Another drunken passenger...

[rotornut]

City woman's air rage quiz Feb 18 2005

By Gregg O'Keeffe, Liverpool Echo

A LIVERPOOL woman was arrested after she allegedly got drunk and attacked another woman on a flight from Dubai.

It is believed the 23-year-old had to be restrained by police officers after the Emirates flight landed at Manchester airport yesterday.

An Emirates spokeswoman said the captain of the flight, which had 278 passengers, radioed for police assistance on landing.

He was alerted to the incident by stewardesses who said the woman was shouting abuse at them, it is alleged.

The other passenger is believed to have suffered a bite wound during the incident.

Airport police boarded the flight and restrained the Liverpool woman before arresting her on suspicion of assault and being drunk on an aircraft.

The incident happened at 6.10pm after the seven-hour flight from the United Arab Emirates region.

A spokeswoman for Emirates said: "We can confirm the captain of the flight radioed police as he was taxiing on the runway after landing.

"He reported a disturbance between two female passengers and asked for assistance because of the aggressive and abusive behaviour of the passengers.

"Emirates take incidents like this very seriously and we will not tolerate anyone who causes disruption on one of our aircraft.

"We would like to apologise to any other passengers on board the flight who were distressed or upset following the incident.

"This matter is now in the hands of police."

The woman was a passenger on the Emirates Airbus A330 flight EK019, which left Dubai at 2.20pm local time (10.20am GMT).

A Greater Manchester police spokesman said: "The woman is believed to have been behaving aggressively and abusively to passengers and flight attendants before assaulting another passenger.

"She was arrested on suspicion on Section 47 assault and being drunk on an aircraft.

"She has been bailed to re-appear at the airport police station on March 9."

[fastjet2k]

I hope they throw the book at her. This kind of behaviour simply cannot be tolerated - we wouldn't allow it in the street and it certainly cannot be allowed on board aircraft. This severely endangers the safety of the aircraft as the crew then have to divert their attentions to dealing with this completely unnecessary situation, meaning that they then cannot comply with their normal required duties. It will also put added pressure on the flight crew, something which is also highly undesired and unnecessary.

The message needs to go out that this behaviour is a severe criminal offence and she should be given a good spell in a nice cell to give her a chance to think about it. This is one incident that I hope does have the journo's writing (fact based please) stories to publicise the punishment that you will get if you behave like this.

I'm off to fume in the bar now :mad: :mad: :mad:

FJ2k

[SLFguy]

I fully appreciate that these 'air rage' instances can be dangerous but I do have a small observation...

'DRUNK PASSENGER!!" stories are never ever deemed to be 'bloody tabloid sensationalism' - 'journo scum reporting' et al that is usually the subject of the 2nd or 3rd post in any thread that relates to a newspaper report that relates to someone who is POB but not SLF!

Methinks I smell a double standard...

*dons flameproof gear*

[air pig]

I was on an Emirates flight approx 4yrs ago, one passenger was in the same condition. Unfortunately for them we were going into DXB. Security removed them at DXB. On speaking to one of the cabin crew, they said that they will be going to JAIL fo TWO years the next day. Tis is not a nice prospect. The United Arab Emirates thankfully do not as we do tolerate such behaviour on board aircraft.

Pity that this line is not taken on the UK !!!!

My thoughts :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[surely not]

Sorry, it isn't clear from the quoted article, but did the incident happen after landing or in flight? Was she sober when she boarded and served so much alcohol that she became drunk during the flight; or did she drink her duty free?

Behaviour such as this is unacceptable in any environment, but how did she get to be drunk? I know that way, way back in the sands of time an airline I worked for had to reduce the amount of alcohol on board its flights coming out of a dry North African state because the crew were unhappy (felt unsafe?) telling passengers they couldn't drink any more, but it was easier to say 'sorry sir/madam the bar is empty'.

[cwatters]

Alcohol has a strange effect on a minority of people. I know someone who I would happily trust with a daughter if I had one. Then one night we went out and got legless. One moment he was fine and the next a big transformation. He became extreemly agressive towards complete strangers. Even trying to pick a fight with people who were just passing by on the other side of the road and didn't even see him coming.

The strange thing was he appeared to be in a good mood all the time he was being agressive. It's hard to convey how dramatic and strange the change was. Real life Jeckle and Hide stuff. I'm convinced he has no idea that he has this "problem" or that his behavoiur that night was in any way unacceptable.

How should society deal with someone like him?

[BahrainLad]

It's an interesting point and it's not just confined to aviation. I'm sure everyone can name a friend who turns into a t_sser when drunk.

It's a shame because I can see where it's going: either the total elimination of booze on flights, or legally forcing airlines to charge for alcohol. This will spoil it for the rest of us who like to pass the monotonous tedium of long haul flying by relaxing with a bottle of red.

