ft gap is in addition , really bad - how the hell do they keep their jobs with that behaviour?

If that happened at LHR, they'd be marched off the apron . Disgusting behaviour.
I hope your airline has a zero tolerance policy on intimidation and harassment.

[SkySista]

What a sad accident. :(

Condolences for her family, friends, and co-workers.

At the moment, we are studying Apron Safety Management Policies as part of our course. I think I will print this thread and hopefully show some of the students who think safety is a joke, just how serious things can get out there. What a shocking lack of sense some people show (the rampers previosuly mentioned abusing staff, NOT the CC concerned)

RIP :(

Sky

[hajjie]

I was operating out of ory yesterday and when the steps were put next to the L1 door there was a gap big enough for a person to get thru at the side of the handrail.
they just dont learn do they?
hope the same tragedy doesnt reoccur.

[OZcabincrew]

Deepest sympathy to all concerned.

:(

[tom de luxe]

surely not
yep, responsible unions would do as you are suggesting - and many (actually, I think, most) do!

There is, however, the "real world" of some workplaces where there is no such thing as a responsible union. In the UK, an example would probably be London Underground. And in France, it's most public service unions. Their members are never at fault for anything, and there is many a reason to go on strike. (This behaviour has led to the erroneous impression, mainly in anglo-saxon countries, that the French are always on strike. They are not - however, in some high profile industries, controlled by the state or state-owned companies, strikes are significantly more frequent than elsewhere -anywhere- in France.)
And things usually get worse when a "professional election" is coming up, a "professional election" being where employees in France vote for who, or which union, will represent them on their employer's "comité d'entreprise". The various unions will of course try to impress their "electorate" by showing off their muscle in the run-up to the vote.

And guess what's coming up in France? Mais oui, it'll soon be time to vote for the comités d'entreprise. Which is why the cabin attendant's union and two pilot unions made a joint statement today, whereby they were "shocked at how [the death of the unfortunate CA] was being used in the electoral campaign", and they also said that the accident "should not beused as grounds for industrial action".

(BTW I'm not saying that anyone should be, or shoud not be, dismissed - I am in no position to comment on the rights or wrongs of that particular and deplorable accident :( . There are procedures in place to deal with that issue. But given the seriousness of the alleged misconduct, which has led to very grave consequences, I am inclined to consider (a) temporary suspension at full pay pending investigations a reasonable decision, and (b) wildcat strikes in retailation tantamount to bullying.)

If you read French, there's an article in Libération (http://www.liberation.fr/page.php?Article=277574).

[A10 Thundybox]

This is awful deepest sympathies to that young Girl's family.

I have seen happen a couple of times heard about it lots, can't believe smeone is dead due to slack practice.

I recall seeing the FA clinging on for dear life. luckily the operator heard her screams and stopped before she fell but she was left dangling fro a few seconds.

I am amazed that there does not seem to be a procedure for checking if the steps are empty before disengaging them.


This is such an easy problem to fix, we must learn from this tragedy.

[HZ123]

The tape will not prevent this type of incident it is merely a visible warning. Clearly there is need for more training of those involved in this exercise.

[Cliff]

This is such an awful accident! My thoughts are with her 2 children and her husband.

[Maude Charlee]

If it is at all possible to say that something good has come from this tragic accident, it would be that already easyjet (as just one example) have issued an emergency safety bulletin to all it's handling agents with the details of this incident and examples of a number of others specific to their own operation, requiring all handling agents to ensure with immediate effect that processes are in place to prevent this happening again.

Clearly it is a more common problem than it ought to be, but one of the most surprising things from reading this bulletin was that in none of the instances mentioned where easyjet a/c had steps removed putting crew and pax in danger, was any safety incident report filed (presumably referring to reports from the ramp team). Some of these guys are very quick to bleat about their own safety, but clearly it's not an issue if it affects soembody else.

[sixmilehighclub]

Dreadful news. Heartfelt sympathies to her family.

So many uneccesary accidents, incidents and tragedies happen every year. These can be prevented in most cases.