[Flying Lawyer]

SLFguy
Good point - although, to be fair, it's not necessarily double standards if different people are posting.

If even reading a story likes this makes fastjet2k so hysterical and fuming, I hope he's not an airline pilot.
Air pig - rumour has it (I don't know if it's true) that some states in the UAE chop the hands off people caught stealing. Is that what you think we should do?

[OldAg84]

BahrainLad,

I agree with you- but what's the alternative- become a "registered" drinker with you favorite airline? I flown enough where I've seen some real a55hole drunks- and I won't apologize because that's the only appropriate descriptive. Fortunately, it has only presented itself as an unpleasantness, not a safety factor.

I think banning people from the airline would go some way- what's your name, here's your yellow card...do it again, fly someone else.

If it's a safety issue-prosecute them for real.

[bjcc]

OldAg84

Blacklisting has been talked about for years, trouble is thats all that seems to have happened, talk.

My experience in dealing with drunks on aircraft is it's a double edged sword. If they have got to the stage where they come to notice as stroppy, and demand more drink, they get given it, in some cases making matters worse, but in others keeping them to some extend happy, but also making them more drunk.

On the other hand probably better for them to be kept 'happy' in flight then let the Old Bill deal with it on the ground.

It suprises me that so far no one has (as far as I know) used the defence that they can't have been drunk, because the crew would not have be allowed to serve them enough to get to that state.......

It has to be said that the number of calls I used to get went up after they banned smoking on aircraft.

[BusyB]

BahrainLad,
Surely if booze is free the cabin crew have the choice discetion of whom to serve it to, if its not free surely they have to accept the money?

[back to the future]

When it comes to flying there are a few ways to look at it.

You may in the first instance, BE terrified to fly and need that bit of Dutch courage, let me tell you all, I was terrified of flying.

Then my wife bought me a trial lesson at (Bahrainlad hope your watching this) NEWCASTLE AERO CLUB and I went on to get my PPL, then I suddenly need a drink to get on a holiday flight, reason being I now know how to fly and how an aircraft works, what I now dont know is what is in the hold or even in the cabin overhead lockers.

Yes you have a minority of inebriated people going, or coming back from a sporting event in some other part of the world, they should be given a HAVERSACK told it is a Parachute, and TOSSED OFF.
:O :O

Sorry I meant thrown out.:D

[Charly]

Most writers forget that alcoholism is a sickness or even geneticaly "preprogrammed", as newest studies prove.

Sure, danger to the aircraft, have her removed right away BUT two years in jail? :ooh:

I hope that those calling for harshest punishment never come in a situation, where they did a mistake, and no one even thinks about giving them a second chance!

[Jodiekeyz]

No place on any aircraft for pax like this...lock her up and throw away the key...

:ok: :yuk:

[etrang]

I agree that people like this should probably be locked up. But rather than focusing on the punishment of offenders i think it would be mor productive to work on prevention. Given that being drunk on an aircraft is a crime and may endanger others, and that cabin crew have no way of knowing how much a pax may have drunk before boarding, i think airlines should simply stop serving alcohol in-flight.

[Memetic]

etrang

Drink driving is a crime too, however it is obvious that it's the vehicals that do the physical damage even though the alcohol (+ stupidity) is the cause, as everyday there are accidents that do not involve alcohol, would you therefore also propose a ban on cars, trucks etc?

The fact is no one forces you to drink on an aircraft. If you choose to do so to excess, then you must take the penalty. Personaly I believe that that judge in the USA a few months back had the right idea, adding a requirement to compensate the airline for diversion costs and other pax for inconvenience to the ruling, should add the policing cost too.

Knee jerk laws / rules that make the well behaved majority suffer for the misdeeds of the many are what cause contempt for the law.

[Unwell_Raptor]

I am told that there are a number of cases from LHR going through the system at the moment. These are quite common and contrary to the opinions above, prison is very likely. Unless you are a famous popstar of course, when the jury might get stars in its eyes and acquit!

[cavortingcheetah]

:uhoh:

You willl never stop alcohol or drug usage by some passengers on some flights. Nor will you stop the smokers puffing in the toilets nor pax drinking their duty free, nor even fornication and fellatio in First Class. This sort of prohibition is impossible to achieve.
I am sure that many of us have had problems with troublesome passengers. I am relieved to say that I have never had a situation arise which was not fairly controllable by either the use of either handcuffs or a very large flight engineer.
Whether as a passenger or as Flight Crew; I always carry a large Mag - Lite in my Carry On/Flight Bag. It is a real life preserver and quite legal, a little like a Linus' Blanket. In the old days in Africa, I used to carry a Colt 45 without the ivory handles, a bit tricky that, today:D

[jammydonut]

If you have seen the film "Conair"
Maybe thats the answer for special flights for football fans and drunks...

[manintheback]

Seems to be catching out of the UAE

This time a British Military Attache arrested after an Etihad flight to Heathrow

[pendulumpete]

And here is the report

"19/02/2005 - 12:18:33 PM

Drunken diplomat arrested after flight disturbance

A drunken British diplomat was arrested at London’s Heathrow Airport following a disturbance on board a flight, it was confirmed today.

Defence attaché Colonel Peter Roberts spent Thursday night in the cells after police arrested him on board a plane from Bangkok, shortly after it touched down at Heathrow.

The 50-year-old colonel, who is based in the Thai capital, has been bailed until March 3.

A Scotland Yard spokesman said: “At approximately 17.30 on Thursday February 17 Heathrow police officers boarded an inbound flight following reports of a disturbance on board.


“A 50-year-old male passenger was arrested for being drunk on an aircraft and taken to a west London police station. He was bailed on February 18 to return to a west London police station on March 3.”

A Ministry of Defence spokesman confirmed Colonel Peter Roberts was arrested and that the flight was from Bangkok.

“We cannot comment further as an investigation is underway,” he said.

It has been reported the colonel had been involved in the relief effort following the December 26 tsunami disaster which devastated parts of western Thailand. "

[bigflyingrob]

Are there any studies on the effects of low air pressure on peoples behavior after drinking alchohol? Just wondere dhow much increase in effect you get.

[rotornut]

Yes, definitely. I'm sure if you were to do a search you'd find lots of information on the effects of alcohol at altitude.

[BahrainLad]

I guess the point of charging for it is to remove the mentality of "it's free so lets take the opportunity to get plastered." Putting a financial squeeze on the passenger may restrict their drinking.

And, as far as I can remember, my local publican can refuse to serve me no matter how many 20s I wave in his face, if I appear to be inebriated.

[bealine]

To the"tolerance" and "let her off - she's made a mistake" brigade, I will paint a scenario for you!

Imagine, the person you love most is flying home. You are at the airport to meet him/her.

Unbeknownst to you, the aircraft is on its final approaches with an overweight, drunken pig sitting in an aisle seat two rows in front of the Emergency Exits - now sleeping it off and snoring loudly.

As the aircraft touches down, it slews violently off the runway with black smoke pluming from one engine. Quickly, the crew deploy the chutes and start evacuating the passengers.

The rearward passengers, and the passengers nearest the front doors are okay, but Mr Drunken Pig has effectively blocked the aisle and the flames are now consuming the wing, cutting off your loved one's escape route!

How would you feel about tolerating drunks now???

As I said in a thread concerning security, without exception, the things we do, and the rules we have to both obey and enforce, in aviation have all come about because lives have been lost!!!

I think two years in jail for endangering lives is quite lenient!

[Charly]

Hi bealine,

i absolutly agree with you concerning your scenario.

As flightcrew its my primary target to remove her/him at departure or even at a diversion airport (wouldn´t hesitate at all), or at least have him/her seated in a backrow for the reminder of the flight, even restrain him on the galley floor to guarantee the aircrafts and passengers safety.
But the drunk in an emergency row would have been a big mistake by the crew(!), same case with disabled or elderly in this row (don´t want to put them on the same level, the one chose to drink, the other one didn´t).

I am the last guy who accepts any aggression, even verbally on the plane.

As a pilot, my responsibilty ends here. What follows is my opinion as a pedestrian.

Concerning the POSTFLIGHT jurisdictional point of view, I still believe it is a BIG difference if a 50 yr old frequent flyer in First Class is the aggressor, or if it is a 23 yr old girl in Eco on one of her first long-haul flights.

Rgds Charly

[fastjet2k]

If even reading a story likes this makes fastjet2k so hysterical and fuming, I hope he's not an airline pilot.

Flying Lawyer,

Further to your comment which I have quoted above - I am actually in training to become an airline pilot and will be returning to the wonderful world of jet transport in 2006. However, I have come from a Cabin Crew background and drunken and abusive passengers was the most frustrating and nasty part of the job.

Still wondering why I fume when I read stories such as that??:mad:

[visibility3miles]

Even if it is not a danger to the pilot or the entire planeload of passengers, I wouldn't want to be the passenger sitting next to this person. It's not as if you can get off the plane mid-flight, and if the flight is full I doubt you could convince another passenger to trade seats with you in this situation.

The other passenger is believed to have suffered a bite wound during the incident.

[You splitter]

I do wonder if some of this is attirbutable to having spent some time in these 'dry' countries. Not that it is an excuse to climb inside a a bottle the minute you leave, but I do believe that a lot of people do not consider the consequences of abstaining for a period of time.