BA recently reiterated their policy. Which is that cabin crew may not open, crack or close doors without steps, platform or equipment in place (even for cleaners to get bins out).
Crew may not place feet on the exterior platform whilst opening/ closing doors, both feet must stay in aircraft.
Once an external person has knocked on the door, crew must count to 10 before opening door with caution.

Unfortunately, although rules and guidelines are in place, it won't stop people doing otherwise to make life easier for themselves.

[Farrell]

There's uproar here in France over the situation. It was on the news again today. Very sad. Sympathies to family and friends.

Wayne

[fastjet2k]

My sincerest condolences to the family also... I, like many other current and former cabin crew, have seen instances where doors have been left with no warning barrier, open without steps. I myself was stood on some steps once when they were taken away after I'd gone out to get some sun. Of course, in spite of a CSR being filed, this all seemed quite funny at the time. It's scary to think of the consequences of what can happen.

Another point to note, many ground crew also forget that after placing steps against an aircraft, the a/c level will often rise significantly after passengers have left the aircraft. This can often result in a rather large step that boarding passengers have to climb up to board the aircraft. I had a situation where an elderly man boarded and shortly afterwards we spotted a trail of blood leading back from D2L to his seat in row 20. Upon investigation, we found a gap of about 2 feet between the top of the steps and the door ledge. He'd bashed his leg climbing in and burst some varicose veins - he'd not wanted to create a problem so just ignored it, we were subsequently delayed after the crew insisted than an ambulance be called to take him to hospital due to the severity of the wound and his age.

To those who think flying is unsafe, it's often more unsafe than you might think just staying on the ground. Everybody needs to be alert to what's going on, in the words of the great CAA 'Safety is no accident'........

Safe flying all,

FJ2k

[surely not]

fastjet2k, the point you make about a/c height differential with the steps as pax get on and off is a good one. Unfortunately I cannot see a ready fix for this as the steps do not have a means of automatically shadowing the fuselage in it's rise and falls. When the a/c comes onto stand it will be heavier, and it is necessary to fit the steps safely under the door and level with , or just a smidgeon below, the floor height. They cannot be higher because on most aircraft this would prevent the door being opened! Likewise for boarding they cannot be raised to door level because the fuselage will drop as the aircraft fills up, and if the steps were up higher they would snag the door again.

I guess it is something which pax have to made verbally aware of.

[CGTSN]

Very sad news :( all my thoughts to her family and colleagues.


I don't understand, aren't you supposed to communicate with the in-charge before removing the stairs and make sure everyone is on board?

I heard on the french news that the union is requesting an extra rampie to guide the driver and make sure no one is on the stairs.

I guess we will have to use extra caution with those stairs.

[fastjet2k]

Surely Not,

You're absolutely correct in what you say - it would not be particularly cost effective to have steps operating in the same way as fixed airbridges and shadowing the rise and fall of the aircraft... however, in the company I worked for as Cabin Crew, it became policy that if there was a significant gap between the steps and the doorsill, to insist that (within reason) they were raised to meet the door once again. Most of the time this was fine, on the odd occasion it was going to prove impossible and would delay the aircraft by an unacceptable period of time by waiting to have the steps raised.

It was agreed that under these circumstances, so long as passengers could board safely once aware of the step, we would continue with boarding. However, we would normally have a crewmember outside on the steps to monitor and assist passengers as they boarded. To people who have not been Cabin Crew, you may imagine that passengers would notice a fairly obvious step and would deal with it in the correct manner! However, this is not always the case - as cabin crew all you can do is to minimise the danger so that should anything actually go wrong, you have done your very best to uphold all health and safety standards. At the least, if we were unable to get the steps moved, we would still complete a CSR which may hopefully limit the number of times it would happen at that airport in the future.

Once in a while things do go wrong which we can learn from - however, (and I don't know the facts in this tragedy so I'm not suggesting this is what happened) sometimes familiarity takes over and people get hurt or worse. This is why we have safety standards, they are there because somebody has been injured or killed before making the same mistake. Ignore them not only at your own peril, but at the peril of everybody in the large team that looks after a flight.

FJ2k