After a self enforced 'dry'period (post xmas diet! :O ) I did get embarrasingly drunk the first night out after my period off.
It snuck up so quickly that I didn't see coming in the slightest. And the amount I had drunk was compartively small compared to what my tolerance was previously. Maybe airlines need to consider this fact when operating out of the booze free countries. :ok:

[CRAZYBROADSWORD]

You guys get it soo easy imagine you are in a heli coming out of Ascot or newmarket races with your 4 pax who are all pissed out of their heads, and having to fly IFR back to base with nothing between you are your drunk passengers at least you get a cabin door to protect you.

[Piltdown Man]

Take a hike etrang! I like having a drink when I'm flying. If a small percentage of people can't handle drink lock them up and make sure that these people never, ever fly again. Don't penalise me. The vast majority of Cabin Crew I know don't serve poeple who they believe MAY have had too much, and serve NONE to those that they know have had too much. And it's these latter ones who are the problem. These people load up in the airports before flight. So etrang, if you want to get rid if the problem, get rid if the booze before flight by banning booze in terminals, airports, pubs and bars, hotels, supermarkets etc. near airports etc... Your suggestion is one worthy of a politician.

[fastjet2k]

What etrang has suggested has been suggested to airlines in the past, we actually had a long discussion about it when I was Cabin Crew. As is fairly obvious, banning inflight alcohol was never going to be an option and we, like every other airline, would never even consider doing that. The reasons for this are fairly simple - number one, why penalise the 99.9% of people who behave normally and enjoy themselves, just so that the 0.1% who don't can misbehave and blame something else for their misbehaviour? Number two, if alcohol is banned inflight, passengers will probably drink more in the terminal beforehand and be far more likely to carry their own alcohol onto the aircraft which they will then drink when the crew aren't looking. This means that the crew can no longer monitor the alcohol consumption of these passengers, promoting a possibly worse situation than we had before...

Educating passengers on the danger of over-drinking inflight has also been mulled over, but it's difficult to see how anybody could do any more than has already been done. While it's horrible to be crew on a flight where you have a drunken and disruptive passenger, you just have to accept that if you carry human's on flights for a living, you will have to deal with this sort of situation from time to time. It is a pain in the a**e and very unpleasant for everybody involved, but I fail to see a better and realistic solution to the problem.

Final comment... Piltdown man - you are quite correct by mentioning that the crew will be very aware who is served alcohol and who is not, it's not a god given right for a passenger to be served and it is entirely at the crew's discretion if they choose not to serve them and can justify that decision. I agree that you shouldn't lose out because one idiot has one/ten too many.

Crazybroadsword, Cabin Crew do NOT get a cabin door to protect them, they get a curtain at the very most. However, assuming people do their jobs right, passengers will not be 'pissed' when they board the flight in the first place, as a result the crew can remain in control of the situation. The Captain has the ultimate say in who boards that flight and, regardless of whether he has a flight deck door to protect him or not, that passenger will not be allowed to board. If it does go wrong in flight, you can't even go and talk to the passenger to try and solve it, you have to make your decision on the correct course of action by analysing the information provided to you by the cabin crew, who are sadly having to take the brunt of it behind you. It ain't as easy as you make it sound...

That's my thoughts on the matter anyway... safe drinking/flying all...

FJ2k

[bealine]

assuming people do their jobs right, passengers will not be 'pissed' when they board the flight in the first place

Sheer utopia, old boy! How long do you think we (ground staff) get to assess a passenger at the boarding gate these days ? Two seconds, perhaps five at the very, very most.

.......and the airlines are trying to make as many passengers as possible On-Line Check In, Self Service check-in or "Night Before" check-in that no aitline staff actually see anyone before they reach the gate!!!

Safe? Secure? Dream On!!!

This is why the courts need to be especially tough with offenders!

[fastjet2k]

That's funny, it always seemed to work like that until I finished flying a couple of months ago?? Maybe it's changed since then... More to the point, at what point did I say that 'assuming the check-in and boarding staff do their jobs right'? Everybody who works in the airport is responsible for safety and security and passengers have often been caught out by being seen staggering towards the aircraft. Some check-in staff put comments in to have the pax checked at the gate if they believe they have been drinking (at least I did when I was ground staff in common with my colleagues) and the boarding team could often smell it too. Let's also not forget that the passenger has to pass through security en-route the the aircraft and can also be spotted there.

If all that fails, have you ever seen how close the cabin crew get to the passengers when they board an aircraft?! Alcohol is a pretty strong smell and passengers under the influence can fairly easily be detected here. Either way, the system tends to work although I do agree that as ground staff you do not get enough time to assess as perhaps you may in the past. I'm not suggesting it's the airline's agents who are solely responsible, but if everybody is aware (as they usually are) the problem can often be solved before the aircraft doors are closed.

FJ2k